Topic: GaW - Ship Design 101  (Read 3568 times)

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WickedZombie45

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GaW - Ship Design 101
« on: November 15, 2003, 09:41:19 am »
Since most seem to be working on the GaW mod and there's lots of talk about the Andros floating around the forums, I thought it might be a good idea to have a separate thread that featured references regarding the Andro invasion. As this is a modeling forum and ship designs being the foremost on my mind, I figure we could start by listing key characteristics regarding the Andros and Tholians. Put simply, just what makes an Andromedan ship Andromedan? What does it look like exactly? What are its most notable details? What are the common design traits that all Andro ships share?

The same goes for the Tholians though they have a simpler appearance. We all know what makes Federation ships stand out - the phaser emplacements, torpedo launchers, rounded hull(s), red impulse engines, blue nacelles, etc. I think the other races should have the same amount of familiarity which could help contribute to more of their ships being built as it's hard to work on something that you know little about.

I know we already have Andro and Tholian models that could be used as references but sometimes that isn't enough, especially if one wants to make something original or unique and don't want to rely too heavily on other's work (even if it is closely based on the 'real' thing). I myself am somewhat familiar with the race's designs, but every bit helps and other modelers might want to familiarize themselves with them should they want to make their own ships. In my experience, the best way to build a ship for a race is to understand how they think, how they fight, and essentially what makes them such a formidable opponent in battle. At the risk of sounding corny, in order to build a Klingon battlecruiser, for example, you have to think like a Klingon.

Hopefully, if enough information is gathered, this thread could be stick-ified for future reference so we lowly ship builders won't have to scrounge through 300 posts to find out just what the hell those green things are on so-and-so's warships.    

sandman69247

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Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2003, 10:45:16 am »
Great thread, WZ!! Let's not just do the Andros and Tholians though...I think we need  all  the races featured. I am working on a Rom BoP that is from the Lost Era, and since I'm not too familiar with Roms (feds being what I usually make), I'm not sure what to add to the textures to make it seem more.....right.

Let's keep this on page one, and hopefully it will get stickied.  

Azel

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Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2003, 01:09:11 pm »
I am In...I can designs stuff if anyone needs it....or even come up with rough 3D mesh sketches  

starforce2

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Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2003, 01:13:16 pm »
I would like to know of andro's capabilities. It seems now with destynova and darkdrone feeding us all these extra-galatic excuses to use excessive amounts of photon torpedos, I'll hafta include tha andro's in my bridgecommander TOS supermod.  

Klingon Fanatic

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Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2003, 01:24:15 pm »
Rod O' Neal made the GaW Mod crew aware of these ship charts with some basic specs; sorry no pics.

These Master Ship Charts should be of help to us non-SFB  folks scrambling for ship names/capabilities:

http://www.members.aol.com/rocketrod6a/MasterShipCharts.zip

Thanks again to Rod O'Neal for pointing this out.

Qapla!

KF

Lord Schtupp

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2003, 02:17:47 pm »
Excellent subject worthy of discussion-  As far as I know the only systematic description of fleet types for the Andromedeans is in Star Fleet Battles. Andromedeans have several unique technologies in SFB not depicted in SFC:

Tractor/Repulsor Beam: Heavy Weapon. Roughly equivelent to the Phaser 4 and PPD in Damage vs Range. Very good SFB weapon. Phaser 2 is their standard weapon, which is kinda sucky.

Power Absorber Panels: Their version of shields. Self explanatory. Could divert or bleed off some power from absorbed damage to power ship systems. Pretty cool tech.

Displacement Device: Giant transporter unit that instantly (but randomly) shifts position of a vessel so equipped 5 or 6 hexes (1 hex=10000 km.) Also used to deploy "Satellite Ships" by transporting them from inside the hanger to outside the mother ship. (no hanger doors, real timesaver!!!)  

The Andromedeans are one of my favorite SFB races. Very good weapons and unique tech allows different strategies when playing the andros.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Lord Schtupp »

Klingon Fanatic

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2003, 02:43:34 pm »
Quote:

Excellent subject worthy of discussion-  As far as I know the only systematic description of fleet types for the Andromedeans is in Star Fleet Battles. Andromedeans have several unique technologies in SFB not depicted in SFC:

Tractor/Repulsor Beam: Heavy Weapon. Roughly equivelent to the Phaser 4 and PPD in Damage vs Range. Very good SFB weapon. Phaser 2 is their standard weapon, which is kinda sucky.

Power Absorber Panels: Their version of shields. Self explanatory. Could divert or bleed off some power from absorbed damage to power ship systems. Pretty cool tech.

Displacement Device: Giant transporter unit that instantly (but randomly) shifts position of a vessel so equipped 5 or 6 hexes (1 hex=10000 km.) Also used to deploy "Satellite Ships" by transporting them from inside the hanger to outside the mother ship. (no hanger doors, real timesaver!!!)  

The Andromedeans are one of my favorite SFB races. Very good weapons and unique tech allows different strategies when playing the andros.  




We have blue TRBs in heavy and light flavor in SFC. PA panel functioning IS being worked on and there may be a way to give the Tholians their web effect.

KF

Lord Schtupp

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2003, 03:08:08 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Excellent subject worthy of discussion-  As far as I know the only systematic description of fleet types for the Andromedeans is in Star Fleet Battles. Andromedeans have several unique technologies in SFB not depicted in SFC:

Tractor/Repulsor Beam: Heavy Weapon. Roughly equivelent to the Phaser 4 and PPD in Damage vs Range. Very good SFB weapon. Phaser 2 is their standard weapon, which is kinda sucky.

Power Absorber Panels: Their version of shields. Self explanatory. Could divert or bleed off some power from absorbed damage to power ship systems. Pretty cool tech.

Displacement Device: Giant transporter unit that instantly (but randomly) shifts position of a vessel so equipped 5 or 6 hexes (1 hex=10000 km.) Also used to deploy "Satellite Ships" by transporting them from inside the hanger to outside the mother ship. (no hanger doors, real timesaver!!!)  

The Andromedeans are one of my favorite SFB races. Very good weapons and unique tech allows different strategies when playing the andros.  




We have blue TRBs in heavy and light flavor in SFC. PA panel functioning IS being worked on and there may be a way to give the Tholians their web effect.

KF  







Really? What are their shiplst.txt codes?

Klingon Fanatic

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2003, 04:05:21 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Excellent subject worthy of discussion-  As far as I know the only systematic description of fleet types for the Andromedeans is in Star Fleet Battles. Andromedeans have several unique technologies in SFB not depicted in SFC:

Tractor/Repulsor Beam: Heavy Weapon. Roughly equivelent to the Phaser 4 and PPD in Damage vs Range. Very good SFB weapon. Phaser 2 is their standard weapon, which is kinda sucky.

Power Absorber Panels: Their version of shields. Self explanatory. Could divert or bleed off some power from absorbed damage to power ship systems. Pretty cool tech.

Displacement Device: Giant transporter unit that instantly (but randomly) shifts position of a vessel so equipped 5 or 6 hexes (1 hex=10000 km.) Also used to deploy "Satellite Ships" by transporting them from inside the hanger to outside the mother ship. (no hanger doors, real timesaver!!!)  

The Andromedeans are one of my favorite SFB races. Very good weapons and unique tech allows different strategies when playing the andros.  




We have blue TRBs in heavy and light flavor in SFC. PA panel functioning IS being worked on and there may be a way to give the Tholians their web effect.

KF  







Really? What are their shiplst.txt codes?  




I believe that the third to last OP patch broke TRBs into trbl and trbh which can be used in the shiplist to make light and heavy TRBs.

GaW Mod example:

OrionWyldeFire   CA   A-INT4   HEAVY_CRUISER   368   NT   14   999   3   C   1   1   6      24   10   20      29   4   48   48   36   36   252   4                     1   TRBH   LS   1   TRBH   RS   1   TRBH   FH                                                         4   Ph2   RS   4   Ph2   LS                                                                                                               1   4   8         3         3   3   0   0   3   A-MWP   3   A-MWP   3   A-MWP               16      7      2   16      4   12   32   6      6   3   4         6   6   23   10   6   6   5      assets/models/aca/aca.mod   PCA   A Intruder CA   MWP   160         7.605   7.605   0   0   0   9.940875   9.940875   0   0   0   0   8.269696   8.269696   0   0   0   0   0   2.438   2.438   0   0   0   0   0   56.507142   0   0   0   0   0   221.5   139.908285   175   1162

Stay tuned folks its going to be a bumpy ride

KF  

Lord Schtupp

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2003, 04:13:52 pm »
Quote:


I believe that the third to last OP patch broke TRBs into trbl and trbh which can be used in the shiplist to make light and heavy TRBs.
 




whoa  lol..

I didnt know that KF  

Thanks I will check  that out.....  

Desty_Nova

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2003, 04:55:10 pm »
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?selected=609251

Well, I've posted a diagram of what functions the various parts of Andromedan ships have that can be deteremined. Certain factors should be considered when designing an Andromedan ship.

First: they always come in the saucer-nacelles configuration. This unified hull design gives them remarkable durability, and even in the event that PA panels are breached, substantial damage is still required before an Andromedan ship starts suffering a significant loss of capability. In SFB this is reflected by the ship having many 'center hull' boxes.

Second: Andromedan firing arcs always cover 180 degree portions of the ship. Their most common arcs are FH (forward half), LS (left side), and RS (right side). Sometimes there are RH (rear half) weapons. This is their doctrine, so keep this in mind when placing weapons on an Andromedan hull.

Third: Andromedan ships never, ever have shuttlebays. They apparently don't understand the concept or have no desire to duplicate it. Either way, they never had them. Also, satellite ships, which are carried internally, are always launched by either the displacement device or transporter, so no visible door is present for those ships to egress through.

Fourth: Andromedan ships use four total types of weapons: Heavy Tractor-Repulsor beams, Light Tractor-Repulsor beams, Phaser-2's (not really phaser 2's, just a weapon that has similar effects), and occasionally maulers. They never developed new weapons apart from these or capatured and used foreign technology.

These are some of the basic characteristics common to all Andromedan starships observed in our galaxy. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask.
 

StClair

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2003, 06:02:28 am »
Quote:

 These are some of the basic characteristics common to all Andromedan starships observed in our galaxy. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask.
 




Okay, I've got one - has there ever been any attempt to explain how a cruiser-sized vessel could carry one or more FF/DDs entirely inside its hull, while still having all the internal components necessary to function as a (kick-ass) cruiser?  Are the satellite ships inflatable?  Dehydrated?

Aside from that little issue, an excellent summary of the technology.  Thanks.
 

Klingon Fanatic

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2003, 07:49:38 am »
Quote:

Quote:

 These are some of the basic characteristics common to all Andromedan starships observed in our galaxy. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask.
 




Okay, I've got one - has there ever been any attempt to explain how a cruiser-sized vessel could carry one or more FF/DDs entirely inside its hull, while still having all the internal components necessary to function as a (kick-ass) cruiser?  Are the satellite ships inflatable?  Dehydrated?

Aside from that little issue, an excellent summary of the technology.  Thanks.
   




Did you ever watch Doctor Who? His T.A.R.D.I.S. was  much bigger on the inside than it was on the outside.  

Qapla!

KF

Rogue

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2003, 08:14:40 am »
Quote:



Did you ever watch Doctor Who? His T.A.R.D.I.S. was  much bigger on the inside than it was on the outside.  

Qapla!

KF  




Ah... perhaps not so funny. I think someone pointed out before that it is speculated the satelite ships don't exist physicly inside the carrier but are held in the displacement device buffer. Which still would make you think that you could record the image and produce duplicates just like you should transporter images. Ya, I know it has been pointed out it can't be done but once something is reduced to data... It would be like saying each DVD is unique and can't be duped. Riiiggghhht. Computer geeks know better.

CG1  "I just hacked Spock!"
CG2  "Oooo... feed that image to the transport buffer."
CG3  "Dude, I thought you were working on Yeoman Rand."
CG1  "Ya, but if I can get Spock right..."
CG3  "Oh, OK."

PS. Hope you get that Melak!      

Desty_Nova

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2003, 08:19:09 am »
Quote:

Quote:

 These are some of the basic characteristics common to all Andromedan starships observed in our galaxy. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask.
 




Okay, I've got one - has there ever been any attempt to explain how a cruiser-sized vessel could carry one or more FF/DDs entirely inside its hull, while still having all the internal components necessary to function as a (kick-ass) cruiser?  Are the satellite ships inflatable?  Dehydrated?

Aside from that little issue, an excellent summary of the technology.  Thanks.
   




Some sort of transdimensional containment system, probably based on a similar principle to the displacement device. Basically, it probably 'stores' the sat ships in a pocket of another dimension or something and the actual physical space to hold them isn't required. This is just my guess.  

Bernard Guignard

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2003, 09:28:49 am »
Are these the same andromedans that Kirk and company had a run in where they reduced the crew of the enterprise into
polyhedral shapes if so perhaps they use that technology to reduce the size of thier satalite ships?  

Marauth

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2003, 10:20:39 am »
No, they were another race from Andromeda that fled from these ones.

Rogue

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Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2003, 10:58:47 am »
The Kelvin were they?

I thought that would be a fun development for an SFC adversary race. The Kelvin, as displaced nomads from andromeda, are scouting the milkyway for a new home. You could use some ship model set that you have been trying to find a way to use and equip them out. Perhaps put them in a monster slot and set them up under the philosophy that they want to destroy anyone who sees them to cover their escape from andromeda. That way you could justify an older set of Andro models (FD13 set or P81's) with stanard shielding and TR's and still have other sets of Andro models for the GAW mod if it comes together. I've conidered doing that myself as a low tech version of Andy and perhaps replace a pirate cartel. Just an idea.    

Sbloyd

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2003, 12:32:11 pm »
I always assumed that the Andro ships were high enough technology that critical systems weren't as space-consuming as local Galactic technology, freeing up internal room for satellite ships.

 

Desty_Nova

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2003, 06:35:33 pm »
Quote:

I always assumed that the Andro ships were high enough technology that critical systems weren't as space-consuming as local Galactic technology, freeing up internal room for satellite ships.

   





Even so, I don't see how it would be possible for an Andro capital ship to hold 3+ Destroyer sized vessels inside it.  

Reverend

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2003, 07:14:46 pm »
SFB sometimes has that capacity of not making sense (on top of annoying levels upon levels of rules)....
but, many sci-fi realms have that as well...

keep these Andros coming guys... they are all looking great:)  

NightStalker-SFC3

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Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2003, 11:48:14 pm »
Quote:

Excellent subject worthy of discussion-  As far as I know the only systematic description of fleet types for the Andromedeans is in Star Fleet Battles. Andromedeans have several unique technologies in SFB not depicted in SFC:

Tractor/Repulsor Beam: Heavy Weapon. Roughly equivelent to the Phaser 4 and PPD in Damage vs Range. Very good SFB weapon. Phaser 2 is their standard weapon, which is kinda sucky.

Power Absorber Panels: Their version of shields. Self explanatory. Could divert or bleed off some power from absorbed damage to power ship systems. Pretty cool tech.

Displacement Device: Giant transporter unit that instantly (but randomly) shifts position of a vessel so equipped 5 or 6 hexes (1 hex=10000 km.) Also used to deploy "Satellite Ships" by transporting them from inside the hanger to outside the mother ship. (no hanger doors, real timesaver!!!)  

The Andromedeans are one of my favorite SFB races. Very good weapons and unique tech allows different strategies when playing the andros.  




You answered the next two questions I had about the Andromedans. I was wondering what TR stood for, and I was wondering where the satellite ships would exit from the mothership.  

Rod O'neal

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2003, 11:53:12 pm »
The Andromedans have a lot of technologies that require bending/expanding the space continuim.

The displacement device (DisDev) removes a ship from the known boundaries/limits of "our" space and returns it instantly to "our" realm up to 120,000km from where it was.

The rapid transit network (RTN) allows for moving distances that, by normal warp technology, would require speeds of warp factor 15. Remember that warp 15 is not 15 times the speed of light. Warp 1 is the speed of light (1 to the 1st power) warp 3 is 9 times the speed of light (3 to the 3rd power) warp 15 is 3,269,017 times the speed of light (If I did my math right. ).

The temporal elevator (TE) has the effect of moving an object in a 4th dimensional direction without it ever leaving 3 dimensional space. For me, since I don't understand movement beyond 3D, the best description for this is to imagine the 2D playing map for SFB. The TE would move a base "up" from 1 to 10 hexes. (Andromedans can control the "height" of the elevator.) above the map. The rest of the players would only have the ability to maneuver in the 2D "world" while the Andromedan can use to a limited degree the 3rd dimension.

The hangers having a volume that is greater than the overall size of the mother ship is another capability of this technology.    

NightStalker-SFC3

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Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2003, 11:55:21 pm »
Maybe Andromedan ships are assigned a class by thier firepower not their size.  

NightStalker-SFC3

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Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2003, 12:02:00 am »
How powerful were the Tholians?

Is anyone planning to list all the races and their charactistics?  

NightStalker-SFC3

  • Guest
Re: GaW - Ship Design 101
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2003, 12:14:33 am »