Topic: Has any one else herd chirs lee has been edited out (Read 29155 times)

dangadget · « **Reply #120 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:15:32 pm »

personally, if you haven't read it yet, and found the original source material slow, then I wouldn't bother reading ROTK until after you've seen the film.

on the other hand, if you were like my sister, and loved the original works AFTER having seen the films, then go right ahead on

Harlax · « **Reply #121 on:** November 15, 2003, 06:58:39 pm »

Quote:

purists may wail and gnash their teeth all they want, but refusing to acknowledge the facts that an almost literal translation of LOTR to film was an impossibility changes nothing.

I don't deny it at all. Some ommisions and consolodations were inevitable. Which makes all the more bothersome the material Jackson dreamed up on his own. I can accept that it won't all fit in. I have a hard time accepting that Jackson uses up time for his own inventions that could have been better used for faithful material. Or when he does the sort of hatchet job he did on the character of Faramir. Completely unnecessary.

dangadget · « **Reply #122 on:** November 15, 2003, 08:12:21 pm »

i really don't understand all the fuss over Faramir....

when reading the books for the first time, lo these many ages ago

, I was immediately left with the impression that he was a goody two-shoes, non-interesting, almost deus ex machina character.

Walsh's/Boyen's/Jackson's Faramir has actual HUMAN qualities which I can relate to in a film far better than I would to Tolkien's literary Faramir.

i have read the arguments; that Faramir was resistant to the temptation of the Ring due to his goodness, etc, etc....

that may work in a book; but from a cinematic standpoint, all it serves to do is weaken the overall impact you've been trying to establish that the Ring is evil; it is powerful; it is corrupting, even to those whose intentions are good.

i think that the extended version of TTT(3 more days

) will give even more substance to Faramir's character, and i am looking forward to it.

Harlax · « **Reply #123 on:** November 16, 2003, 05:40:02 am »

Read again my friend. Faramir was tempted. He passed the test in the book, but did it in the secret hideout. Jackson feels the need to drag everybody back to Osgiliaith to accomplish this.

At the best this is a waste of time and appears to be an intentional thumbing of the nose at the storyline of the books.

At the worst...

Reread the Akalabeth section of the Silmarilian. Faramir is a descendent of the Numenorians. The greater part of whom where seduced to their doom by Sauron. Sauron deceived them into thinking they could challenge the Valar for the lordship of Arda. But there were those who resisted Sauron. The faithful. These escaped the wreckage of Numenor. Faramir's role in LOTR is much the same. He is able to resist. Just as Elendil and the faithful did in Numenor. - Poor Elendil, gets offed in the opening narration without any recognition. Just some dude with a sword we're going to need later. But then he doesn't "fit" Jackson's revised story line does he?

A goody two shoes cardboard character? Hardly. Faramir and Boromir encapsulate the entire history of men. Sometimes proud and arrogant, but also capable of greatness. In fact it's Jackson's Faramir who is the cardboard cutout. Nothing more than a Boromir clone.

dangadget · « **Reply #124 on:** November 16, 2003, 09:02:00 am »

with respect, I know all that, but consider what you are saying.

you are speaking as a purist and an informed reader of Tolkien's background material.

now think of the intended audience for the movies.

see the difference?

its all fine and dandy for _you_ to say that because _you_ know the backstory.(i learned it later too btw, but remember, i am referring to my first reading, back when I was still a kid with long hair

) but the average viewer will see only this guy who has every reason in the world to be tempted by the Ring and be hostile and suspicious of the hobbits acting like their boy scout troupe leader instead.

"headed to Mordor? sure, lemme help ya out there buddy!"

again, with respect, this is the kind of almost deliberate blindness that die-hard Tolkien purists seem to display when bashing the films.

i honestly don't get it, as nothing about the films takes anything away from the written works, so why not just take them both for what they are?

one as a literary masterpiece, and the other as a well done _adaptation_ , not literal _translation_of said masterpiece?

Harlax · « **Reply #125 on:** November 16, 2003, 09:44:05 am »

I've watched both films, bought both film, enjoyed both films.

Adaptation was necesary. And certain to produce gnashing of teeth among serious readers. As to casual viewers, well a cynic once said no one went broke underestimating the taste of the public. Movie viewers routinely enjoy movies with plot holes large enough for the host of the Rohirrim to charge through. Those kind of viewers would have swallowed a goody two shoes Faramir without even chewing.

Let me just leave it at this.

I simply disagree that the specific changes made to Faramir, the Ents and to a lesser extent, Rohan were necesary to adapt the story. Jackson chose to tell another story. Its still a pretty good story. It just didn't have to happen that way.

And it could have far worse. From the infamous Tolkein Sarcasm site...

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/pitch.htm

or

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/two_hour.htm

TO: Miramax Studios
FROM: Storyline Editor
RE: 'Lord of Rings' story

Ok, Jack -- I read this grossly oversized book, and I think we can handle it, but we have got to slim-n-trim this one big time to get it into our 2:07 frame. Luckily, 2/3 of this book is just dead weight. Proposed cuts:

Merry and Pippin, or at least one of them. Too easy to confuse. Too many Hobbits.
Sam. Sure, he's got the supporting role, but isn't Frodo's lone struggle against impossible odds twice as heroic without him?
Faramir. Wussy, non-heroic character - all he does is to get shot and lie around in agony. A waste of scenes. Better to keep Boromir alive, use him in later scenes.
Imrahil. Who cares?
Saruman. Needless duplication of a villain.
Kingdom of Rohan & its inhabitants. Needless duplication of a kingdom.
Ents. Talking trees? Makes me think of 'The Wizard of Oz'.
Nine Black Riders. Reduce to three.

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #130 on:** November 17, 2003, 07:51:50 pm »

Hstaphath_XC · « **Reply #131 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:28:40 am »

Have you guys seen this?

Corbomite · « **Reply #132 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:49:48 am »

Hstaphath!!!

Scott Allen Abfalter · « **Reply #134 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:00:33 am »

I'd like to say that I am _HAPPY_ the Sauruman/Shire scenes were left out. I did not like them in the original book, just like I disliked the whole Tom Bombadil silliness. It distracted from the real story of the Ring. Kudos to the director for not spoiling his movie, that sort of stuff is perfect for the "Extended" edition.

I read a joke recently that said that the 3rd movie would be ABSOLUTELY true to the 3rd book: The story of the ring would be resolved in the first hour, then the final two hours would be the director in front of a whiteboard talking about how dwarven runes are pronounced.

762 · « **Reply #135 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:52:31 am »

Sucker!! I got mine on ebay for only $1600!!

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #137 on:** November 18, 2003, 06:54:56 pm »

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #138 on:** November 19, 2003, 05:33:29 pm »

News:

Topic: Has any one else herd chirs lee has been edited out (Read 29155 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

dangadget

Harlax

dangadget

Harlax

dangadget

Harlax

Sethan

Corbomite

Barabbas

762

IKV Nemesis D7L

Hstaphath_XC

Corbomite

Fahrenheit

Scott Allen Abfalter

762

Dogmatix!

IKV Nemesis D7L

IKV Nemesis D7L

Harlax

Topic: Has any one else herd chirs lee has been edited out (Read 29155 times)