Topic: SFC3 Crash and Reboot problem!

[Warship]

Ok.. for the first time ever I have a brand new game that causes by XP Pro box to not only crash but completely reboot. I go through the skirmish selection and the game starts to load the scenario and bang I get a list of DOS like errors and my computer completely reboots. This is with V1.0 and the DX9 patch but I also tried after installing the latest Beta patch as well.

System specs are:
Athlon XP1600, 384MB SDRAM, Nvidia G4 MX440 video card, Asus A7V266-E MB, SB PCI 512 Sound Card, WinXP Pro OS. All of the latest DX and WQHL certified drivers installed for all components and WinXP completely updated.

No other game, even very old DOS and Win9X titles, has ever done this to my system before and I own over 60 titles and I have a background in computer software and hardware diagnostics and technical work and I have been working with computers for over 20 years. I already tried Win9X compatibility mode and the game wouldnt even start so that option is out. TSRs were at a minimum except for my firewall which I will not shut down and that software has never bothered any other software on my system. I can run any other SFC title just fine except for SFCOP requires me to alt-tab out and back in so the keyboard will be seen.. other then that it runs without flaw.

If anyone has some tips to try I would be appreciative and if it works I might throw a special discount at you for our online store for your help. I would *really* like to play this game and I promised my 4yr old nephew some more SFC kick ass fun since I got him into liking Star Trek space combat.. but obviously cant do that if it breaks everytime I try to run it.

Thanks.
   

[CFA_Admiral_Tige]

DOS Like errors?? could you post an error or two so we can see what you mean??


Tiger

[Pestalence]

Is youe system using a Geforce 4 MX 440 ?

if it is, then try the last Geforce 4 certified driver that was bug free.. Nov. 2002 Driver 4.0.7.2...(Anything after this driver is for FX cards only and use the bugged Dec 2002 Geforce 4 drivers)

here is the direct dl site page

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-2k_40.72.html

hope that this helps...
 

[Warship]

To reply #1.. as to the DOS looking error messages.. sorry but that may not be possible. The screen shows like this for less then a second and then the rebooting starts. I can try a screenshot but I doubt it will work.

To reply #2.. bad idea. Its never a good idea to ask players in general to go backwards in terms of drivers for video cards and I would consider that only if several other of my titles were showing problems but none of them are. It would be one thing to go back to a WQHL certified driver instead of a non-certified driver but this is not the case. As software developers ourselves we must use the latest certified drivers so we can properly test our designs while using them as the public in general, those that do update their drivers, will be using the latest a majority of the time. This is especially true when the software industry as a standard asks players to make sure their drivers are up to date.. by asking to go backwards you are implying a double standard. In any case this is not an option and should not be required when all previous SFC editions work fine on my system with the latest WQHL certified drivers as well as all other software titles that I have to date.

As a side note.. I just double checked the VIA drivers that I have and found that I was out of date on those by a few months so I just updated them to the latest 4in1 series and I will be retesting after that to see if that might make a difference.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[WaterTiger]

Warship,

The game has a habit on load of asking for the DX 8.1, and when you decline this ... (and have DX9b in your system), a reinstall of DX9b is required. Don't ask me why, but it is ... If not, it will crash with a runtime error.

Here's what I would do ...

Uninstall the game completely. Start over. Reinstall game and the latest patch from Taldren. SFC3 Patches

Then, before you load the game and fire it up, REINSTALL your DX9b from Microsoft. I save a copy of the executable for just such an occasion.

Reboot your machine.

Fire up the game and enjoy.

What you are getting is a runtime error.

I guarantee after you follow these steps you will be enjoying the game (assuming there is not an internal computer hardware issue unrelated to the game.)

Cheers,

WaterTiger  

[Warship]

Ok.. update on the error messages. They were not DOS errors but VXD errors with the typical long string of numbers in the error message. There is no way for me to read any part of it in time as the reboot happens within less then a second after the error message happens. The drivers I have for the Nvidia G4 MX440 card is the Version: 52.16 Release Date: October 23, 2003 WHQL Certified driver set. Again.. no other software titles that I have tested recently are showing any indications of problems so far and the older SFCOP runs without a problem so IMHO a newer software title such as SFC3 should work better then the older title.

http://www.navalwarfare.org.uk/files/sfc3screenshots.zip

Here are 2 screenshots..
#1 shows my default setup in the options for SFC3
#2 shows the setup for the skirmish

Note the game crashes right after the bar on the game loading screen reaches the right hand side indicating that the game is trying to start the battle based on the options selected.

Hopefully the above information will help. Thanks.  

[WaterTiger]

Do what I just posted ...

[Warship]

Ill give your idea a shot and report back in a few minutes. Thanks.  

[Warship]

To Watertiger,

Sorry but it seems your guarantee didnt work.

I went through the following steps..
1. Removed the game entirely via the uninstaller and then wiped out the directory it was in.
2. Reinstalled SFC3.
3. Reinstalled DX9b.
4. Rebooted
5. Reinstalled the SFC3 DX9 and Beta 1.01 patches.
6. Tried to load and run SFC3.

Nothing changed. Same crash using the same options.

The only difference between what I did and your instructions was reinstalling DX9b before the patches but that should have had no effect on the outcome, and to add to this, when I first installed SFC3 I installed all patches first before trying to run the game prior to my initial reports. Now is anyone having VXD errors with the latest beta patch? Remember also that I attempted to run the game as V1.0 with the same result as well.

Tell me something.. are you using the latest Nvidia drivers? There needs to be an elmination process started here so all of us can put our heads together as to what is happening so a fix can take place.

   

[Towelie]

Quote:
To reply #1.. as to the DOS looking error messages.. sorry but that may not be possible. The screen shows like this for less then a second and then the rebooting starts. I can try a screenshot but I doubt it will work.

To reply #2.. bad idea. Its never a good idea to ask players in general to go backwards in terms of drivers for video cards and I would consider that only if several other of my titles were showing problems but none of them are. It would be one thing to go back to a WQHL certified driver instead of a non-certified driver but this is not the case. As software developers ourselves we must use the latest certified drivers so we can properly test our designs while using them as the public in general, those that do update their drivers, will be using the latest a majority of the time. This is especially true when the software industry as a standard asks players to make sure their drivers are up to date.. by asking to go backwards you are implying a double standard. In any case this is not an option and should not be required when all previous SFC editions work fine on my system with the latest WQHL certified drivers as well as all other software titles that I have to date.

As a side note.. I just double checked the VIA drivers that I have and found that I was out of date on those by a few months so I just updated them to the latest 4in1 series and I will be retesting after that to see if that might make a difference.

Thanks for the replies.

   

  Actually, with Radeon, the newer drivers were causing problems when people updated their drivers and they had to roll them back to fix it. There are some known issues with the Nvidia MX440 also on some systems, it's been causing complete crashes and reboots. I'll see if I can find the thread on it when I have time. Don't remember the full details to it, but I remember it was driver related.  

[Warship]

Regarding the video driver rollback.. what you say may be the case but the problem remains unfixed. If you rollback then all future drivers that may fix other issues and/or improve video card performance will be usuable due to a single software title, as is my case at the moment, by forcing someone to hold back on their video driver updating. So one company will say "update" and another will say "dont update". Needless to say this will create confusion and I have seen no indications that it is a proven fact that the latest Nvidia drivers are the cause. Example: We had a problem with Nvidia drivers a while back with one of our titles and we found a work around for it until Nvidia fixed a problem with their latest non-certified driver set and then got it properly certified and the problem went away after Nvidia got pounded with reported problems with that specific driver set. If my reported issue is a proven fault of Nvidia drivers then it needs to be narrowed down. replicated on several machines, and reported otherwise we are all just banging our heads against the same brick wall with all future updated Nvidia WQHL certified drivers. I will see if members of my team can run some tests with the latest drivers as well and if they have a copy of SFC3. We will try to help where we can if possible.

Thanks.  

[WaterTiger]

I have the latest NVidea drivers, with no problems on a 128 mb ddr 4200. Works fine here. NVidea released new drivers in July, I believe.

WaterTiger

[Warship]

The latest drivers for the Geforce series on a XP box are as follows,
Windows XP/2000, Version: 52.16, Release Date: October 23, 2003
WHQL Certified

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_52.16  

[Warship]

OK.. think I found the problem. Did a quick glance over the v52.16 Forceware Nvidia driver PDF files and found that a known issue with Battlefieild 1942 regarding its desert scenarios sounded similiar to my issue with SFC3 when a scenario was being loaded and running into a VXD fault. So I reverted over to the August 13, 2003 set of Detonator drivers v45.23 which are also WQHL certified and then SFC3 ran with no crashes so far. So a definite clue here would be something wrong with the v52.16 drivers which are brand new to the scene under the new ForceWare brand name.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_52.16.html

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-2k_45.23.html

I would highly advise that anyone with Nvidia drivers keep watch of the new Forceware v50 series of driver sets for any problems and report them to Nvidia as this may only get worse if Nvidia does not fix the problems. Even if they fix the issue with BF1942, which they do note in their PDF files,  that may not correct the problems with SFC3 so definitely make sure to test this out and report it to them to see if a) there are any similiarities and b) to keep the pressure on Nvidia to correct the problem. Staying with older drivers and never reporting the issue to Nvidia will not fix the problem and more players will end up running into this in the future as they update to the latest driver sets. If Nvidia does not fix the problem then a patch by the Taldren developers may have to be seriously considered.

Thanks for the replies and I hope this helps any future questions relating to this matter.  

[Warship]

Ok.. for the first time ever I have a brand new game that causes by XP Pro box to not only crash but completely reboot. I go through the skirmish selection and the game starts to load the scenario and bang I get a list of DOS like errors and my computer completely reboots. This is with V1.0 and the DX9 patch but I also tried after installing the latest Beta patch as well.

System specs are:
Athlon XP1600, 384MB SDRAM, Nvidia G4 MX440 video card, Asus A7V266-E MB, SB PCI 512 Sound Card, WinXP Pro OS. All of the latest DX and WQHL certified drivers installed for all components and WinXP completely updated.

No other game, even very old DOS and Win9X titles, has ever done this to my system before and I own over 60 titles and I have a background in computer software and hardware diagnostics and technical work and I have been working with computers for over 20 years. I already tried Win9X compatibility mode and the game wouldnt even start so that option is out. TSRs were at a minimum except for my firewall which I will not shut down and that software has never bothered any other software on my system. I can run any other SFC title just fine except for SFCOP requires me to alt-tab out and back in so the keyboard will be seen.. other then that it runs without flaw.

If anyone has some tips to try I would be appreciative and if it works I might throw a special discount at you for our online store for your help. I would *really* like to play this game and I promised my 4yr old nephew some more SFC kick ass fun since I got him into liking Star Trek space combat.. but obviously cant do that if it breaks everytime I try to run it.

Thanks.
   

[CFA_Admiral_Tige]

DOS Like errors?? could you post an error or two so we can see what you mean??


Tiger

[Pestalence]

Is youe system using a Geforce 4 MX 440 ?

if it is, then try the last Geforce 4 certified driver that was bug free.. Nov. 2002 Driver 4.0.7.2...(Anything after this driver is for FX cards only and use the bugged Dec 2002 Geforce 4 drivers)

here is the direct dl site page

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-2k_40.72.html

hope that this helps...
 

[Warship]

To reply #1.. as to the DOS looking error messages.. sorry but that may not be possible. The screen shows like this for less then a second and then the rebooting starts. I can try a screenshot but I doubt it will work.

To reply #2.. bad idea. Its never a good idea to ask players in general to go backwards in terms of drivers for video cards and I would consider that only if several other of my titles were showing problems but none of them are. It would be one thing to go back to a WQHL certified driver instead of a non-certified driver but this is not the case. As software developers ourselves we must use the latest certified drivers so we can properly test our designs while using them as the public in general, those that do update their drivers, will be using the latest a majority of the time. This is especially true when the software industry as a standard asks players to make sure their drivers are up to date.. by asking to go backwards you are implying a double standard. In any case this is not an option and should not be required when all previous SFC editions work fine on my system with the latest WQHL certified drivers as well as all other software titles that I have to date.

As a side note.. I just double checked the VIA drivers that I have and found that I was out of date on those by a few months so I just updated them to the latest 4in1 series and I will be retesting after that to see if that might make a difference.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[WaterTiger]

Warship,

The game has a habit on load of asking for the DX 8.1, and when you decline this ... (and have DX9b in your system), a reinstall of DX9b is required. Don't ask me why, but it is ... If not, it will crash with a runtime error.

Here's what I would do ...

Uninstall the game completely. Start over. Reinstall game and the latest patch from Taldren. SFC3 Patches

Then, before you load the game and fire it up, REINSTALL your DX9b from Microsoft. I save a copy of the executable for just such an occasion.

Reboot your machine.

Fire up the game and enjoy.

What you are getting is a runtime error.

I guarantee after you follow these steps you will be enjoying the game (assuming there is not an internal computer hardware issue unrelated to the game.)

Cheers,

WaterTiger  

[Warship]

Ok.. update on the error messages. They were not DOS errors but VXD errors with the typical long string of numbers in the error message. There is no way for me to read any part of it in time as the reboot happens within less then a second after the error message happens. The drivers I have for the Nvidia G4 MX440 card is the Version: 52.16 Release Date: October 23, 2003 WHQL Certified driver set. Again.. no other software titles that I have tested recently are showing any indications of problems so far and the older SFCOP runs without a problem so IMHO a newer software title such as SFC3 should work better then the older title.

http://www.navalwarfare.org.uk/files/sfc3screenshots.zip

Here are 2 screenshots..
#1 shows my default setup in the options for SFC3
#2 shows the setup for the skirmish

Note the game crashes right after the bar on the game loading screen reaches the right hand side indicating that the game is trying to start the battle based on the options selected.

Hopefully the above information will help. Thanks.