Topic: Look out! It's raining miniblack holes! (Read 11572 times)

Stormbringer · « **on:** December 13, 2003, 11:43:13 pm »

Seems occasionally cosmic ray collisions with molecules in the atmosphere have energy sufficient to produce min black holes which are unstable and then explode. There have been at least eighty centauro type events detected by cosmic ray detectors. The black hole theory is the one that most closely fits the data from the detector arrays. If so CERN's large hadron collider will soon be able to churn out black holes to order as it will produce the requise collision energy. This will reveal hidden dimensions in our universe among other things like proving mini black holes really exist.

Baker · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:43:56 am »

Why do I get an uneasy feeling when discussing black holes (even if they are miniture) with anything to do with our planet?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2003, 08:55:59 am »

Because the black hole you thing of are incredibly massive and last essentially forever. These go poof! before they can get dangerous or do any ammount of suckage. They are quite harmless. Whether that would be the case with ones created in a collider I'm not certain about.

Dash Jones · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2003, 09:32:31 am »

But if man harnesses it...

DOOM...

uh...would that be 3?

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2003, 11:53:47 am »

Personally, there is nothing that would make me happier. However, it looks like the most likely explanation is a disoriented chiral condensate. The physics 101 jist is that in high energy heavy ion collisions, you produce a section of vacuum that is neutral in terms of chiral preference. When it cools, it condenses to the original chiral state by emitting pions. It is these pions that give the anomalous "had-em" signal.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2003, 12:00:36 pm »

The signature is rare. The frequency fits the theory. The collision theory is correct. Mini black holes were predicted. The spray pattern is the correct shap according to extensive computer modelling. It is called Centaruro events due to the shape; a small man shaped head and a surprisingly large body that makes up the horse part. The research is peer reviewed. The Cern Large Hadron Collider will produce the requisite energy range. It has been discussed as a potential "hazard" of the collider experiments with alarmists saying it might mean the end of the world. I see no reason to either believe or disbelieve it except that the experts beleive it is so. I hope that it is true because that would be wonderful. But in the end I just do not know.

Rat_Boy · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2003, 12:25:22 pm »

Did you say Black Hole?

"The word 'impossible,' Mr. Bush, is only found in the dictionary of fools."

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2003, 12:58:36 pm »

Not really, right? The black hole hypothesis is more of a "dial-a-theory". Since there is no data on what energy might be sufficient to probe exotic gravity behavior (if any!) they, in effect, assumed the answer.

We are still going over the data in the last RHIC Au+Au collision run, but so far the data supports the chiral condensate hypothesis.

As an aside, who are the 'experts' on the matter?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:09:44 pm »

Theodore Tomaras, Andrei Mironov, Alexei Mrozov from data on cosmic ray detectors in the andeas and on mountains in Tajikistan dating back to 1972. (www.arxiv.org/hep-ph/03113318) from the december 6-12 2003 edition of newscienist magazine. I have also read articles in american science popularization magazines a few months ago, concerning the Cern alarmist concerns and whatthey were all about. The facts behind the hype sort of article.

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:22:29 pm »

Hacks!

Seriously though, I've heard this stuff before. Nothing would make me happier (I'm a SUSY fan), but the data doesn't look promising.

Stll, chiral symmetry breaking is cool too. It just doesn't enjoy a front-page name like "black-hole".

Stormbringer · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:29:22 pm »

Heh. I don't know thier credentials. I don't travel in those circles. But often it's the hacks, or flakes that come up with the interesting stuff. I agree about chiral symettry breaking being noteworthy, BTW. But as a layman, I cannot see why if the miniblacks were theorized before they were observed, then the signatures were observed in accordance with the conditions set forth by the theoretical prediction why not give them at least initial credibility until it is independantly checked out. Especially since they are not the first "hacks" to suggest this nor were all of the people who give credence to it hacks. Besides if the darned romulans can do it...

Stormbringer · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:31:34 pm »

A different type of black hole for an A-- hole. But dumping him down one of these might be a good idea.

Rat_Boy · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:35:48 pm »

I meant to say that he looked like Maxmilian Schell's character in The Black Hole.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:39:07 pm »

Oh. It's been a long long time since I watched it (when it originally came out as a matter of fact). But you are right. he does.

Rat_Boy · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:39:47 pm »

"In...through...and beyond!"

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:04:17 pm »

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not dissing their credentials. I just like to think of my group as the current leading edge researchers in this area (you know... we built this new big expensive collider and all...).

Mini-black holes are hypothesized, yes. But why wouldn't they be? I still think they are out there, just that they are not being created in the upper atmosphere by heavy collisions. I predict they require far greater energies to form.

I disagree that these are observations of black holes.

Off topic, I note that I'm comming up as a nay-sayer on several of your topics. It's nothing personal.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:07:32 pm »

Don't worry about it. It generates discussion. BTW I need that collider for an experiment I'm working on...

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:15:44 pm »

We have a free position on the ring. Besides PHENIX (yahoo!), STAR (boo!), phobos, and brahms (who and who?) there is another position on the collider where the rings cross.

What's your thought?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:21:10 pm »

I'll think of something...Antimatter, no it's pass'e. Blackholes, -No it may have been done. Ah! Thats it! The Higgs Boson. I shall demonstrate the existaence of the higg's boson and determine if it has a symetric twin or can be shielded or nuetralized,

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:37:43 pm »

I don't think you'll be able to do that at our machine.

Our energies aren't nearly high enough. I know a few guys who operate the D0 at Fermilab. They have data possibly confirming the existence of Higgs, but not to a high enough order of precision.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #20 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:47:16 pm »

Ah well. But I need my own collider just in case. I'm getting a house with a basement...

762 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 15, 2003, 09:23:12 am »

Hey Spin...

Do you have any quick links for how the research on the RHIC stiff is going?

Thanks!

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2003, 07:24:06 pm »

Sure,

http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/

http://www.phenix.bnl.gov/results.html

If you're curious (and a US citizen), I can give a tour. You ARE on long island...

Stormbringer · « **Reply #23 on:** December 13, 2003, 11:43:13 pm »

Seems occasionally cosmic ray collisions with molecules in the atmosphere have energy sufficient to produce min black holes which are unstable and then explode. There have been at least eighty centauro type events detected by cosmic ray detectors. The black hole theory is the one that most closely fits the data from the detector arrays. If so CERN's large hadron collider will soon be able to churn out black holes to order as it will produce the requise collision energy. This will reveal hidden dimensions in our universe among other things like proving mini black holes really exist.

Baker · « **Reply #24 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:43:56 am »

Why do I get an uneasy feeling when discussing black holes (even if they are miniture) with anything to do with our planet?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #25 on:** December 14, 2003, 08:55:59 am »

Because the black hole you thing of are incredibly massive and last essentially forever. These go poof! before they can get dangerous or do any ammount of suckage. They are quite harmless. Whether that would be the case with ones created in a collider I'm not certain about.

Dash Jones · « **Reply #26 on:** December 14, 2003, 09:32:31 am »

But if man harnesses it...

DOOM...

uh...would that be 3?

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #27 on:** December 14, 2003, 11:53:47 am »

Personally, there is nothing that would make me happier. However, it looks like the most likely explanation is a disoriented chiral condensate. The physics 101 jist is that in high energy heavy ion collisions, you produce a section of vacuum that is neutral in terms of chiral preference. When it cools, it condenses to the original chiral state by emitting pions. It is these pions that give the anomalous "had-em" signal.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #28 on:** December 14, 2003, 12:00:36 pm »

The signature is rare. The frequency fits the theory. The collision theory is correct. Mini black holes were predicted. The spray pattern is the correct shap according to extensive computer modelling. It is called Centaruro events due to the shape; a small man shaped head and a surprisingly large body that makes up the horse part. The research is peer reviewed. The Cern Large Hadron Collider will produce the requisite energy range. It has been discussed as a potential "hazard" of the collider experiments with alarmists saying it might mean the end of the world. I see no reason to either believe or disbelieve it except that the experts beleive it is so. I hope that it is true because that would be wonderful. But in the end I just do not know.

Rat_Boy · « **Reply #29 on:** December 14, 2003, 12:25:22 pm »

Did you say Black Hole?

"The word 'impossible,' Mr. Bush, is only found in the dictionary of fools."

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #30 on:** December 14, 2003, 12:58:36 pm »

Not really, right? The black hole hypothesis is more of a "dial-a-theory". Since there is no data on what energy might be sufficient to probe exotic gravity behavior (if any!) they, in effect, assumed the answer.

We are still going over the data in the last RHIC Au+Au collision run, but so far the data supports the chiral condensate hypothesis.

As an aside, who are the 'experts' on the matter?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #31 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:09:44 pm »

Theodore Tomaras, Andrei Mironov, Alexei Mrozov from data on cosmic ray detectors in the andeas and on mountains in Tajikistan dating back to 1972. (www.arxiv.org/hep-ph/03113318) from the december 6-12 2003 edition of newscienist magazine. I have also read articles in american science popularization magazines a few months ago, concerning the Cern alarmist concerns and whatthey were all about. The facts behind the hype sort of article.

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #32 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:22:29 pm »

Hacks!

Seriously though, I've heard this stuff before. Nothing would make me happier (I'm a SUSY fan), but the data doesn't look promising.

Stll, chiral symmetry breaking is cool too. It just doesn't enjoy a front-page name like "black-hole".

Stormbringer · « **Reply #33 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:29:22 pm »

Heh. I don't know thier credentials. I don't travel in those circles. But often it's the hacks, or flakes that come up with the interesting stuff. I agree about chiral symettry breaking being noteworthy, BTW. But as a layman, I cannot see why if the miniblacks were theorized before they were observed, then the signatures were observed in accordance with the conditions set forth by the theoretical prediction why not give them at least initial credibility until it is independantly checked out. Especially since they are not the first "hacks" to suggest this nor were all of the people who give credence to it hacks. Besides if the darned romulans can do it...

Stormbringer · « **Reply #34 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:31:34 pm »

A different type of black hole for an A-- hole. But dumping him down one of these might be a good idea.

Rat_Boy · « **Reply #35 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:35:48 pm »

I meant to say that he looked like Maxmilian Schell's character in The Black Hole.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #36 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:39:07 pm »

Oh. It's been a long long time since I watched it (when it originally came out as a matter of fact). But you are right. he does.

Rat_Boy · « **Reply #37 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:39:47 pm »

"In...through...and beyond!"

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #38 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:04:17 pm »

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not dissing their credentials. I just like to think of my group as the current leading edge researchers in this area (you know... we built this new big expensive collider and all...).

Mini-black holes are hypothesized, yes. But why wouldn't they be? I still think they are out there, just that they are not being created in the upper atmosphere by heavy collisions. I predict they require far greater energies to form.

I disagree that these are observations of black holes.

Off topic, I note that I'm comming up as a nay-sayer on several of your topics. It's nothing personal.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #39 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:07:32 pm »

Don't worry about it. It generates discussion. BTW I need that collider for an experiment I'm working on...

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #40 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:15:44 pm »

We have a free position on the ring. Besides PHENIX (yahoo!), STAR (boo!), phobos, and brahms (who and who?) there is another position on the collider where the rings cross.

What's your thought?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #41 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:21:10 pm »

I'll think of something...Antimatter, no it's pass'e. Blackholes, -No it may have been done. Ah! Thats it! The Higgs Boson. I shall demonstrate the existaence of the higg's boson and determine if it has a symetric twin or can be shielded or nuetralized,

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #42 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:37:43 pm »

I don't think you'll be able to do that at our machine.

Our energies aren't nearly high enough. I know a few guys who operate the D0 at Fermilab. They have data possibly confirming the existence of Higgs, but not to a high enough order of precision.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #43 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:47:16 pm »

Ah well. But I need my own collider just in case. I'm getting a house with a basement...

762 · « **Reply #44 on:** December 15, 2003, 09:23:12 am »

Hey Spin...

Do you have any quick links for how the research on the RHIC stiff is going?

Thanks!

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #45 on:** December 16, 2003, 07:24:06 pm »

Sure,

http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/

http://www.phenix.bnl.gov/results.html

If you're curious (and a US citizen), I can give a tour. You ARE on long island...

Stormbringer · « **Reply #46 on:** December 13, 2003, 11:43:13 pm »

Seems occasionally cosmic ray collisions with molecules in the atmosphere have energy sufficient to produce min black holes which are unstable and then explode. There have been at least eighty centauro type events detected by cosmic ray detectors. The black hole theory is the one that most closely fits the data from the detector arrays. If so CERN's large hadron collider will soon be able to churn out black holes to order as it will produce the requise collision energy. This will reveal hidden dimensions in our universe among other things like proving mini black holes really exist.

Baker · « **Reply #47 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:43:56 am »

Why do I get an uneasy feeling when discussing black holes (even if they are miniture) with anything to do with our planet?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #48 on:** December 14, 2003, 08:55:59 am »

Because the black hole you thing of are incredibly massive and last essentially forever. These go poof! before they can get dangerous or do any ammount of suckage. They are quite harmless. Whether that would be the case with ones created in a collider I'm not certain about.

Dash Jones · « **Reply #49 on:** December 14, 2003, 09:32:31 am »

But if man harnesses it...

DOOM...

uh...would that be 3?

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #50 on:** December 14, 2003, 11:53:47 am »

Personally, there is nothing that would make me happier. However, it looks like the most likely explanation is a disoriented chiral condensate. The physics 101 jist is that in high energy heavy ion collisions, you produce a section of vacuum that is neutral in terms of chiral preference. When it cools, it condenses to the original chiral state by emitting pions. It is these pions that give the anomalous "had-em" signal.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #51 on:** December 14, 2003, 12:00:36 pm »

The signature is rare. The frequency fits the theory. The collision theory is correct. Mini black holes were predicted. The spray pattern is the correct shap according to extensive computer modelling. It is called Centaruro events due to the shape; a small man shaped head and a surprisingly large body that makes up the horse part. The research is peer reviewed. The Cern Large Hadron Collider will produce the requisite energy range. It has been discussed as a potential "hazard" of the collider experiments with alarmists saying it might mean the end of the world. I see no reason to either believe or disbelieve it except that the experts beleive it is so. I hope that it is true because that would be wonderful. But in the end I just do not know.

Rat_Boy · « **Reply #52 on:** December 14, 2003, 12:25:22 pm »

Did you say Black Hole?

"The word 'impossible,' Mr. Bush, is only found in the dictionary of fools."

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #53 on:** December 14, 2003, 12:58:36 pm »

Not really, right? The black hole hypothesis is more of a "dial-a-theory". Since there is no data on what energy might be sufficient to probe exotic gravity behavior (if any!) they, in effect, assumed the answer.

We are still going over the data in the last RHIC Au+Au collision run, but so far the data supports the chiral condensate hypothesis.

As an aside, who are the 'experts' on the matter?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #54 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:09:44 pm »

Theodore Tomaras, Andrei Mironov, Alexei Mrozov from data on cosmic ray detectors in the andeas and on mountains in Tajikistan dating back to 1972. (www.arxiv.org/hep-ph/03113318) from the december 6-12 2003 edition of newscienist magazine. I have also read articles in american science popularization magazines a few months ago, concerning the Cern alarmist concerns and whatthey were all about. The facts behind the hype sort of article.

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #55 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:22:29 pm »

Hacks!

Seriously though, I've heard this stuff before. Nothing would make me happier (I'm a SUSY fan), but the data doesn't look promising.

Stll, chiral symmetry breaking is cool too. It just doesn't enjoy a front-page name like "black-hole".

Stormbringer · « **Reply #56 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:29:22 pm »

Heh. I don't know thier credentials. I don't travel in those circles. But often it's the hacks, or flakes that come up with the interesting stuff. I agree about chiral symettry breaking being noteworthy, BTW. But as a layman, I cannot see why if the miniblacks were theorized before they were observed, then the signatures were observed in accordance with the conditions set forth by the theoretical prediction why not give them at least initial credibility until it is independantly checked out. Especially since they are not the first "hacks" to suggest this nor were all of the people who give credence to it hacks. Besides if the darned romulans can do it...

Stormbringer · « **Reply #57 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:31:34 pm »

A different type of black hole for an A-- hole. But dumping him down one of these might be a good idea.

Rat_Boy · « **Reply #58 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:35:48 pm »

I meant to say that he looked like Maxmilian Schell's character in The Black Hole.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #59 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:39:07 pm »

Oh. It's been a long long time since I watched it (when it originally came out as a matter of fact). But you are right. he does.

Rat_Boy · « **Reply #60 on:** December 14, 2003, 01:39:47 pm »

"In...through...and beyond!"

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #61 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:04:17 pm »

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not dissing their credentials. I just like to think of my group as the current leading edge researchers in this area (you know... we built this new big expensive collider and all...).

Mini-black holes are hypothesized, yes. But why wouldn't they be? I still think they are out there, just that they are not being created in the upper atmosphere by heavy collisions. I predict they require far greater energies to form.

I disagree that these are observations of black holes.

Off topic, I note that I'm comming up as a nay-sayer on several of your topics. It's nothing personal.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #62 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:07:32 pm »

Don't worry about it. It generates discussion. BTW I need that collider for an experiment I'm working on...

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #63 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:15:44 pm »

We have a free position on the ring. Besides PHENIX (yahoo!), STAR (boo!), phobos, and brahms (who and who?) there is another position on the collider where the rings cross.

What's your thought?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #64 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:21:10 pm »

I'll think of something...Antimatter, no it's pass'e. Blackholes, -No it may have been done. Ah! Thats it! The Higgs Boson. I shall demonstrate the existaence of the higg's boson and determine if it has a symetric twin or can be shielded or nuetralized,

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #65 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:37:43 pm »

I don't think you'll be able to do that at our machine.

Our energies aren't nearly high enough. I know a few guys who operate the D0 at Fermilab. They have data possibly confirming the existence of Higgs, but not to a high enough order of precision.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #66 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:47:16 pm »

Ah well. But I need my own collider just in case. I'm getting a house with a basement...

762 · « **Reply #67 on:** December 15, 2003, 09:23:12 am »

Hey Spin...

Do you have any quick links for how the research on the RHIC stiff is going?

Thanks!

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #68 on:** December 16, 2003, 07:24:06 pm »

Sure,

http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/

http://www.phenix.bnl.gov/results.html

If you're curious (and a US citizen), I can give a tour. You ARE on long island...

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Topic: Look out! It's raining miniblack holes! (Read 11572 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Stormbringer

Baker

Stormbringer

Dash Jones

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

Rat_Boy

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Rat_Boy

Stormbringer

Rat_Boy

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

762

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

Baker

Stormbringer

Dash Jones

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

Rat_Boy

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Rat_Boy

Stormbringer

Rat_Boy

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

762

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

Baker

Stormbringer

Dash Jones

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

Rat_Boy

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Rat_Boy

Stormbringer

Rat_Boy

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

762

IntgrSpin

Topic: Look out! It's raining miniblack holes! (Read 11572 times)