Topic: I apologize to all in tonights Enterprise

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

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it seem that if used my K-D7L that you are not that good with photons just those dizzies which are no match to it.

Here you seem to be under the impression that I flew your ship and defeated the stock K-D7L.  It was the reverse, I used the stock ship to defeat the mod made to your specs (or slightly stronger than your specs 8 shuttles and KFX Photon arcs remember).  Defeating an AI run stock K-D7L with your conversion would be childsplay and I doubt that I would take any internals.  

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Iwill have to tell you about my F-CB,F-CFS,F-CFS+ sometime those you would defintly not defeat. IKVNemesis I used a simple F-CA and took out a stock K-DL.I used Commodore and game speed slider 9.There were 229 internal Damage on K-D7L and onley 89 on F-CA and I did use the photons in overload it seem that if used my K-D7L that you are not that good with photons just those dizzies which are no match to it.In Empires at War in the news sreen the Klingons were the first to give in to the ISC and the Federation did not they signed a treaty later on I played the Klingon the most EAW and the KLingons became allies with ISC the reason they had weaker ships and were no match for them the Romulans on the other hand were a far better match considering they can cloak and fire thier plasma torpedoes.

You are making the assumption that I only know how to play Klingon.  Wrong assumption.  I have also played extensively as Federation, Romulan and Lyran (my 2nd favourite race).  Less extensively as Hydran and Tigerheart.  Experimented with Gorn, ISC and Mirak.   Gorn and ISC are not my style, my group of friends is too Mirak heavy so I leave Mirak to them.

As an example of my knowing how to use photons.  On a past D2 I was flying a Fed FFB and was drafted to defend a starbase vs a Romulan Dreadnought (non AI).  I managed 3 attack runs on the DN before disengaging with moderate damage.  I knocked down a shield on the DN during the first battle pass and did 7 internals.  Without knowing how to use the Photons effectively I could not have done any such damage.  The Romulan involved did not view me as a threat, did not even think that I would attack.  If they had concentrated on me I would not have been able to do much more than escape at best.  Which is what I did after the Romulan did concentrate on me after the first pass, the 2nd and 3rd pass I took internals rather than delivering them (I did do some shield damage though ), then I disengaged as I did not believe that I could survive a 4th pass.  I believe that I doubled the mission time though.

I have also used the K-D7T on a server and defeated a Mirak player using what is considered one of the best squadrons in the game, 3 Z-DF+.  He managed to disengage all 3 vessels with moderate to heavy damage, mine was lightly damaged.  I had never used the K-D7T before and had to learn its strengths and weaknesses during the battle.  If I did not know how to hit with Photons I could not have defeated him.  

Knowing how to fly the enemies ships and knowing how those ships are designed greatly aids in defeating them and avoiding defeat.  If you know a ships blind spots and weaknesses you can avoid allowing them to use their strengths against you.  Which is part of what is wrong with your K-D7AGES (in my opinion) you are trying to remove all weaknesses.  

The F-CB heavy command cruiser is a much newer model but if you modified it on the same lines as you K-D7AGES I have no reason to think that it is undefeatable (vs AI, a competent human player not without his making a mistake or falling into a trap).  Harder but still doable.

The F-CFS and F-CFS+ are fire support vessels (BPV 192 and 210 before your mods) they are much harder to take as base ships.  Taking on ships designed for bombarding bases might well be more difficult.  They do have a substantial weakness in firing arcs vs a standard vessel.  They are designed to give broadsides through the #5 and #6 shields.  The K-D7L is able to control facing to a great degree and should be able to avoid that arc and thereby weaken their potential attack.  They must also use much of thier power just to arm those 8 photons.  So they are slow.

I would want to study the mods first.  Likely you remove the firing arc limitations on the Photons and greatly enhance power and maneuvering again and remove the major weaknesses of the vessel.

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I could take you out with my K'Vort class destroyer in no.3 it has a warp power of 33 ,top speed at impluse 49.69, maneverablity 1.27 ,total impulse power 713 and total mass 14350 and can go to warp undercloak.I took out a heavily armed Romulan Hawk .I only had 2 time photon anf 4 time disruptor 1F

Never having played SFC3 (not my style of game based on reports) I can't say anything about your K'Vort.

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I guess what I am trying to say is practice with photons for awhile.I play Federation OP because the photons fire better.I know this is based on a board game but what you people do  GW in 2 hours would take 2 days on the board game it is not exactly the same and I know it is a big board game

As stated earlier I have practiced with Photons, which helps me defeat them .  I suggest that you practice on Admiral for a while.  You may find it a little harder.  Advantages that are given at lower difficulty levels are removed and the AI uses tactics that are blocked on easier play levels.  I also suggest that you play against ships of comparable (or greater) firepower to your own.  If your opponent cannot defeat you then you won't have to get better.  If there is no challenge why play?  When playing vs the AI I try not to use any expendables.  It is not always possible and sometimes I choose to use marines for a capture, but by giving myself that limit I force myself to improve.  Then when I have to play vs a truely superiour (or live) opponent I can ignore that limitation and boost my firepower.  It also means that on the D2 I can often stay away from base for multiple battles allowing more hex flipping and build large stocks of prestige (when I played Hydran I ended the campaign with over 300,000 prestige on hand).

Most of that 2 days is in the purely mechanical act of allocating damage.  If we had a utility into which we could input our damage and SSD and have it allocate that damage to the vessel the games could be played nearly as fast on the board game.  Yes there are changes, those are made to compensate for the media change and for the change to realtime rather than turn based movement.  

In the board game you can control your opponents firing arcs more easily.  Making an opponent fire right at the join of two shields (sharing the damage over both) for example can be done in SFC but is much easier in the boardgame.  You could also fire the same  weapon within a quarter turn if that time included a turn break.  This lack in SFC weakens the disruptor which is why the disruptor gains DERFACS and UIM in all eras.   In late eras (when those would be part of the ship in the board game) of course that means the Klingons do not gain any disruptor advantage to counter that disadvantage vs the board game.   The Photon loses the ability to do partial overloads and overload using reserve power but gains extended range.

The changes made purely for reasons like this no one really complains about.  Changes (G-Racks, "Magic" Photons) made for more arbitrary reasons cause more controversy.  

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Its just time for a change the Federation shouldn't be the only Empire using the photon and I could think of any Empire other than the Klingons to be on par with the Federation and it does look cool with photons firing out of a Klingonn ship don't you?Iam just saying the heck with the board game rules and the way this game was designed lets design it another way.I am tired of all those Pirate Cartels of having photons and no other Empire other the Federation.

Here is an area of strong disagreement.  Each race has its own style and weapons.  To give each race the strengths of its enemies removes part of the flavour.  Even where the weapons are the same (Klingon - Mirak and Romulan - Gorn) there are differences in design philosophy that make the ships behave differently.  That is part of the flavour of the game.  To remove that flavour to me ruins the game.  

It also would eliminate many players.  Each race attracts players who like the balance of that race.  Klingons and Lyrans are my favourite because I like the style.  One of my friends likes the Gorn and ISC because of the raw power of the vessels.  Our styles are diametrically opposed.  With your mod to the K-D7AGES you seem more his style of gamer.  If the fleets were all modded in the style you have already demonstrated there would not be any race that appealed to myself and many others.  

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I would like to see a revised ship and fighter list that  is basically all.  I even add Swift 2s firing photons.This just makes for a more interesting game and a hole lot funner.This is untill Taldren comes out with a authentic game set in the 23C. in the TMP with some ships from TOS.I would like to see it in a 3D with the same visual effects as OP and of course the ships making noise when thay get hit and one for the Feds.but no missles except the Kzinti(Mirak),suicide shuttles,Spacks and wild weasels aswell as ECM/ECCM none of that but more powerful and faster ships just more Authentic.It is just time for a change and change is good      

I don't care one way or the other about adding "eye candy" special effects.  But trying to blend TOS and TNG runs into too may conflicts which Paramount never resolved.  As one simple example the Romulans in most areas were technologically behind in TOS and were buying Klingon vessels. But somehow between then and the Motion Picture era things reversed.  The Klingons were suddenly flying Romulan vessels (Romulans not Klingons used Bird of Prey type names and painted their vessels like birds in TOS) and have Romulan style cloaks.  How is it that over 20 years the Romulans became the dominant partner and technology leaders of that alliance?  Why did Klingons begin to follow instead of lead?  

When you give your Swift 2 photons which type do you give them?  Fighter Photons or ship Photons?

It would have been nice if Taldren had put in spare race slots unused by the game.  It would allow for example a server with a breakaway Klingon province allied with the Federation and using Photons (due to being unable to build/obtain new disruptors).  Such a mini race could allow those who wish to experiment with alternate weapons for their race.  It would also allow for Civil War type servers more easily.            

[Age]

   I seggest that you do this in reverse order and stick to spec only 4 shuttles and use natural ECM to 4 turning curve
to A on my mod and do this in reverse order play my mod for awhile you just haven't gotten used to it.This would be like a stock Mustang compared to a modified one if you drove a stock one around all the time you wouldn't be used to a modified Mustang so I seggest eg. driving the modified Mustang for awhile stop useing your stock IKV Nemesis on single for one month and use the mod.

  I used the fighter version of photon like the Federation Fighters BTW I used a K-D6 set to Admiiral game spped slider 9 it was agianst an F-FFR and the F-FFR took me out.I find it hard to capture ships not enough transporters everytime I fire phaser do knock down a shield when the ship can no longer move I end up destroying the ship when I only have 2 or 3 transporters .

  I will send to you a copy of my shiplist as an attachment in an E-Mail if that is okay

  Just use the mod in single for awhile.

  I would set the game speed slider to 9 that the speed I always play at in no.3 sometime 10.I feell the ship move better at these speeds    

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

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   I seggest that you do this in reverse order and stick to spec only 4 shuttles and use natural ECM to 4 turning curve to A on my mod and do this in reverse order play my mod for awhile you just haven't gotten used to it.This would be like a stock Mustang compared to a modified one if you drove a stock one around all the time you wouldn't be used to a modified Mustang so I seggest eg. driving the modified Mustang for awhile stop useing your stock IKV Nemesis on single for one month and use the mod.

I used the fighter version of photon like the Federation Fighters BTW I used a K-D6 set to Admiiral game spped slider 9 it was agianst an F-FFR and the F-FFR took me out.I find it hard to capture ships not enough transporters everytime I fire phaser do knock down a shield when the ship can no longer move I end up destroying the ship when I only have 2 or 3 transporters .

I will send to you a copy of my shiplist as an attachment in an E-Mail if that is okay

  Just use the mod in single for awhile.

  I would set the game speed slider to 9 that the speed I always play at in no.3 sometime 10.I feell the ship move better at these speeds    

You still give the appearance of believing that your super ship can beat me when I use the stock K-D7L.  I win versus your super ship while using a stock vessel.  When I can already beat the modded super ship with the stock ship, what is the point of practicing with the mod ship?   I don't wish to see my skills atrophy by lack of use.  To hone your skills you need to be in danger of defeat.  

I would suggest that you need to practice with stock ships if you can't beat a F-FFR with a K-D6.  Sure the F-FFR is 48 years newer but it is still a frigate (and an escort), the K-D6 is a cruiser.  I took that battle and destroyed the F-FFR while taking 0 internals on the K-D6, I did lose the #4 shield late in the battle and used a total of 4 missiles no other expendables.  I didn't go for a capture as the battle configuration I used did not allow captures.  If you can't capture with Klingon ships what race can you capture with?  Klingons have more transporters than most if not all other races.  It is one of our advantages.  

Try the General War fun server or the RDSL testing server.  

I will stick with the lower game speed as it allows me to use all the capabilities of the ship.  I am not an arcade shootemup player.    

[Age]

   I guess you do not have a creative Imagination.I was doing this mostly for myself and to see what it would be like to change some of the specs. on the ship.This is an experiment that I was trying ou t and a good it is.I see you have been playing this game for 3 years or coming up to 4 well I bought EAW in Jan. 03 OP in March 03..I know you probably know now those ships inside in out but not this one and you did not do it in reverse order .

   I told to stop using the stock ships for now in single player and you my mod for atleast 2 months then you will see what I mean.You are so used to stock or close to it that you don't know how do use this ship.I would seggest you make a few other mods aswell and get used to them don't you get bored of the same ships all the time because I do I just want to spice it up a bit.It is like change a recipe and adding a few more spices to it.In my single player canpaigns I am see more of these and it si cool seeing a Klingon ship decloak and fire photons and go in there and play around a bit.I would would just like to add a few spice to this game considering we are stuck with it untill the day Taldren comes out 1 or 2 new games but more authentic.The only way you would beat me is in long drawn out miza attack I on the other hand like one big alpha strike.I just like a little change that is all but I guess you do not like change.I know how to play with these ship stock I just want to put a little flare in them that is all.    

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

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   I guess you do not have a creative Imagination.I was doing this mostly for myself and to see what it would be like to change some of the specs. on the ship.This is an experiment that I was trying ou t and a good it is.I see you have been playing this game for 3 years or coming up to 4 well I bought EAW in Jan. 03 OP in March 03..I know you probably know now those ships inside in out but not this one and you did not do it in reverse order .

   I told to stop using the stock ships for now in single player and you my mod for atleast 2 months then you will see what I mean.You are so used to stock or close to it that you don't know how do use this ship.I would seggest you make a few other mods aswell and get used to them don't you get bored of the same ships all the time because I do I just want to spice it up a bit.It is like change a recipe and adding a few more spices to it.In my single player canpaigns I am see more of these and it si cool seeing a Klingon ship decloak and fire photons and go in there and play around a bit.I would would just like to add a few spice to this game considering we are stuck with it untill the day Taldren comes out 1 or 2 new games but more authentic.The only way you would beat me is in long drawn out miza attack I on the other hand like one big alpha strike.I just like a little change that is all but I guess you do not like change.I know how to play with these ship stock I just want to put a little flare in them that is all.    

Explain how loading yourself with advantages is creative?   Is it not more creative to accept disadvantages and find ways to defeat a superiour opponent?   Do you give the enemy ships advantages comparable to your own?  If you do you have not mentioned it.  

Vessels designed like yours to bludgeon your opponents into submission do not delight me.  I prefer finesse.  

The sabre dance not the alpha strike.  The mad dance around a black hole in your destroyer between assault runs on a pursuing dreadnought.   Finding a way to save part of a convoy when your defending CC is outgunned by 4 to one by the attacking players and leaving with another players CC as well as your own when the battle is done and part of the convoy is safe.  Using psychology to destroy the other players F-NCL with your R-WB+.    The suicide run in your crippled E-4 to turn the tide of battle between your allied BCH and an opposing BCH.  The thrill when you realize that your opponent has suckered you into doing exactly what he wanted and now you are on the run just when you thought victory was in your hands.  All of these describe fun battles I have been in.

When I have had the overwhelming bludgeoning advantage I have allowed other players to disengage.   When my fully loaded H-ID drafted a damaged K-C7, I allowed the player to disengage though it cost me the hex I had worked down to neutral and some prestige.  There would have been no fun in destroying him, even undamaged his vessel was too inferior to be a plausible challenge.  There is no joy in the preordained victory.  When fighting the AI in such a situation I either end it quick or go for captures while minimizing damage to the enemy vessels, just to add some challenge.

You think that I can't adapt to and use your ship?  I just played a skirmish (Admiral setting) using your vessel vs a K-FD7K (better powercurve than the stock D7L) and in 6 min and 4 seconds captured the stock vesssel while taking no damage and losing no shields.   Notice I say captured, something you seem to have problems with.  But I saw no fun as there was no challenge.  

I am preparing my own modified shiplist to setup for my nephews to play.  It does in fact include some Klingon vessels with cloak and photons (K-E3TY to K-C7TY) and some with plasma and cloak.  There are in addition some modded Romulan vessels (Warbird to King Eagle series vessels).    I am also putting in Babylon 5 Shadow vessels (copied from the RDSL server, thanks guys) as non human playable Orion-Orions.  The difference between your shiplist and this one is that none of my human playable ones are designed to overwhelm the stock opponents.  All are designed to be comparable to stock and have weaknesses as well as strengths.  To challenge you rather than hand you victory.    

[FFZ]

 There are so many ship types from so many races, I have yet to grow bored with them,  just the change of eras changes tactics, what works fine in early battles may not be so good in later scenarios.

I will eventually get round to MP, I have found over the years that live opponets are far more fun then any AI, as they can be both brillaint and inane all at the same time.

But the thrill is always there, I recall, many years ago, being caught by a Klingon squadron with just a single Kzin CV (this was SFB of course, the board game). The Klingon player was very happy (this was a tourney at a convention) because he was sure his three D-7Ks would smash my CV in no time. Seems this fellow didn't understand just how danderous fighters were, nor that Derfacs Dusruptor fire is effective at long range, as he was busy overloading his disruptors, I knocked down his shields with the fighters and let long range disruptor fire tear up his ships. The guy started to panic, never having seen this kind of tactic, and he was good as dead. I sent two of his ships to hell, and his third barely escaped by acceleration.

The moral is, of course ,is its one thing to beat the AI, beating the living is something else entire.  

[Thrain]

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 It didn't bother me, but I'm also a nube, so my opinion is not held in the same reguard as the veteran posters.    

Trust me. Longevity doesn't mean squat in the face of a logical, fact based post.  

And this is like something you have personal experience with?!

JK ToastyO.....I saw the door was open and just couldn't resist.....What you say is absolutely true though....

And welcome Age. You'll get used to us after a bit.

[Age]

   I was just experimenting that is all.The time I have with captureing ships is whem  I use a Federation ship and it only has so many Transporters everytime iI keep knocking down thier shields I do damage to ship.It is those big no.1 or optional W phasers that do a lot of damge at range 1 or 0 to trasport marines over to capture.When I do this I keep destoying the and klling the marines I sent over it is because I only have 2 or 3 tranporters avaible I click on the rest and quick tips says aviable Transporters so I click on them to activate them and nothing happens.I would prefer to capture since it is not in Federation to destroy a thier enemy unless they have it is in there best interest to capture
a ship.

  I will say it agian I was just experimenting that is all eg. like putting nutmeg in an apple pie instead of cinnamon do you understand.  

[Age]

  Sounds like lots of fun how long did it take?  

[Age]

  I am sure I will you either crack me up or sent me into chaos. but all of you are great people  

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

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   I was just experimenting that is all.The time I have with captureing ships is whem  I use a Federation ship and it only has so many Transporters everytime iI keep knocking down thier shields I do damage to ship.It is those big no.1 or optional W phasers that do a lot of damge at range 1 or 0 to trasport marines over to capture.When I do this I keep destoying the and klling the marines I sent over it is because I only have 2 or 3 tranporters avaible I click on the rest and quick tips says aviable Transporters so I click on them to activate them and nothing happens.I would prefer to capture since it is not in Federation to destroy a thier enemy unless they have it is in there best interest to capture
a ship.

  I will say it agian I was just experimenting that is all eg. like putting nutmeg in an apple pie instead of cinnamon do you understand.  

Try the F-GSC.  As an exploration ship that is also combat capable it has 7 transporters.  In single player you can also use assault shuttles.  Dropped at zero range you can bypass the point defense, and they work even if shields are up.

You might also look up non violent combat.  I believe that it escalates kills of enemy boarding parties.  

[Age]

   Where would I look that up ?