Topic: Wierd turtles

[Stormbringer]

I have an aquarium with aquatic turtles in it. Two were rescued from the lawn mowers on post during the spring hatchling migration. They do it every year and every year thousands of quarter sized babies get creamed, so I got 'em before the lawn mower of darwin got them. Two were bought from stores. One, a Florida peninsula cooter was bought as a mercy to the other species in the tank who it was chewing on. They have a few fascinating behaviors but are otherwise not very good pets. They are dumber than a box of rocks for one thing. The smartest turtle ( how do I know these things?) is and Eastern Mud or Box Turtle which is at least as bright as a rat, some scientists say a bit more.

However they do have some interesting behaviors as I said. For example courtship rituals. The male will fence with other males by placing its foreclaws palms outward next to its "ears" and violently vibrate its fingers as a unit. when turtle males face off they both get in each other's faces and do this repeatedly. It looks somewhat like a slap fight between the three stooges. Strangely when trying to impress a female the male will do the same thing either in front of her or from above. Just now The female cooter performed the same maneuver with one of the juevenile males in the tank. I can tell the sexes apart due to a few anatomical diferences.  

Male aquatic turtles have much longer claws as this is affected by testosterone. They have a longer tail than females usually about twice as long. Thier vent is further out on the tail from the shell's rear opening. This facilitated mating. Females claws are shorter. The tail is stubby and fatter in girth. The vent is closer to the shell. I have two male red eared sliders, i female 'slider and one female florida penisular cooter. The turtles are nearly two years old which is when they first mate. I'm just wondering what the female is doing? She is either seducing him or trying to intimidate him. She is older and far larger than he is.

When I get a house these house guests will find themselves living in a water garden in short order. They are too nasty to keep in a home for long. Keeping thier water clean is too labor intensive.  

[thefish]

I saw a few tiny turtles in the local fish store £40 a piece, ouch! I doubt i would get one, they would have to be kept on their own and look like quite a bit of work to look after..

[Stormbringer]

If they are red eared sliders they are omnivores. When they are small they will kill and eat fish by going for the pectoral fins on larger ones. As they age thier diet becomes more vegatarian. After the first year they will generally not bother healthy fish that do not need to rest on the bottom at night. However they cannot eat out of water due to thier glugular anatomy. And when they eat they muck up the water badly. Standard filtration will not help. A solution is to feed them in a separate tank or in the bath tub or something, otherwise do not use a substrate in thier tank. thier tank need not cycle if they are the only inhabitants. They are completely ruled by instinct and are untrainable. (They will recognize you as thier source of food.) They will never be hand tame. They will always try to flee; unlike land turtles (tortoises) which will come to you and allow you to touch them. water turtles are more trouble than they are worth. Here in the states you will find them in stores but it is against the law to sell them other than to teachers if the turtle is under four inches long. This law was made because they carry salmonella and children were kissing them and putting them in thier mouths and getting sick. I was able to buy a couple due to my trainer certifications.  

[Stormbringer]

A more interesting and unusual aquarium creature is an eastern spotted newt if you can get them. They are found in the eastern continental U.S. but some LFS's may be able to special order them. Thier behavior is rather amusing and unlike many newts and salamanders they are not toxic and may be safely handled. Think of them as like a a super version of a dwarf african frog in terms of behavior. They play at blowing bubbles lean up on the glass of the tank strike poses and will climb out on objects floating in the tank. One looked like he was doing pushups on a floating pad after posing like a yogin in the lotus position on a submerged plant. The only trouble is they will occasionally get out of the aquarium all together if the water level is high enough and they cannot survive long before they dry out. They can be sexed by looking at the rear legs shins which are enlarged in males (think popeye's forearms). They are olive brown with single reddish stripes running the length of thier sides. Thier bellies are yellow with black spots. they max out at about 4 inches (rarely) in length.They can be kept with some non predatory fish.

[Stormbringer]

I fed them a slice of ham torn up into pieces it was every turtle for itself. An all out turtle armmegedon. I've been trying to feed then in a tub so they don't mess up thier water. Apparently all but the cooter are too stupid to recognize food out of thier day to day environment. They were starving. the ham appears to have had no ill effects other than causing a turtle riot.  

[Stormbringer]

Now they are stacked on top of each other in a four deep pile in order of ascending size. sunning themselves under the lamp. Kind of endearing.  

[Sirgod]

 

Quote:
 They were starving. the ham appears to have had no ill effects other than causing a turtle riot.
 

Maybe they would Prefere turtle Soup???

Stephen

[Stormbringer]

The one from Florida might. It was chewing on the tail and feet of it's tank mates in the store. one in particular was in sad shape. So I bought it to spare the whole tank because the store owner apparently couldn't have cared less. The turtles in my own tank were bigger than the cooter and could hold their own.  

[Sirgod]

hehe, I can remember when I was a kid around 3-4 years old, and My grandfather took me fishing. Well, I had wondered off, and came back with A snapping turtle hanging from My finger. he had to remove It's head to get It off my finger, and I felt bad for the turtle, Untill I had to Pull his head out of the shell and Hold It there, while He cut the head off with his pocket knife.

Oh man, I hope no one from PETA reads this story.  

Stephen

PS. Turtles are kinda cool actually.

 

[Stormbringer]

Someone at the school house found a whole clutch of snapper hatchlings. I don't know why, but he took them all home in a bucket and later was asking how to get rid of them. They are rather cute when they are the size of a quarter. But they are meaner than hell and uglier to boot when they start to grow. I told him to take them to a stream that does not connect to fishing ponds or lakes but had minnows, crayfish and vegetation. I think they live on the post golf course now.  

[Sirgod]

Yeah, My elder's have a farm a still out in wwoka Oklahoma, that's been in the Family for almost 90 years know. I once even caught a snapper while fishing, and snared a water snake once while noodling there.

those turtles still give me the willies when I pick one up though. Not the kind like you have, but wild ones, I always have to check out there Beak.

Stephen

[Stormbringer]

My female yellow electrochromis cichlid is carrying a baby. Cichlids are mouth brooders with interesting breeding behavior. That little booger has been in there a long time. I can see it peeking out with it's little black beedy eyes now as she struggles to keep it protected. It is too big and will have to come out soon. I hope it has not grown too large to get free.  

[TB613]

Quote:
My female yellow electrochromis cichlid is carrying a baby. Cichlids are mouth brooders with interesting breeding behavior. That little booger has been in there a long time. I can see it peeking out with it's little black beedy eyes now as she struggles to keep it protected. It is too big and will have to come out soon. I hope it has not grown too large to get free.    

Not all ciclids are mouth brooders although I do believe that the vast majority if not all of the African Rift lake cichlids are. The more traditional nest breeders dominate the Central and South American cichlid families although there are some mouth brooders. Although I have never kept any of the Rift Lake cichlids I do have access to an artesian well with rock hard water and naturally alkaline.  

[Stormbringer]

Yes that would simplify things. She definitely has a baby in there. I'm worried she has carried it too long. Funny thing about it, is I thought they had multiple babies but this one only produces single babies. I guess they could be canibalizing each other in there until only one is left but that would make for a low reproductive success rate. She  has had one other baby. Same thing just one little fiesty "Johnny Bravo" looking small fry.

On a different note I bought a blue ciclid as a mate for a male I already had and as it got older it looks like it may be developing an egg spot on the anal fins. Now all the other fish in the tank already had vivid egg spots so I knew they were male. This one looked as if it had a defect on that fin but it was not an egg spot. Or so I thought. Females are kind of rare in the stores around here. For those who don't know. male mouth brooding cichlids usually have a egg colored spot  or spots on thier ventral fins to trick the females into swallowing his milt. Fertilization actually takes place in her mouth. So females do not have those spots back there. Thats important to know if you want a breeding pair.  

[TB613]

Storm, do you have any African catfish in that tank? At least one of them is a sneak breader that will sneak in with a fertilized egg. If the female picks it up the baby cat will eat all of the baby cichlids. I wouldn't worry too much about her holding the baby too long they can open their mouths amazingly wide and she will kick the little beggar out soon.  

[Stormbringer]

The only cats I know of in the tank are upside down cats. Too big for that. I've never seen an interloper. except for the first time she spawned. One day "johnny bravo" was swimming around in the tank. he was nearly half an inch long when He was first spotted. At that size there can be only one. She has been mouthing food and I think she is eating even with the baby in there. My books say she isn't supposed to eat while carrying the kiddie.  

[thefish]

storm do you have any idea how often cichlids breed??? umm lake malalwe if that helps.
BTW the turtles i saw for sale were about an inch in diameter (shell) and were labled as soft shelled turtles, now im not sure if thats due to calcium deficiency or there is a species with a soft shell..........still £40 each retail.

[Stormbringer]

Soft shells are a different type of turtle. In fact they are a group of turtles. There are some soft shell species in the states but the ones sold in shops are usually from  more exotic locals. Like asia or africa. If so that was a pretty good deal as adults can cost hundreds of dollars. The softshells behavior may be different from the one's I've described. I'm not certain how different, though. I do have some reference books that have info on them.  

[Stormbringer]

Well the blue pair have released thier baby which I have scooped up and put in an isolation tank. The yellow female still hasn't released hers. She is a lot larger than the blues though. I can still see her single fry peeking out when she opens her mouth. [unless her tongue has two beadly little eyes]  The blue female was purchased and paired after the yellow already had a fry in there. She was paired immediately. Hers is already free swimming the yellow's is still in mouth. [also it looks like the normal brood size is one though the yellow could hold at least three the size of the blues fry and thier adult size is aboutthe same at max.]

[thefish]

Quote:
Soft shells are a different type of turtle. In fact they are a group of turtles. There are some soft shell species in the states but the ones sold in shops are usually from  more exotic locals. Like asia or africa. If so that was a pretty good deal as adults can cost hundreds of dollars. The softshells behavior may be different from the one's I've described. I'm not certain how different, though. I do have some reference books that have info on them.  

heh well i was going to get one (since i get them at trade price) but by the time i got to the store they had all kicked the bucket:(