Topic: "Unbalanced" SFC

[Maxillius]

Has anyone ever thought about modding SFC into a version with "unbalanced" races?  ISC in their true UBER form, Feds with their magic photons and ability to make the deflector dish into anything they damn well please , Kzinti with 60 drone control... the list is longer than I know.  I'm interested in a "true racial flavor" mod, if anyone with knowledge and know-how can put one together?

[Strafer]

Well, give the AI in OP more than 12 sensors and you'll get a beautiful view of your Windows desktop...

[Cleaven]

To get true "uber" ISC you need them to work in their echelon formation, not as isolated units.

I think Feds in reverse and bolted plasma would be pretty "uber" (I mean cool) too.  

[FireSoul]

To get true 'Uber' Feds, you need to give their CVAs and such their much deserved SWACs.
.. Oh, and a working 8-channel scout.

[762]

Have you tried SFC3?

[NightStalker-SFC3]

I think the unbalanced races should have been an option for single and multiplayer games. The only reason they are balanced is to keep people from abusing a race. I would love to fight the Borg unbalanced just to see how many ships it would take to destroy a cube. Even if GAW were made the Andromedans would have been balanced to the point where they would might lose some or most of the technology that made them so powerful. The infamous PA panels might have been removed and replaced with heavy armor like the Borg's adaptive shielding. The displacement device and the satellite ships might have been removed and not replaced with anything.

I was so upset with what they did to Borg in SFC3. The Borg were the reason I bought the game. The more I read about GAW the more I see that even if GAW were made the Andromedans would not be the same Andromedans I read about due to the balancing.  

[Qob'nuH]

That's what "ship edit" is for...I was adjusting specs to my liking the first day i got the game. I hope in time to re-spec and trim the majority of the shiplist. Makes it a much better game and keeps me interested.  

[NightStalker-SFC3]

Quote:
That's what "ship edit" is for...I was adjusting specs to my liking the first day i got the game. I hope in time to re-spec and trim the majority of the shiplist. Makes it a much better game and keeps me interested.  

It is way too much work to make a version for both single play and multiplayer with balanced and unbalanced for each. It is not a lot of work, but it would be way more than necessary.  

[RazalYllib]

My easy fix for Andro balancing act in the Mythical GAW: AI only, end of balance issues.

[Desty_Nova]

Quote:
I think the unbalanced races should have been an option for single and multiplayer games. The only reason they are balanced is to keep people from abusing a race. I would love to fight the Borg unbalanced just to see how many ships it would take to destroy a cube. Even if GAW were made the Andromedans would have been balanced to the point where they would might lose some or most of the technology that made them so powerful. The infamous PA panels might have been removed and replaced with heavy armor like the Borg's adaptive shielding. The displacement device and the satellite ships might have been removed and not replaced with anything.

I was so upset with what they did to Borg in SFC3. The Borg were the reason I bought the game. The more I read about GAW the more I see that even if GAW were made the Andromedans would not be the same Andromedans I read about due to the balancing.  

Um, the Andromedans aren't that uber. Sure, they have certain advantages over their galactic counterparts, but they also have disadvantages to balance them out. And they don't have such staggering advantages that it would warrant removing every bit of racial flavor they have to water them down.  I have beaten Andromedan ships in equal BPV battles in Starfleet Battles. If it can be done there, it could be done in SFC. The Andromedans are designed to be challenging but equal opponents. The Borg are designed to be 'unfair', if you will, with their individual ships being basically unstoppable.  

[NightStalker-SFC3]

Quote:

Quote:
I think the unbalanced races should have been an option for single and multiplayer games. The only reason they are balanced is to keep people from abusing a race. I would love to fight the Borg unbalanced just to see how many ships it would take to destroy a cube. Even if GAW were made the Andromedans would have been balanced to the point where they would might lose some or most of the technology that made them so powerful. The infamous PA panels might have been removed and replaced with heavy armor like the Borg's adaptive shielding. The displacement device and the satellite ships might have been removed and not replaced with anything.

I was so upset with what they did to Borg in SFC3. The Borg were the reason I bought the game. The more I read about GAW the more I see that even if GAW were made the Andromedans would not be the same Andromedans I read about due to the balancing.  

Um, the Andromedans aren't that uber. Sure, they have certain advantages over their galactic counterparts, but they also have disadvantages to balance them out. And they don't have such staggering advantages that it would warrant removing every bit of racial flavor they have to water them down.  I have beaten Andromedan ships in equal BPV battles in Starfleet Battles. If it can be done there, it could be done in SFC. The Andromedans are designed to be challenging but equal opponents. The Borg are designed to be 'unfair', if you will, with their individual ships being basically unstoppable.  

The PA panels and the Satellite Ships in my opinion are what make them seem very powerful. Even if your ship is equal in BPV it would take a very skilled commander to keep a downed shield away from the satellite ships. I have a similar problem when I fight carriers in SFC. In SFC I can usually cripple the carrier, but I usually get a shield or two very low or knocked out. The fighters come in and alpha strike that part of my ship taking out a few weapons hardpoints which prevents me from finishing off the carrier right away. I have never lost a battle against a carrier although I usually suffer significant damage. I play as Romulan in SFC so knocking out a plasma hard point or a phaser hardpoint has a significant impact on the battle due to the long recharge rate of the plasma and the weapons arcs.  

[Desty_Nova]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
I think the unbalanced races should have been an option for single and multiplayer games. The only reason they are balanced is to keep people from abusing a race. I would love to fight the Borg unbalanced just to see how many ships it would take to destroy a cube. Even if GAW were made the Andromedans would have been balanced to the point where they would might lose some or most of the technology that made them so powerful. The infamous PA panels might have been removed and replaced with heavy armor like the Borg's adaptive shielding. The displacement device and the satellite ships might have been removed and not replaced with anything.

I was so upset with what they did to Borg in SFC3. The Borg were the reason I bought the game. The more I read about GAW the more I see that even if GAW were made the Andromedans would not be the same Andromedans I read about due to the balancing.  

Um, the Andromedans aren't that uber. Sure, they have certain advantages over their galactic counterparts, but they also have disadvantages to balance them out. And they don't have such staggering advantages that it would warrant removing every bit of racial flavor they have to water them down.  I have beaten Andromedan ships in equal BPV battles in Starfleet Battles. If it can be done there, it could be done in SFC. The Andromedans are designed to be challenging but equal opponents. The Borg are designed to be 'unfair', if you will, with their individual ships being basically unstoppable.  

The PA panels and the Satellite Ships in my opinion are what make them seem very powerful. Even if your ship is equal in BPV it would take a very skilled commander to keep a downed shield away from the satellite ships. I have a similar problem when I fight carriers in SFC. In SFC I can usually cripple the carrier, but I usually get a shield or two very low or knocked out. The fighters come in and alpha strike that part of my ship taking out a few weapons hardpoints which prevents me from finishing off the carrier right away. I have never lost a battle against a carrier although I usually suffer significant damage. I play as Romulan in SFC so knocking out a plasma hard point or a phaser hardpoint has a significant impact on the battle due to the long recharge rate of the plasma and the weapons arcs.  

Well, that's all part of the challenge of fighting the Andros. The thing about satellite ships is that they often do not have massive 'crunch' power; ph-2's and TRLs have limited damage potential unless at close range. Also, sat ships tend to be very fragile, once their PA panels are breached they die quickly. I prefer to handle sat ships as i do fighters: kill them first. Once they are gone, the Andro commander's options become much more limited and a significant portion of his firepower is gone.

As for the Andro mothership itself, it is a much tougher challenge than its sat ships. The displacement device is big advantage, but it has some limitations. Immediately after self-displacement, the Andro is unable to fire weapons(except as point defense) for a brief period. Also, whenever an Andro attempts self-displacement, there is a chance it will go wrong and randomly displace him to any point within its radius. Countless Andromedans have died because of this. When used for offensive displacement of enemy ships, it can be an effective tool, however this type of displacement is always random and unreliable, not to mention it might not even work at all.

PA panels generally make Andromedan ships tougher, however this is somewhat balanced out by the fact that once an Andro starts taking battery hits, it tends to cause a cascade of damage which flows through the ship and destroys it in short order. Watch out for stupid panel tricks, though.

TRH's are frightening weapons, but they are also somewhat balanced out by the fact that Andro ships also carry only the inferior phaser-2. And, as TRH's are a 2-turn arming weapon, that means that during the rearming turn the Andro isn't much of a threat with its ph-2's.  Also keep in mind that TRH's need to be relatively close to score good damage; as a Romulan it would be a good idea for you to keep him at range with early plasma launches(especially using envelopers or sabots).

Anyway I could go on about ways to take advantage of the weaknesses and avoid the strengths of the Andromedans, but hopefully you now understand that they can be beaten if you just use your head.  

[Whiplash]

I don't know about fleet battles or open-space battles with Andros. They may be balanced. Seems like they would be more balanced the larger the fleet. The Gals then have the easiest time penetrating panels.

But in a box, one on one, like in tournament play, the Andro is fearsome. So much so that it is currently banned.

W.
 

[Desty_Nova]

Quote:
I don't know about fleet battles or open-space battles with Andros. They may be balanced. Seems like they would be more balanced the larger the fleet. The Gals then have the easiest time penetrating panels.

But in a box, one on one, like in tournament play, the Andro is fearsome. So much so that it is currently banned.

W.
 

Actually, the Krait has been put back in for sanctioned tournament play. However, it has a bunch of restrictions on it.  

[RazalYllib]

The Krait "needed" the restrictions in order to fit the mode of tourney play. Very Nasty.

The Tourney Rules and Ships are the best attempt at full play balance within the SFB ruleset.
Any SFB vet will tell you outside tourney conditions, straight BPV matches does not equate to equal combat ability, player skill and the luck of the die notwithstanding.  

[Maxillius]

Has anyone ever thought about modding SFC into a version with "unbalanced" races?  ISC in their true UBER form, Feds with their magic photons and ability to make the deflector dish into anything they damn well please , Kzinti with 60 drone control... the list is longer than I know.  I'm interested in a "true racial flavor" mod, if anyone with knowledge and know-how can put one together?

[Strafer]

Well, give the AI in OP more than 12 sensors and you'll get a beautiful view of your Windows desktop...

[Cleaven]

To get true "uber" ISC you need them to work in their echelon formation, not as isolated units.

I think Feds in reverse and bolted plasma would be pretty "uber" (I mean cool) too.  

[FireSoul]

To get true 'Uber' Feds, you need to give their CVAs and such their much deserved SWACs.
.. Oh, and a working 8-channel scout.

[762]

Have you tried SFC3?

[NightStalker-SFC3]

I think the unbalanced races should have been an option for single and multiplayer games. The only reason they are balanced is to keep people from abusing a race. I would love to fight the Borg unbalanced just to see how many ships it would take to destroy a cube. Even if GAW were made the Andromedans would have been balanced to the point where they would might lose some or most of the technology that made them so powerful. The infamous PA panels might have been removed and replaced with heavy armor like the Borg's adaptive shielding. The displacement device and the satellite ships might have been removed and not replaced with anything.

I was so upset with what they did to Borg in SFC3. The Borg were the reason I bought the game. The more I read about GAW the more I see that even if GAW were made the Andromedans would not be the same Andromedans I read about due to the balancing.  

[Qob'nuH]

That's what "ship edit" is for...I was adjusting specs to my liking the first day i got the game. I hope in time to re-spec and trim the majority of the shiplist. Makes it a much better game and keeps me interested.  

[NightStalker-SFC3]

Quote:
That's what "ship edit" is for...I was adjusting specs to my liking the first day i got the game. I hope in time to re-spec and trim the majority of the shiplist. Makes it a much better game and keeps me interested.  

It is way too much work to make a version for both single play and multiplayer with balanced and unbalanced for each. It is not a lot of work, but it would be way more than necessary.  

[RazalYllib]

My easy fix for Andro balancing act in the Mythical GAW: AI only, end of balance issues.

[Desty_Nova]

Quote:
I think the unbalanced races should have been an option for single and multiplayer games. The only reason they are balanced is to keep people from abusing a race. I would love to fight the Borg unbalanced just to see how many ships it would take to destroy a cube. Even if GAW were made the Andromedans would have been balanced to the point where they would might lose some or most of the technology that made them so powerful. The infamous PA panels might have been removed and replaced with heavy armor like the Borg's adaptive shielding. The displacement device and the satellite ships might have been removed and not replaced with anything.

I was so upset with what they did to Borg in SFC3. The Borg were the reason I bought the game. The more I read about GAW the more I see that even if GAW were made the Andromedans would not be the same Andromedans I read about due to the balancing.  

Um, the Andromedans aren't that uber. Sure, they have certain advantages over their galactic counterparts, but they also have disadvantages to balance them out. And they don't have such staggering advantages that it would warrant removing every bit of racial flavor they have to water them down.  I have beaten Andromedan ships in equal BPV battles in Starfleet Battles. If it can be done there, it could be done in SFC. The Andromedans are designed to be challenging but equal opponents. The Borg are designed to be 'unfair', if you will, with their individual ships being basically unstoppable.  

[NightStalker-SFC3]

Quote:

Quote:
I think the unbalanced races should have been an option for single and multiplayer games. The only reason they are balanced is to keep people from abusing a race. I would love to fight the Borg unbalanced just to see how many ships it would take to destroy a cube. Even if GAW were made the Andromedans would have been balanced to the point where they would might lose some or most of the technology that made them so powerful. The infamous PA panels might have been removed and replaced with heavy armor like the Borg's adaptive shielding. The displacement device and the satellite ships might have been removed and not replaced with anything.

I was so upset with what they did to Borg in SFC3. The Borg were the reason I bought the game. The more I read about GAW the more I see that even if GAW were made the Andromedans would not be the same Andromedans I read about due to the balancing.  

Um, the Andromedans aren't that uber. Sure, they have certain advantages over their galactic counterparts, but they also have disadvantages to balance them out. And they don't have such staggering advantages that it would warrant removing every bit of racial flavor they have to water them down.  I have beaten Andromedan ships in equal BPV battles in Starfleet Battles. If it can be done there, it could be done in SFC. The Andromedans are designed to be challenging but equal opponents. The Borg are designed to be 'unfair', if you will, with their individual ships being basically unstoppable.  

The PA panels and the Satellite Ships in my opinion are what make them seem very powerful. Even if your ship is equal in BPV it would take a very skilled commander to keep a downed shield away from the satellite ships. I have a similar problem when I fight carriers in SFC. In SFC I can usually cripple the carrier, but I usually get a shield or two very low or knocked out. The fighters come in and alpha strike that part of my ship taking out a few weapons hardpoints which prevents me from finishing off the carrier right away. I have never lost a battle against a carrier although I usually suffer significant damage. I play as Romulan in SFC so knocking out a plasma hard point or a phaser hardpoint has a significant impact on the battle due to the long recharge rate of the plasma and the weapons arcs.  

[Desty_Nova]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
I think the unbalanced races should have been an option for single and multiplayer games. The only reason they are balanced is to keep people from abusing a race. I would love to fight the Borg unbalanced just to see how many ships it would take to destroy a cube. Even if GAW were made the Andromedans would have been balanced to the point where they would might lose some or most of the technology that made them so powerful. The infamous PA panels might have been removed and replaced with heavy armor like the Borg's adaptive shielding. The displacement device and the satellite ships might have been removed and not replaced with anything.

I was so upset with what they did to Borg in SFC3. The Borg were the reason I bought the game. The more I read about GAW the more I see that even if GAW were made the Andromedans would not be the same Andromedans I read about due to the balancing.  

Um, the Andromedans aren't that uber. Sure, they have certain advantages over their galactic counterparts, but they also have disadvantages to balance them out. And they don't have such staggering advantages that it would warrant removing every bit of racial flavor they have to water them down.  I have beaten Andromedan ships in equal BPV battles in Starfleet Battles. If it can be done there, it could be done in SFC. The Andromedans are designed to be challenging but equal opponents. The Borg are designed to be 'unfair', if you will, with their individual ships being basically unstoppable.  

The PA panels and the Satellite Ships in my opinion are what make them seem very powerful. Even if your ship is equal in BPV it would take a very skilled commander to keep a downed shield away from the satellite ships. I have a similar problem when I fight carriers in SFC. In SFC I can usually cripple the carrier, but I usually get a shield or two very low or knocked out. The fighters come in and alpha strike that part of my ship taking out a few weapons hardpoints which prevents me from finishing off the carrier right away. I have never lost a battle against a carrier although I usually suffer significant damage. I play as Romulan in SFC so knocking out a plasma hard point or a phaser hardpoint has a significant impact on the battle due to the long recharge rate of the plasma and the weapons arcs.  

Well, that's all part of the challenge of fighting the Andros. The thing about satellite ships is that they often do not have massive 'crunch' power; ph-2's and TRLs have limited damage potential unless at close range. Also, sat ships tend to be very fragile, once their PA panels are breached they die quickly. I prefer to handle sat ships as i do fighters: kill them first. Once they are gone, the Andro commander's options become much more limited and a significant portion of his firepower is gone.

As for the Andro mothership itself, it is a much tougher challenge than its sat ships. The displacement device is big advantage, but it has some limitations. Immediately after self-displacement, the Andro is unable to fire weapons(except as point defense) for a brief period. Also, whenever an Andro attempts self-displacement, there is a chance it will go wrong and randomly displace him to any point within its radius. Countless Andromedans have died because of this. When used for offensive displacement of enemy ships, it can be an effective tool, however this type of displacement is always random and unreliable, not to mention it might not even work at all.

PA panels generally make Andromedan ships tougher, however this is somewhat balanced out by the fact that once an Andro starts taking battery hits, it tends to cause a cascade of damage which flows through the ship and destroys it in short order. Watch out for stupid panel tricks, though.

TRH's are frightening weapons, but they are also somewhat balanced out by the fact that Andro ships also carry only the inferior phaser-2. And, as TRH's are a 2-turn arming weapon, that means that during the rearming turn the Andro isn't much of a threat with its ph-2's.  Also keep in mind that TRH's need to be relatively close to score good damage; as a Romulan it would be a good idea for you to keep him at range with early plasma launches(especially using envelopers or sabots).

Anyway I could go on about ways to take advantage of the weaknesses and avoid the strengths of the Andromedans, but hopefully you now understand that they can be beaten if you just use your head.  

[Whiplash]

I don't know about fleet battles or open-space battles with Andros. They may be balanced. Seems like they would be more balanced the larger the fleet. The Gals then have the easiest time penetrating panels.

But in a box, one on one, like in tournament play, the Andro is fearsome. So much so that it is currently banned.

W.
 

[Desty_Nova]

Quote:
I don't know about fleet battles or open-space battles with Andros. They may be balanced. Seems like they would be more balanced the larger the fleet. The Gals then have the easiest time penetrating panels.

But in a box, one on one, like in tournament play, the Andro is fearsome. So much so that it is currently banned.

W.
 

Actually, the Krait has been put back in for sanctioned tournament play. However, it has a bunch of restrictions on it.  

[RazalYllib]

The Krait "needed" the restrictions in order to fit the mode of tourney play. Very Nasty.

The Tourney Rules and Ships are the best attempt at full play balance within the SFB ruleset.
Any SFB vet will tell you outside tourney conditions, straight BPV matches does not equate to equal combat ability, player skill and the luck of the die notwithstanding.