Topic: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet. (Read 42695 times)

Stormbringer · « **Reply #160 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:11:17 pm »

Irridium is a common as dust bunnies in the asteroid belt. The Yucatan impact spread a layer of irridium dust all over the world and that was one (1/2 mile wide???) asteroid. Well your right about one thing. Humans would be there in small numbers with the robots to monitor the work, most likely. So they would need shielding for thier base. But the melting would not be nuclear. It would be big solar ovens.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #161 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:17:04 pm »

Nothing in all likelihood. Planetary alignments where all the planetary mass in the solar system is lined up do nothing to the Earth. The proposed planet's mass is already there in the belt. Nothing happens. Some of those bodies are already quite large Ceres is 1/4 the size of the Earth (perhaps just the moon?)

JMM · « **Reply #162 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:26:45 pm »

Storm is looking for a project so his robotics company stock shoots for the moon, hehehehehehehe...

Just kidding around my friend.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #163 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:30:47 pm »

The planet would reside in the former asteroid belt not near earth. The Asteroid belt might not provide enough gas for the atmosphere but the Oort cloud and Kuiper belt certainly would. There is evidence that the oceans water originally came from cometary impacts over time. Likely the gravitational forces present during the formation of the original solar system destroyed the planet. That or impacts. Impacts could have also drove the atmosphere off. After that the solar wind would have driven it out of the area. An earth sized planet would hold an atmosphere. Mars is on the edge of being able to retain enough gas to be livable and it is 1/4 the size. the atmospheres gas content could be tuned to retain heat to compensate for the distance. CO2 water vapor and methane could be increased quite a bit without altering our ability to breath un aided. These would trap more heat. Mars does reach 80 degrees (briefly) in it's short summer and it would be further out than the planet I proposed.

The robots would each be idiot savants; brilliant at thier specialisation but otherwise dumber than a box of rocks. They would additionally have built in limitations including a termination clause upon completion of thier task. They would not be capable of altering thier basic programming and they would definitely not be sentient. Why go to the trouble of making them sentient when an automaton would perform better?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #164 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:36:46 pm »

I have not looked at the economics beyond the need for replicating robots to achieve it. However; now that you mention it, the profit potential for such an industry would be enormous. Spin offs, minerals, technology...

Not mentioning real estate; I'd assumed the planet would be free for colonization. However at that future time some sort of framework for international cooperation might be necessary to avoid conflict over territorial disputes.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #165 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:40:48 pm »

I don't believe the mass would disturb the earth. I worry about altering it's orbit to ensure th orbit is stable where it is at The asteroid belt would describe the orbit I want it to stay at.

JMM · « **Reply #166 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:43:09 pm »

I will agree with you on that point Storm, we have no idea what kind of minerals are out there. I'd be laughing my arse off if someone hit a payload of gold and made it about the same value as silver. Of course the corp. cartel would hoarde it and not allow it to happen, just as the DeBeers cartel only releases a fraction of the available diamonds to keep the prices sky high. I imagine there is a lot to see and do out there, but unless we get reborn to learn another of life's lessons, I will not be around to see it.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #167 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:43:38 pm »

You realise a Dyson sphere is mor ambitious and far more dangerous than what I'm suggesting. It is also far more vast than a planet. Dyson's sphere was ultimately a manufactured sphere encapsulating a star or a planet.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #168 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:48:06 pm »

It would take a big "meteor" to affect the orbit of an earth sized planet; likely one large enough to shatter it. The impactors that killed off the dinosaurs did not alter the Earths own orbit. My planet would be now where near earth. By Bode's law it would be half way between the Earth and Mars.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #169 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:51:47 pm »

Not as large a budget as it appears. The work done by self replicating drones. The infrastructure is what would drive the costs. It shouldn't be that much more expensive than the international space station or a colony on the moon or mars.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #170 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:54:47 pm »

Actually we do know quite a bit. Irridium iron platinum, diamonds, gold, silver, titanium a host of other things have been detected over the years by spectral analysis and other means. Mining is one of the proposed reasons to go there.

EDIT: and not all the asteroids would get used to make planets. coincidentally, they would need to be disposed of to make the planet safe.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #171 on:** December 05, 2003, 11:18:30 pm »

Regarding the dyson sphere; I don't think ther is enough material in the solar system to build one with any degree of structural integrity. Not even if we completely demolished all of the terrestrial planets and the asteroid belts. It would be too thin and flimsy even if we did manage to completely eclose the sun in a shell. How thick could it be? and how would we have any material left over to construct the cities that are the point of a dyson sphere?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #172 on:** December 06, 2003, 09:58:23 am »

Damn it! The total mass of the asteroid belt is 1/30 th that of the earth? How can that be? It appears that the kuiper belt and Oort cloud have from 40 times the earth mass to more than the mass of jupiter. Looks like the robotic drones will have to travel a lot further and overcome a lot more momentum to get them where they need to be. It will also take a lot more of them due to thier icy composition. It could still be done. ...Delays. Delays.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #173 on:** December 06, 2003, 07:47:44 pm »

That does not sound right if Ceres is .25 the mass of the moon and the moon is even 10% the size of the earth then ceres is 2.5 percent of earth's mass. There are other large asteroids and countless small ones and even more dust. How in the heck can those figures be compatible. But thats what a google search on the mass of the asteroid belt turned up. Getting non ice mass from the Oort cloud and Kuiper belt would be extremely lengthy and tedious. can some one confirm the collective asteroid mass?

WillWeasel · « **Reply #174 on:** December 06, 2003, 09:21:47 pm »

I had heard that Ceres is a slight bit less then 1/2 of the total mass of the Belt. Here are some links were thats seems to be backed up by some "facts" This was just aquick search.

http://aa.springer.de/papers/8334002/2300729/sc3.htm

and as a quick reference the mass of earth is 6 x 10^24 kg roughly.

So ya the mass of the Belt seems to be to low to make even a mars like world.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #175 on:** December 06, 2003, 09:24:49 pm »

Darn it! Well there are fortunately other sources of material such as the kuiper and Oort material that can serve. Unfortunately, they are not close at hand and require a lot more work to process.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #176 on:** December 06, 2003, 09:30:38 pm »

Hey wait a minute! IIRC theory says the asteroid belt is the result of a failed terrestrial sized world trying to form at the beginning of the solar system. If so surely the rest of it didn't turn to dust and blow away. And it would blow away if it was dust sized due to the solar wind and photon pressure. But where did it go? Perhaps there is more of it there than we can see. Heck, they are still looking for planets and brown dwarfs just outside pluto orbit. It seems to me if they think we couldn't see a star sized mass outside pluto then how can they predict the mass available in construction rubble in a similar area?

Stormbringer · « **Reply #177 on:** December 07, 2003, 10:36:05 am »

Well, anyone have any ideas on the overall rock/metal mass component of the Oort cloud and Kuiper belt? The total mass (including ice and hydrocarbons) is from 40X terran mass to many times jupiters mass. Any ideas on reclaiming the stuff if it is just ice locked dust? I'm kind of holding a conversation with myself here. It's very amusing, I can assure you.

IntgrSpin · « **Reply #178 on:** December 07, 2003, 01:23:24 pm »

Nobody really knows how much mass is there. Estimates range from 0.5 of Earth to 10xEarth.

As for the asteroid belt, my gut tells me that there is a reason why no planet formed there in the first place (Jupiter, Sun) and any attempt to put one there, just wouldn't work.

To answer an earlier question, if there WERE a planet there, it's gravity wouldn't effect anything at all noticably. A good approximation of the Solar System is the Sun + Jupiter. All the other mass is negligible unless you get REAL close (hard to do by accident).

Stormbringer · « **Reply #179 on:** December 07, 2003, 01:39:40 pm »

I think mars being closer to jupiter argues against that. The proto-planet was demolished or it's formation was disrupted by something that happened early in the formation process. perhaps by strike, perhaps by gravity perturbations from the Gas giants. In other star systems the gas giants are further in towards thier stars. of all the examples we know of only a few have Gas Giants in the hinterlands. Actually only one I've read about. The gas giants likely migrated out rather than formed where they are at. If so the planet may have been destroyed as a result of that. There is no reason to believe the forces responsible are still at play.

Now because the estimated total mass is far greater than your figure you are talking about rocky or metalic mass only, not ice, right?

News:

Topic: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet. (Read 42695 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

JMM

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

JMM

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

WillWeasel

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

IntgrSpin

Stormbringer

Topic: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet. (Read 42695 times)