Topic: Fleet Discrimination in TNZ ... (cross post)

[WaterTiger]

It appears the Imperial Romulan Navy has asked TNZ's Capt. KoraH to limit BOTAKnights on the server, which is slated to launch Saturday.

So, there will be an attempt made to split up a fleet of 20 pilots we have committed to TNZ this campaign.

EVEN THOUGH THERE IS RACE REGISTRATION IN PLACE TO BALANCE OUT THE SERVER POPULATION!

There are 178 registered players on TNZ -- 10 less Romulans than Federation pilots!!!

The F9th is there, SBO, TAG, GOC, RFA and IRN. But the only fleet targeted is the one who has never lost a D-3 Dyna in the one year history of our fleet.

So our fleet is punished for being committed??

As the founder and council member for the Brotherhood of Trans-Atlantic Knights, I protest this action ...

Yes, it is KoraH's server and he can do what he wants.

But if my fleet is split, I would request that a proportionate number of IRN, GOC, SBO, TAG, RFA and F9th also be forced to fly other races. We have chosen to fly Federation, although our pilots are experianced in all races.

And truly it actually serves no purpose. I am an honorary member of the GOC, and I will have the GOCBlaze temporarily "adopt" our members and fly with their colors.

So you will have 10 Knights and 10 GOC members.

Speaking for our council, I am highly offended that KoraH would even entertain IRN complaints on this issue only because they know they are going to be smoked off the map by the most experianced group of SFC3 pilots in the Dyna.

Here is what KoraH posted in TNZ news today on the matter.

"October 24, 2003 New developments
The latest revision of the mod, TNZ4, is completing final testing this morning, and within a few
hours I expect to have the mod uploaded and available. The campaign may have to wait until
Saturday morning however, but with all the new material, I think everyone will want to have
a close look at the ships again before we start anyway.

A problem has been brought to my attention regarding player population balance relating
to fleets participating in the campaign. I know some fleets are against splitting up for
a campaign, but I'm considering a rule change that limits how many people from a single
fleet may play on the same team. Since the BOTA fleet in particular is so much larger than
any other fleet participating in the campaign, some people feel an imbalance in "nutter"
population will result unless the number of players from a single fleet per race is limited. I
am currently discussing this issue with the Race Leaders and we will have a decision soon."


Good luck,

KnightWaterTiger

Founder and council member,

Brotherhood of Trans-Atlantic Knights  

[WaterTiger]

And the last time we split up the Knights on TNZ, we were accussed of collusion and spying and all working for the Klingons!!!

There are 178 registered players on TNZ -- 10 less Romulans than Federation pilots!!!

And there 20 of us committed to this two-race map!

Heck, let's just put a limit on "nutters" ...

Gimmie a break.

WaterTiger

[ActiveX]

Only a year old?

[WaterTiger]

Quote:
Yes, I mentioned BOTA in my news article, but it seems perfectly normal to mention them since they are the largest fleet on the server and they will be the most impacted by the issue. I made no disparaging remarks about the BOTA fleet, and the whole thing is in no way an attmept to thwart the BOTA players from participating.

Have a discussion and make your points without flaming each other. Yes, WaterTiger is known for his short temper and jumping to conclusions, but he isn't a bad guy. He does have a valid concern because what the BK's are saying here is true, splitting their fleet up caused them a lot of trouble last time. I just disagree with the way he blamed it on the IRN and made it sound like fleet restrictions were a forgone conclusion. WT is a good guy, he just tends to be overzealous at times. Occasionally, he's right to be. Just not this time.

At this time I seriously doubt that any fleet restrictions will be implimented. It was worth discussing though.

On a realted but different subject, I seriously think that the poblems BK had in the past with splitting their fleet, and the problems they anticipate should that occur again, are entirely a problem of the attitudes of their own players, and not anything to do with how many members fly on which team. I have been playing board games with friends at the local game store on Friday nights for about 5 years, and we always take sides against each other and play and have fun. What side you're on doesn't make a difference if you realize that everyone is playing to have fun and maybe win, and that the players on the other side are your friends too. When you have to don a camo uniform and hump a ruck then the mindset that the enemy is evil and deserves no mercy is useful, but in the sugar-coated, marshmallow, Walt-Disney civilian world of gaming, that's a bad thing. This is not just a BK problem though, I think a LOT of SFC3 players don't know how to make a distinction between "friends playing the game with you" and "real life enemies". TNZ is a very competitive game, but you shouldn't let that sway you into feeling that everoyne of the other colors is your enemy.


By the way, the TNZ4 mod is uploading now.  It should be available within about 3 hours.
 

Ok, now start bashing fleet members. Are you thick, man?

This now has crossed the lines to you wanting to even up races, but has gone to your grudges with members of this fleet -- including myself.

While you think I am a short-tempered hothead ... I think you are a complete control freak, who is trying to micromanage not only this server, but this fleet.

The reasons we had problems when we split the fleet was because other members of races accused us of "spying" for the Klingons and goading us into derision. We had pilots flying Borg, Klingon and Romulan that camp.

Your post here is tantamount to a slap in the face to this fleet. We are friends, we fly together. Flying with fleets is different than flying with friends ... even though there are friends in a fleet. It's a bond we share and something we are proud of.

Why don't we disband TAG, IRN, SBO, RFA, GOC and the F9th? All but one TAG member was flying Federation, and their group is much larger than ours -- pull the numbers.

You somehow forget that without fleets and fleet members, this game would have died long ago ... fleets are the core of this game.

Do we complain because you have an RL who is a fleet member of IRN? No. Did we make a stink about Ryker when he brought the entire F9th fleet into TNZ two camps ago? No.

You are about as hot a head as me., and many can remember the day you got so angry on your own server that you announced you were shutting it off. Poof, and you pulled the plug.

So don't come off to me as the high-and-mighty Captain KoraH and begin attacking my fleet. I am a 41-year-old man, and old enough to know when to keep my mouth shut and when to speak out.

You need to take a class in interperonnal communication skills and learn to communicate better with the players who chose to play on your server.

Your silence on BattleClinic forums is deafening, but you are obligated there first and posted that weeks ago in these very forums. Members are forced to cut/copy and paste your remarks here in BattleClinic to get any clue as to what is coming next. And you chose Taldren as your format, even though you are obligated to the 20 players sitting on BattleClinic right now waiting for word on your mod. You left this community hanging for two months without saying more than a few words in cryptic posts that left us all guessing what your next move was ....

I am tired of you talking to me and members of this fleet as some kind of child who needs to obey "Daddy KoraH" ...

I am an individual, as are members of this fleet. We like to win, and we win when we stick together and help others, train new players and participate as a group committed to a common goal.

If you have a problem with this fleet, say the word. I will pull them out and move to Dominion Wars, where Pelican appreciates fleet competition and fly with SBO.

Just say the word.

KnightWaterTiger

Founder and council member,

Brotherhood of Trans-Atlantic Knights  

[ActiveX]

...

[Torgosh]

Wow...I just got this incredibly vivid image of the BKs as that evil karate team in the black uniforms from the first Karate Kid movie...all of them sitting at their computers in the dojo playing SFC while WaterTiger walks around yelling and telling them they're weak and that all that matters is winning....sweep the leg!      

[WaterTiger]

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are solely the opinions of its author. The BOTAKnights, Battleclinic, TNZ, Captain KoraH, Cueball, or any other person you can think of are not responsible for the views or opinions expressed in this post.
 

[CptCastrin]

Quote:
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are solely the opinions of its author. The BOTAKnights, Battleclinic, TNZ, Captain KoraH, Cueball, or any other person you can think of are not responsible for the views or opinions expressed in this post.
   

Tiger, when you put this at the end of a "rant" you are indeed speaking for your fleet and it's views ...

 

Quote:
If you have a problem with this fleet, say the word. I will pull them out and move to Dominion Wars, where Pelican appreciates fleet competition and fly with SBO.

Just say the word.

KnightWaterTiger

Founder and council member,

Brotherhood of Trans-Atlantic Knights

Don't now try and cover your arse with a statement like the first quote. As a council member (and founder) you speak for the BOTAKnights. If they don't like what your saying then either you shouldn't say it or you should leave the fleet (and the moving of it to another server) out of it.

'Nuff said.

     

[WaterTiger]

Oh, they don't mind me talking at all for them, which I am doing. I have some very angry fleet members at this minute in our TeamSpeak, who spent the last three weeks practicing their Federation flying tactics. What I am hearing is tame compared to what I am writing, for sure.

It was a sarcastic little joke about the disclaimer! See the little smiley face?

I put this thread here to generate debate on the topic, commander, sir ...

Fleets in the D-3 Dyna are its heart and soul, yet we have a server admin and mod creator who is entertaining the idea of splitting them up to satisfy his own machinations. This isn't the first time KoraH has crossed this line (he once entertained the idea in these forums of having us remove fleet tags). Pelican has also entertained the idea in his Dyna, until SBO and PHNX went nuts.

Now, get back to the point -- with all due respect -- commander, sir.

Wow, look at all those ribbons on your chest. Admin Superman for God's sake. I'm sure you could shed some valuable light on the subject.

WaterTiger

[Toasty0]

<OO>  

[WaterTiger]

I see you watching Toasty

[WaterTiger]

It appears the Imperial Romulan Navy has asked TNZ's Capt. KoraH to limit BOTAKnights on the server, which is slated to launch Saturday.

So, there will be an attempt made to split up a fleet of 20 pilots we have committed to TNZ this campaign.

EVEN THOUGH THERE IS RACE REGISTRATION IN PLACE TO BALANCE OUT THE SERVER POPULATION!

There are 178 registered players on TNZ -- 10 less Romulans than Federation pilots!!!

The F9th is there, SBO, TAG, GOC, RFA and IRN. But the only fleet targeted is the one who has never lost a D-3 Dyna in the one year history of our fleet.

So our fleet is punished for being committed??

As the founder and council member for the Brotherhood of Trans-Atlantic Knights, I protest this action ...

Yes, it is KoraH's server and he can do what he wants.

But if my fleet is split, I would request that a proportionate number of IRN, GOC, SBO, TAG, RFA and F9th also be forced to fly other races. We have chosen to fly Federation, although our pilots are experianced in all races.

And truly it actually serves no purpose. I am an honorary member of the GOC, and I will have the GOCBlaze temporarily "adopt" our members and fly with their colors.

So you will have 10 Knights and 10 GOC members.

Speaking for our council, I am highly offended that KoraH would even entertain IRN complaints on this issue only because they know they are going to be smoked off the map by the most experianced group of SFC3 pilots in the Dyna.

Here is what KoraH posted in TNZ news today on the matter.

"October 24, 2003 New developments
The latest revision of the mod, TNZ4, is completing final testing this morning, and within a few
hours I expect to have the mod uploaded and available. The campaign may have to wait until
Saturday morning however, but with all the new material, I think everyone will want to have
a close look at the ships again before we start anyway.

A problem has been brought to my attention regarding player population balance relating
to fleets participating in the campaign. I know some fleets are against splitting up for
a campaign, but I'm considering a rule change that limits how many people from a single
fleet may play on the same team. Since the BOTA fleet in particular is so much larger than
any other fleet participating in the campaign, some people feel an imbalance in "nutter"
population will result unless the number of players from a single fleet per race is limited. I
am currently discussing this issue with the Race Leaders and we will have a decision soon."


Good luck,

KnightWaterTiger

Founder and council member,

Brotherhood of Trans-Atlantic Knights  

[WaterTiger]

And the last time we split up the Knights on TNZ, we were accussed of collusion and spying and all working for the Klingons!!!

There are 178 registered players on TNZ -- 10 less Romulans than Federation pilots!!!

And there 20 of us committed to this two-race map!

Heck, let's just put a limit on "nutters" ...

Gimmie a break.

WaterTiger

[ActiveX]

Only a year old?

[WaterTiger]

Quote:
Yes, I mentioned BOTA in my news article, but it seems perfectly normal to mention them since they are the largest fleet on the server and they will be the most impacted by the issue. I made no disparaging remarks about the BOTA fleet, and the whole thing is in no way an attmept to thwart the BOTA players from participating.

Have a discussion and make your points without flaming each other. Yes, WaterTiger is known for his short temper and jumping to conclusions, but he isn't a bad guy. He does have a valid concern because what the BK's are saying here is true, splitting their fleet up caused them a lot of trouble last time. I just disagree with the way he blamed it on the IRN and made it sound like fleet restrictions were a forgone conclusion. WT is a good guy, he just tends to be overzealous at times. Occasionally, he's right to be. Just not this time.

At this time I seriously doubt that any fleet restrictions will be implimented. It was worth discussing though.

On a realted but different subject, I seriously think that the poblems BK had in the past with splitting their fleet, and the problems they anticipate should that occur again, are entirely a problem of the attitudes of their own players, and not anything to do with how many members fly on which team. I have been playing board games with friends at the local game store on Friday nights for about 5 years, and we always take sides against each other and play and have fun. What side you're on doesn't make a difference if you realize that everyone is playing to have fun and maybe win, and that the players on the other side are your friends too. When you have to don a camo uniform and hump a ruck then the mindset that the enemy is evil and deserves no mercy is useful, but in the sugar-coated, marshmallow, Walt-Disney civilian world of gaming, that's a bad thing. This is not just a BK problem though, I think a LOT of SFC3 players don't know how to make a distinction between "friends playing the game with you" and "real life enemies". TNZ is a very competitive game, but you shouldn't let that sway you into feeling that everoyne of the other colors is your enemy.


By the way, the TNZ4 mod is uploading now.  It should be available within about 3 hours.
 

Ok, now start bashing fleet members. Are you thick, man?

This now has crossed the lines to you wanting to even up races, but has gone to your grudges with members of this fleet -- including myself.

While you think I am a short-tempered hothead ... I think you are a complete control freak, who is trying to micromanage not only this server, but this fleet.

The reasons we had problems when we split the fleet was because other members of races accused us of "spying" for the Klingons and goading us into derision. We had pilots flying Borg, Klingon and Romulan that camp.

Your post here is tantamount to a slap in the face to this fleet. We are friends, we fly together. Flying with fleets is different than flying with friends ... even though there are friends in a fleet. It's a bond we share and something we are proud of.

Why don't we disband TAG, IRN, SBO, RFA, GOC and the F9th? All but one TAG member was flying Federation, and their group is much larger than ours -- pull the numbers.

You somehow forget that without fleets and fleet members, this game would have died long ago ... fleets are the core of this game.

Do we complain because you have an RL who is a fleet member of IRN? No. Did we make a stink about Ryker when he brought the entire F9th fleet into TNZ two camps ago? No.

You are about as hot a head as me., and many can remember the day you got so angry on your own server that you announced you were shutting it off. Poof, and you pulled the plug.

So don't come off to me as the high-and-mighty Captain KoraH and begin attacking my fleet. I am a 41-year-old man, and old enough to know when to keep my mouth shut and when to speak out.

You need to take a class in interperonnal communication skills and learn to communicate better with the players who chose to play on your server.

Your silence on BattleClinic forums is deafening, but you are obligated there first and posted that weeks ago in these very forums. Members are forced to cut/copy and paste your remarks here in BattleClinic to get any clue as to what is coming next. And you chose Taldren as your format, even though you are obligated to the 20 players sitting on BattleClinic right now waiting for word on your mod. You left this community hanging for two months without saying more than a few words in cryptic posts that left us all guessing what your next move was ....

I am tired of you talking to me and members of this fleet as some kind of child who needs to obey "Daddy KoraH" ...

I am an individual, as are members of this fleet. We like to win, and we win when we stick together and help others, train new players and participate as a group committed to a common goal.

If you have a problem with this fleet, say the word. I will pull them out and move to Dominion Wars, where Pelican appreciates fleet competition and fly with SBO.

Just say the word.

KnightWaterTiger

Founder and council member,

Brotherhood of Trans-Atlantic Knights  

[ActiveX]

...

[Torgosh]

Wow...I just got this incredibly vivid image of the BKs as that evil karate team in the black uniforms from the first Karate Kid movie...all of them sitting at their computers in the dojo playing SFC while WaterTiger walks around yelling and telling them they're weak and that all that matters is winning....sweep the leg!      

[WaterTiger]

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are solely the opinions of its author. The BOTAKnights, Battleclinic, TNZ, Captain KoraH, Cueball, or any other person you can think of are not responsible for the views or opinions expressed in this post.
 

[CptCastrin]

Quote:
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are solely the opinions of its author. The BOTAKnights, Battleclinic, TNZ, Captain KoraH, Cueball, or any other person you can think of are not responsible for the views or opinions expressed in this post.
   

Tiger, when you put this at the end of a "rant" you are indeed speaking for your fleet and it's views ...

 

Quote:
If you have a problem with this fleet, say the word. I will pull them out and move to Dominion Wars, where Pelican appreciates fleet competition and fly with SBO.

Just say the word.

KnightWaterTiger

Founder and council member,

Brotherhood of Trans-Atlantic Knights

Don't now try and cover your arse with a statement like the first quote. As a council member (and founder) you speak for the BOTAKnights. If they don't like what your saying then either you shouldn't say it or you should leave the fleet (and the moving of it to another server) out of it.

'Nuff said.

     

[WaterTiger]

Oh, they don't mind me talking at all for them, which I am doing. I have some very angry fleet members at this minute in our TeamSpeak, who spent the last three weeks practicing their Federation flying tactics. What I am hearing is tame compared to what I am writing, for sure.

It was a sarcastic little joke about the disclaimer! See the little smiley face?

I put this thread here to generate debate on the topic, commander, sir ...

Fleets in the D-3 Dyna are its heart and soul, yet we have a server admin and mod creator who is entertaining the idea of splitting them up to satisfy his own machinations. This isn't the first time KoraH has crossed this line (he once entertained the idea in these forums of having us remove fleet tags). Pelican has also entertained the idea in his Dyna, until SBO and PHNX went nuts.

Now, get back to the point -- with all due respect -- commander, sir.

Wow, look at all those ribbons on your chest. Admin Superman for God's sake. I'm sure you could shed some valuable light on the subject.

WaterTiger

[Toasty0]

<OO>  

[WaterTiger]

I see you watching Toasty