Topic: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.  (Read 40009 times)

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Stormbringer

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #380 on: March 24, 2004, 12:28:02 pm »
planetary engines are possible but way beyond our technology and economy. But if we ignored those inconvenient facts; consider that we could stop the rotation, but with carfully timed thrusts such a fictional engine could apply force in a single direction even if the rotation were not stopped.

Should we have the means to stop the rotation it would only be bad if we did it to a living planet like earth. We wouldn't care if it caused catastrophies on a dead world without an ecosystem or population. The havok would be gone before we inhabited the world in it's new position.

However, your Titan Idea would work if one is postulating the type of tinkering I envisioned anyway. It is one of the options I was considering. I emphsized others to get a conversation started without muddying the issue more than it already was. There are so many options all of which hypothetically are doable and (given certain assumptions are accepted) reasonable and logically consistent.    But since not many people have picked up the gauntlet I threw down I see no reason why we cannot discuss Titan if you like.  

The jovian and saturnian mega engineering  are good options minus the new sun thing, unless we go so far as to combine all the gas giants (and likely not even then.) Still there might be other options available to reach stellar ignition.  And Titan is a wonderful world that SF writers have targeted for colonization for a longtime with and without terraforming.  
« Last Edit: March 24, 2004, 12:37:08 pm by Stormbringer »

Stormbringer

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #381 on: March 24, 2004, 12:50:35 pm »
Speaking of Venus:   I see no reason not to terraform it. After all, we are "Vene-forming Earth right now.  

Ha! I kill me! (I just had to say it 'cos it struck me as funny. We now return you to your regularly scheduled political bickering.

nexa1

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #382 on: March 24, 2004, 02:00:03 pm »
 You are right, Titan would be too much of an engineering feat...so... I woudn't mind if we did turn Venus into a habital planet. But I still think that we would have to move it. Here is why, lke you were saying about plant's needing to be "tweeked" because of the radiation, so would people and animals. Another thing is that even if we did fix the atmosphere, it would still get pretty warm there. I think I read somewhere like 140-170 deg in sun to 75-90 on the dark side. But that might be fixed with a modified planetary shield, perhaps. But here is my main reason for moving Venus. If we were to fo through the effort of making a new planet, I would want it to have rings and a couple moons. Which I don't think would be possible being closer to the sun. So I say just move it. Now ActiveX was on the right track with gravity. just not how he was thinking. We could form a "warp bubble" if you will around all or part of Venus and change it's mass/gravity constant making it easier to move. Then we could use a series of timed thrusts to push it or we could use magnetism to push/pull the planet. (kind of reminds me of an EP from TNG) what do you think?
 I don't like the idea of igniting Jupiter or even making a second star for our solar system. I just see too many bad things happening from that.  

Stormbringer

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #383 on: March 24, 2004, 05:15:03 pm »
With venus, it wasn't radiation so much as light and soil that the plants did not evolve for handling. Plants have a hard time being grown in zones on earth that they did not evolve in let alone another planet. But as for radiation as we commonly think of it ( Gamma, X ray, Alpha, beta, cosmic  and so forth) , there isn't significanly any difference from earth unless I am terribly misinformed.

While I don't necessarily think such (warp or gravity modification )) tech is impossible. I was extrapolating from known technologies forthis discussion. Warp may or may not be discovered. If not then the whole Idea if it depends on warp  would have to be abandoned. Now warp and gravity mod and other fringe sciences are fascinating and if you want to discuss it   I'd be willing to take it up in another thread if you like.  

Stormbringer

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #384 on: May 28, 2004, 02:53:25 pm »
Rise! Rise! Rise from the crypt! It's alive! It's aliiiiiiive!

Stormbringer

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #385 on: May 28, 2004, 03:03:58 pm »
Hmmmm. what has transpired since the last time this topic was discussed? Several planetoids which could supply some mass to the project have been found including some inside earth's orbit.These could jsut be the tip of the iceberg of unknown planetoids.  I think this lays to rests the criticism that there is not enough mass to do what I propose.  Microbes that definitely could survive on Mars have been found. These also are at about the same size as the inclusions in the Mars meteor that was claimed to be possible fossils of microbes from Mars. Remember the studies critics leveled the charge thatthey were too small because no known bacteria on earth were that size. These could be engineered into teraforming machines that self replicate. Telescopes are being built that can detect earth sized planets around alien suns. The president announced his mars and beyond initiative but failed to create funding for it and instead created chaos in planned missions.  

Stormbringer

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #386 on: May 29, 2004, 11:28:36 am »
bump  

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #387 on: July 10, 2004, 01:14:30 pm »
If you want mass for your building go to Tau Ceti.  There is an abundance there.
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Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #388 on: July 10, 2004, 08:13:22 pm »
Khan t do it. ;D

 Besides they are finding the requisite stuff in NEO, the kuiper belt and oort clouds.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #389 on: July 11, 2004, 01:41:11 am »
Khan t do it. ;D

 Besides they are finding the requisite stuff in NEO, the kuiper belt and oort clouds.

Boy are you hard to please.

;)
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Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #390 on: July 11, 2004, 01:48:56 am »
*This* is ceti alpha five!!! -Ceti Alpha 6 blew up just weeks after we got here. The explosion drew this planet into sixes orbit. Admiral Kirk never bothered to check up on us. It is only the fact of my genetically enhanced intellect...

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #391 on: July 11, 2004, 01:57:46 am »
*This* is ceti alpha five!!! -Ceti Alpha 6 blew up just weeks after we got here. The explosion drew this planet into sixes orbit. Admiral Kirk never bothered to check up on us. It is only the fact of my genetically enhanced intellect...

Now it comes out.

You want to build a new planet to replace the one you broke before mommy finds out.

:lol:              :lol:               :lol:                :lol:          :lol:              :lol:               :lol:                :lol:         :lol:              :lol:               :lol:                :lol:
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
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Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #392 on: July 11, 2004, 02:08:34 am »
oopsie!

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.
« Reply #393 on: December 14, 2005, 02:31:28 am »
lots of info on kuiper objects including an estimation of mass/diameters numbers of etc:  Mysterious Deep-Space Object Raises Questions On Origin Of Solar System

An edge-on-view of the solar system to show the tilt of Buffy's orbit. See larger image. Credits: The Canada France Ecliptic Plane Survey.
Paris (AFP) Dec 13, 2005
Astronomers working in Canada, France and the United States said Tuesday they had found a small deep-space object, nicknamed Buffy, that challenges mainstream theories about the evolution of the Solar System.
The rock lies in the Kuiper Belt, the name for the flock of objects beyond Neptune's orbit that are believed to be leftover rubble from the Solar System's building phase and are the source for many comets, the Canada-France Ecliptic Plane Survey (CFEPS) said.

Measuring between 500 and 1,000 kilometers (300 to 600 miles) across and taking about 440 years to make just one circuit of the Sun, Buffy is remarkable not for its size -- around half a dozen identified Kuiper Belt objects are bigger -- but for its location and orbital tilt.

"This new object challenges current theories about the history of the early Solar System," CFEPS said in a press release.

"(...) This new discovery is exciting because it causes us to rethink our understanding about how the Kuiper Belt formed." Buffy has an almost perfect circular orbit and encircles the Sun at an extreme tilt, at 47 degrees to the orbital plane of the planets as they swing around the Sun.

But it lies in a curious outer region of the Kuiper Belt, on the dark, bone-freezing fringes of the Solar System.

The theory is that, billions of years ago, this remote community of rocks, the so-called "extended scattered disk" of the Kuiper Belt, got their extremely eccentric orbits because of a passing star.

The star's gravitational pull was enough to give the objects a tug, pulling them out of a circular orbit but not enough to coax them away from enslavement to the Sun.

But Buffy is the odd one out -- its almost-perfect orbit and tilt circular puts a dent in the "star" theory.

One possibility, the discoverers say, is that, in the infant days of the Solar System, the nascent Neptune lay much closer to the Sun.

It eventually migrated outwards, causing at least some members of the Belt's "extended scattered disk" to develop more circular and tilted orbits, they speculate.

Buffy is the temporary name given by the team for the object, whose official designation by the Paris-based International Astronomical Union (IAU) is 2004 XR 190.

Its orbit is in a relatively narrow range of between 52 and and 62 astronomical units (AU) from the Sun (an AU is a standard measurement, being that of the distance between the Earth and the Sun, of approximately 150 million kilometers, or 93 million miles).

By comparison, another "extended scattered disk" member called Sedna swings out to as far as 900 AU before coming as close to the Sun as 76 AU.

The Kuiper Belt was first recognised in 1992.

Most of its objects lie in a region that extends from 30 to 50 AU where there are "at least" 70,000 rocks with a diameter of 100 kms (60 miles) or more, according to David Jewitt, a specialist at the University of Hawaii.

Buffy was first noted by Lynne Allen of the University of British Columbia, Canada, in December last year as she pored over data from powerful computers that sift through telescopic images in search of new celestial sightings.

Because Kuiper Belt objects take so long to go around the Sun, it takes between one and two years of additional observations to calculate their orbits precisely.

Further measurements are needed over the next three months for a fine-tuning of Buffy's orbit.

related report


Discovery of a large Kuiper Belt object with an unusual orbit

A team of astronomers working in Canada, France and the United States have discovered an unusual small body orbiting the Sun beyond Neptune, in the region astronomers call the Kuiper belt. This new object is twice as far from the Sun as Neptune and is roughly half the size of Pluto. The body, temporarily code-named "Buffy", has a highly unusual orbit which is difficult to explain using previous theories of the formation of the outer Solar System.

Currently 58 astronomical units from the Sun (1 astronomical unit, or AU, is the distance between the Earth and the Sun), the new object never approaches closer than 50 AU, because its orbit is close to circular.

Almost all Kuiper belt objects discovered beyond Neptune are between 30 AU and 50 AU away. Beyond 50 AU, the main Kuiper belt appears to end, and what few objects have been discovered beyond this distance have all been on very high eccentricity (non-circular) orbits.

Most of these high-eccentricity orbits are the result of Neptune "flinging" the object outward by a gravitational slingshot. However, because this new object does not approach closer than 50 AU, a different theory is needed to explain its orbit. Complicating the problem, the object's orbit also has an extreme tilt, being inclined (tilted) at 47 degrees to the rest of the Solar System.


Source: Agence France-Presse