Topic: Another review of Galactica 2003

[Rat_Boy]

From Eclipse Magazine

Certainly sounds more cheerful than the Ain't It Cool News review a few weeks ago, but I'm still hedging my bets.

[Rat_Boy]

Anyone watch the Sci-Fi "documercial" about the new miniseries?  My resistance to it is starting to slip either because the new show looks good or Sci-Fi put on one good propaganda film.

[Death_Merchant]

I saw it.
Some things I liked, and some things made me cringe.

And one thing made me laugh out loud: The actress playing Starbuck, turning to the camera and saying, "I play Starbuck, deal with it."  

[EmeraldEdge]

There will undoubtedly be some cool things in the new series.  The graphics look GREAT, but is it Battlestar?  Couldn't they have left Battlestar alone, and told the same story?  Certainly they could have.  

[Rat_Boy]

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And one thing made me laugh out loud: The actress playing Starbuck, turning to the camera and saying, "I play Starbuck, deal with it."  

I thought her talk with Dirk Bennedict at a Starbucks shop was the best part of the whole show.

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There will undoubtedly be some cool things in the new series. The graphics look GREAT, but is it Battlestar? Couldn't they have left Battlestar alone, and told the same story? Certainly they could have.

Then they would've been accused of ripping off Galactica.  It's a lose-lose deal.

[EmeraldEdge]

I doubt that they would have been slammed too much about stealing from Galactica.  If the ships looked different, and the names were different.  I believe it was said they were going with a single planet rather than 12 colonies at one point, which would also have helped.  Man's creation comes back to kill them to the near point of extinction, isn't exactly Battlestar, not by a longshot.  Tons of series and sci-fi have a holocaust of some kind that forces "man" off their original world, but they aren't thought of as clones of Battlestar.  Since most of the "villains" look human, and if they had gone with a non-cylon looking metal villain (they are practically there anyway) I just dont' think it would have been there.  Different names, different look, different concept = different show.  

[CptCastrin]

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There will undoubtedly be some cool things in the new series.  The graphics look GREAT, but is it Battlestar?  Couldn't they have left Battlestar alone, and told the same story?  Certainly they could have.  

I don't see the issue of remaking BSG. I understand the angst of seeing many parts totally re-written and the back story changed but after reading many reviews (including the early, rabid, fan-boy ones) I can see that the story has more grittiness and realism. Sure thay could have "expanded" from the end of the existing series but post Aliens and other "hard" sciense movies / series ... I think fewer would be interested than you think.

BSG does not need to be turned into a BSG:TNG thing. Been there, done that. What I think is needed is a true to physics, realistic, space warfare flick. Several have tried and most have failed. But what BSG has that the others don't is a proven look / feel, the fans have proved that.

I have been a fence sitter on this but after watching the SciFi channel "the Lowdown" preview I now really look forward to the mini-series. It has that hard edge, real combat in space feel (and anyone that thinks that "bullets" in space is crap don't know physics) and the horrors that would cause. The viewing public are trired of seeing stuff that they know can't exisit in the next 10 - 20 years IMHO. Put an understandable weapon (rail guns, missle batteries, AA "cannons") on a ship in space and people see it for what it is, a warship  that is built and ready to kick some butt, and that is a cool thing to see and watch in action.

Dec 8 I'll be ready to give it the acid test ... it should be interesting.

   

[Javora]

The thing that bugged me about the new Galactica series is the whole "... but this time it's a girl !!!" mentally.  That whole male/female thing is way past old.  Also using the fact that men and women are in combat together now a days is no excuse to change the characters gender any more than that lame "Romeo and Juliet" excuse was.  Hello people every rendition of Romeo and Juliet that has ever been produced still had Romeo as a male and Juliet as a female.  I'm sorry but the reasons for changing the gender roles in the new Galactica is as flimsy as the reasons for canceling Farscape.

The other thing that caught my eye is that seine where the shell blows up after spinning around on the floor.  Now I know that shells in today?s navy can do that but in space?  The whole reason for rifled barrels is for better, more accurate range in an atmosphere.  I do not see any real advantage for a rifled barrel in a space conflict.

Who ever made the point about how the cylons came about is right.  The people making the series should have paid more attention to the old series.
 

[EmeraldEdge]

Well, not sure where the rifled barrels are, but if they are on the Vipers, that could be because they are meant for atmospheric flight as well as space flight, so they would need to be accurate there.

I don't mind an updating of technology and stuff.  I always applaud using more realistic physics, that isn't what bothers me.  The combat and stuff looked cool in the stuff I saw, it's the other things that I found bothered me.  In several reviews they comment on #6's spine glowing when she's having sex.  Now how lame is that?  Not exactly something you would expect to see in modern sci-fi.  More akin to some of the old corny stuff that is unwatchable.  Doesn't Baltar notice?  I mean, really.  

I also agree on the reason for changing the sex of the characters.  I dont' mind changing Boomer that much.  He was a supporting character, but I must agree that the reasoning for changing Starbuck seems pretty flimsy.  If they really wanted to go through that male/female dynamic, there were characters from the old series that were female pilots after a while, and I wouldn't have any problem with that character being a capable pilot right from the get go and having a larger role.

I think my biggest problem with bullets in space is the amount of cargo space supplies would take up.  Where do they store all the ammo?  What happens when they run out?  Can they reasonably hold enough ammo to stock all those fighters for battle after battle, as well as all the ammo for the rail guns, etc. and still have room for all the fighters, support equipment, etc.?  They are making a huge journey, now if they make that part of the story that's fine, but I bet it ends up being more of a Voyager thing.  They have unlimited unless someone wants to tell a story about it early on, but it will quickly become a non-issue (and it would certainly be interesting if all the alien races they come across used the same size/shape/type of ordinance, wouldn't it?).  I'm all for being more realistic militarily, but the lack of computers on the bridge for some things "because they don't allow networked computers onboard military vessels".  Well, what about non-networked ones then?  Probably more effective than a grease pencil, I would imagine.  What's with corded phones everywhere?  That's certainly not modern tech, even for us, is it?

Anyway, my biggest beef is with what's been done to the story overall, and the characters within.  I still look forward to watching it, but at this point, from what I've read, I think a different direction would have been better.  

[Aldaron]

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  What's with corded phones everywhere?  That's certainly not modern tech, even for us, is it?

Anyway, my biggest beef is with what's been done to the story overall, and the characters within.  I still look forward to watching it, but at this point, from what I've read, I think a different direction would have been better.  

As a matter of fact yes the corded "phone" are modern. They don't use any electricity so if the ship loses power communications remain intact. Your voice supplies the power to send the message over the wires.

[EmeraldEdge]

Um, I believe that along the way, corded phones do actually use electricity, do they not?  they are just not attached to the normal electric network.   The voice doesn't actually power the phone, but it is taken and amplified by the microphone in the reciever, then sent down the line in various forms, through wires.  The distance the voice travels in a phone line, would require amplification otherwise you end up with a short range string and tin can situation, don't you?  The lines could be severed as well, so loss of power to the phone system, or loss of line connection could dump the communications.  One would assume that a ship like that would have a backup power system (at least one) to maintain power to vital systems during a main power outage anyway.  If all systems were to go down, you've probably got a lot more to worry about I'd imagine.  

[hobbesmaster]

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Um, I believe that along the way, corded phones do actually use electricity, do they not?  they are just not attached to the normal electric network.   The voice doesn't actually power the phone, but it is taken and amplified by the microphone in the reciever, then sent down the line in various forms, through wires.  The distance the voice travels in a phone line, would require amplification otherwise you end up with a short range string and tin can situation, don't you?  The lines could be severed as well, so loss of power to the phone system, or loss of line connection could dump the communications.  One would assume that a ship like that would have a backup power system (at least one) to maintain power to vital systems during a main power outage anyway.  If all systems were to go down, you've probably got a lot more to worry about I'd imagine.  

I'd imagine they'd be concerned about jamming with a wireless communications system; especially during boarding actions.  

[EmeraldEdge]

Yeah, I could buy that reasoning, but combined with the grease pencil thing and lack of tech because "Adama doesn't want it" (There was a stated effort to make the show more realistic to our military, do captains of ships get to deny an order to bring their ship in for upgrades?), it kind of spells out trying to make it look a certain way.  

[Rat_Boy]

From here:

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The first battlestars were intentionally designed to be low tech; phones with cords, manually operated doors and valves, and the most basic computer systems (none of them are networked together), all designed to operate in combat against an enemy who could infiltrate and disrupt all but the most basic systems.

[BortaS]

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Yeah, I could buy that reasoning, but combined with the grease pencil thing and lack of tech because "Adama doesn't want it" (There was a stated effort to make the show more realistic to our military, do captains of ships get to deny an order to bring their ship in for upgrades?), it kind of spells out trying to make it look a certain way.    

Their website said things had to be low tech because of the cylon's ability to infiltrate technology.  If you keep anything in a computer, the cylon's will be able to get into it.  So the grease pencils and corded phones and no ship wide computer networks are just a security measure.

[EmeraldEdge]

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Following the defeat of the Cylons, the Colonial Fleet built a new second generation battlestar with the Galactica being the first of the new battlestars replacing the original Galactica.

From the same page.  Thus the battlestar in the new series isn't one of the first (which are the ones described as being so low tech), it's actually a second generation Battlestar.  Additinally, there was comment about how Adama had not allowed advanced Tech upgrades on the new Galactica, it should be noted that he isn't an admiral, and is supposed to be a "relic", why would he be allowed to dictate such a thing rather than having to follow orders and bring his ship in for upgrades (additionally, it was said that the Galactica was the first of the second gen/high tech Battlestars, so it should have been built with the high tech in it alread, especially since the Cylons wars were over at the time)  Now, supposedly they still have computers onboard, but "the most basic" systems.  Couldn't they Cylons just invade the important ones, if they have such remote infiltration capabilities?

The Colonial fleet eventually had 120 Battlestars at the time of the Cylon "sneak attack".  Interesting that a single battestar with most of it's heavies discharged and half the ship turned into a museum would have a fighting chance then.  Weren't there just 12 in the original series?  Seems a little more believable, imo.  

[Aldaron]

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Um, I believe that along the way, corded phones do actually use electricity, do they not?  they are just not attached to the normal electric network.   The voice doesn't actually power the phone, but it is taken and amplified by the microphone in the reciever, then sent down the line in various forms, through wires.  The distance the voice travels in a phone line, would require amplification otherwise you end up with a short range string and tin can situation, don't you?  The lines could be severed as well, so loss of power to the phone system, or loss of line connection could dump the communications.  One would assume that a ship like that would have a backup power system (at least one) to maintain power to vital systems during a main power outage anyway.  If all systems were to go down, you've probably got a lot more to worry about I'd imagine.  

No they don't and yes the voice powers the phone.

http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/60186004/spcc1.htm

And they look like telephones too not just the headset types. I know, I was on Coast Guard ships and used them every day. No reason to replace what works. If the line gets severed just move to another hookup and you are back in communications.  Also another advantage is if the mouthpeice stops working you can use the earpiece to talk and listen moving it back and forth between mouth and ear and saying over when you are done talking so the person on the other side knows that they can now talk and you are listening, etc.

[hobbesmaster]

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 Additinally, there was comment about how Adama had not allowed advanced Tech upgrades on the new Galactica, it should be noted that he isn't an admiral, and is supposed to be a "relic", why would he be allowed to dictate such a thing rather than having to follow orders and bring his ship in for upgrades

That didn't stop Kirk in ST:VI.  

[Blyre]

Wanna go get me some batteries for the sound powered phones, Aldaron?

Wallace
 
P.S. I think they are referring to those other phones....

 

[Aldaron]

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Wanna go get me some batteries for the sound powered phones, Aldaron?

Wallace
 
P.S. I think they are referring to those other phones....

   

LOL, never fell for that one or any of the others

[Javora]

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Well, not sure where the rifled barrels are, but if they are on the Vipers, that could be because they are meant for atmospheric flight as well as space flight, so they would need to be accurate there.

I don't mind an updating of technology and stuff.  I always applaud using more realistic physics, that isn't what bothers me.  The combat and stuff looked cool in the stuff I saw, it's the other things that I found bothered me.  In several reviews they comment on #6's spine glowing when she's having sex.  Now how lame is that?  Not exactly something you would expect to see in modern sci-fi.  More akin to some of the old corny stuff that is unwatchable.  Doesn't Baltar notice?  I mean, really.  

I also agree on the reason for changing the sex of the characters.  I dont' mind changing Boomer that much.  He was a supporting character, but I must agree that the reasoning for changing Starbuck seems pretty flimsy.  If they really wanted to go through that male/female dynamic, there were characters from the old series that were female pilots after a while, and I wouldn't have any problem with that character being a capable pilot right from the get go and having a larger role.

I think my biggest problem with bullets in space is the amount of cargo space supplies would take up.  

Anyway, my biggest beef is with what's been done to the story overall, and the characters within.  I still look forward to watching it, but at this point, from what I've read, I think a different direction would have been better.  

I agree with most of that, but the shell rolling around on the floor of the Galactica looked way to big to be used on a Viper.  By the way did anyone notice that the person playing the new role of Boomer is Linda "Hoshi" Park little sister?
 

[EmeraldEdge]

K, I wasn't aware of the voice powered phone, I only knew about the phones we all use everyday, which do require a current.  That voice powered phone was a good read, it is interesting that the range is 5 miles, which of course is more than enough to span the length of the Battlestar.  Do current naval vessels use these types of phones?  I only saw reference to using these phones in industrial plants, and for visitation phones in correctional facilities.  The funny thing is I read a thing talking about how BG wasn't going to go for a retro look.   Hmmm.

All this being said, I am going to give the show a chance, I do want to see it.  Heck, I gave Enterprise a chance, and have enjoyed it (for the most part, but some of it is pretty hard to stomach).  I happen to think it's the best crew overall since the original series, despite lazy writing and constantly repeated plots, but the way some of the Battlestar stuff looks parts are going to be a groaner at best.  Hopefully that won't happen.  When I first heard what actors were attached to it (Olmos and McDonnel) I was kind of excited.  But reading and seeing more and more has me worried.  Kind of like the build up to SFC3 and other things.  Some stuff sounded good, a little excitement, but the more that comes out the more frightening things look.  Anyway, we'll find out soon enough I guess.  

[762]

So let me get this straight...

1) Cylons were created by humans? Lame.   Hasn't that theme been utterly beaten to death?

2) The war has been going for a whole 40 years now? Wow!  

[TalonClaw]

It's not that they don't use electricity.  What they don't use is sophisticated computers.  Anything controlled by a computer chip can be reprogrammed and subject to attack.  That's why the new fighters failed.  The guidance system is used by the Cylons to shut down the fighters.  The Galactica is an old ship and doesn't have all that fancy computer tech.  Their fighters were the new ones though and are disabled.  Lucky they have some of the old style fighters in the museum hanger that still work and can not be shut down by the Cylons.

 

[CptCastrin]

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So let me get this straight...

1) Cylons were created by humans? Lame.   Hasn't that theme been utterly beaten to death?

Hasen't the whole "strange alien race has come to destroy us for no good reason other than they are ____ and we are human" plot device been beat to death too? I.e. the whole primis of Battlestar Galactica, the original series. In SciFi writing there is little that hasn't been done and been over and over and over again.

The current, popular, theme for scifi movies is the whole "technology run amuck" plot style as apposed to the "alien invasion" style but you can see examples of both curently. BSG is just using that instead of the original but both pretty much play the same in my book so it's a wash.

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2) The war has been going for a whole 40 years now? Wow!    

How long is long enough? WW2 lasted 6 years (roughly) and destroyed 2 countries, guted 2 others and changed the economic landscape for over 40 years. WW1 was only 4 years and did basically the same thing (though the effects were shorter or longer depending on ones opinion) in less time.

Using a ST/SFB comparison the General War lasted 14 years and ended only after all sides were exausted and there was little point in continuing.  

Or are you saying that 40 years is TOO long. On that I'd probably agree. I'm rather supprised to see 40 years as the length as in my mind there would be little left of industry or normal consumer goods and standard living condition levels would likely be low for the most part. 40 years of war would suck an economy dry, even a interstellar one IMHO.

   

[Rat_Boy]

The Dominion War was only two yarns...er...years.  In my timeline, the War of Pacification was also two years or so, and the Andromedan Invasion is three years.

[Death_Merchant]

I believe that complaint about a 40-50 year war in the miniseries is that it was 1000 yahrens in the original.  

[762]

What DM said. The Lizards-making-robots-that-killed-them-and-now-want-to-kill-us schtick is at least a new twist on the alien conquest theme, which still has not been beaten to death as badly as the Blade Runner/Terminator/Matrix/insertyourfavorite60'sscifistoryhere theme.

The 1000 yahren history of the war may have seemed a little fantastic, but it gives you a yearning to learn more about the history of said war. Ditto the  Galactica itself, which has supposedly been around for 600 or so years herself.

40 years? Yawn.

[CptCastrin]

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I believe that complaint about a 40-50 year war in the miniseries is that it was 1000 yahrens in the original.  

D'oh! Forgot about that ... but what is a "yahrens"? Did they ever define it as a "year" or was it just some doppy "stardate" rip off? Honestly I'm not a fan boy of BSG (though I do like it) so I'm hopeful that some one can answer that.

   

[CptCastrin]

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What DM said. The Lizards-making-robots-that-killed-them-and-now-want-to-kill-us schtick is at least a new twist on the alien conquest theme, which still has not been beaten to death as badly as the Blade Runner/Terminator/Matrix/insertyourfavorite60'sscifistoryhere theme.

The "lizard" theory was mostly fanboy stuff. AFAIK the cylons were always cybernectic / robotic in nature and didn't have any lizard inside piloting it around. Now there was one thing that fed the lizard theory and that was the look of the "Imperious Leader". I won't get into the counter theories but I can understand where they all came from. Guess that's what you get for only having 1 season to draw from.  

As for one being over done than the other, that's an opinion. Remember there is more than just the last 10 years to draw from (though I see a nod to the 60s pulf horror / scifi films). However I will take exception to the inclusion of Blade Runner in that list, it never refered to the replicates as wanting to take over Earth. The rest are fine though.  

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The 1000 yahren history of the war may have seemed a little fantastic, but it gives you a yearning to learn more about the history of said war. Ditto the  Galactica itself, which has supposedly been around for 600 or so years herself.

40 years? Yawn.  

Well I give you that but then in the 70's no one had heard of "space junk" and the damamge it could cause. Nor had there been any real scentific information on what kind of ware and tear objects take when travaling through open space (orbital space is quite different than that which lies between earth and other planets).

But that's all just fine. 40 years or 400 yahren ... either works for me.

   

[BortaS]

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What DM said. The Lizards-making-robots-that-killed-them-and-now-want-to-kill-us schtick is at least a new twist on the alien conquest theme, which still has not been beaten to death as badly as the Blade Runner/Terminator/Matrix/insertyourfavorite60'sscifistoryhere theme.

The "lizard" theory was mostly fanboy stuff. AFAIK the cylons were always cybernectic / robotic in nature and didn't have any lizard inside piloting it around. Now there was one thing that fed the lizard theory and that was the look of the "Imperious Leader". I won't get into the counter theories but I can understand where they all came from. Guess that's what you get for only having 1 season to draw from.  

As for one being over done than the other, that's an opinion. Remember there is more than just the last 10 years to draw from (though I see a nod to the 60s pulf horror / scifi films). However I will take exception to the inclusion of Blade Runner in that list, it never refered to the replicates as wanting to take over Earth. The rest are fine though.  

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The 1000 yahren history of the war may have seemed a little fantastic, but it gives you a yearning to learn more about the history of said war. Ditto the  Galactica itself, which has supposedly been around for 600 or so years herself.

40 years? Yawn.  

Well I give you that but then in the 70's no one had heard of "space junk" and the damamge it could cause. Nor had there been any real scentific information on what kind of ware and tear objects take when travaling through open space (orbital space is quite different than that which lies between earth and other planets).

But that's all just fine. 40 years or 400 yahren ... either works for me.

     

There was an episode where they explained that the cylons were once reptiles and were killed by thier machines.   The imperial  leader according to books wore the skin of one of the lizards around his machine body.

[Death_Merchant]

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There was an episode where they explained that the cylons were once reptiles and were killed by thier machines.   The imperial  leader according to books wore the skin of one of the lizards around his machine body.  

I don't know about the second sentence, but the first was explained in a scene from the pilot (part 2 of "Saga of a Starworld" I believe). Apollo explained this to Boxey (his first of many stow-aways...) in a Land Ram on Carillon as they approached the casino.  

[EmeraldEdge]

Heh, it's been a while since I saw it, but I knew there was something official that told what the cylons were.  Funny, the guy couldn't even be bothered to watch the Pilot of the original series.  OUCH.  No wonder it strayed so far.  Looks like they didn't bother to give the original a chance at all.  

[S'Raek]

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<snip> Do current naval vessels use these types of phones?  I only saw reference to using these phones in industrial plants, and for visitation phones in correctional facilities.  </snip>  

Yes, current U.S. Navy vessels use sound powered phones.  Mainly for fire-fighting situations, but also for other types of inter-ship communications.  Many moons ago I used to get to sit in my squadron's ready room and listen to the chatter on the sound powered phones and record when our planes took off and landed.  (To track flight hours.)    

[Death_Merchant]

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Heh, it's been a while since I saw it, but I knew there was something official that told what the cylons were.  Funny, the guy couldn't even be bothered to watch the Pilot of the original series.  OUCH.  No wonder it strayed so far.  Looks like they didn't bother to give the original a chance at all.  

In "Lowdown" and in online interviews, Moore says he rewatched Saga and was struck by how dark and effective the first part (destruction of the Colonies and the initial exodus) was. He then criticized how quickly the Colonials seemed to forget all that and start gambling on Carillon. I guess he missed/forgot/didn't care about that small Apollo/Boxey scene with the short Cylon origin chat.

From http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/updates/extras/scifimag2.html
 "When I sat down and re-watched the original pilot," Moore says, "I was struck by the fact that, at its core, Galactica had a very, very dark premise. It may be the darkest premise of any pilot I've ever seen."

As in Moore's version, the original series begins with the destruction of its characters' entire civilization. "Our heroes are running away in the pilot," says Moore. "Their families are destroyed, their friends, their world. Everything they know has been destroyed by the Cylons, and they have to escape into these vessels and hunt for what might be a mythical planet for new hope."

Having established that dark premise, though, the original series seemed immediately to back away from it in favor of a more traditional action-adventure motif. "Even in the two-hour pilot, they play a couple beats of 'Oh my God, our homes are gone,' which are really pretty effective," says Moore. "But then the second half of the pilot is taken over by the casino planet, and everybody seems to have forgotten what happened just moments ago!"
 

[Rat_Boy]

Good news or bad news, depending on your opinion: TV Guide gushed over the new series, with one of their reviewers giving it a 9 out of ten and their pink movie section gives both hours 3 out of 4 stars.

[Rat_Boy]

From Eclipse Magazine

Certainly sounds more cheerful than the Ain't It Cool News review a few weeks ago, but I'm still hedging my bets.

[Rat_Boy]

Anyone watch the Sci-Fi "documercial" about the new miniseries?  My resistance to it is starting to slip either because the new show looks good or Sci-Fi put on one good propaganda film.

[Death_Merchant]

I saw it.
Some things I liked, and some things made me cringe.

And one thing made me laugh out loud: The actress playing Starbuck, turning to the camera and saying, "I play Starbuck, deal with it."  

[EmeraldEdge]

There will undoubtedly be some cool things in the new series.  The graphics look GREAT, but is it Battlestar?  Couldn't they have left Battlestar alone, and told the same story?  Certainly they could have.  

[Rat_Boy]

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And one thing made me laugh out loud: The actress playing Starbuck, turning to the camera and saying, "I play Starbuck, deal with it."  

I thought her talk with Dirk Bennedict at a Starbucks shop was the best part of the whole show.

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There will undoubtedly be some cool things in the new series. The graphics look GREAT, but is it Battlestar? Couldn't they have left Battlestar alone, and told the same story? Certainly they could have.

Then they would've been accused of ripping off Galactica.  It's a lose-lose deal.

[EmeraldEdge]

I doubt that they would have been slammed too much about stealing from Galactica.  If the ships looked different, and the names were different.  I believe it was said they were going with a single planet rather than 12 colonies at one point, which would also have helped.  Man's creation comes back to kill them to the near point of extinction, isn't exactly Battlestar, not by a longshot.  Tons of series and sci-fi have a holocaust of some kind that forces "man" off their original world, but they aren't thought of as clones of Battlestar.  Since most of the "villains" look human, and if they had gone with a non-cylon looking metal villain (they are practically there anyway) I just dont' think it would have been there.  Different names, different look, different concept = different show.  

[CptCastrin]

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There will undoubtedly be some cool things in the new series.  The graphics look GREAT, but is it Battlestar?  Couldn't they have left Battlestar alone, and told the same story?  Certainly they could have.  

I don't see the issue of remaking BSG. I understand the angst of seeing many parts totally re-written and the back story changed but after reading many reviews (including the early, rabid, fan-boy ones) I can see that the story has more grittiness and realism. Sure thay could have "expanded" from the end of the existing series but post Aliens and other "hard" sciense movies / series ... I think fewer would be interested than you think.

BSG does not need to be turned into a BSG:TNG thing. Been there, done that. What I think is needed is a true to physics, realistic, space warfare flick. Several have tried and most have failed. But what BSG has that the others don't is a proven look / feel, the fans have proved that.

I have been a fence sitter on this but after watching the SciFi channel "the Lowdown" preview I now really look forward to the mini-series. It has that hard edge, real combat in space feel (and anyone that thinks that "bullets" in space is crap don't know physics) and the horrors that would cause. The viewing public are trired of seeing stuff that they know can't exisit in the next 10 - 20 years IMHO. Put an understandable weapon (rail guns, missle batteries, AA "cannons") on a ship in space and people see it for what it is, a warship  that is built and ready to kick some butt, and that is a cool thing to see and watch in action.

Dec 8 I'll be ready to give it the acid test ... it should be interesting.

   

[Javora]

The thing that bugged me about the new Galactica series is the whole "... but this time it's a girl !!!" mentally.  That whole male/female thing is way past old.  Also using the fact that men and women are in combat together now a days is no excuse to change the characters gender any more than that lame "Romeo and Juliet" excuse was.  Hello people every rendition of Romeo and Juliet that has ever been produced still had Romeo as a male and Juliet as a female.  I'm sorry but the reasons for changing the gender roles in the new Galactica is as flimsy as the reasons for canceling Farscape.

The other thing that caught my eye is that seine where the shell blows up after spinning around on the floor.  Now I know that shells in today?s navy can do that but in space?  The whole reason for rifled barrels is for better, more accurate range in an atmosphere.  I do not see any real advantage for a rifled barrel in a space conflict.

Who ever made the point about how the cylons came about is right.  The people making the series should have paid more attention to the old series.
 

[EmeraldEdge]

Well, not sure where the rifled barrels are, but if they are on the Vipers, that could be because they are meant for atmospheric flight as well as space flight, so they would need to be accurate there.

I don't mind an updating of technology and stuff.  I always applaud using more realistic physics, that isn't what bothers me.  The combat and stuff looked cool in the stuff I saw, it's the other things that I found bothered me.  In several reviews they comment on #6's spine glowing when she's having sex.  Now how lame is that?  Not exactly something you would expect to see in modern sci-fi.  More akin to some of the old corny stuff that is unwatchable.  Doesn't Baltar notice?  I mean, really.  

I also agree on the reason for changing the sex of the characters.  I dont' mind changing Boomer that much.  He was a supporting character, but I must agree that the reasoning for changing Starbuck seems pretty flimsy.  If they really wanted to go through that male/female dynamic, there were characters from the old series that were female pilots after a while, and I wouldn't have any problem with that character being a capable pilot right from the get go and having a larger role.

I think my biggest problem with bullets in space is the amount of cargo space supplies would take up.  Where do they store all the ammo?  What happens when they run out?  Can they reasonably hold enough ammo to stock all those fighters for battle after battle, as well as all the ammo for the rail guns, etc. and still have room for all the fighters, support equipment, etc.?  They are making a huge journey, now if they make that part of the story that's fine, but I bet it ends up being more of a Voyager thing.  They have unlimited unless someone wants to tell a story about it early on, but it will quickly become a non-issue (and it would certainly be interesting if all the alien races they come across used the same size/shape/type of ordinance, wouldn't it?).  I'm all for being more realistic militarily, but the lack of computers on the bridge for some things "because they don't allow networked computers onboard military vessels".  Well, what about non-networked ones then?  Probably more effective than a grease pencil, I would imagine.  What's with corded phones everywhere?  That's certainly not modern tech, even for us, is it?

Anyway, my biggest beef is with what's been done to the story overall, and the characters within.  I still look forward to watching it, but at this point, from what I've read, I think a different direction would have been better.  

[Aldaron]

Quote:


  What's with corded phones everywhere?  That's certainly not modern tech, even for us, is it?

Anyway, my biggest beef is with what's been done to the story overall, and the characters within.  I still look forward to watching it, but at this point, from what I've read, I think a different direction would have been better.  

As a matter of fact yes the corded "phone" are modern. They don't use any electricity so if the ship loses power communications remain intact. Your voice supplies the power to send the message over the wires.

[EmeraldEdge]

Um, I believe that along the way, corded phones do actually use electricity, do they not?  they are just not attached to the normal electric network.   The voice doesn't actually power the phone, but it is taken and amplified by the microphone in the reciever, then sent down the line in various forms, through wires.  The distance the voice travels in a phone line, would require amplification otherwise you end up with a short range string and tin can situation, don't you?  The lines could be severed as well, so loss of power to the phone system, or loss of line connection could dump the communications.  One would assume that a ship like that would have a backup power system (at least one) to maintain power to vital systems during a main power outage anyway.  If all systems were to go down, you've probably got a lot more to worry about I'd imagine.  

[hobbesmaster]

Quote:
Um, I believe that along the way, corded phones do actually use electricity, do they not?  they are just not attached to the normal electric network.   The voice doesn't actually power the phone, but it is taken and amplified by the microphone in the reciever, then sent down the line in various forms, through wires.  The distance the voice travels in a phone line, would require amplification otherwise you end up with a short range string and tin can situation, don't you?  The lines could be severed as well, so loss of power to the phone system, or loss of line connection could dump the communications.  One would assume that a ship like that would have a backup power system (at least one) to maintain power to vital systems during a main power outage anyway.  If all systems were to go down, you've probably got a lot more to worry about I'd imagine.  

I'd imagine they'd be concerned about jamming with a wireless communications system; especially during boarding actions.  

[EmeraldEdge]

Yeah, I could buy that reasoning, but combined with the grease pencil thing and lack of tech because "Adama doesn't want it" (There was a stated effort to make the show more realistic to our military, do captains of ships get to deny an order to bring their ship in for upgrades?), it kind of spells out trying to make it look a certain way.  

[Rat_Boy]

From here:

Quote:
The first battlestars were intentionally designed to be low tech; phones with cords, manually operated doors and valves, and the most basic computer systems (none of them are networked together), all designed to operate in combat against an enemy who could infiltrate and disrupt all but the most basic systems.

[BortaS]

Quote:
Yeah, I could buy that reasoning, but combined with the grease pencil thing and lack of tech because "Adama doesn't want it" (There was a stated effort to make the show more realistic to our military, do captains of ships get to deny an order to bring their ship in for upgrades?), it kind of spells out trying to make it look a certain way.    

Their website said things had to be low tech because of the cylon's ability to infiltrate technology.  If you keep anything in a computer, the cylon's will be able to get into it.  So the grease pencils and corded phones and no ship wide computer networks are just a security measure.

[EmeraldEdge]

Quote:
Following the defeat of the Cylons, the Colonial Fleet built a new second generation battlestar with the Galactica being the first of the new battlestars replacing the original Galactica.

From the same page.  Thus the battlestar in the new series isn't one of the first (which are the ones described as being so low tech), it's actually a second generation Battlestar.  Additinally, there was comment about how Adama had not allowed advanced Tech upgrades on the new Galactica, it should be noted that he isn't an admiral, and is supposed to be a "relic", why would he be allowed to dictate such a thing rather than having to follow orders and bring his ship in for upgrades (additionally, it was said that the Galactica was the first of the second gen/high tech Battlestars, so it should have been built with the high tech in it alread, especially since the Cylons wars were over at the time)  Now, supposedly they still have computers onboard, but "the most basic" systems.  Couldn't they Cylons just invade the important ones, if they have such remote infiltration capabilities?

The Colonial fleet eventually had 120 Battlestars at the time of the Cylon "sneak attack".  Interesting that a single battestar with most of it's heavies discharged and half the ship turned into a museum would have a fighting chance then.  Weren't there just 12 in the original series?  Seems a little more believable, imo.  

[Aldaron]

Quote:
Um, I believe that along the way, corded phones do actually use electricity, do they not?  they are just not attached to the normal electric network.   The voice doesn't actually power the phone, but it is taken and amplified by the microphone in the reciever, then sent down the line in various forms, through wires.  The distance the voice travels in a phone line, would require amplification otherwise you end up with a short range string and tin can situation, don't you?  The lines could be severed as well, so loss of power to the phone system, or loss of line connection could dump the communications.  One would assume that a ship like that would have a backup power system (at least one) to maintain power to vital systems during a main power outage anyway.  If all systems were to go down, you've probably got a lot more to worry about I'd imagine.  

No they don't and yes the voice powers the phone.

http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/60186004/spcc1.htm

And they look like telephones too not just the headset types. I know, I was on Coast Guard ships and used them every day. No reason to replace what works. If the line gets severed just move to another hookup and you are back in communications.  Also another advantage is if the mouthpeice stops working you can use the earpiece to talk and listen moving it back and forth between mouth and ear and saying over when you are done talking so the person on the other side knows that they can now talk and you are listening, etc.

[hobbesmaster]

Quote:
 Additinally, there was comment about how Adama had not allowed advanced Tech upgrades on the new Galactica, it should be noted that he isn't an admiral, and is supposed to be a "relic", why would he be allowed to dictate such a thing rather than having to follow orders and bring his ship in for upgrades

That didn't stop Kirk in ST:VI.  

[Blyre]

Wanna go get me some batteries for the sound powered phones, Aldaron?

Wallace
 
P.S. I think they are referring to those other phones....

 

[Aldaron]

Quote:
Wanna go get me some batteries for the sound powered phones, Aldaron?

Wallace
 
P.S. I think they are referring to those other phones....

   

LOL, never fell for that one or any of the others

[Javora]

Quote:
Well, not sure where the rifled barrels are, but if they are on the Vipers, that could be because they are meant for atmospheric flight as well as space flight, so they would need to be accurate there.

I don't mind an updating of technology and stuff.  I always applaud using more realistic physics, that isn't what bothers me.  The combat and stuff looked cool in the stuff I saw, it's the other things that I found bothered me.  In several reviews they comment on #6's spine glowing when she's having sex.  Now how lame is that?  Not exactly something you would expect to see in modern sci-fi.  More akin to some of the old corny stuff that is unwatchable.  Doesn't Baltar notice?  I mean, really.  

I also agree on the reason for changing the sex of the characters.  I dont' mind changing Boomer that much.  He was a supporting character, but I must agree that the reasoning for changing Starbuck seems pretty flimsy.  If they really wanted to go through that male/female dynamic, there were characters from the old series that were female pilots after a while, and I wouldn't have any problem with that character being a capable pilot right from the get go and having a larger role.

I think my biggest problem with bullets in space is the amount of cargo space supplies would take up.  

Anyway, my biggest beef is with what's been done to the story overall, and the characters within.  I still look forward to watching it, but at this point, from what I've read, I think a different direction would have been better.  

I agree with most of that, but the shell rolling around on the floor of the Galactica looked way to big to be used on a Viper.  By the way did anyone notice that the person playing the new role of Boomer is Linda "Hoshi" Park little sister?
 

[EmeraldEdge]

K, I wasn't aware of the voice powered phone, I only knew about the phones we all use everyday, which do require a current.  That voice powered phone was a good read, it is interesting that the range is 5 miles, which of course is more than enough to span the length of the Battlestar.  Do current naval vessels use these types of phones?  I only saw reference to using these phones in industrial plants, and for visitation phones in correctional facilities.  The funny thing is I read a thing talking about how BG wasn't going to go for a retro look.   Hmmm.

All this being said, I am going to give the show a chance, I do want to see it.  Heck, I gave Enterprise a chance, and have enjoyed it (for the most part, but some of it is pretty hard to stomach).  I happen to think it's the best crew overall since the original series, despite lazy writing and constantly repeated plots, but the way some of the Battlestar stuff looks parts are going to be a groaner at best.  Hopefully that won't happen.  When I first heard what actors were attached to it (Olmos and McDonnel) I was kind of excited.  But reading and seeing more and more has me worried.  Kind of like the build up to SFC3 and other things.  Some stuff sounded good, a little excitement, but the more that comes out the more frightening things look.  Anyway, we'll find out soon enough I guess.  

[762]

So let me get this straight...

1) Cylons were created by humans? Lame.   Hasn't that theme been utterly beaten to death?

2) The war has been going for a whole 40 years now? Wow!  

[TalonClaw]

It's not that they don't use electricity.  What they don't use is sophisticated computers.  Anything controlled by a computer chip can be reprogrammed and subject to attack.  That's why the new fighters failed.  The guidance system is used by the Cylons to shut down the fighters.  The Galactica is an old ship and doesn't have all that fancy computer tech.  Their fighters were the new ones though and are disabled.  Lucky they have some of the old style fighters in the museum hanger that still work and can not be shut down by the Cylons.

 

[CptCastrin]

Quote:
So let me get this straight...

1) Cylons were created by humans? Lame.   Hasn't that theme been utterly beaten to death?

Hasen't the whole "strange alien race has come to destroy us for no good reason other than they are ____ and we are human" plot device been beat to death too? I.e. the whole primis of Battlestar Galactica, the original series. In SciFi writing there is little that hasn't been done and been over and over and over again.

The current, popular, theme for scifi movies is the whole "technology run amuck" plot style as apposed to the "alien invasion" style but you can see examples of both curently. BSG is just using that instead of the original but both pretty much play the same in my book so it's a wash.

Quote:
2) The war has been going for a whole 40 years now? Wow!    

How long is long enough? WW2 lasted 6 years (roughly) and destroyed 2 countries, guted 2 others and changed the economic landscape for over 40 years. WW1 was only 4 years and did basically the same thing (though the effects were shorter or longer depending on ones opinion) in less time.

Using a ST/SFB comparison the General War lasted 14 years and ended only after all sides were exausted and there was little point in continuing.  

Or are you saying that 40 years is TOO long. On that I'd probably agree. I'm rather supprised to see 40 years as the length as in my mind there would be little left of industry or normal consumer goods and standard living condition levels would likely be low for the most part. 40 years of war would suck an economy dry, even a interstellar one IMHO.

   

[Rat_Boy]

The Dominion War was only two yarns...er...years.  In my timeline, the War of Pacification was also two years or so, and the Andromedan Invasion is three years.

[Death_Merchant]

I believe that complaint about a 40-50 year war in the miniseries is that it was 1000 yahrens in the original.  

[762]

What DM said. The Lizards-making-robots-that-killed-them-and-now-want-to-kill-us schtick is at least a new twist on the alien conquest theme, which still has not been beaten to death as badly as the Blade Runner/Terminator/Matrix/insertyourfavorite60'sscifistoryhere theme.

The 1000 yahren history of the war may have seemed a little fantastic, but it gives you a yearning to learn more about the history of said war. Ditto the  Galactica itself, which has supposedly been around for 600 or so years herself.

40 years? Yawn.

[CptCastrin]

Quote:
I believe that complaint about a 40-50 year war in the miniseries is that it was 1000 yahrens in the original.  

D'oh! Forgot about that ... but what is a "yahrens"? Did they ever define it as a "year" or was it just some doppy "stardate" rip off? Honestly I'm not a fan boy of BSG (though I do like it) so I'm hopeful that some one can answer that.

   

[CptCastrin]

Quote:
What DM said. The Lizards-making-robots-that-killed-them-and-now-want-to-kill-us schtick is at least a new twist on the alien conquest theme, which still has not been beaten to death as badly as the Blade Runner/Terminator/Matrix/insertyourfavorite60'sscifistoryhere theme.

The "lizard" theory was mostly fanboy stuff. AFAIK the cylons were always cybernectic / robotic in nature and didn't have any lizard inside piloting it around. Now there was one thing that fed the lizard theory and that was the look of the "Imperious Leader". I won't get into the counter theories but I can understand where they all came from. Guess that's what you get for only having 1 season to draw from.  

As for one being over done than the other, that's an opinion. Remember there is more than just the last 10 years to draw from (though I see a nod to the 60s pulf horror / scifi films). However I will take exception to the inclusion of Blade Runner in that list, it never refered to the replicates as wanting to take over Earth. The rest are fine though.  

Quote:
The 1000 yahren history of the war may have seemed a little fantastic, but it gives you a yearning to learn more about the history of said war. Ditto the  Galactica itself, which has supposedly been around for 600 or so years herself.

40 years? Yawn.  

Well I give you that but then in the 70's no one had heard of "space junk" and the damamge it could cause. Nor had there been any real scentific information on what kind of ware and tear objects take when travaling through open space (orbital space is quite different than that which lies between earth and other planets).

But that's all just fine. 40 years or 400 yahren ... either works for me.

   

[BortaS]

Quote:

Quote:
What DM said. The Lizards-making-robots-that-killed-them-and-now-want-to-kill-us schtick is at least a new twist on the alien conquest theme, which still has not been beaten to death as badly as the Blade Runner/Terminator/Matrix/insertyourfavorite60'sscifistoryhere theme.

The "lizard" theory was mostly fanboy stuff. AFAIK the cylons were always cybernectic / robotic in nature and didn't have any lizard inside piloting it around. Now there was one thing that fed the lizard theory and that was the look of the "Imperious Leader". I won't get into the counter theories but I can understand where they all came from. Guess that's what you get for only having 1 season to draw from.  

As for one being over done than the other, that's an opinion. Remember there is more than just the last 10 years to draw from (though I see a nod to the 60s pulf horror / scifi films). However I will take exception to the inclusion of Blade Runner in that list, it never refered to the replicates as wanting to take over Earth. The rest are fine though.  

Quote:
The 1000 yahren history of the war may have seemed a little fantastic, but it gives you a yearning to learn more about the history of said war. Ditto the  Galactica itself, which has supposedly been around for 600 or so years herself.

40 years? Yawn.  

Well I give you that but then in the 70's no one had heard of "space junk" and the damamge it could cause. Nor had there been any real scentific information on what kind of ware and tear objects take when travaling through open space (orbital space is quite different than that which lies between earth and other planets).

But that's all just fine. 40 years or 400 yahren ... either works for me.

     

There was an episode where they explained that the cylons were once reptiles and were killed by thier machines.   The imperial  leader according to books wore the skin of one of the lizards around his machine body.

[Death_Merchant]

Quote:
There was an episode where they explained that the cylons were once reptiles and were killed by thier machines.   The imperial  leader according to books wore the skin of one of the lizards around his machine body.  

I don't know about the second sentence, but the first was explained in a scene from the pilot (part 2 of "Saga of a Starworld" I believe). Apollo explained this to Boxey (his first of many stow-aways...) in a Land Ram on Carillon as they approached the casino.  

[EmeraldEdge]

Heh, it's been a while since I saw it, but I knew there was something official that told what the cylons were.  Funny, the guy couldn't even be bothered to watch the Pilot of the original series.  OUCH.  No wonder it strayed so far.  Looks like they didn't bother to give the original a chance at all.  

[S'Raek]

Quote:
<snip> Do current naval vessels use these types of phones?  I only saw reference to using these phones in industrial plants, and for visitation phones in correctional facilities.  </snip>  

Yes, current U.S. Navy vessels use sound powered phones.  Mainly for fire-fighting situations, but also for other types of inter-ship communications.  Many moons ago I used to get to sit in my squadron's ready room and listen to the chatter on the sound powered phones and record when our planes took off and landed.  (To track flight hours.)    

[Death_Merchant]

Quote:
Heh, it's been a while since I saw it, but I knew there was something official that told what the cylons were.  Funny, the guy couldn't even be bothered to watch the Pilot of the original series.  OUCH.  No wonder it strayed so far.  Looks like they didn't bother to give the original a chance at all.  

In "Lowdown" and in online interviews, Moore says he rewatched Saga and was struck by how dark and effective the first part (destruction of the Colonies and the initial exodus) was. He then criticized how quickly the Colonials seemed to forget all that and start gambling on Carillon. I guess he missed/forgot/didn't care about that small Apollo/Boxey scene with the short Cylon origin chat.

From http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/updates/extras/scifimag2.html
 "When I sat down and re-watched the original pilot," Moore says, "I was struck by the fact that, at its core, Galactica had a very, very dark premise. It may be the darkest premise of any pilot I've ever seen."

As in Moore's version, the original series begins with the destruction of its characters' entire civilization. "Our heroes are running away in the pilot," says Moore. "Their families are destroyed, their friends, their world. Everything they know has been destroyed by the Cylons, and they have to escape into these vessels and hunt for what might be a mythical planet for new hope."

Having established that dark premise, though, the original series seemed immediately to back away from it in favor of a more traditional action-adventure motif. "Even in the two-hour pilot, they play a couple beats of 'Oh my God, our homes are gone,' which are really pretty effective," says Moore. "But then the second half of the pilot is taken over by the casino planet, and everybody seems to have forgotten what happened just moments ago!"
 

[Rat_Boy]

Good news or bad news, depending on your opinion: TV Guide gushed over the new series, with one of their reviewers giving it a 9 out of ten and their pink movie section gives both hours 3 out of 4 stars.

[Rat_Boy]

From Eclipse Magazine

Certainly sounds more cheerful than the Ain't It Cool News review a few weeks ago, but I'm still hedging my bets.

[Rat_Boy]

Anyone watch the Sci-Fi "documercial" about the new miniseries?  My resistance to it is starting to slip either because the new show looks good or Sci-Fi put on one good propaganda film.

[Death_Merchant]

I saw it.
Some things I liked, and some things made me cringe.

And one thing made me laugh out loud: The actress playing Starbuck, turning to the camera and saying, "I play Starbuck, deal with it."  

[EmeraldEdge]

There will undoubtedly be some cool things in the new series.  The graphics look GREAT, but is it Battlestar?  Couldn't they have left Battlestar alone, and told the same story?  Certainly they could have.  

[Rat_Boy]

Quote:
And one thing made me laugh out loud: The actress playing Starbuck, turning to the camera and saying, "I play Starbuck, deal with it."  

I thought her talk with Dirk Bennedict at a Starbucks shop was the best part of the whole show.

Quote:
There will undoubtedly be some cool things in the new series. The graphics look GREAT, but is it Battlestar? Couldn't they have left Battlestar alone, and told the same story? Certainly they could have.

Then they would've been accused of ripping off Galactica.  It's a lose-lose deal.

[EmeraldEdge]

I doubt that they would have been slammed too much about stealing from Galactica.  If the ships looked different, and the names were different.  I believe it was said they were going with a single planet rather than 12 colonies at one point, which would also have helped.  Man's creation comes back to kill them to the near point of extinction, isn't exactly Battlestar, not by a longshot.  Tons of series and sci-fi have a holocaust of some kind that forces "man" off their original world, but they aren't thought of as clones of Battlestar.  Since most of the "villains" look human, and if they had gone with a non-cylon looking metal villain (they are practically there anyway) I just dont' think it would have been there.  Different names, different look, different concept = different show.  

[CptCastrin]

Quote:
There will undoubtedly be some cool things in the new series.  The graphics look GREAT, but is it Battlestar?  Couldn't they have left Battlestar alone, and told the same story?  Certainly they could have.  

I don't see the issue of remaking BSG. I understand the angst of seeing many parts totally re-written and the back story changed but after reading many reviews (including the early, rabid, fan-boy ones) I can see that the story has more grittiness and realism. Sure thay could have "expanded" from the end of the existing series but post Aliens and other "hard" sciense movies / series ... I think fewer would be interested than you think.

BSG does not need to be turned into a BSG:TNG thing. Been there, done that. What I think is needed is a true to physics, realistic, space warfare flick. Several have tried and most have failed. But what BSG has that the others don't is a proven look / feel, the fans have proved that.

I have been a fence sitter on this but after watching the SciFi channel "the Lowdown" preview I now really look forward to the mini-series. It has that hard edge, real combat in space feel (and anyone that thinks that "bullets" in space is crap don't know physics) and the horrors that would cause. The viewing public are trired of seeing stuff that they know can't exisit in the next 10 - 20 years IMHO. Put an understandable weapon (rail guns, missle batteries, AA "cannons") on a ship in space and people see it for what it is, a warship  that is built and ready to kick some butt, and that is a cool thing to see and watch in action.

Dec 8 I'll be ready to give it the acid test ... it should be interesting.

   

[Javora]

The thing that bugged me about the new Galactica series is the whole "... but this time it's a girl !!!" mentally.  That whole male/female thing is way past old.  Also using the fact that men and women are in combat together now a days is no excuse to change the characters gender any more than that lame "Romeo and Juliet" excuse was.  Hello people every rendition of Romeo and Juliet that has ever been produced still had Romeo as a male and Juliet as a female.  I'm sorry but the reasons for changing the gender roles in the new Galactica is as flimsy as the reasons for canceling Farscape.

The other thing that caught my eye is that seine where the shell blows up after spinning around on the floor.  Now I know that shells in today?s navy can do that but in space?  The whole reason for rifled barrels is for better, more accurate range in an atmosphere.  I do not see any real advantage for a rifled barrel in a space conflict.

Who ever made the point about how the cylons came about is right.  The people making the series should have paid more attention to the old series.
 

[EmeraldEdge]

Well, not sure where the rifled barrels are, but if they are on the Vipers, that could be because they are meant for atmospheric flight as well as space flight, so they would need to be accurate there.

I don't mind an updating of technology and stuff.  I always applaud using more realistic physics, that isn't what bothers me.  The combat and stuff looked cool in the stuff I saw, it's the other things that I found bothered me.  In several reviews they comment on #6's spine glowing when she's having sex.  Now how lame is that?  Not exactly something you would expect to see in modern sci-fi.  More akin to some of the old corny stuff that is unwatchable.  Doesn't Baltar notice?  I mean, really.  

I also agree on the reason for changing the sex of the characters.  I dont' mind changing Boomer that much.  He was a supporting character, but I must agree that the reasoning for changing Starbuck seems pretty flimsy.  If they really wanted to go through that male/female dynamic, there were characters from the old series that were female pilots after a while, and I wouldn't have any problem with that character being a capable pilot right from the get go and having a larger role.

I think my biggest problem with bullets in space is the amount of cargo space supplies would take up.  Where do they store all the ammo?  What happens when they run out?  Can they reasonably hold enough ammo to stock all those fighters for battle after battle, as well as all the ammo for the rail guns, etc. and still have room for all the fighters, support equipment, etc.?  They are making a huge journey, now if they make that part of the story that's fine, but I bet it ends up being more of a Voyager thing.  They have unlimited unless someone wants to tell a story about it early on, but it will quickly become a non-issue (and it would certainly be interesting if all the alien races they come across used the same size/shape/type of ordinance, wouldn't it?).  I'm all for being more realistic militarily, but the lack of computers on the bridge for some things "because they don't allow networked computers onboard military vessels".  Well, what about non-networked ones then?  Probably more effective than a grease pencil, I would imagine.  What's with corded phones everywhere?  That's certainly not modern tech, even for us, is it?

Anyway, my biggest beef is with what's been done to the story overall, and the characters within.  I still look forward to watching it, but at this point, from what I've read, I think a different direction would have been better.  

[Aldaron]

Quote:


  What's with corded phones everywhere?  That's certainly not modern tech, even for us, is it?

Anyway, my biggest beef is with what's been done to the story overall, and the characters within.  I still look forward to watching it, but at this point, from what I've read, I think a different direction would have been better.  

As a matter of fact yes the corded "phone" are modern. They don't use any electricity so if the ship loses power communications remain intact. Your voice supplies the power to send the message over the wires.

[EmeraldEdge]

Um, I believe that along the way, corded phones do actually use electricity, do they not?  they are just not attached to the normal electric network.   The voice doesn't actually power the phone, but it is taken and amplified by the microphone in the reciever, then sent down the line in various forms, through wires.  The distance the voice travels in a phone line, would require amplification otherwise you end up with a short range string and tin can situation, don't you?  The lines could be severed as well, so loss of power to the phone system, or loss of line connection could dump the communications.  One would assume that a ship like that would have a backup power system (at least one) to maintain power to vital systems during a main power outage anyway.  If all systems were to go down, you've probably got a lot more to worry about I'd imagine.  

[hobbesmaster]

Quote:
Um, I believe that along the way, corded phones do actually use electricity, do they not?  they are just not attached to the normal electric network.   The voice doesn't actually power the phone, but it is taken and amplified by the microphone in the reciever, then sent down the line in various forms, through wires.  The distance the voice travels in a phone line, would require amplification otherwise you end up with a short range string and tin can situation, don't you?  The lines could be severed as well, so loss of power to the phone system, or loss of line connection could dump the communications.  One would assume that a ship like that would have a backup power system (at least one) to maintain power to vital systems during a main power outage anyway.  If all systems were to go down, you've probably got a lot more to worry about I'd imagine.  

I'd imagine they'd be concerned about jamming with a wireless communications system; especially during boarding actions.  

[EmeraldEdge]

Yeah, I could buy that reasoning, but combined with the grease pencil thing and lack of tech because "Adama doesn't want it" (There was a stated effort to make the show more realistic to our military, do captains of ships get to deny an order to bring their ship in for upgrades?), it kind of spells out trying to make it look a certain way.  

[Rat_Boy]

From here:

Quote:
The first battlestars were intentionally designed to be low tech; phones with cords, manually operated doors and valves, and the most basic computer systems (none of them are networked together), all designed to operate in combat against an enemy who could infiltrate and disrupt all but the most basic systems.

[BortaS]

Quote:
Yeah, I could buy that reasoning, but combined with the grease pencil thing and lack of tech because "Adama doesn't want it" (There was a stated effort to make the show more realistic to our military, do captains of ships get to deny an order to bring their ship in for upgrades?), it kind of spells out trying to make it look a certain way.    

Their website said things had to be low tech because of the cylon's ability to infiltrate technology.  If you keep anything in a computer, the cylon's will be able to get into it.  So the grease pencils and corded phones and no ship wide computer networks are just a security measure.

[EmeraldEdge]

Quote:
Following the defeat of the Cylons, the Colonial Fleet built a new second generation battlestar with the Galactica being the first of the new battlestars replacing the original Galactica.

From the same page.  Thus the battlestar in the new series isn't one of the first (which are the ones described as being so low tech), it's actually a second generation Battlestar.  Additinally, there was comment about how Adama had not allowed advanced Tech upgrades on the new Galactica, it should be noted that he isn't an admiral, and is supposed to be a "relic", why would he be allowed to dictate such a thing rather than having to follow orders and bring his ship in for upgrades (additionally, it was said that the Galactica was the first of the second gen/high tech Battlestars, so it should have been built with the high tech in it alread, especially since the Cylons wars were over at the time)  Now, supposedly they still have computers onboard, but "the most basic" systems.  Couldn't they Cylons just invade the important ones, if they have such remote infiltration capabilities?

The Colonial fleet eventually had 120 Battlestars at the time of the Cylon "sneak attack".  Interesting that a single battestar with most of it's heavies discharged and half the ship turned into a museum would have a fighting chance then.  Weren't there just 12 in the original series?  Seems a little more believable, imo.  

[Aldaron]

Quote:
Um, I believe that along the way, corded phones do actually use electricity, do they not?  they are just not attached to the normal electric network.   The voice doesn't actually power the phone, but it is taken and amplified by the microphone in the reciever, then sent down the line in various forms, through wires.  The distance the voice travels in a phone line, would require amplification otherwise you end up with a short range string and tin can situation, don't you?  The lines could be severed as well, so loss of power to the phone system, or loss of line connection could dump the communications.  One would assume that a ship like that would have a backup power system (at least one) to maintain power to vital systems during a main power outage anyway.  If all systems were to go down, you've probably got a lot more to worry about I'd imagine.  

No they don't and yes the voice powers the phone.

http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/60186004/spcc1.htm

And they look like telephones too not just the headset types. I know, I was on Coast Guard ships and used them every day. No reason to replace what works. If the line gets severed just move to another hookup and you are back in communications.  Also another advantage is if the mouthpeice stops working you can use the earpiece to talk and listen moving it back and forth between mouth and ear and saying over when you are done talking so the person on the other side knows that they can now talk and you are listening, etc.

[hobbesmaster]

Quote:
 Additinally, there was comment about how Adama had not allowed advanced Tech upgrades on the new Galactica, it should be noted that he isn't an admiral, and is supposed to be a "relic", why would he be allowed to dictate such a thing rather than having to follow orders and bring his ship in for upgrades

That didn't stop Kirk in ST:VI.  

[Blyre]

Wanna go get me some batteries for the sound powered phones, Aldaron?

Wallace
 
P.S. I think they are referring to those other phones....

 

[Aldaron]

Quote:
Wanna go get me some batteries for the sound powered phones, Aldaron?

Wallace
 
P.S. I think they are referring to those other phones....

   

LOL, never fell for that one or any of the others

[Javora]

Quote:
Well, not sure where the rifled barrels are, but if they are on the Vipers, that could be because they are meant for atmospheric flight as well as space flight, so they would need to be accurate there.

I don't mind an updating of technology and stuff.  I always applaud using more realistic physics, that isn't what bothers me.  The combat and stuff looked cool in the stuff I saw, it's the other things that I found bothered me.  In several reviews they comment on #6's spine glowing when she's having sex.  Now how lame is that?  Not exactly something you would expect to see in modern sci-fi.  More akin to some of the old corny stuff that is unwatchable.  Doesn't Baltar notice?  I mean, really.  

I also agree on the reason for changing the sex of the characters.  I dont' mind changing Boomer that much.  He was a supporting character, but I must agree that the reasoning for changing Starbuck seems pretty flimsy.  If they really wanted to go through that male/female dynamic, there were characters from the old series that were female pilots after a while, and I wouldn't have any problem with that character being a capable pilot right from the get go and having a larger role.

I think my biggest problem with bullets in space is the amount of cargo space supplies would take up.  

Anyway, my biggest beef is with what's been done to the story overall, and the characters within.  I still look forward to watching it, but at this point, from what I've read, I think a different direction would have been better.  

I agree with most of that, but the shell rolling around on the floor of the Galactica looked way to big to be used on a Viper.  By the way did anyone notice that the person playing the new role of Boomer is Linda "Hoshi" Park little sister?
 

[EmeraldEdge]

K, I wasn't aware of the voice powered phone, I only knew about the phones we all use everyday, which do require a current.  That voice powered phone was a good read, it is interesting that the range is 5 miles, which of course is more than enough to span the length of the Battlestar.  Do current naval vessels use these types of phones?  I only saw reference to using these phones in industrial plants, and for visitation phones in correctional facilities.  The funny thing is I read a thing talking about how BG wasn't going to go for a retro look.   Hmmm.

All this being said, I am going to give the show a chance, I do want to see it.  Heck, I gave Enterprise a chance, and have enjoyed it (for the most part, but some of it is pretty hard to stomach).  I happen to think it's the best crew overall since the original series, despite lazy writing and constantly repeated plots, but the way some of the Battlestar stuff looks parts are going to be a groaner at best.  Hopefully that won't happen.  When I first heard what actors were attached to it (Olmos and McDonnel) I was kind of excited.  But reading and seeing more and more has me worried.  Kind of like the build up to SFC3 and other things.  Some stuff sounded good, a little excitement, but the more that comes out the more frightening things look.  Anyway, we'll find out soon enough I guess.  

[762]

So let me get this straight...

1) Cylons were created by humans? Lame.   Hasn't that theme been utterly beaten to death?

2) The war has been going for a whole 40 years now? Wow!  

[TalonClaw]

It's not that they don't use electricity.  What they don't use is sophisticated computers.  Anything controlled by a computer chip can be reprogrammed and subject to attack.  That's why the new fighters failed.  The guidance system is used by the Cylons to shut down the fighters.  The Galactica is an old ship and doesn't have all that fancy computer tech.  Their fighters were the new ones though and are disabled.  Lucky they have some of the old style fighters in the museum hanger that still work and can not be shut down by the Cylons.

 

[CptCastrin]

Quote:
So let me get this straight...

1) Cylons were created by humans? Lame.   Hasn't that theme been utterly beaten to death?

Hasen't the whole "strange alien race has come to destroy us for no good reason other than they are ____ and we are human" plot device been beat to death too? I.e. the whole primis of Battlestar Galactica, the original series. In SciFi writing there is little that hasn't been done and been over and over and over again.

The current, popular, theme for scifi movies is the whole "technology run amuck" plot style as apposed to the "alien invasion" style but you can see examples of both curently. BSG is just using that instead of the original but both pretty much play the same in my book so it's a wash.

Quote:
2) The war has been going for a whole 40 years now? Wow!    

How long is long enough? WW2 lasted 6 years (roughly) and destroyed 2 countries, guted 2 others and changed the economic landscape for over 40 years. WW1 was only 4 years and did basically the same thing (though the effects were shorter or longer depending on ones opinion) in less time.

Using a ST/SFB comparison the General War lasted 14 years and ended only after all sides were exausted and there was little point in continuing.  

Or are you saying that 40 years is TOO long. On that I'd probably agree. I'm rather supprised to see 40 years as the length as in my mind there would be little left of industry or normal consumer goods and standard living condition levels would likely be low for the most part. 40 years of war would suck an economy dry, even a interstellar one IMHO.

   

[Rat_Boy]

The Dominion War was only two yarns...er...years.  In my timeline, the War of Pacification was also two years or so, and the Andromedan Invasion is three years.

[Death_Merchant]

I believe that complaint about a 40-50 year war in the miniseries is that it was 1000 yahrens in the original.  

[762]

What DM said. The Lizards-making-robots-that-killed-them-and-now-want-to-kill-us schtick is at least a new twist on the alien conquest theme, which still has not been beaten to death as badly as the Blade Runner/Terminator/Matrix/insertyourfavorite60'sscifistoryhere theme.

The 1000 yahren history of the war may have seemed a little fantastic, but it gives you a yearning to learn more about the history of said war. Ditto the  Galactica itself, which has supposedly been around for 600 or so years herself.

40 years? Yawn.

[CptCastrin]

Quote:
I believe that complaint about a 40-50 year war in the miniseries is that it was 1000 yahrens in the original.  

D'oh! Forgot about that ... but what is a "yahrens"? Did they ever define it as a "year" or was it just some doppy "stardate" rip off? Honestly I'm not a fan boy of BSG (though I do like it) so I'm hopeful that some one can answer that.

   

[CptCastrin]

Quote:
What DM said. The Lizards-making-robots-that-killed-them-and-now-want-to-kill-us schtick is at least a new twist on the alien conquest theme, which still has not been beaten to death as badly as the Blade Runner/Terminator/Matrix/insertyourfavorite60'sscifistoryhere theme.

The "lizard" theory was mostly fanboy stuff. AFAIK the cylons were always cybernectic / robotic in nature and didn't have any lizard inside piloting it around. Now there was one thing that fed the lizard theory and that was the look of the "Imperious Leader". I won't get into the counter theories but I can understand where they all came from. Guess that's what you get for only having 1 season to draw from.  

As for one being over done than the other, that's an opinion. Remember there is more than just the last 10 years to draw from (though I see a nod to the 60s pulf horror / scifi films). However I will take exception to the inclusion of Blade Runner in that list, it never refered to the replicates as wanting to take over Earth. The rest are fine though.  

Quote:
The 1000 yahren history of the war may have seemed a little fantastic, but it gives you a yearning to learn more about the history of said war. Ditto the  Galactica itself, which has supposedly been around for 600 or so years herself.

40 years? Yawn.  

Well I give you that but then in the 70's no one had heard of "space junk" and the damamge it could cause. Nor had there been any real scentific information on what kind of ware and tear objects take when travaling through open space (orbital space is quite different than that which lies between earth and other planets).

But that's all just fine. 40 years or 400 yahren ... either works for me.

   

[BortaS]

Quote:

Quote:
What DM said. The Lizards-making-robots-that-killed-them-and-now-want-to-kill-us schtick is at least a new twist on the alien conquest theme, which still has not been beaten to death as badly as the Blade Runner/Terminator/Matrix/insertyourfavorite60'sscifistoryhere theme.

The "lizard" theory was mostly fanboy stuff. AFAIK the cylons were always cybernectic / robotic in nature and didn't have any lizard inside piloting it around. Now there was one thing that fed the lizard theory and that was the look of the "Imperious Leader". I won't get into the counter theories but I can understand where they all came from. Guess that's what you get for only having 1 season to draw from.  

As for one being over done than the other, that's an opinion. Remember there is more than just the last 10 years to draw from (though I see a nod to the 60s pulf horror / scifi films). However I will take exception to the inclusion of Blade Runner in that list, it never refered to the replicates as wanting to take over Earth. The rest are fine though.  

Quote:
The 1000 yahren history of the war may have seemed a little fantastic, but it gives you a yearning to learn more about the history of said war. Ditto the  Galactica itself, which has supposedly been around for 600 or so years herself.

40 years? Yawn.  

Well I give you that but then in the 70's no one had heard of "space junk" and the damamge it could cause. Nor had there been any real scentific information on what kind of ware and tear objects take when travaling through open space (orbital space is quite different than that which lies between earth and other planets).

But that's all just fine. 40 years or 400 yahren ... either works for me.

     

There was an episode where they explained that the cylons were once reptiles and were killed by thier machines.   The imperial  leader according to books wore the skin of one of the lizards around his machine body.

[Death_Merchant]

Quote:
There was an episode where they explained that the cylons were once reptiles and were killed by thier machines.   The imperial  leader according to books wore the skin of one of the lizards around his machine body.  

I don't know about the second sentence, but the first was explained in a scene from the pilot (part 2 of "Saga of a Starworld" I believe). Apollo explained this to Boxey (his first of many stow-aways...) in a Land Ram on Carillon as they approached the casino.  

[EmeraldEdge]

Heh, it's been a while since I saw it, but I knew there was something official that told what the cylons were.  Funny, the guy couldn't even be bothered to watch the Pilot of the original series.  OUCH.  No wonder it strayed so far.  Looks like they didn't bother to give the original a chance at all.  

[S'Raek]

Quote:
<snip> Do current naval vessels use these types of phones?  I only saw reference to using these phones in industrial plants, and for visitation phones in correctional facilities.  </snip>  

Yes, current U.S. Navy vessels use sound powered phones.  Mainly for fire-fighting situations, but also for other types of inter-ship communications.  Many moons ago I used to get to sit in my squadron's ready room and listen to the chatter on the sound powered phones and record when our planes took off and landed.  (To track flight hours.)    

[Death_Merchant]

Quote:
Heh, it's been a while since I saw it, but I knew there was something official that told what the cylons were.  Funny, the guy couldn't even be bothered to watch the Pilot of the original series.  OUCH.  No wonder it strayed so far.  Looks like they didn't bother to give the original a chance at all.  

In "Lowdown" and in online interviews, Moore says he rewatched Saga and was struck by how dark and effective the first part (destruction of the Colonies and the initial exodus) was. He then criticized how quickly the Colonials seemed to forget all that and start gambling on Carillon. I guess he missed/forgot/didn't care about that small Apollo/Boxey scene with the short Cylon origin chat.

From http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/updates/extras/scifimag2.html
 "When I sat down and re-watched the original pilot," Moore says, "I was struck by the fact that, at its core, Galactica had a very, very dark premise. It may be the darkest premise of any pilot I've ever seen."

As in Moore's version, the original series begins with the destruction of its characters' entire civilization. "Our heroes are running away in the pilot," says Moore. "Their families are destroyed, their friends, their world. Everything they know has been destroyed by the Cylons, and they have to escape into these vessels and hunt for what might be a mythical planet for new hope."

Having established that dark premise, though, the original series seemed immediately to back away from it in favor of a more traditional action-adventure motif. "Even in the two-hour pilot, they play a couple beats of 'Oh my God, our homes are gone,' which are really pretty effective," says Moore. "But then the second half of the pilot is taken over by the casino planet, and everybody seems to have forgotten what happened just moments ago!"
 

[Rat_Boy]

Good news or bad news, depending on your opinion: TV Guide gushed over the new series, with one of their reviewers giving it a 9 out of ten and their pink movie section gives both hours 3 out of 4 stars.