Topic: Modest space project idea: Lets make a planet.

[Stormbringer]

This may have to be moved to the H&S forum because it may be controversial with some types of people. What if we send a fleet of self replicating robotic tugs, solar collector oven satellites and ancilliary equipment to the asteroid belt. They would manuever asteroids into proximity of one another then weld or melt them together until enough mass was accumulated to cause gravity to finish the work of constructing a terrestrial core approximately the same size as the earth's core. Then carbonaceous or nonmetalic asteroids could be processed to form a mantle and finally a crust. The protoplanet could be constructed in such a way that it's solar orbit could be stable and it's spin rate could be controlled as it is built up so that it could be near the earths. Either the original fleet working in the asteroid belt or another dispatched to the ort and kuiper belt could use the materials there to pelt the dry planet with water and gases to become an atmosphere. The gas mixture could be altered so that the distance from the sun is mitigated by greenhouse gases. The limited but self replicating fleet could enable this be done in an amazingly short time (relatively speaking.) This would have several benefits.Firstly it would get rid of most of the larger earth endangering debris in the solar system. Secondly it would in due time give the burgeoning population somewhere nearby to go to. Thirdly it would develop a knowledge base for terraforming and environmental disaster control. It would spare the existing planets from the environmentalist controversy likely to ensue if someone decides to terraform Mars, Venus, Titan or other worlds. (this would destroy any chances of finding either life or evidence of past life on those worlds.) The only thing I'm not sure in regards to constructing a planet are in regard to creating the dynamo needed to create a molten core necessary for a magnetosphere.  

[Sethan]

Quote:
 It would spare the existing planets from the environmentalist controversy likely to ensue if someone decides to terraform Mars, Venus, Titan or other worlds. (this would destroy any chances of finding either life or evidence of past life on those worlds.)  

What makes you think it would stop the militant environmentalists?  There might be endangered microbes living on some of the asteroids you're planning to use to make that planet, you know.

[Stormbringer]

I would hope the difference would be the number of protestors. A few hundred loonies verses tens of thousands of them. There may be a valid point if we were about to terraform Mars, Venus, Europa (not really a good candidate for terraforming) where there might actually be microbial life or fossils. I wouldn't let it stop me but on those worlds at least they would have a point of sorts.

[Stormbringer]

OK, I'll keep the ball rolling: I wonder how much mass is available there (in the asteroid belt?) I suspect there is much more than needed to equal  Earth's mass. If so The gravity of the planet could be equal or slightly more than Earth's. There might even be enough to construct two planets and set them at the antipodes of an eliptical orbit so one is always opposite the other relative to the sun. If so, what are the gravity ramifications? I'd assume that such a dual orbit would be stable because of all the other planetary juxtapositions have not resulted in disaster. Of course the velocities would have to be the same for each point on the elipse; IOW when planet A reaches the point on the elipse that planet B occupied at X velocity, it should have the same velocity at that point that planet B had there.  

[762]

Quote:

Quote:
 It would spare the existing planets from the environmentalist controversy likely to ensue if someone decides to terraform Mars, Venus, Titan or other worlds. (this would destroy any chances of finding either life or evidence of past life on those worlds.)  

What makes you think it would stop the militant environmentalists?  There might be endangered microbes living on some of the asteroids you're planning to use to make that planet, you know.  

You boys have to be clear on this! There can't be so much as a microbe, or the SHOW'S OFF!!

[Scott Allen Abfalter]

Forget that plan.  Instead let's create a 2nd astroid belt and blow the snots out of Venus!

 

[hobbesmaster]

Lets just build a ring world.  

[Scott Allen Abfalter]

Quote:
Lets just build a ring world.    

Really, we've just about screwed this one up anyways.

[Stormbringer]

What is the value of a planet that can be colonized versus the relatively easily obtained mineral wealth of the asteroids if they were mined instead? Since I propose a fleet of self replicating robots programed to reproduce until they have sufficient numbers to perform each of thier tasks, what would that cost assuming there are different castes; miners, smelters, fabricators, tugs, communicators, sensors, and so forth working like an ant colony? Using such a replication scheme how long would it take to accomplish each phase of the operations?

The robots would be specialists; highly sophisticated at doing on thing or set of things but incapable of much else and programed to deactivate upon completion of thier overall task. No rise of the machine type scenarios there.



 

[762]

I think Bush is already planning to build a Dyson Sphere.

[Stormbringer]

I suppose you parrots would rather discuss politics instead? Squawk!  

Now, glossed over in all this is the danger to the earth in the event we cannot control the orbit and velocity of the new planet as it's forming. How would we do that? (I *think* I know, but I could be wrong) How difficult would it be? What level of precision is needed? Anyone know anything about orbital mechanics?

[762]

To alter the orbit of an Earth-sized planet would require a force of gigaton proportions. Probably not attainable with current thermonuclear weapons technology. If it were it would be something like a 5 or 6 stage thermonuclear device of massive proportions.

[NJAntman]

Go with something easier as desribed in David Brin's novel "Heart of the Comet". Throw a short range colony ship onto the surface of a passing comet, or push a colony ship out to a large body in the belts and mine out its' innards for the space and resources to build a colony inside. Then just ride the sucker out to the belts to jump too more viable bodies or go further to the outer system and nudge it out of the system from there.

Don't have to be a Gorn to live in a rock ship.

P.S. Sorry if I've hijacked the rock thread.  

[Stormbringer]

I rather figured one or a combination of the following:  A sizable seed asteroind in a stable orbit already. And or carfull timing of the additional material as the planet is built up from that seed would impart incremental momentum and vector changes until the desired orbit and spin is achieved. The equations for orbit should yied the proper values. The planet would not be stationary and then accelerated to proper speed and turned in the proper direction.  

[JMM]

Good idea, but I would be scared to death of a planet circling the sun in the same range as Earth, what if IT gets impacted by a meteor instead of us and throws it off course, maybe on a collision course with Earth? I prefer the money and resources go into space travel, sooner or later we will have to leave this system anyways...  

[Stormbringer]

The thing is rather than take a centuries long trip to another star which might not have a suitable world upon arrival, I propose building a suitable world mere days or weeks away. The replicating robot scheme should significantly shorten the time required to do so from centuries or millenia to a manageably short amount of time. Further it is my aim for the project to recreate as closely as possible earth like conditions of atmosphere, magnetosphere, gravity, daylight period and temperature range or climate.

[Sirgod]

I've been thinking about this since I first read the Proposal this morning. My only concern would be, do we have the technology to create Self replicating Robots, even with a Caste system in mind, Can we do this? or would we have to simply make A replecator Class, that would be programmed to make the others?

I guess It could be set up like an Assembly line type thing.

the other thing I thought about was the post you made the other day about Shielding, and the use of hydrogen in a polymere. This might also be very usefull in Creating the new planet. To be honest, I've always liked the idea of minning the asteroids , and If I ever won the lottery, I'd try and make a company to do just this.

Stephen

[Sethan]

From a practical standpoint, it makes more sense than trying to travel to another star with our current technology.

From a risk/reward standpoint, the risk is currently unacceptable.

We as a species are (at present) stuck in this planetary system, and rely on a single planet in it for survival.  If we screw that up via some unforeseen consequence, we are hosed.

Want to terraform Mars?  Go to it.  Find a way to fix Venus atmosphere so a colony could be placed there?  Have a blast.

Want to muck with the orbital mechanics of the only star system we have?  Let's wait until we have another option if something goes wrong.

[Stormbringer]

The factory caste or a portion thereof would handle the replication. It would not be an individual thing (might lead to complications). Yes automated production is advanced enough that such a thing could be done fairly easily (IMO). Please elaborate on the polymer idea?

[JMM]

It's not that it's not a good idea Storm, it's just that sooner or later we have to leave. As it stands right now, we could build a starship and send people out long term, all the while developing newer technology. As Sethan pointed out, you are talking an astronomical budget either way, I prefer the way that allows some of our people to leave just in case. Even a starship at sub light would take the bankroll of many industrialized nations to build, the ISS is a joke compared to the money and resources required for such a vessel.

Of course nobody in leadership positions really cares right now, they know they will be long gone before then, so they think and spend only for today, not for future generations...