Topic: Review: Return Of The King (Yeah, there are spoilers, deal with it)  (Read 7944 times)

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KATChuutRitt

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Re: Review: Return Of The King (Yeah, there are spoilers, deal with it)
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2003, 04:37:56 am »
Rohan is the country that Theoden rules JM.

I agree with most of the assessment made above.  Would like to add a few comments:

The Good:

The fight scence with the Oliphants was Great!!!!  And I loved Gimli's comment of "It still only counts as one", continuing their contest from Helm's Deep.

The Scene where Aragorn commands Allegiance from the Dead was great, although I wondered about the absense of the other rangers esp the sons of Elrond who accompaied him.  

The moments of Hobbitness exhibited by Merry and Pippin dancing in Edoras, and later after their return to the shire really came off well.

The Ride of the Rohan was incredible, the effects acting, etc.  My only fault with this was that the army of Sauron seemed a little too prepared for them as they charged, I envisioned more of a panic and surprise, facilitated by the Pukel men.  I also missed Theoden engaging with the Red Serpent who I had seen as a meeting of two Cavalry forces.  Yet the Red Serpent design on the Oliphants made their substitution clear, and it was well done, yet I still longed to see Theoden best an enemy King in personal combat riding far in advance of his troops.

The scenes with Arwen that were not in the book at all were incredibly moving, a well done alteration here.

The Bad:

Denethor as stated above

No mention made of the relationship between Faramir and Eowyn.  He is near death and she is heartbroken over Aragorn, then suddenly they are side by side healthy and smiling as Arwen and Aragorn are reunited.

The retreat of the rangers of Ilthein under Faramir even before the Ringwraiths actually appear, and he appearing shot up by arrows instead of a victim of the Black Breath of the Nazgul didn't make the final defeat of the Witch King as awe inspiring as it could have been.  It also made the appearance of Aragorn as a healer and loremaster unneeded.  An aspect of the King of Gondor that needed more work throughout all 3 films.

The time distance relationship near the end of the movie.  When they keep flipping back and forth between Frodo and Sam headed up the mountain and the fight outside the gates of Mordor, it seemed to me that Sam and Frodo had far too much of a travel and climb to get there in time.  Yet our noble hobbits seemed to make an ascent quick enough to  make a comic book hero with super powers proud.

The arrival of the troops from other parts of Gondor was something else I missed, the mounting despair as each contigent is far smaller than expected.  The absence of the Prince of Dol Amroth and Beregrond was also notable.

The exclusion of the power of the Voice of Sauroman, and Aragorns revealing himself, and Gandolf confronting the Witch King at the Gate, were also disappointing.

Worst of all perhaps was the defeat of Sauron at Pelenor Fields at the hands of the Host of the Dead, who never should have been there anyhow, taking away from the nobility of the defenders of Gondor and the Riders of Rohan.  It cheapened what had been a most awesome epic battle until their arrival.


The Ugly

This is what I think could have been done to allow for many scenes that were left out due to time constraints.

Exclusion of the fight scene with the Worg riders in The two Towers, it wasn't in the books and really served no purpose.  Elimination of Frodo's fight scene with Gollum after escaping the web and Shelob the first time.  Elimination of the scene where Pippin is singing as Faramirs rangers are charging, replacing it with the brave rearguard action as they retreat as in the books.  Also eliminate much of the fight scenes at the river from  the Return of the King and the eariler one at Osgiliath in The Two Towers.

With a little better management I think at least some things could have been included that were lost.



Now I did enjoy the movie thouroughy, and I think Jackson did a good job, but I think it could have been even better.  Hopefully an uncut version on DVD will include many things left out at the theather.
 

Kortez

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Re: Review: Return Of The King (Yeah, there are spoilers, deal with it)
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2003, 06:42:03 am »
Did you all see Gondor when Aragorn is formally crowned?  It didn't look like it needed rebuilding to me.  I thought it must have been Borg, and that it had healed itself.   I need to see that again and judge whether first impressions were accurate.

Every scene which was added that was not in the book detracted IMO, EXCEPT the Arwen material.  They changed the story, and I wonder if Tolkien's son had anything to do with that, and in so changing left things out which would have made an impact.  I couldhave screamed in the Battle of the Pellenor Fieids, Faramir was so short-changed that it totally removed the truthful power of his character, Gandalf never met the witch-king at all, which made no sense at all, the lembas scene was utterly idiotic, and obviously not Tolkien, the handling of Samwise once he decided he was going to rescue Frodo was a joke, designed more like a typical slash job I'd except in forumlaic theater, and they changed the palantir interaction so much they ruined it (as I mention infra).

When the heroes and their rag-tag band confront Sauron after Gondor has been spared, pending the destruction of the ring, they did not transmit the desperation of it  properly.  Gandalf and Aragorn are trying to make it look like THEY have the ring.  THAT is why Sauron turns his attention, incorrectly towards them, instead of searching for two starving wretched hobbits, struggling with all they have to crawl to Mount Doom and to drop the ring into the forge in which it was made.

Frodo did not appear the hero he truly was, either.  That is a shame.  You'd think he and Samwise would have had at least a horrible sunburn after the ring is unmade, but I guess they wore their SPF 10000 sunblock.

I understand the breaking of Saruman's staff is in the extended version.
 

Scott Allen Abfalter

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Re: Review: Return Of The King (Yeah, there are spoilers, deal with it)
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2003, 08:26:32 am »
Quote:

You know what bothered me, and bothered me, and bothered me throughout these 3 movies? It seemed that even though Frodo is supposedly the hero/main character it is Sam who has all the arc and growth. The only other character to come close in the movie version is the ranger/king.

Did you get at all through the 3 films?

Best,
Jerry  





Re-read the books.  In them, Frodo starts off as the main viewpoint character but as the story progresses Tolkien gets more interested in writing about Aragorn.  IMHO.  

I, for one, was absolutely enthralled by the movie.  I've read the books dozens of times over and they are dear to my heart.  I know that there are differences, but I didn't care at all.  The movie was beautiful.  

 

Alidar Jarok

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Re: Review: Return Of The King (Yeah, there are spoilers, deal with it)
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2003, 08:19:05 pm »
I thought the movie was great.  I knew the Saruman scenes wouldn't be in, so I wasn't shocked (also, after 3 hours, I just wanted the movie to end).

Since its been awhile since I read the book, I missed most of the complaints written in this thread.  I felt the lack of mentioning that the Palantyr (or however you spell it) belonging to the steward of Gondor (I'm not good with names ) was wierd.  I'm really shocked about Gandalf not fighting the Witch King (which I thought was one of the coolest moments in the book).

I like the progression of the battle a lot more than Helm's Deep (in that one, after the first few minutes, the amount of foolish stuff the heroes did without getting killed began to get annoying).  In this battle, it seemed a bit more natural.  The tension and emotion didn't seem to be as much as it was in the book.  Nobody seemed that sickened by the heads being launched at them, for starters.  Also, when the Riders of Rohan arrived, I thought it was really cool, but I didn't feel the ships arriving felt as good (I remember in the book it felt like all was lost, even though Rohan came, enemy reenforcements ment they were overwhelmed).  It didn't really feel like that (maybe it was a timing thing, I don't know).  

Anyway, I think that overall, I think the battle was much better.  (The Elephants were really cool )

I liked the movie, and I'm hoping most of the stuff that was cut out is in the extended version.  I guess I'll have to re-read the book to remember what I missed  

Sirgod

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Re: Review: Return Of The King (Yeah, there are spoilers, deal with it)
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2003, 09:26:22 pm »
Well, I also so It tonight, and I have to Admit the Best line that's not in the Book Is when Gimli simply states... "It still counts as One"

I about lost It.

I did have a hard time though after legolas Said anything, to not mutter under My Breath "Mr. Anderson."

Stephen

Zenister

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Re: Review: Return Of The King (Yeah, there are spoilers, deal with it)
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2003, 02:20:54 am »
Legolas?

i know what you mean though...

ChAotiCIllusion

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Re: Review: Return Of The King (Yeah, there are spoilers, deal with it)
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2003, 06:15:19 am »
Quote:

Well, I also so It tonight, and I have to Admit the Best line that's not in the Book Is when Gimli simply states... "It still counts as One"

I about lost It.

I did have a hard time though after legolas Said anything, to not mutter under My Breath "Mr. Anderson."

Stephen  




Elrond and we were doing exactly the same thing. Hugo weaving has dne well to get in the 2 big trilogies of recent years though.

Kortez

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Re: Review: Return Of The King (Yeah, there are spoilers, deal with it)
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2003, 12:02:42 pm »
I think Stephen should write 500 times Elrond, not Legolas, is Agent Smith , in the "Matrix" trilogy.

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Kortez »