Topic: SFC:OP Ponderings: what should I work on next?

[FireSoul]

uhm.. I think you should drop the idea of "porting" scripts from SFC1. It's actually easier to take a template SFC2 script and copy over parts of the sources you're trying to set-up from the SFC1 script..

.. you have to re-invent the wheel, hence why a lot of people are relunctant to attempt doing the work (me included)
...

-- Luc
FireSoul

[Cleaven]

Quote:
Hi Firesoul
    I think that you did a fantastic job and personally what I'd like to see is taking more sfb scenarios and turning them into single and multi-player missions and  campagins and adding new missions to the campaigns. I seem to remember a sfb scenario where yourship is in space dock undergoing repairs when long range scanners pick up enemy ships or a ship heading your way.  You have to take your ship out of spacedock  while systems are being repaired  and get it ready for combat.  How about adding in some more monsters like the space dragon and Juggernaut and sunsnake to give monster scenarios more flavour and have the campign choose those.  
   What ever you choose to do I'll back you because I'm enjoying what your doing.    

If the neutral co-op problem is a bit much, and it may well be, the the above idea is good fun too.  

[DeepThought]

None of the above.

One of things about SFC and SFC2:EAW was the mission editor, a companion to ShipEdit by HeavensEagle, if memory servers.  I'd give my eye teeth to have a mission editor for OP!

--DeepThought  

[FireSoul]

well..
.. get me the sources to FMSE and then maybe...

-- Luc

[FireSoul]

I need more results.
-- Luc

[Kid Carrson]

A Mission Editor for SFC OP is clearly the top choice for me.  That's one of the biggest weaknesses of SFC OP versus earlier versions of the game.  

There are two, perhaps three or even more, sources to examine / pursue for an SFC OP Mission Editor and assistance in its development: 1) FMSE by Remus & Heaven's Eagle.  Their FMSE for EAW simply rocks!  They were planning on working on an OP version once a long time ago.  2) An EAW Mission Creator created by the Astonish Company.  Randy has already stated that he was willing to share his code to advance the cause for SFC OP.  3) What will Taldren be kind enough to release (assuming they haven't already released all that they can)?  Both in regards to draft releases of an FMSE for OP (if any) and issues pertaining to the Dynaverse.  The Mission Editor for OP might involve more diplomacy than anything else, just to get going.   How much help can you get from these three groups?  Can you get help from others, such as Dave (who's done quite a bit with scripting) to assist and provide input?    

OP Dynaverse fixes/improvements would be extremely welcome.   Can those who are working on the code now be allowed to let you access more of it, especially since you might have some time, and clearly have the skills?

Personally, I'd like to have the D2 operate so that all 16 races (8 major races and 8 pirate races) operated on a singel level.   Then, a program that could let use easily modify assumptions as to alliances, race strength, etc.  Why?  Because Modders of the game could then do so much more with it.   And the closer we move in that direction the closer we can get to GAW, or a diverse representation of a full fledged TNG universe, or whatever.  

BTW, thanks for all of your efforts.  OP is simply the version of SFC OP that offers the most potential.  I hope that members of the community, combined with the wonderful help of Taldren and other powers that be, can help make its potential  be realized.  Many of us do sincerely appreciate all of your efforts on OP.  

Kid Carrson

 

[3dot14]

Quote:
well..
.. get me the sources to FMSE and then maybe...

-- Luc  

http://www.amusing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10&start=15

Here is the relevant link.

You may not get FSME, since I think HE and remus are both out of the scene.

But you can at least get Commodore/Admiral's source codes.

Put me down for an OP mission editor request.

[FireSoul]

.. well.. help me get sources. ;>
-- Luc

[**DONOTDELETE**]

IIRC Taldren no has the rights to ship edit and FMSE.....Ask Erik

[mdutr0]

Dude.  This is cool. I had no idea that this project was under way. i have been reduced to monosyllabic words.

have you considered replacing a pirate race or two with the tholians and/or the andros?

thnaks for all the hard work.

Micah

[FireSoul]

It's been thought of..
.. but since a lot of the important things these races need can't be reproduced..

ie:
disdev: ships can't be moved around like that, even in scripting. (AFAIK)
pinwheel: there's no docking implemented.
web: .. uhm.. through scripting I _guess_ it's possible to make ships go to a complete stop. But how would you prevent some weaponry from passing through the web like it's supposed to?
PA Panels: .. I _guess_ it could be scripted that a certain amount of damage has to be absorbed before internal damage can occur. But it would be directionless, and I don't think we could simulate a 'cascade'.

.. these important details about those races ..  .. it's an excellent idea, but I think i'll have to pass.

-- Luc

[mdutr0]

 Yeah, I can see that you're right now. But that's beside the point, right now.

I Just downloaded your shiplist and it's awesome!!!!
You have breathed new life into one of my favorite games. I absolutely love what you've done with the Hydrans! The battle tugs are great - I've always wanted a phG boat with a side of fusions. I never new how cool SFB was!

Thanks for all your hard work, and keep it up.  I recommend this modification to any OP player who's tired of the same old same old - it's like having a brand new game!

Micah

p.s. What's the story behind battle tugs and tugs in general anyway? Are they supposed to look like normal heavy cruisers or are they more specialty ships? I am uninformed on SFB.....

[FireSoul]

Explain what the tugs look like...
I can do that.

The tugs themselves are very basic ships: usually lightly armed cruisers. However, they're equipped to "tow" pods or pallets.. and sometimes these pods/pallets aren't for cargo. In SFB, the tugs dock and undock the pallet to their hull.
For the purposes of SFC (since docking is not implemented), I've entered many various tug/pods combinations.

The weight of the pod(s) increase the movement cost of the ship. Check the movement cost and # of warps carefully!

Obviously, the SFC UI is incorrect as far as the ship's configuration. Pods are not shown since I have no such graphic to show. However, its weaponry is correct, and that's good enough for me.


F-TUG
Very much like a normal NCL, the F-TUG carries pods on its underbelly.
A more appropriate model/skin from the SFC2 War Refit Spacedock:
 
 

F-LTT
"Light Tactical Transport". It's a smaller cheaper tug. LTTs are usually based on WarDestroyers and may only carry 1 pod/pallet.

K-TGT/TGA
The K-TGT is a  "Transport Tug". It's lightly armed compared to the K-TGA. Although a single (cargo-only) pod may be carried, pods must be carried in pairs. These tugs are based on D6s, but are enhanced in some ways.
Pods in pairs are tucked under the wings and thus have access to front firing arc.
 

K-D5H: It's in the LTT class. It's a modified D5 which can tow a pod under it.

R-KRT: Purchased and modified klingon tug. Romulans never built 'tugs'. (they can't cloak well?) .. instead, they built ships with internal cargo capability. ie: R-SPH. R-PE, etc..

G-TUG: Can only carry a single pod, BEHIND the ship. Weapons don't have access to forward arcs. Pods are usually in the shape of an egg (chuckle). The Gorn BattleTug with refit (G-BT+) has 3 rear-facing plasma-Ss.

G-HDT (I think) is the LTT version of the Gorn tug, and is similar in towing pods behind it.

H-TUG:
Modified heavy cruiser. Can only tow a single pod, under the ship. (thus have access to forward arcs)

H-LTT: See LTTs.

etc..
etc..


Many types of pods are available to all tugs. All depend on year of availability.
ie: Battle Pod, CVA/PFT pod, Light Battle Pod, CVL Pod, Commando, Cargo..
.. I've not bothered entering a few pods.. as it would overwhelm the shiplist with a lot of junk. Maybe I'll change my mind?

Need more information? Each race's tugs are different. Pirates have no tugs.  


My personal favorites:
-  K-BTK : 8 disruptors, movement cost of 1, 6? droneracks, loaded with weapons, it's like it's an X-Ship.
-  L-BTF : 8 disruptors, movement cost of 1, 4 ESGs.. many many phaser-2s... and 2 PFs.
-  F-CVTH*.. : *24* Fed fighters, at the cost of a slow max speed of around 15. This is really a F-TUG with 2 pods in tow, the CVA pod and then the CVL pod behind it. The pods have ph-Gs, but each pod blocks arcs from the other. That's ok.. that's still 4 ph-Gs FX, and 2 ph-Gs RX.

* (I since found that it's really a CVTC and will be called as such in the next version of the shiplist)

-- Luc
PS: All tugs are real SFB ships. I didn't invent these.
 

[mdutr0]

 Cool, thanks for the info. They really add some flavor that has been lacking to the various races, as do the other new ships.

Micah

 

[Scipio_66]

There was a suggestion by .......... someone (my memory slips) that reversing all the empires/pirates in the shiplist would fix the cartel/emprie interaction problem on the D2 map.  That is, empires would affect each others hexes normally and would not need an allied cartel to raise the DV of their own hexes.  This edit should be a simple task, and if I were to work on anything for OP this would be my first step.

If the upcoming patch fixes the bug that prevents pirates from seeing their own DV, this shiplist edit would make the OP dynaverse very playable.


Now if you wanted to make an editor that would create (very basic) dynaverse missions, I might have to sell you my firstborn.

-S'Cipio

[Holocat]

I heard that too, on the OP fix radical Ideas welcomed thread, and it's essentially right;  Other than not being able to see the hex DV, pirate cartel hex squares work absolutely normally;  Alot of changes need to be done to flip the pirates and empires around, but it seems a relatively easy thing to do, if time consuming.

I've been goofing around with shipedit with SFC and SFC OP, and it seems you can have kustom graphics for ships including models.

mabey you should get together with all those older SFC modelers and come out with new class lines, like making battle tug and pocket/early dreads models for the eight mighty empires, and put another step forward in creating the SFB game you so dearly desire.  They've already got a bunch of those tugs out, for various ST modling styles (mostly TOS), but I think more TMP low polys need to be made.  with your knowledge of C++ and the OP API, you could probably even make it into a enourmous self installing exe...


Yar har har and a can of cat treats,

Holocat.

[FireSoul]

I have actually only a little bit of knowledge of C++.
I was just frustrated enough to give myself time and get familiar with the mission scripting API, the bugs, etc. I've toyed with the coopace script for a long time before anything else.

.. btw..
.. there are tractorable asteroids in the shiplist. Any ideas for a story based on this? .. maybe it could be turned into a mission:
 

-- Luc
 

[Holocat]

Those are also destroyable are they not?  I think those are the asteroids used in the command tutorials.

As for a mission based on them, I suppose I could get creative;  What do you want, exactly?  How complicated can it be?

[FireSoul]

Well know that damage can be prevented through scripting.
.. and collision could be simulated.
ie:
if (distance == 0)
  collision;

I guess what I am wondering is .. think we could create a scenario with this? .. maybe a D2 mission?
What would be the premise? The story?

-- Luc

[Holocat]

I warn you, you're asking a rather proliferate writer.  The short answer would be "Lots and lots I can think of."

A better answer would be "I don't know enough about scripting limitations to tell you what I would or wouldn't propose."

To be succinct, it's a rock.  It may mean nothing, but as a proliferate writer, you can do alot as long as you remember that a rock is also a plot device.

I also know enough about C++ so that if you want to talk shop, we can do that too.

Why, I ask, do you want a story about tractorable asteroids?  I mean, there are asteroids, nebulas, planets, and even *gasp* starships in this game, the starship being the rough equivlant to your protagonist/antagonist schtik.  

In conclusion, if you wish ideas about stories evolving around tractorable asteroids, I can write tons.  What I don't understand, is the true nature of the question;  Are you uncertian as to what tractorable asteroids can be scripted to do?  If that's the case, you know FAR, faaaaaaar better than I do, having the API under your belt.  If your asking if asteroids can become an important part of story telling, my answer is, 'Of course!' A good writer can make a compelling story out of rocks, or even oranges in nessisary.

The prolific writer who isn't writing a whole lot lately,

Holocat.  

Edit:  If you WANT me to write a mission involving tractorable asteroids, I can do that;  Tell me about API limitations (what one can and can't do in SFC OP) and i'll write as many mission proposals as you wish;  A campaign if you desire;  If got the time and the wild imagination. =)

2nd edit:  On top of that, I still say you should rag on some modelers for new, low poly class lines for all the nifty ships in your shiplist.