Topic: Has any one else herd chirs lee has been edited out (Read 29108 times)

LongTooth · « **on:** November 12, 2003, 12:59:17 pm »

Of the third lords of the rings film?

just herd it on the radio not sure if its true (but they did say he told them its true and he's not going to the opening of the film next month)

Gambler · « **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2003, 01:59:12 pm »

I haven't read The Return of the King, but based on the previous movies, I would find it highly unlikely that his character would be edited out of the film. He would have to be replaced by another actor in the part and since they filmed the movies all together, the news would have come out long ago.

Therefore I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's most likely just a nasty rumor.

KOTH-Steel Claw · « **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2003, 02:03:40 pm »

Not able to verify rumor.

Sethan · « **Reply #3 on:** November 12, 2003, 02:13:33 pm »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3265475.stm

Rings director cuts wizard scenes

Actor Christopher Lee has said he was mystified to learn that his key scenes have been dropped from the third Lord of the Rings movie.
Lee, 81, who plays the wizard Saruman in the trilogy, said he had expected to appear in seven minutes' worth of climactic scenes.

"Of course I am very shocked, that's all I can say," he told ITV1's This Morning on Wednesday.

He now plans to boycott the film's première in December this year.

"As far as I'm concerned, I'm only telling you this because it has been revealed on the internet, someone has talked and it certainly wasn't me," he told the UK TV show.

"If you want to know why you would have to ask the company New Line or director Peter Jackson and his associates because I still don't really know why.

"I can't say any more because I signed a confidentiality agreement and I honoured my word."

Asked if he would attend the première, he said: "No, what's the point? What's the point of going? None at all."

Christopher Lee fans have started a website petition to restore the scenes.

Lee, who also appears as Count Dooku in the Star Wars films, said appearing in the first two Lord of the Rings movie had been "a dream come true".

Sirgod · « **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2003, 02:19:52 pm »

How are they going to end the movie without him and Wormtungue (sp) at the Hobbit shire? that was the One of the most memorable parts of the book as far as Samwise and co where concered. It ended there Character Development perfectly.

Stephen

Toasty0 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 12, 2003, 03:39:03 pm »

LOL...omg, these H'wood marketing types will do anything to hype a film these days.

Very smart if you ask me. Get a grassroots campaign going to "restore foootage" of *a main plot point character* to a film that would otherwise be crap without it. What a win/win hype. Kudos to the guy/gal/group that cooked up this scheme.

Best,
Jerry

Sethan · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2003, 03:53:00 pm »

Quote:

LOL...omg, these H'wood marketing types will do anything to hype a film these days.

Very smart if you ask me. Get a grassroots campaign going to "restore foootage" of *a main plot point character* to a film that would otherwise be crap without it. What a win/win hype. Kudos to the guy/gal/group that cooked up this scheme.

Let's hope you're right.

Barabbas · « **Reply #7 on:** November 12, 2003, 03:55:11 pm »

It's been done, but was good enough for a second spin....

LOTR's newest character

Wellington, New Zealand - A recently leaked trailer for The Return of the King has Tolkien fans outraged over the apparent addition of a new character - Jar-Jaromir. The scene depicted in the trailer shows Jar-Jaromir shouting, "Gondora gonna fallsa";
he then trips over a corpse and knocks down a couple of Uruk-hai.

Producers of The Lord of the Rings trilogy confirmed the addition of the half-brother of Boromir and Faramir.

"While The Two Towers is performing better at the box office than The Fellowship of the Ring, we are worried about a demographic that is skewing much older than desired. More mature fans are very good to have, but it's the younger fans who buy the merchandise. That's really what brings in the bucks on a movie like this," said producer Tim Wilcox.

"People complained a lot about Gimli just being there for comic relief," continued Wilcox. "We answer that criticism by directing the humor through Jar-Jaromir in The Return of the King. There's this funny scene where Jar-Jaromir decides it's best to hand the ring over to Sauron, but then he drops it and kicks it into Mount Doom. Hi-larious."

Purists, miffed by the deviations in The Two Towers, were so enraged by Jar-Jaromir as to be rendered speechless. A less pure, calmer fan who was able to form words said, "Tolkien mentioned a lot of different races and creatures, but never a Gungan or even a half-Gungan. I think I'm going to vomit."

One fan tried to rationalize the move. "Maybe the Star Wars universe and Middle-earth intersect. Middle-earth certainly is a long time ago and why couldn't it be in 'a galaxy far, far away?' Nothing said it's our earth." He then broke down and started crying.

Director Peter Jackson explained how the Jar-Jaromir character was added after all the other footage had already been shot. "That's the brilliant thing about digital editing and graphics. We didn't even imagine Jar-Jaromir in the movie until a couple of weeks ago, but now we can just edit him right into the key scenes. I really think it's going to be a hit with the toddlers."

Jackson added, "I just love it when he shouts, 'Yousa steala precious from meesa!'"

msnevil · « **Reply #8 on:** November 12, 2003, 04:05:15 pm »

The director\suits proberly thinks his\thier revisionist version is "better' then Tolkans version. And They proberly think they are successfull on thier own merit, and not the true reason. Tolkan was a Genius when he wrote his morality play. And if they were smart.They would leave the book the way it is and was.

Toasty0 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 12, 2003, 04:08:46 pm »

Too funny!

Taldren_Erin · « **Reply #10 on:** November 12, 2003, 04:57:08 pm »

I just choked on my tea. =P Too funny.

NCC2012 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 12, 2003, 08:00:54 pm »

"Is some orcas gonna die?"

RazalYllib · « **Reply #18 on:** November 13, 2003, 07:48:27 pm »

Perhaps, the Key Saruman Scenes will be in TTT-EE.

Lets look at it this way, with NO Scouring of the Shire, all that is left for Saruman is the showdown w/ Gandolf and Co at the base of Orthanc and Wormtongue throws the Palantir at Gandolf.

My prediction is that this scene "may" be in TTT-EE or in the ROTK.

Another prediction is that after the Palantir toss, Saruman and Wormtongue have a melee and Saruman falls and is impelled on the Spikey Wheel thingy that was leaked out many moons ago. Finis for Wormtongue and Saruman, there is no further use for them in the plot sans the Scouring of the Shire.

I belive the ending will "fast forward", possibley with narration from Bilbo, Sam, Frodo or Galadrial to the Grey Havens and end with the ship going accross the Sea to Valinor.

762 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2003, 09:15:55 am »

"The Voice of Saruman" - one of the best chapters of ROTK.

I hope it makes it in the DVD.

Strafer · « **Reply #21 on:** November 15, 2003, 03:05:05 am »

I caught something earlier this week on Aint-It-Cool-News regarding this:

The Saruman scenes were initially set to appear at the very start of ROTK for like 7 minutes, but spoiled the flow to push the new story forward. They were basically the fall of Isengard, recap style. Scene was cut, and film edited in a more "moving on along" theme.
Those scenes will however be included in the ROTK:EE as home viewing isn't as crucial for flow.

So, Mr. Lee can decide to not attend the premiere, but in a year when the Ext. ver. comes out, he may decide to appear at his local movie megastore.

Demandred · « **Reply #22 on:** November 15, 2003, 07:46:56 am »

I've heard the reason for it is that the film was already 3 hours and 20 minutes long, and if it was any longer they would have to have a break for technical reasons.

dangadget · « **Reply #23 on:** November 15, 2003, 02:51:01 pm »

already confirmed that Saruman's and Wormtongue's commupence scenes have been cut from the theatrical release of ROTK, but will be included in the extended DVD edition to be released next year.

Peter Jackson states that the reason for this was pacing, as the scenes as filmed felt like a wrap up to TTT rather than an introduction to ROTK, which is what they needed.

and yes, it has been known for a very long time by people closely following the films that there would be NO scouring of the Shire.

purists may wail and gnash their teeth all they want, but refusing to acknowledge the facts that an almost literal translation of LOTR to film was an impossibility changes nothing.

the films still stand on their own as great _interpretations_of Tolkiens books, and I for one am looking forward to the concluding film(and looking forward even more to the last extended DVD)

Commander Xizor · « **Reply #24 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:05:52 pm »

Kind of on a related note, I am trying to decide if I should read ROTK before the movie comes out. After watching FOTR and TTT, I read those books, but I haven't gotten around to ROTK yet. In general, I thought the movies were excellent, but the books a little dull at times.

Should I read it now or wait?

Sethan · « **Reply #25 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:13:41 pm »

Read it now. That way the peripheral events in the movie will make sense.

dangadget · « **Reply #26 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:15:32 pm »

personally, if you haven't read it yet, and found the original source material slow, then I wouldn't bother reading ROTK until after you've seen the film.

on the other hand, if you were like my sister, and loved the original works AFTER having seen the films, then go right ahead on

dangadget · « **Reply #28 on:** November 15, 2003, 08:12:21 pm »

i really don't understand all the fuss over Faramir....

when reading the books for the first time, lo these many ages ago

, I was immediately left with the impression that he was a goody two-shoes, non-interesting, almost deus ex machina character.

Walsh's/Boyen's/Jackson's Faramir has actual HUMAN qualities which I can relate to in a film far better than I would to Tolkien's literary Faramir.

i have read the arguments; that Faramir was resistant to the temptation of the Ring due to his goodness, etc, etc....

that may work in a book; but from a cinematic standpoint, all it serves to do is weaken the overall impact you've been trying to establish that the Ring is evil; it is powerful; it is corrupting, even to those whose intentions are good.

i think that the extended version of TTT(3 more days

) will give even more substance to Faramir's character, and i am looking forward to it.

Harlax · « **Reply #29 on:** November 16, 2003, 05:40:02 am »

Read again my friend. Faramir was tempted. He passed the test in the book, but did it in the secret hideout. Jackson feels the need to drag everybody back to Osgiliaith to accomplish this.

At the best this is a waste of time and appears to be an intentional thumbing of the nose at the storyline of the books.

At the worst...

Reread the Akalabeth section of the Silmarilian. Faramir is a descendent of the Numenorians. The greater part of whom where seduced to their doom by Sauron. Sauron deceived them into thinking they could challenge the Valar for the lordship of Arda. But there were those who resisted Sauron. The faithful. These escaped the wreckage of Numenor. Faramir's role in LOTR is much the same. He is able to resist. Just as Elendil and the faithful did in Numenor. - Poor Elendil, gets offed in the opening narration without any recognition. Just some dude with a sword we're going to need later. But then he doesn't "fit" Jackson's revised story line does he?

A goody two shoes cardboard character? Hardly. Faramir and Boromir encapsulate the entire history of men. Sometimes proud and arrogant, but also capable of greatness. In fact it's Jackson's Faramir who is the cardboard cutout. Nothing more than a Boromir clone.

dangadget · « **Reply #30 on:** November 16, 2003, 09:02:00 am »

with respect, I know all that, but consider what you are saying.

you are speaking as a purist and an informed reader of Tolkien's background material.

now think of the intended audience for the movies.

see the difference?

its all fine and dandy for _you_ to say that because _you_ know the backstory.(i learned it later too btw, but remember, i am referring to my first reading, back when I was still a kid with long hair

) but the average viewer will see only this guy who has every reason in the world to be tempted by the Ring and be hostile and suspicious of the hobbits acting like their boy scout troupe leader instead.

"headed to Mordor? sure, lemme help ya out there buddy!"

again, with respect, this is the kind of almost deliberate blindness that die-hard Tolkien purists seem to display when bashing the films.

i honestly don't get it, as nothing about the films takes anything away from the written works, so why not just take them both for what they are?

one as a literary masterpiece, and the other as a well done _adaptation_ , not literal _translation_of said masterpiece?

Harlax · « **Reply #31 on:** November 16, 2003, 09:44:05 am »

I've watched both films, bought both film, enjoyed both films.

Adaptation was necesary. And certain to produce gnashing of teeth among serious readers. As to casual viewers, well a cynic once said no one went broke underestimating the taste of the public. Movie viewers routinely enjoy movies with plot holes large enough for the host of the Rohirrim to charge through. Those kind of viewers would have swallowed a goody two shoes Faramir without even chewing.

Let me just leave it at this.

I simply disagree that the specific changes made to Faramir, the Ents and to a lesser extent, Rohan were necesary to adapt the story. Jackson chose to tell another story. Its still a pretty good story. It just didn't have to happen that way.

And it could have far worse. From the infamous Tolkein Sarcasm site...

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/pitch.htm

or

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/two_hour.htm

TO: Miramax Studios
FROM: Storyline Editor
RE: 'Lord of Rings' story

Ok, Jack -- I read this grossly oversized book, and I think we can handle it, but we have got to slim-n-trim this one big time to get it into our 2:07 frame. Luckily, 2/3 of this book is just dead weight. Proposed cuts:

Merry and Pippin, or at least one of them. Too easy to confuse. Too many Hobbits.
Sam. Sure, he's got the supporting role, but isn't Frodo's lone struggle against impossible odds twice as heroic without him?
Faramir. Wussy, non-heroic character - all he does is to get shot and lie around in agony. A waste of scenes. Better to keep Boromir alive, use him in later scenes.
Imrahil. Who cares?
Saruman. Needless duplication of a villain.
Kingdom of Rohan & its inhabitants. Needless duplication of a kingdom.
Ents. Talking trees? Makes me think of 'The Wizard of Oz'.
Nine Black Riders. Reduce to three.

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #36 on:** November 17, 2003, 07:51:50 pm »

Hstaphath_XC · « **Reply #37 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:28:40 am »

Have you guys seen this?

Corbomite · « **Reply #38 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:49:48 am »

Hstaphath!!!

Scott Allen Abfalter · « **Reply #40 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:00:33 am »

I'd like to say that I am _HAPPY_ the Sauruman/Shire scenes were left out. I did not like them in the original book, just like I disliked the whole Tom Bombadil silliness. It distracted from the real story of the Ring. Kudos to the director for not spoiling his movie, that sort of stuff is perfect for the "Extended" edition.

I read a joke recently that said that the 3rd movie would be ABSOLUTELY true to the 3rd book: The story of the ring would be resolved in the first hour, then the final two hours would be the director in front of a whiteboard talking about how dwarven runes are pronounced.

762 · « **Reply #41 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:52:31 am »

Sucker!! I got mine on ebay for only $1600!!

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #43 on:** November 18, 2003, 06:54:56 pm »

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #44 on:** November 19, 2003, 05:33:29 pm »

LongTooth · « **Reply #47 on:** November 12, 2003, 12:59:17 pm »

Of the third lords of the rings film?

just herd it on the radio not sure if its true (but they did say he told them its true and he's not going to the opening of the film next month)

Gambler · « **Reply #48 on:** November 12, 2003, 01:59:12 pm »

I haven't read The Return of the King, but based on the previous movies, I would find it highly unlikely that his character would be edited out of the film. He would have to be replaced by another actor in the part and since they filmed the movies all together, the news would have come out long ago.

Therefore I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's most likely just a nasty rumor.

KOTH-Steel Claw · « **Reply #49 on:** November 12, 2003, 02:03:40 pm »

Not able to verify rumor.

Sethan · « **Reply #50 on:** November 12, 2003, 02:13:33 pm »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3265475.stm

Rings director cuts wizard scenes

Actor Christopher Lee has said he was mystified to learn that his key scenes have been dropped from the third Lord of the Rings movie.
Lee, 81, who plays the wizard Saruman in the trilogy, said he had expected to appear in seven minutes' worth of climactic scenes.

"Of course I am very shocked, that's all I can say," he told ITV1's This Morning on Wednesday.

He now plans to boycott the film's première in December this year.

"As far as I'm concerned, I'm only telling you this because it has been revealed on the internet, someone has talked and it certainly wasn't me," he told the UK TV show.

"If you want to know why you would have to ask the company New Line or director Peter Jackson and his associates because I still don't really know why.

"I can't say any more because I signed a confidentiality agreement and I honoured my word."

Asked if he would attend the première, he said: "No, what's the point? What's the point of going? None at all."

Christopher Lee fans have started a website petition to restore the scenes.

Lee, who also appears as Count Dooku in the Star Wars films, said appearing in the first two Lord of the Rings movie had been "a dream come true".

Sirgod · « **Reply #51 on:** November 12, 2003, 02:19:52 pm »

How are they going to end the movie without him and Wormtungue (sp) at the Hobbit shire? that was the One of the most memorable parts of the book as far as Samwise and co where concered. It ended there Character Development perfectly.

Stephen

Toasty0 · « **Reply #52 on:** November 12, 2003, 03:39:03 pm »

LOL...omg, these H'wood marketing types will do anything to hype a film these days.

Very smart if you ask me. Get a grassroots campaign going to "restore foootage" of *a main plot point character* to a film that would otherwise be crap without it. What a win/win hype. Kudos to the guy/gal/group that cooked up this scheme.

Best,
Jerry

Barabbas · « **Reply #54 on:** November 12, 2003, 03:55:11 pm »

It's been done, but was good enough for a second spin....

LOTR's newest character

Wellington, New Zealand - A recently leaked trailer for The Return of the King has Tolkien fans outraged over the apparent addition of a new character - Jar-Jaromir. The scene depicted in the trailer shows Jar-Jaromir shouting, "Gondora gonna fallsa";
he then trips over a corpse and knocks down a couple of Uruk-hai.

Producers of The Lord of the Rings trilogy confirmed the addition of the half-brother of Boromir and Faramir.

"While The Two Towers is performing better at the box office than The Fellowship of the Ring, we are worried about a demographic that is skewing much older than desired. More mature fans are very good to have, but it's the younger fans who buy the merchandise. That's really what brings in the bucks on a movie like this," said producer Tim Wilcox.

"People complained a lot about Gimli just being there for comic relief," continued Wilcox. "We answer that criticism by directing the humor through Jar-Jaromir in The Return of the King. There's this funny scene where Jar-Jaromir decides it's best to hand the ring over to Sauron, but then he drops it and kicks it into Mount Doom. Hi-larious."

Purists, miffed by the deviations in The Two Towers, were so enraged by Jar-Jaromir as to be rendered speechless. A less pure, calmer fan who was able to form words said, "Tolkien mentioned a lot of different races and creatures, but never a Gungan or even a half-Gungan. I think I'm going to vomit."

One fan tried to rationalize the move. "Maybe the Star Wars universe and Middle-earth intersect. Middle-earth certainly is a long time ago and why couldn't it be in 'a galaxy far, far away?' Nothing said it's our earth." He then broke down and started crying.

Director Peter Jackson explained how the Jar-Jaromir character was added after all the other footage had already been shot. "That's the brilliant thing about digital editing and graphics. We didn't even imagine Jar-Jaromir in the movie until a couple of weeks ago, but now we can just edit him right into the key scenes. I really think it's going to be a hit with the toddlers."

Jackson added, "I just love it when he shouts, 'Yousa steala precious from meesa!'"

msnevil · « **Reply #55 on:** November 12, 2003, 04:05:15 pm »

The director\suits proberly thinks his\thier revisionist version is "better' then Tolkans version. And They proberly think they are successfull on thier own merit, and not the true reason. Tolkan was a Genius when he wrote his morality play. And if they were smart.They would leave the book the way it is and was.

Toasty0 · « **Reply #56 on:** November 12, 2003, 04:08:46 pm »

Too funny!

Taldren_Erin · « **Reply #57 on:** November 12, 2003, 04:57:08 pm »

I just choked on my tea. =P Too funny.

NCC2012 · « **Reply #61 on:** November 12, 2003, 08:00:54 pm »

"Is some orcas gonna die?"

RazalYllib · « **Reply #65 on:** November 13, 2003, 07:48:27 pm »

Perhaps, the Key Saruman Scenes will be in TTT-EE.

Lets look at it this way, with NO Scouring of the Shire, all that is left for Saruman is the showdown w/ Gandolf and Co at the base of Orthanc and Wormtongue throws the Palantir at Gandolf.

My prediction is that this scene "may" be in TTT-EE or in the ROTK.

Another prediction is that after the Palantir toss, Saruman and Wormtongue have a melee and Saruman falls and is impelled on the Spikey Wheel thingy that was leaked out many moons ago. Finis for Wormtongue and Saruman, there is no further use for them in the plot sans the Scouring of the Shire.

I belive the ending will "fast forward", possibley with narration from Bilbo, Sam, Frodo or Galadrial to the Grey Havens and end with the ship going accross the Sea to Valinor.

762 · « **Reply #66 on:** November 14, 2003, 09:15:55 am »

"The Voice of Saruman" - one of the best chapters of ROTK.

I hope it makes it in the DVD.

Strafer · « **Reply #68 on:** November 15, 2003, 03:05:05 am »

I caught something earlier this week on Aint-It-Cool-News regarding this:

The Saruman scenes were initially set to appear at the very start of ROTK for like 7 minutes, but spoiled the flow to push the new story forward. They were basically the fall of Isengard, recap style. Scene was cut, and film edited in a more "moving on along" theme.
Those scenes will however be included in the ROTK:EE as home viewing isn't as crucial for flow.

So, Mr. Lee can decide to not attend the premiere, but in a year when the Ext. ver. comes out, he may decide to appear at his local movie megastore.

Demandred · « **Reply #69 on:** November 15, 2003, 07:46:56 am »

I've heard the reason for it is that the film was already 3 hours and 20 minutes long, and if it was any longer they would have to have a break for technical reasons.

dangadget · « **Reply #70 on:** November 15, 2003, 02:51:01 pm »

already confirmed that Saruman's and Wormtongue's commupence scenes have been cut from the theatrical release of ROTK, but will be included in the extended DVD edition to be released next year.

Peter Jackson states that the reason for this was pacing, as the scenes as filmed felt like a wrap up to TTT rather than an introduction to ROTK, which is what they needed.

and yes, it has been known for a very long time by people closely following the films that there would be NO scouring of the Shire.

purists may wail and gnash their teeth all they want, but refusing to acknowledge the facts that an almost literal translation of LOTR to film was an impossibility changes nothing.

the films still stand on their own as great _interpretations_of Tolkiens books, and I for one am looking forward to the concluding film(and looking forward even more to the last extended DVD)

Commander Xizor · « **Reply #71 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:05:52 pm »

Kind of on a related note, I am trying to decide if I should read ROTK before the movie comes out. After watching FOTR and TTT, I read those books, but I haven't gotten around to ROTK yet. In general, I thought the movies were excellent, but the books a little dull at times.

Should I read it now or wait?

Sethan · « **Reply #72 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:13:41 pm »

Read it now. That way the peripheral events in the movie will make sense.

dangadget · « **Reply #73 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:15:32 pm »

personally, if you haven't read it yet, and found the original source material slow, then I wouldn't bother reading ROTK until after you've seen the film.

on the other hand, if you were like my sister, and loved the original works AFTER having seen the films, then go right ahead on

dangadget · « **Reply #75 on:** November 15, 2003, 08:12:21 pm »

i really don't understand all the fuss over Faramir....

when reading the books for the first time, lo these many ages ago

, I was immediately left with the impression that he was a goody two-shoes, non-interesting, almost deus ex machina character.

Walsh's/Boyen's/Jackson's Faramir has actual HUMAN qualities which I can relate to in a film far better than I would to Tolkien's literary Faramir.

i have read the arguments; that Faramir was resistant to the temptation of the Ring due to his goodness, etc, etc....

that may work in a book; but from a cinematic standpoint, all it serves to do is weaken the overall impact you've been trying to establish that the Ring is evil; it is powerful; it is corrupting, even to those whose intentions are good.

i think that the extended version of TTT(3 more days

) will give even more substance to Faramir's character, and i am looking forward to it.

Harlax · « **Reply #76 on:** November 16, 2003, 05:40:02 am »

Read again my friend. Faramir was tempted. He passed the test in the book, but did it in the secret hideout. Jackson feels the need to drag everybody back to Osgiliaith to accomplish this.

At the best this is a waste of time and appears to be an intentional thumbing of the nose at the storyline of the books.

At the worst...

Reread the Akalabeth section of the Silmarilian. Faramir is a descendent of the Numenorians. The greater part of whom where seduced to their doom by Sauron. Sauron deceived them into thinking they could challenge the Valar for the lordship of Arda. But there were those who resisted Sauron. The faithful. These escaped the wreckage of Numenor. Faramir's role in LOTR is much the same. He is able to resist. Just as Elendil and the faithful did in Numenor. - Poor Elendil, gets offed in the opening narration without any recognition. Just some dude with a sword we're going to need later. But then he doesn't "fit" Jackson's revised story line does he?

A goody two shoes cardboard character? Hardly. Faramir and Boromir encapsulate the entire history of men. Sometimes proud and arrogant, but also capable of greatness. In fact it's Jackson's Faramir who is the cardboard cutout. Nothing more than a Boromir clone.

dangadget · « **Reply #77 on:** November 16, 2003, 09:02:00 am »

with respect, I know all that, but consider what you are saying.

you are speaking as a purist and an informed reader of Tolkien's background material.

now think of the intended audience for the movies.

see the difference?

its all fine and dandy for _you_ to say that because _you_ know the backstory.(i learned it later too btw, but remember, i am referring to my first reading, back when I was still a kid with long hair

) but the average viewer will see only this guy who has every reason in the world to be tempted by the Ring and be hostile and suspicious of the hobbits acting like their boy scout troupe leader instead.

"headed to Mordor? sure, lemme help ya out there buddy!"

again, with respect, this is the kind of almost deliberate blindness that die-hard Tolkien purists seem to display when bashing the films.

i honestly don't get it, as nothing about the films takes anything away from the written works, so why not just take them both for what they are?

one as a literary masterpiece, and the other as a well done _adaptation_ , not literal _translation_of said masterpiece?

Harlax · « **Reply #78 on:** November 16, 2003, 09:44:05 am »

I've watched both films, bought both film, enjoyed both films.

Adaptation was necesary. And certain to produce gnashing of teeth among serious readers. As to casual viewers, well a cynic once said no one went broke underestimating the taste of the public. Movie viewers routinely enjoy movies with plot holes large enough for the host of the Rohirrim to charge through. Those kind of viewers would have swallowed a goody two shoes Faramir without even chewing.

Let me just leave it at this.

I simply disagree that the specific changes made to Faramir, the Ents and to a lesser extent, Rohan were necesary to adapt the story. Jackson chose to tell another story. Its still a pretty good story. It just didn't have to happen that way.

And it could have far worse. From the infamous Tolkein Sarcasm site...

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/pitch.htm

or

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/two_hour.htm

TO: Miramax Studios
FROM: Storyline Editor
RE: 'Lord of Rings' story

Ok, Jack -- I read this grossly oversized book, and I think we can handle it, but we have got to slim-n-trim this one big time to get it into our 2:07 frame. Luckily, 2/3 of this book is just dead weight. Proposed cuts:

Merry and Pippin, or at least one of them. Too easy to confuse. Too many Hobbits.
Sam. Sure, he's got the supporting role, but isn't Frodo's lone struggle against impossible odds twice as heroic without him?
Faramir. Wussy, non-heroic character - all he does is to get shot and lie around in agony. A waste of scenes. Better to keep Boromir alive, use him in later scenes.
Imrahil. Who cares?
Saruman. Needless duplication of a villain.
Kingdom of Rohan & its inhabitants. Needless duplication of a kingdom.
Ents. Talking trees? Makes me think of 'The Wizard of Oz'.
Nine Black Riders. Reduce to three.

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #83 on:** November 17, 2003, 07:51:50 pm »

Hstaphath_XC · « **Reply #84 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:28:40 am »

Have you guys seen this?

Corbomite · « **Reply #85 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:49:48 am »

Hstaphath!!!

Scott Allen Abfalter · « **Reply #87 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:00:33 am »

I'd like to say that I am _HAPPY_ the Sauruman/Shire scenes were left out. I did not like them in the original book, just like I disliked the whole Tom Bombadil silliness. It distracted from the real story of the Ring. Kudos to the director for not spoiling his movie, that sort of stuff is perfect for the "Extended" edition.

I read a joke recently that said that the 3rd movie would be ABSOLUTELY true to the 3rd book: The story of the ring would be resolved in the first hour, then the final two hours would be the director in front of a whiteboard talking about how dwarven runes are pronounced.

762 · « **Reply #88 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:52:31 am »

Sucker!! I got mine on ebay for only $1600!!

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #90 on:** November 18, 2003, 06:54:56 pm »

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #91 on:** November 19, 2003, 05:33:29 pm »

LongTooth · « **Reply #94 on:** November 12, 2003, 12:59:17 pm »

Of the third lords of the rings film?

just herd it on the radio not sure if its true (but they did say he told them its true and he's not going to the opening of the film next month)

Gambler · « **Reply #95 on:** November 12, 2003, 01:59:12 pm »

I haven't read The Return of the King, but based on the previous movies, I would find it highly unlikely that his character would be edited out of the film. He would have to be replaced by another actor in the part and since they filmed the movies all together, the news would have come out long ago.

Therefore I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's most likely just a nasty rumor.

KOTH-Steel Claw · « **Reply #96 on:** November 12, 2003, 02:03:40 pm »

Not able to verify rumor.

Sethan · « **Reply #97 on:** November 12, 2003, 02:13:33 pm »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3265475.stm

Rings director cuts wizard scenes

Actor Christopher Lee has said he was mystified to learn that his key scenes have been dropped from the third Lord of the Rings movie.
Lee, 81, who plays the wizard Saruman in the trilogy, said he had expected to appear in seven minutes' worth of climactic scenes.

"Of course I am very shocked, that's all I can say," he told ITV1's This Morning on Wednesday.

He now plans to boycott the film's première in December this year.

"As far as I'm concerned, I'm only telling you this because it has been revealed on the internet, someone has talked and it certainly wasn't me," he told the UK TV show.

"If you want to know why you would have to ask the company New Line or director Peter Jackson and his associates because I still don't really know why.

"I can't say any more because I signed a confidentiality agreement and I honoured my word."

Asked if he would attend the première, he said: "No, what's the point? What's the point of going? None at all."

Christopher Lee fans have started a website petition to restore the scenes.

Lee, who also appears as Count Dooku in the Star Wars films, said appearing in the first two Lord of the Rings movie had been "a dream come true".

Sirgod · « **Reply #98 on:** November 12, 2003, 02:19:52 pm »

How are they going to end the movie without him and Wormtungue (sp) at the Hobbit shire? that was the One of the most memorable parts of the book as far as Samwise and co where concered. It ended there Character Development perfectly.

Stephen

Toasty0 · « **Reply #99 on:** November 12, 2003, 03:39:03 pm »

LOL...omg, these H'wood marketing types will do anything to hype a film these days.

Very smart if you ask me. Get a grassroots campaign going to "restore foootage" of *a main plot point character* to a film that would otherwise be crap without it. What a win/win hype. Kudos to the guy/gal/group that cooked up this scheme.

Best,
Jerry

Barabbas · « **Reply #101 on:** November 12, 2003, 03:55:11 pm »

It's been done, but was good enough for a second spin....

LOTR's newest character

Wellington, New Zealand - A recently leaked trailer for The Return of the King has Tolkien fans outraged over the apparent addition of a new character - Jar-Jaromir. The scene depicted in the trailer shows Jar-Jaromir shouting, "Gondora gonna fallsa";
he then trips over a corpse and knocks down a couple of Uruk-hai.

Producers of The Lord of the Rings trilogy confirmed the addition of the half-brother of Boromir and Faramir.

"While The Two Towers is performing better at the box office than The Fellowship of the Ring, we are worried about a demographic that is skewing much older than desired. More mature fans are very good to have, but it's the younger fans who buy the merchandise. That's really what brings in the bucks on a movie like this," said producer Tim Wilcox.

"People complained a lot about Gimli just being there for comic relief," continued Wilcox. "We answer that criticism by directing the humor through Jar-Jaromir in The Return of the King. There's this funny scene where Jar-Jaromir decides it's best to hand the ring over to Sauron, but then he drops it and kicks it into Mount Doom. Hi-larious."

Purists, miffed by the deviations in The Two Towers, were so enraged by Jar-Jaromir as to be rendered speechless. A less pure, calmer fan who was able to form words said, "Tolkien mentioned a lot of different races and creatures, but never a Gungan or even a half-Gungan. I think I'm going to vomit."

One fan tried to rationalize the move. "Maybe the Star Wars universe and Middle-earth intersect. Middle-earth certainly is a long time ago and why couldn't it be in 'a galaxy far, far away?' Nothing said it's our earth." He then broke down and started crying.

Director Peter Jackson explained how the Jar-Jaromir character was added after all the other footage had already been shot. "That's the brilliant thing about digital editing and graphics. We didn't even imagine Jar-Jaromir in the movie until a couple of weeks ago, but now we can just edit him right into the key scenes. I really think it's going to be a hit with the toddlers."

Jackson added, "I just love it when he shouts, 'Yousa steala precious from meesa!'"

msnevil · « **Reply #102 on:** November 12, 2003, 04:05:15 pm »

The director\suits proberly thinks his\thier revisionist version is "better' then Tolkans version. And They proberly think they are successfull on thier own merit, and not the true reason. Tolkan was a Genius when he wrote his morality play. And if they were smart.They would leave the book the way it is and was.

Toasty0 · « **Reply #103 on:** November 12, 2003, 04:08:46 pm »

Too funny!

Taldren_Erin · « **Reply #104 on:** November 12, 2003, 04:57:08 pm »

I just choked on my tea. =P Too funny.

NCC2012 · « **Reply #108 on:** November 12, 2003, 08:00:54 pm »

"Is some orcas gonna die?"

RazalYllib · « **Reply #112 on:** November 13, 2003, 07:48:27 pm »

Perhaps, the Key Saruman Scenes will be in TTT-EE.

Lets look at it this way, with NO Scouring of the Shire, all that is left for Saruman is the showdown w/ Gandolf and Co at the base of Orthanc and Wormtongue throws the Palantir at Gandolf.

My prediction is that this scene "may" be in TTT-EE or in the ROTK.

Another prediction is that after the Palantir toss, Saruman and Wormtongue have a melee and Saruman falls and is impelled on the Spikey Wheel thingy that was leaked out many moons ago. Finis for Wormtongue and Saruman, there is no further use for them in the plot sans the Scouring of the Shire.

I belive the ending will "fast forward", possibley with narration from Bilbo, Sam, Frodo or Galadrial to the Grey Havens and end with the ship going accross the Sea to Valinor.

762 · « **Reply #113 on:** November 14, 2003, 09:15:55 am »

"The Voice of Saruman" - one of the best chapters of ROTK.

I hope it makes it in the DVD.

Strafer · « **Reply #115 on:** November 15, 2003, 03:05:05 am »

I caught something earlier this week on Aint-It-Cool-News regarding this:

The Saruman scenes were initially set to appear at the very start of ROTK for like 7 minutes, but spoiled the flow to push the new story forward. They were basically the fall of Isengard, recap style. Scene was cut, and film edited in a more "moving on along" theme.
Those scenes will however be included in the ROTK:EE as home viewing isn't as crucial for flow.

So, Mr. Lee can decide to not attend the premiere, but in a year when the Ext. ver. comes out, he may decide to appear at his local movie megastore.

Demandred · « **Reply #116 on:** November 15, 2003, 07:46:56 am »

I've heard the reason for it is that the film was already 3 hours and 20 minutes long, and if it was any longer they would have to have a break for technical reasons.

dangadget · « **Reply #117 on:** November 15, 2003, 02:51:01 pm »

already confirmed that Saruman's and Wormtongue's commupence scenes have been cut from the theatrical release of ROTK, but will be included in the extended DVD edition to be released next year.

Peter Jackson states that the reason for this was pacing, as the scenes as filmed felt like a wrap up to TTT rather than an introduction to ROTK, which is what they needed.

and yes, it has been known for a very long time by people closely following the films that there would be NO scouring of the Shire.

purists may wail and gnash their teeth all they want, but refusing to acknowledge the facts that an almost literal translation of LOTR to film was an impossibility changes nothing.

the films still stand on their own as great _interpretations_of Tolkiens books, and I for one am looking forward to the concluding film(and looking forward even more to the last extended DVD)

Commander Xizor · « **Reply #118 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:05:52 pm »

Kind of on a related note, I am trying to decide if I should read ROTK before the movie comes out. After watching FOTR and TTT, I read those books, but I haven't gotten around to ROTK yet. In general, I thought the movies were excellent, but the books a little dull at times.

Should I read it now or wait?

Sethan · « **Reply #119 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:13:41 pm »

Read it now. That way the peripheral events in the movie will make sense.

dangadget · « **Reply #120 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:15:32 pm »

personally, if you haven't read it yet, and found the original source material slow, then I wouldn't bother reading ROTK until after you've seen the film.

on the other hand, if you were like my sister, and loved the original works AFTER having seen the films, then go right ahead on

dangadget · « **Reply #122 on:** November 15, 2003, 08:12:21 pm »

i really don't understand all the fuss over Faramir....

when reading the books for the first time, lo these many ages ago

, I was immediately left with the impression that he was a goody two-shoes, non-interesting, almost deus ex machina character.

Walsh's/Boyen's/Jackson's Faramir has actual HUMAN qualities which I can relate to in a film far better than I would to Tolkien's literary Faramir.

i have read the arguments; that Faramir was resistant to the temptation of the Ring due to his goodness, etc, etc....

that may work in a book; but from a cinematic standpoint, all it serves to do is weaken the overall impact you've been trying to establish that the Ring is evil; it is powerful; it is corrupting, even to those whose intentions are good.

i think that the extended version of TTT(3 more days

) will give even more substance to Faramir's character, and i am looking forward to it.

Harlax · « **Reply #123 on:** November 16, 2003, 05:40:02 am »

Read again my friend. Faramir was tempted. He passed the test in the book, but did it in the secret hideout. Jackson feels the need to drag everybody back to Osgiliaith to accomplish this.

At the best this is a waste of time and appears to be an intentional thumbing of the nose at the storyline of the books.

At the worst...

Reread the Akalabeth section of the Silmarilian. Faramir is a descendent of the Numenorians. The greater part of whom where seduced to their doom by Sauron. Sauron deceived them into thinking they could challenge the Valar for the lordship of Arda. But there were those who resisted Sauron. The faithful. These escaped the wreckage of Numenor. Faramir's role in LOTR is much the same. He is able to resist. Just as Elendil and the faithful did in Numenor. - Poor Elendil, gets offed in the opening narration without any recognition. Just some dude with a sword we're going to need later. But then he doesn't "fit" Jackson's revised story line does he?

A goody two shoes cardboard character? Hardly. Faramir and Boromir encapsulate the entire history of men. Sometimes proud and arrogant, but also capable of greatness. In fact it's Jackson's Faramir who is the cardboard cutout. Nothing more than a Boromir clone.

dangadget · « **Reply #124 on:** November 16, 2003, 09:02:00 am »

with respect, I know all that, but consider what you are saying.

you are speaking as a purist and an informed reader of Tolkien's background material.

now think of the intended audience for the movies.

see the difference?

its all fine and dandy for _you_ to say that because _you_ know the backstory.(i learned it later too btw, but remember, i am referring to my first reading, back when I was still a kid with long hair

) but the average viewer will see only this guy who has every reason in the world to be tempted by the Ring and be hostile and suspicious of the hobbits acting like their boy scout troupe leader instead.

"headed to Mordor? sure, lemme help ya out there buddy!"

again, with respect, this is the kind of almost deliberate blindness that die-hard Tolkien purists seem to display when bashing the films.

i honestly don't get it, as nothing about the films takes anything away from the written works, so why not just take them both for what they are?

one as a literary masterpiece, and the other as a well done _adaptation_ , not literal _translation_of said masterpiece?

Harlax · « **Reply #125 on:** November 16, 2003, 09:44:05 am »

I've watched both films, bought both film, enjoyed both films.

Adaptation was necesary. And certain to produce gnashing of teeth among serious readers. As to casual viewers, well a cynic once said no one went broke underestimating the taste of the public. Movie viewers routinely enjoy movies with plot holes large enough for the host of the Rohirrim to charge through. Those kind of viewers would have swallowed a goody two shoes Faramir without even chewing.

Let me just leave it at this.

I simply disagree that the specific changes made to Faramir, the Ents and to a lesser extent, Rohan were necesary to adapt the story. Jackson chose to tell another story. Its still a pretty good story. It just didn't have to happen that way.

And it could have far worse. From the infamous Tolkein Sarcasm site...

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/pitch.htm

or

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/two_hour.htm

TO: Miramax Studios
FROM: Storyline Editor
RE: 'Lord of Rings' story

Ok, Jack -- I read this grossly oversized book, and I think we can handle it, but we have got to slim-n-trim this one big time to get it into our 2:07 frame. Luckily, 2/3 of this book is just dead weight. Proposed cuts:

Merry and Pippin, or at least one of them. Too easy to confuse. Too many Hobbits.
Sam. Sure, he's got the supporting role, but isn't Frodo's lone struggle against impossible odds twice as heroic without him?
Faramir. Wussy, non-heroic character - all he does is to get shot and lie around in agony. A waste of scenes. Better to keep Boromir alive, use him in later scenes.
Imrahil. Who cares?
Saruman. Needless duplication of a villain.
Kingdom of Rohan & its inhabitants. Needless duplication of a kingdom.
Ents. Talking trees? Makes me think of 'The Wizard of Oz'.
Nine Black Riders. Reduce to three.

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #130 on:** November 17, 2003, 07:51:50 pm »

Hstaphath_XC · « **Reply #131 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:28:40 am »

Have you guys seen this?

Corbomite · « **Reply #132 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:49:48 am »

Hstaphath!!!

Scott Allen Abfalter · « **Reply #134 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:00:33 am »

I'd like to say that I am _HAPPY_ the Sauruman/Shire scenes were left out. I did not like them in the original book, just like I disliked the whole Tom Bombadil silliness. It distracted from the real story of the Ring. Kudos to the director for not spoiling his movie, that sort of stuff is perfect for the "Extended" edition.

I read a joke recently that said that the 3rd movie would be ABSOLUTELY true to the 3rd book: The story of the ring would be resolved in the first hour, then the final two hours would be the director in front of a whiteboard talking about how dwarven runes are pronounced.

762 · « **Reply #135 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:52:31 am »

Sucker!! I got mine on ebay for only $1600!!

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #137 on:** November 18, 2003, 06:54:56 pm »

IKV Nemesis D7L · « **Reply #138 on:** November 19, 2003, 05:33:29 pm »

News:

Topic: Has any one else herd chirs lee has been edited out (Read 29108 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

LongTooth

Gambler

KOTH-Steel Claw

Sethan

Sirgod

Toasty0

Sethan

Barabbas

msnevil

Toasty0

Taldren_Erin

Hstaphath_XC

NCC2012

Kieran Forester

NCC2012

Sirgod

NCC2012

Hstaphath_XC

RazalYllib

762

Harlax

Strafer

Demandred

dangadget

Commander Xizor

Sethan

dangadget

Harlax

dangadget

Harlax

dangadget

Harlax

Sethan

Corbomite

Barabbas

762

IKV Nemesis D7L

Hstaphath_XC

Corbomite

Fahrenheit

Scott Allen Abfalter

762

Dogmatix!

IKV Nemesis D7L

IKV Nemesis D7L

Harlax

Harlax

LongTooth

Gambler

KOTH-Steel Claw

Sethan

Sirgod

Toasty0

Sethan

Barabbas

msnevil

Toasty0

Taldren_Erin

Hstaphath_XC

NCC2012

Kieran Forester

NCC2012

Sirgod

NCC2012

Hstaphath_XC

RazalYllib

762

Harlax

Strafer

Demandred

dangadget

Commander Xizor

Sethan

dangadget

Topic: Has any one else herd chirs lee has been edited out (Read 29108 times)