Topic: SFB Gurus: Lyran CVA?

[DH123]

Did the Lyrans ever build a CVA?   I'm rummaging through my SSDs and cannot find one for it.  

[DH123]

Found it in R5:Battleships.   Of all places?    

[Toten]

DH,

I think with some checking everyone made pretty much everything.  If not make one up.  The C8Vk would be a fair comparison for whtat gets stripped to put the fighters on it.  

[FireSoul]

Quote:
Found it in R5:Battleships.   Of all places?    

The description for the L-CVA marks it as conjectural. One was never built.

[DH123]

Quote:

Quote:
Found it in R5:Battleships.   Of all places?    

The description for the L-CVA marks it as conjectural. One was never built.  

Since when has that stopped use D2ers?

Conjectual?    

[Magnum357]

Indeed!  I never could understand why TFG were affraid of making "Conjectural" designs offical?  Was it due too Gameplay Balance issues or due too the fact they might have had to rewrite some SFB history which means higher chance of rule conflicts?

[jimmi7769]

Quote:
Indeed!  I never could understand why TFG were affraid of making "Conjectural" designs offical?  Was it due too Gameplay Balance issues or due too the fact they might have had to rewrite some SFB history which means higher chance of rule conflicts?  

I'd say it was all for game historical purposes.  They never intended people not to use the ships they made conjectural in their local campaigns, they just would never include them in any historical data or scenarios.  

[NannerSlug]

some of my favorite ships are conjectual. the fed BB, the KCR, the Fed DNH, etc.. etc..

(fed pfs are conjectual too from what i understand)

[Rod O'neal]

It was for historical purposes, from what I understand. They had them available for player's campaigns. Lots of people complained that without competitive ships that certain races couldn't compete on level footing. Besides, it's cool to be able to fly all the designs regardless of what race you prefered.

There are lots of ships in SFC that are conjectural. Some have already been mentioned. The Klingon B10 is the only BB that's not and it wasn't completed until 2286, IIRC. Well after the date (about 20yrs) that the BBs are introduced in SFC. There were also very few of some of the Capitol ships ever produced. Only 3 Fed CVAs and 1 SCS. The SCS was also in 2286, or so.  

[Magnum357]

That was one thing that I couldn't understand also.  In SFB, their are really not all that many ships in the entire known region of the Galaxy.  I mean, Capitol ships where few and far between and so where Crusiers.  Wasn't an F&E Hex something like 500 Parcecs in Diameter?  That just seem like waaaaay too large of an are of space for this time period.  Even are Max Warp (which is like Warp 7 or 8 in TNG scale) it would take years still too even reach the Neutral Zones.  

Don't get me wrong, I always have and always will like SFB, but wouldn't it be a little more logical (maybe even more realistic) if they made each F&E Hex more like 10 or 20 Light years or something?  At least with such smaller areas of space you are dealing with (at least in Galactic terms) the low number of ships would have made a little better sense.

[DH123]

Quote:
some of my favorite ships are conjectual. the fed BB, the KCR, the Fed DNH, etc.. etc..

(fed pfs are conjectual too from what i understand)  

Were the Heavy Dreads (F-DNH, K-C10K) conjectual?  I do not have those SSDs.  

[jimmi7769]

Quote:

Quote:
some of my favorite ships are conjectual. the fed BB, the KCR, the Fed DNH, etc.. etc..

(fed pfs are conjectual too from what i understand)  

Were the Heavy Dreads (F-DNH, K-C10K) conjectual?  I do not have those SSDs.  

No, they were production.  They were in R7.

[Lepton1]

Quote:
That was one thing that I couldn't understand also.  In SFB, their are really not all that many ships in the entire known region of the Galaxy.  I mean, Capitol ships where few and far between and so where Crusiers.  Wasn't an F&E Hex something like 500 Parcecs in Diameter?  That just seem like waaaaay too large of an are of space for this time period.  Even are Max Warp (which is like Warp 7 or 8 in TNG scale) it would take years still too even reach the Neutral Zones.  

Don't get me wrong, I always have and always will like SFB, but wouldn't it be a little more logical (maybe even more realistic) if they made each F&E Hex more like 10 or 20 Light years or something?  At least with such smaller areas of space you are dealing with (at least in Galactic terms) the low number of ships would have made a little better sense.  

F&E says each hex has an AREA of 500 parsecs. The wording is poor so it looks like they mean diameter but that would be ridiculous.  Here's why.  The Milky Way is about 150,000 light years across or 46,012 parsecs.  If each hex were 500 parsecs across, the whole galaxy could be represented by just 92 hexes in diameter and I think there are less than half  that on the F&E map and it's only meant to represent a portion of the galaxy.  

If we assume they mean 500 parsecs in area and if we just assume a square, one of the sides would be about 22 parsecs across or about 73 light years.  At TOS warp 8, that would take about 52 days to traverse.  Still quite awhile.

Distance of Earth from Romulan Neutral Zone: 132.111 ly.  At TOS Warp 8, it takes about 94 days.

These are the resources I used:

 Star Trek Distances

 Warp Speed Calculator

Of course now that I think about it that would mean that Earth would only be about 2 hexes away from the Neutral Zone, which I dont think is the case either so the F&E hexes must be smaller than 22 parsecs.  Actually the 10 to 20 ly range you suggest might be just right.

[Magnum357]

Ah, I see!  I didn't know that they meant AREA.  I thought they were saying Diameter of a F&E hex which just didn't make any sense too me.  but you may be right that the actual distance has too be much shorter for the diameter of a F&E Hex.  Heck, and we are not even considering 3 Dimensions in all this.  The Milky Way does have some thickness (even at the edges of the Galaxy) and even though it is a fairly small percentage, I bet that 500 Area of Parsecs is probaby acounting for Y-Axis area as well.  

And I agree aswell about the Parcecs.  Although 22 Parcecs does make a lot better sense then 500 for diameter, I bet each Hex is actually more like 10 Parcecs in diameter.  That would make Travel within the Federation much more practical.  

Oh, and thanks for the link to the  Warp Calculator.  Very useful tool.  

[Magnum357]

Actually, I just calculated that a Box Area (Length, Width, Height) of a cube that was 500 Parsecs in Area would mean that each side of the Cube would be roughly 8 Parsecs in length.  If this is true, then each Strategic Hex in F&E/SFC must be more like 35 to 40 (20 would be ideal) Light years across Max!  This makes much better sense for not only simple travel within Empires, but also makes sense when talking about early SFB wars.  Like for example, the Fed-Romulan war was in Y40 to 46.  Although the Original SFB Manual indicates that these warships used Sublight Engines, we all know here that this is just not feasable.  I bet that these early warships must have been equiped with some type of Early Warp Engines much like we see on Enterprise where their top speed is something like Warp 4 or Warp 5 in TNG scale.  Since the Fed-Rom War lasted like 6 years with lots of losses, I can't imagine the Hex's being any larger then 40 lightyears.  

If people think F&E/SFC Strategic Hexes actually represent 500 Parsecs in Diameter, then they are freaken loons!  It must be more like 35 or 40 Light years or something.  

[mathcubeguy]

Area is 2D though. Volume is 3D.

[Magnum357]

Not if you are talking about "Cubic Area".  Etheir way, you know what I mean.  

[Lepton1]

I'm surprised that ADB hasn't changed that as the general rules have gone under some revision in the past few years.  If they can add all those sub-rules, surely they can check their arithmetic, as it were.  I would have thought someone would have pointed out the problem to them some time ago.

[Magnum357]

Ya, but I think someone did in a Captains Log once.  I can't remember what issue, but I recall that in one of the issues, someone discussed why a Fighter/PF couldn't move move beyond 1 hex distance (or was it that they were contained in the same Hex?  Can't remember).  ADB explained that each Hex was 500 Parsecs and that it would be too much space for a Fighter or PF too transverse with their limited Speed and Fuel Supply.  But if I recall, ADB never did explain clearly in that Captains Log if a Hex was 500 parsecs in Diameter or Cubic Area.  After going through the numbers and comparing with Warp Speed calculations, I just can not except that Each F&E/SFC hex is any larger then 40 Light Years across.  

[RazalYllib]

This FnE vet chimes in--

Yes Virginia, Federation and Empire Hexes are 500 parsec from point to point on the Hex Map.

Each Turn in FnE a ship could move 6 hexes max in a 6 month time period 1 hex per month.

If memory serves, my buddy who introduced me to SFB many long years ago, made a written inquiry to ADB,
they never responded.

I received a nice letter from Steven Cole once on my term paper submission.
He would have printed it but it was not in the correct format, he also said the 'tactic' would
only work if the Fed was stupid.

It referanced a fleet engagement, Rom vs Fed.  Big BPV, human players and a Neutral Ref.
Fed build around a CVA group.
Rom had forces built around RegalHawk and a single PF tender, they had a Falcon though.

Fed Player decides to Launch Fighters, Fighters release Drones, Fighters Rearm, repeat. Basically Drone platform.

Any way several ships started cloaked, including the Falcon, Flying backwards.
Was able to work may way close to CVA with the Cloaked Falcon and SpHa's, SkyHa's, stock.
Lost a couple on the way in though, but was able to manuver so the mauler was right in front of the CVA a couple of hexes, flying in reverse pointed straight at the CVA (with all the Fighters in the same space). I droped an NSM (gave the Ref the hex number, moved a couple hexes and uncloaked.

I used the Batteries to absorb the Fed Crunch and Lived,  the Fed moved into NSM, which killed the Fighters and dented the Forward Shield.  This was at the end of the Turn also.
Next Turn I charged Batteries and Mauled the CVA.  
Needless to say the Feds were quite upset,  but it worked.

Back to Topic:

Yes, Lyran experimented with Carriers, until the fateful day when the Captain was too quick to activate the ESG catching his own fighters in the ESG.  If my synapses are firing correctly, I belive they used Klingon Fighters.