Topic: Would you buy Taldren Stock? (Read 7892 times)

J'inn · « **on:** February 17, 2003, 03:40:08 pm »

Would You Buy Taldren Stock? Private Issue of course
I'd buy some.
Nope.
I would if I could but I'm broke.

J'inn · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2003, 03:41:05 pm »

Assuming of course that it is cheap. Let's say $5.00 a share.

Sorok · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:39:48 pm »

For those of you who voted yes, please send your money to me since you seem willing to throw your money away.

RogueJedi_XC · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:40:23 pm »

I'd buy their stock, if I had money. But, not because I like Taldren. All of their games to date have been profitable, and if their quality holds up, I think most of their future games should be, also.

Buying stock in a company just 'cause you like 'em personally or any other reason not based on performance/profitability is the quick road to bankruptcy.

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:52:31 pm »

The problem with that is that the games have been profitable, but for whom? Taldren claims to have lost money, $300,000 on SFC3. I've kind of lost track, but it seems like they said they didn't make much, if any money, on some of the previous ones either. So, is it wise to invest money in a company that appears to lose money with each project? The projects are making money for someone, that's for sure. That's probably what's behind Erik's poll about self publishing and the whole MMOPG thing. I'd probably want to know a little more about the financial history of the company before I went off and tossed in the lifes savings.

RogueJedi_XC · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2003, 06:04:17 pm »

True enough. The games have been more profitable for Interplay and Activision than Taldren. However, I went with the assumption that if Taldren was offering stock they would be publishing their own games. Going on that, if Taldren had published SFC 1, 2, OP, and TNG on their own, their profit performance would be amazing. Since J'inn didn't really specify anything other than "would you?", I took license with what conditions would exist if Taldren stock were being sold. I just didn't bother to say that.

Tantalus · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2003, 06:17:18 pm »

If the idea became a viable reality count me in.

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2003, 07:21:10 pm »

If I had enough money I would buy the company (one day eh), I like there products and would like to guide the company in the direction I see fit (hence becoming a majour share holder). Thats a personal preference, I hope there is always a company around that is going to be able to give me a good fill of Trek.

Kroma_BaSyl · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2003, 08:51:03 pm »

Quote:

Assuming of course that it is cheap. Let's say $5.00 a share.

J'inn leave the Marks alone. You are truely shameless.

FPF_TraceyG · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2003, 03:18:22 am »

This is a similar problem to that in the music industry. An artist or musician doesnt have the resources or capital to publish their own work, so they must rely on a publishing company that has already made the capital investment and has the infrastructure in place to do so. All too often this leads to profitable contracts for the publisher (because they essentially have a monopoly over the artist) and a raw deal for the artist themselves, if they can find a publisher at all.

Here's a piece of useless trivia for you. Back in 1973, a young unknown musician (quite talented) was working in a music recording studio doing some of his own work. His name was Mike Oldfield. The owner of the studio, liking his work, allowed him to use the studio in free time to put together a recording over 12 months. It was, at the time, a concept album, quite different to anything done before. Mike Oldfield recorded the entire album on his own, playing every musical instrument himself, and the music score was completely original. He then took his album to every music publishing company and was knocked back at every door. The owner of the recording studio became so annoyed at this, that he decided to put up the capital to create his own publishing company, just so that Mike Oldfield could get his album out.

That album was called Tubular Bells and went on to become one of the greatest classics of the 70s and is still making money today. The owner of the studio was a young Richard Bramford (speling??) and the label to which he created was called Virgin Records.

The rest is history.....

(For those of you not familiar with Virgin Records, it is now one of the largest multi-national recording companies in the industry and has now expanded to into other areas, including an airline company, Virgin Blue.)

Self-publishing is definately the way to go, IMHO.

Blyre · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2003, 06:51:56 pm »

I would support Taldren if they were publicly traded.

Blyre

Scipio_66 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2003, 09:20:59 pm »

Yes I'd invest a few thousand USD, with an explanation.

I'd never buy stock in a small game company as an investment. Sorry, but I have no faith in the industry. I find it far too unstable.

HOWEVER, if I knew that Taldren was working on another SFB-based wargame -- with the improved dynaverse features I'd like to see -- I would willing to "invest" a couple thousand dollars via stocks, private checks, whatever. I would do this so that I could later pay full retail on a new SFB-based computer game. This is a key fact about most SFB fans: we tend to be in our prime earning years, and have a demonstrated record of continually spending money for decades in order to keep up with our favorite game. (Our wives/girlfriends call this "the stupid factor")

Historical Point: This sort of fan investment has happened in the SFB world before. Long ago, SFB was continually making money but TFG (the publisher) was going belly-up. Fans of SFB stepped in a bought the publisher so that their favorite game could continue to be made.

Unfortunately, the new ownership of TFG didn't do much better than the prvious owners. SFB continued to be their only cash cow and hus the publisher pretty much folded. SFB is now owned by its creator, and now again proves profitable with his design house acting as its own publisher.

Results of this poll should prove interesting. How many people (like myself) would be willing to invest if they knew the game they wanted was being produced? I still love and play EAW. I'm still eager to see GAW with a more developed dynaverse. ("My" copy of SFC3 still sits on the store shelf) I still have disposable income I could invest on a whim.

-S'Cipio

AlphaMeridian · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2003, 09:48:32 pm »

Not without seeing a couple of things first:

1) Fiancial statements - Hard numbers (which they'd have to release before going public anyway) which puts on paper what they spend, what they owe, how much they make and/or how much they run in deficit.

2) Future projects - They've got SFC 3 and they've got Black 9. What next?

3) General appeal - They've got the niche ST market. However, a niche does not nesscarily make one a good company. I'd like to see coupled with the anser to #2, how they plan to break out of the ST market w/r/t future projects (things like Black9) and get into mass market appeal. If this means trading things like complexity for a slight learning curve, then do it. If a game is like 'perfect', but only 10 people want to buy it, you lose as a company.

4) The sfc3 patch! (okay, this one is a joke

)

5) How they intend to get other investors out of the gaming market who don't know about them to get to invest. In essense, I'd like for people looking for companies to look over taldren's numbers and mission statements and future projects to say, "Hmm. I'm not a gamer, but this company has vision. I think i'll put a bit of money into them".

-Alpha

Ducttapewonder · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2003, 10:26:24 pm »

bump

Erik Bethke · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:59:13 am »

Thanks guys... cool thread.

We are currently product-financed through publishers and when times get lean we invest our own money back into (management and employees to a lessor degree) Taldren.

A developer as a publically traded company is basically a bad idea. Developers sell milestones to publishers. Developers generally have 1 to 2; maybe 3 or 4 customers at a time.

You folks are not our customers in the financial sense. Spiritual sense, yes. But not the financials. Generally speaking you do not want to invest in that kind of company.

We are looking to transition from being a developer to becoming a developer/publisher.

Much more is going on below the surface than is appropriate to share in a public forum; however we have several different strong business developments of various time-lines that will get us there.

We have boot-strapped ourselves to get here and we have run for 3+ years without any outside investors our outside debt. This is an amazing accomplishment for a start-up. Most start-ups borrow money to get started. And many run in the red for a number of years before the turn a profit I am sure we could all name dozens.

We manage ourselves well fiscally.

(Little note: the price of the share does not have anything to do with the stock being "expensive" or cheap. For example if I offered Taldren stock for $5 a share and there was only 20,000 shares issued - then you should snap them up instantly for we have cash assets that well exceed that. However if I offered you shares of Taldren at 0.5 a penny and we issued 100 billion shares then the company would be far too expensive.)

-Erik

Demandred · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2003, 11:13:09 am »

I might if I wasn't a poor student.

On the publisher issue, the increasing use of broadband internet connections means that it may now be feasible to release a game entirely online and have it sell just as well as any game in a shop. This is the real reason the likes of the RIAA is throwing a screaming fit about music being available online, the internet will break their monopoly. All it will take is one major artist deciding to sell their music electronically at a price cheaper than CDs.

Marauth · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2003, 12:16:29 pm »

maybe if I weren't broke it'd be something for a ibt of fun - not a big investment, but as they say it's a bad idea to invest in a developer, maybe once they become a publisher aswell.

Oh and I think you'll find the guys name is Richard Branson, the guy who makes a complete ass of himself trying to fly round the world in a hot air balloon, and then failing.

J'inn · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2003, 12:26:37 pm »

Well it's decided then. Glad to hear it.

I'll forward my contract proposal to Taldren soon for setting up a nice IPO deal. I've never done an IPO before but hey how hard could it be? All those regulations aren't very important any ways.

I think Taldren will find my fee very fair. Especially since I cut it in return for some other deals. Such as:

1) J'inn being the sole authorized broker for Taldren stock. A very fair 5% transaction fee will be charged on all sales, purchases, and whatever.

2) J'inn getting a nice 5% cut off the "backside" of the deal on all stock sales from Taldren.

Please mail all inquires to:

KAT J'inn
c/o
First National Bank of Nepal
Numbered and Secret Accounts Unit
P.O. Box 4657
Grand Cayman Island

Oh this is going to work out just great!! I'm so happy I can help out.

Hale · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2003, 12:45:55 pm »

I've never sold a stock short before, but I'd seriously consider doing so if Taldren goes public. Especially if they publish their own games.

ChamadaIV · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2003, 11:03:15 pm »

It's good to see Erik giving publishing some consideration. It's a very risky thing to do, but I truly wish Taldren well should they embark on such an endeavour. Look forward to the future! (and Black9 of course ;-)

J'inn · « **Reply #25 on:** February 17, 2003, 03:40:08 pm »

J'inn · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2003, 03:41:05 pm »

Assuming of course that it is cheap. Let's say $5.00 a share.

Sorok · « **Reply #27 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:39:48 pm »

For those of you who voted yes, please send your money to me since you seem willing to throw your money away.

RogueJedi_XC · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:40:23 pm »

I'd buy their stock, if I had money. But, not because I like Taldren. All of their games to date have been profitable, and if their quality holds up, I think most of their future games should be, also.

Buying stock in a company just 'cause you like 'em personally or any other reason not based on performance/profitability is the quick road to bankruptcy.

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:52:31 pm »

The problem with that is that the games have been profitable, but for whom? Taldren claims to have lost money, $300,000 on SFC3. I've kind of lost track, but it seems like they said they didn't make much, if any money, on some of the previous ones either. So, is it wise to invest money in a company that appears to lose money with each project? The projects are making money for someone, that's for sure. That's probably what's behind Erik's poll about self publishing and the whole MMOPG thing. I'd probably want to know a little more about the financial history of the company before I went off and tossed in the lifes savings.

RogueJedi_XC · « **Reply #30 on:** February 17, 2003, 06:04:17 pm »

True enough. The games have been more profitable for Interplay and Activision than Taldren. However, I went with the assumption that if Taldren was offering stock they would be publishing their own games. Going on that, if Taldren had published SFC 1, 2, OP, and TNG on their own, their profit performance would be amazing. Since J'inn didn't really specify anything other than "would you?", I took license with what conditions would exist if Taldren stock were being sold. I just didn't bother to say that.

Tantalus · « **Reply #31 on:** February 17, 2003, 06:17:18 pm »

If the idea became a viable reality count me in.

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #32 on:** February 17, 2003, 07:21:10 pm »

If I had enough money I would buy the company (one day eh), I like there products and would like to guide the company in the direction I see fit (hence becoming a majour share holder). Thats a personal preference, I hope there is always a company around that is going to be able to give me a good fill of Trek.

FPF_TraceyG · « **Reply #35 on:** February 18, 2003, 03:18:22 am »

This is a similar problem to that in the music industry. An artist or musician doesnt have the resources or capital to publish their own work, so they must rely on a publishing company that has already made the capital investment and has the infrastructure in place to do so. All too often this leads to profitable contracts for the publisher (because they essentially have a monopoly over the artist) and a raw deal for the artist themselves, if they can find a publisher at all.

Here's a piece of useless trivia for you. Back in 1973, a young unknown musician (quite talented) was working in a music recording studio doing some of his own work. His name was Mike Oldfield. The owner of the studio, liking his work, allowed him to use the studio in free time to put together a recording over 12 months. It was, at the time, a concept album, quite different to anything done before. Mike Oldfield recorded the entire album on his own, playing every musical instrument himself, and the music score was completely original. He then took his album to every music publishing company and was knocked back at every door. The owner of the recording studio became so annoyed at this, that he decided to put up the capital to create his own publishing company, just so that Mike Oldfield could get his album out.

That album was called Tubular Bells and went on to become one of the greatest classics of the 70s and is still making money today. The owner of the studio was a young Richard Bramford (speling??) and the label to which he created was called Virgin Records.

The rest is history.....

(For those of you not familiar with Virgin Records, it is now one of the largest multi-national recording companies in the industry and has now expanded to into other areas, including an airline company, Virgin Blue.)

Self-publishing is definately the way to go, IMHO.

Blyre · « **Reply #36 on:** February 18, 2003, 06:51:56 pm »

I would support Taldren if they were publicly traded.

Blyre

Scipio_66 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 18, 2003, 09:20:59 pm »

Yes I'd invest a few thousand USD, with an explanation.

I'd never buy stock in a small game company as an investment. Sorry, but I have no faith in the industry. I find it far too unstable.

HOWEVER, if I knew that Taldren was working on another SFB-based wargame -- with the improved dynaverse features I'd like to see -- I would willing to "invest" a couple thousand dollars via stocks, private checks, whatever. I would do this so that I could later pay full retail on a new SFB-based computer game. This is a key fact about most SFB fans: we tend to be in our prime earning years, and have a demonstrated record of continually spending money for decades in order to keep up with our favorite game. (Our wives/girlfriends call this "the stupid factor")

Historical Point: This sort of fan investment has happened in the SFB world before. Long ago, SFB was continually making money but TFG (the publisher) was going belly-up. Fans of SFB stepped in a bought the publisher so that their favorite game could continue to be made.

Unfortunately, the new ownership of TFG didn't do much better than the prvious owners. SFB continued to be their only cash cow and hus the publisher pretty much folded. SFB is now owned by its creator, and now again proves profitable with his design house acting as its own publisher.

Results of this poll should prove interesting. How many people (like myself) would be willing to invest if they knew the game they wanted was being produced? I still love and play EAW. I'm still eager to see GAW with a more developed dynaverse. ("My" copy of SFC3 still sits on the store shelf) I still have disposable income I could invest on a whim.

-S'Cipio

AlphaMeridian · « **Reply #41 on:** February 18, 2003, 09:48:32 pm »

Not without seeing a couple of things first:

1) Fiancial statements - Hard numbers (which they'd have to release before going public anyway) which puts on paper what they spend, what they owe, how much they make and/or how much they run in deficit.

2) Future projects - They've got SFC 3 and they've got Black 9. What next?

3) General appeal - They've got the niche ST market. However, a niche does not nesscarily make one a good company. I'd like to see coupled with the anser to #2, how they plan to break out of the ST market w/r/t future projects (things like Black9) and get into mass market appeal. If this means trading things like complexity for a slight learning curve, then do it. If a game is like 'perfect', but only 10 people want to buy it, you lose as a company.

4) The sfc3 patch! (okay, this one is a joke

)

5) How they intend to get other investors out of the gaming market who don't know about them to get to invest. In essense, I'd like for people looking for companies to look over taldren's numbers and mission statements and future projects to say, "Hmm. I'm not a gamer, but this company has vision. I think i'll put a bit of money into them".

-Alpha

Ducttapewonder · « **Reply #43 on:** February 18, 2003, 10:26:24 pm »

bump

Erik Bethke · « **Reply #44 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:59:13 am »

Thanks guys... cool thread.

We are currently product-financed through publishers and when times get lean we invest our own money back into (management and employees to a lessor degree) Taldren.

A developer as a publically traded company is basically a bad idea. Developers sell milestones to publishers. Developers generally have 1 to 2; maybe 3 or 4 customers at a time.

You folks are not our customers in the financial sense. Spiritual sense, yes. But not the financials. Generally speaking you do not want to invest in that kind of company.

We are looking to transition from being a developer to becoming a developer/publisher.

Much more is going on below the surface than is appropriate to share in a public forum; however we have several different strong business developments of various time-lines that will get us there.

We have boot-strapped ourselves to get here and we have run for 3+ years without any outside investors our outside debt. This is an amazing accomplishment for a start-up. Most start-ups borrow money to get started. And many run in the red for a number of years before the turn a profit I am sure we could all name dozens.

We manage ourselves well fiscally.

(Little note: the price of the share does not have anything to do with the stock being "expensive" or cheap. For example if I offered Taldren stock for $5 a share and there was only 20,000 shares issued - then you should snap them up instantly for we have cash assets that well exceed that. However if I offered you shares of Taldren at 0.5 a penny and we issued 100 billion shares then the company would be far too expensive.)

-Erik

Demandred · « **Reply #45 on:** February 19, 2003, 11:13:09 am »

I might if I wasn't a poor student.

On the publisher issue, the increasing use of broadband internet connections means that it may now be feasible to release a game entirely online and have it sell just as well as any game in a shop. This is the real reason the likes of the RIAA is throwing a screaming fit about music being available online, the internet will break their monopoly. All it will take is one major artist deciding to sell their music electronically at a price cheaper than CDs.

Marauth · « **Reply #46 on:** February 19, 2003, 12:16:29 pm »

maybe if I weren't broke it'd be something for a ibt of fun - not a big investment, but as they say it's a bad idea to invest in a developer, maybe once they become a publisher aswell.

Oh and I think you'll find the guys name is Richard Branson, the guy who makes a complete ass of himself trying to fly round the world in a hot air balloon, and then failing.

J'inn · « **Reply #47 on:** February 19, 2003, 12:26:37 pm »

Well it's decided then. Glad to hear it.

I'll forward my contract proposal to Taldren soon for setting up a nice IPO deal. I've never done an IPO before but hey how hard could it be? All those regulations aren't very important any ways.

I think Taldren will find my fee very fair. Especially since I cut it in return for some other deals. Such as:

1) J'inn being the sole authorized broker for Taldren stock. A very fair 5% transaction fee will be charged on all sales, purchases, and whatever.

2) J'inn getting a nice 5% cut off the "backside" of the deal on all stock sales from Taldren.

Please mail all inquires to:

KAT J'inn
c/o
First National Bank of Nepal
Numbered and Secret Accounts Unit
P.O. Box 4657
Grand Cayman Island

Oh this is going to work out just great!! I'm so happy I can help out.

Hale · « **Reply #48 on:** February 19, 2003, 12:45:55 pm »

I've never sold a stock short before, but I'd seriously consider doing so if Taldren goes public. Especially if they publish their own games.

ChamadaIV · « **Reply #49 on:** February 19, 2003, 11:03:15 pm »

It's good to see Erik giving publishing some consideration. It's a very risky thing to do, but I truly wish Taldren well should they embark on such an endeavour. Look forward to the future! (and Black9 of course ;-)

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