Topic: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet. (Read 44124 times)

ActiveX · « **Reply #120 on:** March 24, 2004, 08:24:56 am »

Pull it with gravity...

Stormbringer · « **Reply #121 on:** March 24, 2004, 12:09:22 pm »

In venus's case no moving is necessary. It's orbit is not the reason it is a hell hole. It's atmosphere is. With the right combination of gases it could be forced to have a climate similar to earths tropical zones. Venus gravity equals earth's more or less. It has an active tectonic system and thus a magnetosphere that protects from radiation. It is nearby. The solar radiation would make earth type plants welcome with little tinkering. The other planets and moons would require a lot more work.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #122 on:** March 24, 2004, 12:28:02 pm »

planetary engines are possible but way beyond our technology and economy. But if we ignored those inconvenient facts; consider that we could stop the rotation, but with carfully timed thrusts such a fictional engine could apply force in a single direction even if the rotation were not stopped.

Should we have the means to stop the rotation it would only be bad if we did it to a living planet like earth. We wouldn't care if it caused catastrophies on a dead world without an ecosystem or population. The havok would be gone before we inhabited the world in it's new position.

However, your Titan Idea would work if one is postulating the type of tinkering I envisioned anyway. It is one of the options I was considering. I emphsized others to get a conversation started without muddying the issue more than it already was. There are so many options all of which hypothetically are doable and (given certain assumptions are accepted) reasonable and logically consistent. But since not many people have picked up the gauntlet I threw down I see no reason why we cannot discuss Titan if you like.

The jovian and saturnian mega engineering are good options minus the new sun thing, unless we go so far as to combine all the gas giants (and likely not even then.) Still there might be other options available to reach stellar ignition. And Titan is a wonderful world that SF writers have targeted for colonization for a longtime with and without terraforming.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #123 on:** March 24, 2004, 12:50:35 pm »

Speaking of Venus: I see no reason not to terraform it. After all, we are "Vene-forming Earth right now.

Ha! I kill me! (I just had to say it 'cos it struck me as funny. We now return you to your regularly scheduled political bickering.

nexa1 · « **Reply #124 on:** March 24, 2004, 02:00:03 pm »

You are right, Titan would be too much of an engineering feat...so... I woudn't mind if we did turn Venus into a habital planet. But I still think that we would have to move it. Here is why, lke you were saying about plant's needing to be "tweeked" because of the radiation, so would people and animals. Another thing is that even if we did fix the atmosphere, it would still get pretty warm there. I think I read somewhere like 140-170 deg in sun to 75-90 on the dark side. But that might be fixed with a modified planetary shield, perhaps. But here is my main reason for moving Venus. If we were to fo through the effort of making a new planet, I would want it to have rings and a couple moons. Which I don't think would be possible being closer to the sun. So I say just move it. Now ActiveX was on the right track with gravity. just not how he was thinking. We could form a "warp bubble" if you will around all or part of Venus and change it's mass/gravity constant making it easier to move. Then we could use a series of timed thrusts to push it or we could use magnetism to push/pull the planet. (kind of reminds me of an EP from TNG) what do you think?
I don't like the idea of igniting Jupiter or even making a second star for our solar system. I just see too many bad things happening from that.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #125 on:** March 24, 2004, 05:15:03 pm »

With venus, it wasn't radiation so much as light and soil that the plants did not evolve for handling. Plants have a hard time being grown in zones on earth that they did not evolve in let alone another planet. But as for radiation as we commonly think of it ( Gamma, X ray, Alpha, beta, cosmic and so forth) , there isn't significanly any difference from earth unless I am terribly misinformed.

While I don't necessarily think such (warp or gravity modification )) tech is impossible. I was extrapolating from known technologies forthis discussion. Warp may or may not be discovered. If not then the whole Idea if it depends on warp would have to be abandoned. Now warp and gravity mod and other fringe sciences are fascinating and if you want to discuss it I'd be willing to take it up in another thread if you like.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #126 on:** May 28, 2004, 02:53:25 pm »

Rise! Rise! Rise from the crypt! It's alive! It's aliiiiiiive!

Stormbringer · « **Reply #127 on:** May 28, 2004, 03:03:58 pm »

Hmmmm. what has transpired since the last time this topic was discussed? Several planetoids which could supply some mass to the project have been found including some inside earth's orbit.These could jsut be the tip of the iceberg of unknown planetoids. I think this lays to rests the criticism that there is not enough mass to do what I propose. Microbes that definitely could survive on Mars have been found. These also are at about the same size as the inclusions in the Mars meteor that was claimed to be possible fossils of microbes from Mars. Remember the studies critics leveled the charge thatthey were too small because no known bacteria on earth were that size. These could be engineered into teraforming machines that self replicate. Telescopes are being built that can detect earth sized planets around alien suns. The president announced his mars and beyond initiative but failed to create funding for it and instead created chaos in planned missions.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #128 on:** May 29, 2004, 11:28:36 am »

bump

Stormbringer · « **Reply #129 on:** December 05, 2003, 01:34:33 am »

This may have to be moved to the H&S forum because it may be controversial with some types of people. What if we send a fleet of self replicating robotic tugs, solar collector oven satellites and ancilliary equipment to the asteroid belt. They would manuever asteroids into proximity of one another then weld or melt them together until enough mass was accumulated to cause gravity to finish the work of constructing a terrestrial core approximately the same size as the earth's core. Then carbonaceous or nonmetalic asteroids could be processed to form a mantle and finally a crust. The protoplanet could be constructed in such a way that it's solar orbit could be stable and it's spin rate could be controlled as it is built up so that it could be near the earths. Either the original fleet working in the asteroid belt or another dispatched to the ort and kuiper belt could use the materials there to pelt the dry planet with water and gases to become an atmosphere. The gas mixture could be altered so that the distance from the sun is mitigated by greenhouse gases. The limited but self replicating fleet could enable this be done in an amazingly short time (relatively speaking.) This would have several benefits.Firstly it would get rid of most of the larger earth endangering debris in the solar system. Secondly it would in due time give the burgeoning population somewhere nearby to go to. Thirdly it would develop a knowledge base for terraforming and environmental disaster control. It would spare the existing planets from the environmentalist controversy likely to ensue if someone decides to terraform Mars, Venus, Titan or other worlds. (this would destroy any chances of finding either life or evidence of past life on those worlds.) The only thing I'm not sure in regards to constructing a planet are in regard to creating the dynamo needed to create a molten core necessary for a magnetosphere.

Sethan · « **Reply #130 on:** December 05, 2003, 02:02:46 am »

Quote:

It would spare the existing planets from the environmentalist controversy likely to ensue if someone decides to terraform Mars, Venus, Titan or other worlds. (this would destroy any chances of finding either life or evidence of past life on those worlds.)

What makes you think it would stop the militant environmentalists? There might be endangered microbes living on some of the asteroids you're planning to use to make that planet, you know.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #131 on:** December 05, 2003, 02:20:48 am »

I would hope the difference would be the number of protestors. A few hundred loonies verses tens of thousands of them. There may be a valid point if we were about to terraform Mars, Venus, Europa (not really a good candidate for terraforming) where there might actually be microbial life or fossils. I wouldn't let it stop me but on those worlds at least they would have a point of sorts.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #132 on:** December 05, 2003, 06:43:20 am »

OK, I'll keep the ball rolling: I wonder how much mass is available there (in the asteroid belt?) I suspect there is much more than needed to equal Earth's mass. If so The gravity of the planet could be equal or slightly more than Earth's. There might even be enough to construct two planets and set them at the antipodes of an eliptical orbit so one is always opposite the other relative to the sun. If so, what are the gravity ramifications? I'd assume that such a dual orbit would be stable because of all the other planetary juxtapositions have not resulted in disaster. Of course the velocities would have to be the same for each point on the elipse; IOW when planet A reaches the point on the elipse that planet B occupied at X velocity, it should have the same velocity at that point that planet B had there.

Scott Allen Abfalter · « **Reply #134 on:** December 05, 2003, 09:30:57 am »

Forget that plan. Instead let's create a 2nd astroid belt and blow the snots out of Venus!

hobbesmaster · « **Reply #135 on:** December 05, 2003, 09:46:17 am »

Lets just build a ring world.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #137 on:** December 05, 2003, 09:55:53 am »

What is the value of a planet that can be colonized versus the relatively easily obtained mineral wealth of the asteroids if they were mined instead? Since I propose a fleet of self replicating robots programed to reproduce until they have sufficient numbers to perform each of thier tasks, what would that cost assuming there are different castes; miners, smelters, fabricators, tugs, communicators, sensors, and so forth working like an ant colony? Using such a replication scheme how long would it take to accomplish each phase of the operations?

The robots would be specialists; highly sophisticated at doing on thing or set of things but incapable of much else and programed to deactivate upon completion of thier overall task. No rise of the machine type scenarios there.

762 · « **Reply #138 on:** December 05, 2003, 09:59:20 am »

I think Bush is already planning to build a Dyson Sphere.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #139 on:** December 05, 2003, 10:03:11 am »

I suppose you parrots would rather discuss politics instead? Squawk!

Now, glossed over in all this is the danger to the earth in the event we cannot control the orbit and velocity of the new planet as it's forming. How would we do that? (I *think* I know, but I could be wrong) How difficult would it be? What level of precision is needed? Anyone know anything about orbital mechanics?

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Topic: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet. (Read 44124 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

ActiveX

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

nexa1

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Sethan

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

762

Scott Allen Abfalter

hobbesmaster

Scott Allen Abfalter

Stormbringer

762

Stormbringer

Topic: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet. (Read 44124 times)