Topic: SFC:OP Ponderings: what should I work on next?

[FireSoul]

It's been thought of..
.. but since a lot of the important things these races need can't be reproduced..

ie:
disdev: ships can't be moved around like that, even in scripting. (AFAIK)
pinwheel: there's no docking implemented.
web: .. uhm.. through scripting I _guess_ it's possible to make ships go to a complete stop. But how would you prevent some weaponry from passing through the web like it's supposed to?
PA Panels: .. I _guess_ it could be scripted that a certain amount of damage has to be absorbed before internal damage can occur. But it would be directionless, and I don't think we could simulate a 'cascade'.

.. these important details about those races ..  .. it's an excellent idea, but I think i'll have to pass.

-- Luc

[mdutr0]

 Yeah, I can see that you're right now. But that's beside the point, right now.

I Just downloaded your shiplist and it's awesome!!!!
You have breathed new life into one of my favorite games. I absolutely love what you've done with the Hydrans! The battle tugs are great - I've always wanted a phG boat with a side of fusions. I never new how cool SFB was!

Thanks for all your hard work, and keep it up.  I recommend this modification to any OP player who's tired of the same old same old - it's like having a brand new game!

Micah

p.s. What's the story behind battle tugs and tugs in general anyway? Are they supposed to look like normal heavy cruisers or are they more specialty ships? I am uninformed on SFB.....

[FireSoul]

Explain what the tugs look like...
I can do that.

The tugs themselves are very basic ships: usually lightly armed cruisers. However, they're equipped to "tow" pods or pallets.. and sometimes these pods/pallets aren't for cargo. In SFB, the tugs dock and undock the pallet to their hull.
For the purposes of SFC (since docking is not implemented), I've entered many various tug/pods combinations.

The weight of the pod(s) increase the movement cost of the ship. Check the movement cost and # of warps carefully!

Obviously, the SFC UI is incorrect as far as the ship's configuration. Pods are not shown since I have no such graphic to show. However, its weaponry is correct, and that's good enough for me.


F-TUG
Very much like a normal NCL, the F-TUG carries pods on its underbelly.
A more appropriate model/skin from the SFC2 War Refit Spacedock:
 
 

F-LTT
"Light Tactical Transport". It's a smaller cheaper tug. LTTs are usually based on WarDestroyers and may only carry 1 pod/pallet.

K-TGT/TGA
The K-TGT is a  "Transport Tug". It's lightly armed compared to the K-TGA. Although a single (cargo-only) pod may be carried, pods must be carried in pairs. These tugs are based on D6s, but are enhanced in some ways.
Pods in pairs are tucked under the wings and thus have access to front firing arc.
 

K-D5H: It's in the LTT class. It's a modified D5 which can tow a pod under it.

R-KRT: Purchased and modified klingon tug. Romulans never built 'tugs'. (they can't cloak well?) .. instead, they built ships with internal cargo capability. ie: R-SPH. R-PE, etc..

G-TUG: Can only carry a single pod, BEHIND the ship. Weapons don't have access to forward arcs. Pods are usually in the shape of an egg (chuckle). The Gorn BattleTug with refit (G-BT+) has 3 rear-facing plasma-Ss.

G-HDT (I think) is the LTT version of the Gorn tug, and is similar in towing pods behind it.

H-TUG:
Modified heavy cruiser. Can only tow a single pod, under the ship. (thus have access to forward arcs)

H-LTT: See LTTs.

etc..
etc..


Many types of pods are available to all tugs. All depend on year of availability.
ie: Battle Pod, CVA/PFT pod, Light Battle Pod, CVL Pod, Commando, Cargo..
.. I've not bothered entering a few pods.. as it would overwhelm the shiplist with a lot of junk. Maybe I'll change my mind?

Need more information? Each race's tugs are different. Pirates have no tugs.  


My personal favorites:
-  K-BTK : 8 disruptors, movement cost of 1, 6? droneracks, loaded with weapons, it's like it's an X-Ship.
-  L-BTF : 8 disruptors, movement cost of 1, 4 ESGs.. many many phaser-2s... and 2 PFs.
-  F-CVTH*.. : *24* Fed fighters, at the cost of a slow max speed of around 15. This is really a F-TUG with 2 pods in tow, the CVA pod and then the CVL pod behind it. The pods have ph-Gs, but each pod blocks arcs from the other. That's ok.. that's still 4 ph-Gs FX, and 2 ph-Gs RX.

* (I since found that it's really a CVTC and will be called as such in the next version of the shiplist)

-- Luc
PS: All tugs are real SFB ships. I didn't invent these.
 

[mdutr0]

 Cool, thanks for the info. They really add some flavor that has been lacking to the various races, as do the other new ships.

Micah

 

[Scipio_66]

There was a suggestion by .......... someone (my memory slips) that reversing all the empires/pirates in the shiplist would fix the cartel/emprie interaction problem on the D2 map.  That is, empires would affect each others hexes normally and would not need an allied cartel to raise the DV of their own hexes.  This edit should be a simple task, and if I were to work on anything for OP this would be my first step.

If the upcoming patch fixes the bug that prevents pirates from seeing their own DV, this shiplist edit would make the OP dynaverse very playable.


Now if you wanted to make an editor that would create (very basic) dynaverse missions, I might have to sell you my firstborn.

-S'Cipio

[Holocat]

I heard that too, on the OP fix radical Ideas welcomed thread, and it's essentially right;  Other than not being able to see the hex DV, pirate cartel hex squares work absolutely normally;  Alot of changes need to be done to flip the pirates and empires around, but it seems a relatively easy thing to do, if time consuming.

I've been goofing around with shipedit with SFC and SFC OP, and it seems you can have kustom graphics for ships including models.

mabey you should get together with all those older SFC modelers and come out with new class lines, like making battle tug and pocket/early dreads models for the eight mighty empires, and put another step forward in creating the SFB game you so dearly desire.  They've already got a bunch of those tugs out, for various ST modling styles (mostly TOS), but I think more TMP low polys need to be made.  with your knowledge of C++ and the OP API, you could probably even make it into a enourmous self installing exe...


Yar har har and a can of cat treats,

Holocat.

[FireSoul]

I have actually only a little bit of knowledge of C++.
I was just frustrated enough to give myself time and get familiar with the mission scripting API, the bugs, etc. I've toyed with the coopace script for a long time before anything else.

.. btw..
.. there are tractorable asteroids in the shiplist. Any ideas for a story based on this? .. maybe it could be turned into a mission:
 

-- Luc
 

[Holocat]

Those are also destroyable are they not?  I think those are the asteroids used in the command tutorials.

As for a mission based on them, I suppose I could get creative;  What do you want, exactly?  How complicated can it be?

[FireSoul]

Well know that damage can be prevented through scripting.
.. and collision could be simulated.
ie:
if (distance == 0)
  collision;

I guess what I am wondering is .. think we could create a scenario with this? .. maybe a D2 mission?
What would be the premise? The story?

-- Luc

[Holocat]

I warn you, you're asking a rather proliferate writer.  The short answer would be "Lots and lots I can think of."

A better answer would be "I don't know enough about scripting limitations to tell you what I would or wouldn't propose."

To be succinct, it's a rock.  It may mean nothing, but as a proliferate writer, you can do alot as long as you remember that a rock is also a plot device.

I also know enough about C++ so that if you want to talk shop, we can do that too.

Why, I ask, do you want a story about tractorable asteroids?  I mean, there are asteroids, nebulas, planets, and even *gasp* starships in this game, the starship being the rough equivlant to your protagonist/antagonist schtik.  

In conclusion, if you wish ideas about stories evolving around tractorable asteroids, I can write tons.  What I don't understand, is the true nature of the question;  Are you uncertian as to what tractorable asteroids can be scripted to do?  If that's the case, you know FAR, faaaaaaar better than I do, having the API under your belt.  If your asking if asteroids can become an important part of story telling, my answer is, 'Of course!' A good writer can make a compelling story out of rocks, or even oranges in nessisary.

The prolific writer who isn't writing a whole lot lately,

Holocat.  

Edit:  If you WANT me to write a mission involving tractorable asteroids, I can do that;  Tell me about API limitations (what one can and can't do in SFC OP) and i'll write as many mission proposals as you wish;  A campaign if you desire;  If got the time and the wild imagination. =)

2nd edit:  On top of that, I still say you should rag on some modelers for new, low poly class lines for all the nifty ships in your shiplist.

[EmeraldEdge]

Well, there is always the standard "Oh, no!  There's a huge asteroid (asteroids) aimed right at our planet/base!" scenario where you have to tractor them and divert them enough off course that they won't hit (or destroy them?)  This was a mission in one of the SFC single player games, don't remember which, it was probably SFC1 I would guess.

Other than that, there are things like:

1 - Asteroid has mineral/something valuable that is needed by the empire and you must extract it from the asteroid (with enemies trying to do the same and stop you)  This could be the basis for a medication needed by a planet or something.

2 - The asteroid is carrying a virus and must be destroyed before it can come into a star system and potentially unleash even a small portion of what is ill on it.  

[Holocat]

Lessons in Politcs, or Things Blown Totally Out of Proportion:

The asteroid (given enough hitpoints) is found initally by the federation during a routine mineral sweep.  You determine two things:

1. it's toxic to most known life, because,

2. It's a space monster egg.

Instantly you get this:

1.  The feds want to study it.

2.  The klinks think Weapon of Mass Destruction.

3.  The romulans get suspicious. (gee, big suprise there)

4.  The hydrans (as I recall a sect of them worships monsters) want to put it in a pen and make it a big fuzzy pet.

Let's say you then have to move this 'egg' to someplace because it's its 'natural habitat'

1. Obviously, the feds being the flowery, ecosystem minded idealists they are, will assign a ship that would be much MUCH more useful on the front to move the egg over.

2.  Because it's toxic, it presents a danger to wherever you move it to AND move it through.  move it near an ally for increased plot effect.

--et. al, you can play this tom clancy meets gene rodenberry game for as many missions as you like.


I bet the API won't let me do this,

Holocat.
 

[FireSoul]

Interesting ideas..

.. I was thinking along the lines of:
"A densely populated is in our way. Take this rock and let it do its thing when it meets that planet's surface.
Oh, you have to bring it there yourself, and defend yourself while attempts to your life are being made.
Don't worry, we'll send some escorts with your to occupy them."

.. but you guys obviously have other ideas too.
I don't know if I'll *ever* end up writing this.. but I wanted to get the creative juices flowing in case someone else does.

.. as a plot device one can actually manipulate, there just doesn't seem to be enough missions with asteroids yet.

-- Luc

[Holocat]

There are never enough scripted missions ever for anything.  Whether the plot lasts for but a mission, whether it lasts for one's entire career in The Defense of Federation and Empire, the tales that can be told through this, alien electric media is both limitless and awe-inspiring.

To the storytellers, regardless of where or how their story is told,

Holocat.  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I'd like to request an attempt to simulate the campaign missions from SFC1.....I know they cant be ported over....but surely new scripts could be written with the same conditions,enemies, and goals.....and be event chained together....



 

[Maxillius]

I love the idea of tractorable rocks!!  But, as I recall, the tractorable version can also be flown through , so my idea of just laying them around as a terrain weapon wouldn't work.  Can anyone tell me if my memory on that has failed?    

[FireSoul]

Yes, but there's also a "OnDistance" event.. you make all objects obey range 0.0 as impact range through scripting.
-- Luc

[Holocat]

mabey you could make a goofy dodgeball arena, with asteroids and blackholes;  everyone gets a ship with no weapons, and the goal is to push the enemy team into asteroids/blackholes, or push asteroids onto the enemy team.

there's no end to the fun with tractorable asteroids.

All's well at the Asteroid Coral,

Holocat.

[FireSoul]

Well, the people have spoken:

.. review and fix single-player campaign it is. It also happens to be what I'm currently doing, already.
Currently doing: Mirak Campaign.
Done: Hydran (and others) vs ISC.
- fixed "uni_7battlegrave".
Done: Klingon vs Mirak.
- fixed: "uni_1desecration"
- fixed: "uni_7Gates"
- fixed: "uni_9Edge"

See  http://klingon.stasis.ca/EAW_missions/ for the updated missions, individually, the fixes I did, and the ZIP current package available to download.

-- Luc
FireSoul

[Kid Carrson]

Firesoul:

One mission that could be very useful and beneficial to me,and hopefully others, is the following:

     Take the existing SFC OP Multi-player Free for All Skirmish Mission and add one very important element: a TIME OF ENTRY INTO BATTLE component.  Allow for each of the (up to 6) groups of ships to have a time at which they come into battle.  Say player A and Player B enter at Time = 0:00.  Then Player C (an ally of A)  enters at Time = 20:00.  Then Player D (an ally of B) enters at Time = 30:00.  

     Adding a time element would allow for quite a lot of wonderful new twists for SFC OP missions.

     Thanks for the consideration.

KC