Topic: Taldren Please help a fellow customer out!!!! DELETED DELETED (Read 8986 times)

nx_adam_1701 · « **on:** October 22, 2003, 12:40:21 pm »

Post deleted by nx_adam_1701

Corbomite · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2003, 12:46:49 pm »

What game?

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2003, 02:29:45 pm »

First, are you talking about a single player campaign or a online D3 server? If it's single player, the tensions matrix is in the MetaAssets folders. If it's a D3 server then the answer may be that you cannot change the tensions once the campaign has started. You would have to either edit the database with a hex editor, or start the campaign over again. Another way around this is to use SQL, but I do not suggest it, as SQL based D3 servers tend to crash rather quickly.

Towelie · « **Reply #3 on:** October 22, 2003, 10:17:54 pm »

Quote:

Why is it that when I change the PoliticalTension/StartingTensions, in the metamap.gf file, nothing happens in the game, nothing I have tested it almost like 10 times, im exhausted, anyone got any ideas as to why its not working, I started iwth a small test, changing the federation and romulan tension to make them allies, by putting 0 = zero, but nothing happen, i did it to both, its wierd, it remains the same???????????

adam out

Need more details. I've modified these setting before and after a campaign and they worked perfectly. Put two races two war and make them allies the next. No problem.

I take it that you changed the settings AFTER starting the campaign. After you start the campiagn, the ONLY WAY to change the political settings is to alter them in the saved game AKA DB file. The latter requires a hex editor and a fairly decent understanding of hex and DB structure (which I just happen to have).

The settings you see in text form are only used when creating a new campaign

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 22, 2003, 11:26:14 pm »

SFC OP, and its for a single play campaign, and yes I do it, before starting a campaign not after, and still nothing

adam out

Any ideas???????????

Towelie · « **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2003, 11:32:32 pm »

Okay, which file where you changing? List the path please because this is starting to make me curious.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 23, 2003, 12:22:16 am »

I identified the file in the begining as Metamap.gf, in the metaassets/ServerProfiles/SinglePlayer/MetaMap.gf

adam out

ps thanks

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2003, 01:07:46 am »

Yes i did it correct, for instance Romulan and fed, both 900 default, meaning war, i tested it by changing that to 0, for best of friends sort of speak, but once i start a new camp, nothing still war with each other, i even reinstalled the game, repatched, nothing same problem, I know its a prob... because about a year ago i did the same thing to test it out and it worked, but the past week no luck

adam out

Please help someone

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 23, 2003, 01:33:33 am »

Ok people who were interested in the crazy wierd problem, Ok rememer I said i delete the entire game, reinstalled, repatched, and nothing, same problem occured, then I decided what the hell, let me give it a try, so I installed the 25412 patch, i did the same thing I was doing I pooof it worked, i got all the results I wanted, now the problem is would it work with the 2550 patch which I had previously installed, im afraid that if I do repatch there will be a problem, so now im confused, stay with the buggy 25412, or go with the almost bugless 2550, but not have the ability to alter the tension levels, what do you think, i for my sake can someone point out the bugs that were in the 25412 patch, so I know if its worth it, thanks guys

adam out

Fluf · « **Reply #10 on:** October 23, 2003, 02:43:29 am »

Adam, check and make sure the changes you are doing are saving. Whenever you do a patch, alot of these gf files are replaced with new ones and they are "Read Only" files. Make sure you right click on them and uncheck the read only property. Then make the changes and save the file.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 23, 2003, 03:22:21 am »

i know it sounds wierd but at first I was doing all that, I made sure of it, but i guess ill stay with the second to last patch, i need these tension setting for the mod, thanks for the advice though

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 23, 2003, 03:33:53 am »

Ok disregard wat i mentioned earlier, it happened again, it worked for a sec, and now everything is back to the default, I have no idea what the hell is going on, but I cant seem to get the tension settings the way they should be, I put everything correct, who ever wants to take a look at the metamap file i altered, gimme you email please, help me out

adam out

Corbomite · « **Reply #13 on:** October 23, 2003, 08:27:24 am »

I have my game modded so everyone hates me but the Hydrans and I am running 2.5.5.0. Let me ask you this, when you change them and it starts to not work are the settings you altered put back to the original numbers or are they still set to what you put them at?

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 23, 2003, 11:27:05 am »

That is exactly it, the setting is defaulted back tot he orignal settings, nothing changes, but yet, there are circumstances that I start a campaign and the setting are all screwed up meaning that there not ALL defaulted but some have changed, not what I wanted but all screwed up, like the gorn is the borg, or 1,000 for every races but in the campaign reads them as freindly, when I put 1,000 for every body against the borg and the borg against everybody,

adam out

Towelie · « **Reply #15 on:** October 23, 2003, 04:11:04 pm »

Send me a copy of the metamap.gf file just for kicks. I am going to re-install my copy of OP (as soon as I find the CD) and patch it and see what I get.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 23, 2003, 07:14:20 pm »

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2003, 10:47:25 pm »

Towlie, I sent you screenshots of the problem take a look, and then your understand better

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 24, 2003, 12:20:31 am »

Ok heres an update, before this crapola started happening I used to be able to change my starting prestige now I cant, TALDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What the hell is going on, it has to be this freakin patch man, now this is getting me pissed it use to work fine, All I use to do is change the properties of the character file from read-only to normal and then change the 50 to 250, I just tried it, and when I started the campaign nothing changed it remained 50, I use to do this all the time, now I cant, and no one can explain it, im bugging out, taldren please help

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 24, 2003, 12:37:22 am »

Taldren could it be the latest patch 2550, messing all this up for me

adam out

Corbomite · « **Reply #20 on:** October 24, 2003, 01:08:07 am »

It is not the patch. I have my game all changed around with 2.5.5.0 and it works fine. I just set my starting prestige to 50,000 and even set the BPV range so fine that I got the ship I picked that way given to me as the starting ship. There is something else wrong. Your problems sound like the Read Only function is not turned off, but since you claim that is not the problem I'm not sure what's happening. The only other thing I can think of is that you are not starting a fresh campaign after each change you make. You mentioned you are using a mod. I would look there first. Try removing the mod and doing it on a clean copy that is stock.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 24, 2003, 01:11:48 am »

Do you honestly think I havent tried that, yes I deleted the entire mod, reinstalled the game, made sure the read only function was disabled, i even left the game unpatched freash out of the CD and I remember toiling with the starting pts in the past, worked fine, now it seems not to work, i cant explain it

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 24, 2003, 01:14:57 am »

and yes i deleted all the old campaign, everything fresh from scratch

adam out

Corbomite · « **Reply #23 on:** October 24, 2003, 01:30:32 am »

What are you using to edit the files?

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 24, 2003, 01:33:03 am »

I just open the , for instance the character one, change 50 to 250, close, it saves, bc the readonly is off, and start a campagign, i mean its nutz, then nothing it remains in 50

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 24, 2003, 02:14:37 am »

ok it's finally solved, by Corbomite , while we were sending messages to one another, i caught on to something he was saying, he said he noticed that I had the back up copy in the same folder as the new one, so i took it out and it worked, whoooosh, i was thinking damn, wat the hell is going on, thanks Corbomite, finally back to the modding, thanks again you have no idea how much this relaxed my nerves, i was suspecting maybe a virus or something lol lol thx

adam out

WaterTiger · « **Reply #26 on:** October 24, 2003, 02:15:15 am »

Does it do the same thing with others races? Or just Feds and Roms? How many races are on the map? are u also doing the same 2v2 alliance with your other races?

Check the other race to make sure you have 2v2 settings on the other end.

WaterTiger

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 24, 2003, 02:27:25 am »

thx, but the situation was solved, thanks everybody for all of your input and ideas, I really appreciate your help, not even taldren stepped in, thanks

adam out

Stormbringer · « **Reply #29 on:** October 24, 2003, 03:26:57 am »

Possibly he had saved games that were from before the changes? That effects some tinkering with files.

Towelie · « **Reply #30 on:** October 24, 2003, 09:51:56 am »

It was funny, because he sent me his metamap.gf file and it worked fine on mine. Strange that OP was using the backup copy.

Corbomite · « **Reply #31 on:** October 24, 2003, 10:07:01 am »

I had him send me the entire Single Player folder. He had too many files in there and I think it confused the program because it couldn't match one to a map function.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 25, 2003, 11:43:46 pm »

Hmmmm, how they respond to an insignificant comment, but to a cry for help, it goes on deaf ears lol lol hey admin, calm down no need to get the panties twisted up, it aint that serious, and I do appreciate the fact that the company created this forum, but dont think im going to praise you for it

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #35 on:** October 25, 2003, 11:47:15 pm »

and as for your comment SghnDubh, I rarely say anything offensive around here, nope disregard that, I say nothing offensive so please dont refer to my comments as if I said anything wrong, Taldren to you might be GOD but to some of us, there just a company

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 26, 2003, 02:50:48 am »

and another thing is that; that comment was said because for one week I couldnt log on to the site, and I was contacting taldren for help, because if you dont log in, you cant post or send private messages to anyone, so what do you do, well contact taldren, I sent like 3 emails, and no one answered back, I had to get someone else to help me out, so I was a little pissed off, but I didnt say anything bad, and i certainly dont like being treated as if i did, especially from someone who doesnt even know the whole story

adam out

KRolling · « **Reply #37 on:** October 26, 2003, 06:28:48 am »

Well, since they are all just sitting around doing nothing, I don't understand why they didn't answer. The nerve!!!

Glad everything worked out for you!! It can be so frustrating.

Toasty0 · « **Reply #38 on:** October 26, 2003, 06:59:51 am »

Actually I can't wait to help Adam once again.

Top o' my list of things to do in my busy schedule. Can't imagine doing anything else.

Towelie · « **Reply #39 on:** October 26, 2003, 09:11:03 am »

It shouldn't be Taldren's responsiblity to help mod a game or to assist on a modded game. That's our job not theirs once it's been modified. There is too much that can go wrong once you alter it.

Taldren_Admin · « **Reply #40 on:** October 26, 2003, 11:00:04 am »

Adam,
I did repsond to you. Your email account pinged me back with a undeliverable message. I am glad you were able to get the help you needed.

checkin "panties" noting they are not bunched.

Admin out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #42 on:** October 26, 2003, 07:08:37 pm »

I delete the post, well attempted too because i wanted to take back what i said, lol lol but Im glad no one took it to left field, thanks guys lol

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #44 on:** October 26, 2003, 08:29:33 pm »

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 26, 2003, 11:52:43 pm »

I feel much better now lol and I guess I should appologize , sorwie Admin, shouldnt of talk about the panties, kinda of funny thing though lol sorwie, seriously

adam out

SghnDubh · « **Reply #47 on:** October 27, 2003, 08:45:28 pm »

Gosh Adam, where's my love?

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #48 on:** October 27, 2003, 09:29:17 pm »

ok ok ok, Im sorwie

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #49 on:** October 22, 2003, 12:40:21 pm »

Post deleted by nx_adam_1701

Corbomite · « **Reply #50 on:** October 22, 2003, 12:46:49 pm »

What game?

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #51 on:** October 22, 2003, 02:29:45 pm »

First, are you talking about a single player campaign or a online D3 server? If it's single player, the tensions matrix is in the MetaAssets folders. If it's a D3 server then the answer may be that you cannot change the tensions once the campaign has started. You would have to either edit the database with a hex editor, or start the campaign over again. Another way around this is to use SQL, but I do not suggest it, as SQL based D3 servers tend to crash rather quickly.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #53 on:** October 22, 2003, 11:26:14 pm »

SFC OP, and its for a single play campaign, and yes I do it, before starting a campaign not after, and still nothing

adam out

Any ideas???????????

Towelie · « **Reply #54 on:** October 22, 2003, 11:32:32 pm »

Okay, which file where you changing? List the path please because this is starting to make me curious.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #55 on:** October 23, 2003, 12:22:16 am »

I identified the file in the begining as Metamap.gf, in the metaassets/ServerProfiles/SinglePlayer/MetaMap.gf

adam out

ps thanks

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #57 on:** October 23, 2003, 01:07:46 am »

Yes i did it correct, for instance Romulan and fed, both 900 default, meaning war, i tested it by changing that to 0, for best of friends sort of speak, but once i start a new camp, nothing still war with each other, i even reinstalled the game, repatched, nothing same problem, I know its a prob... because about a year ago i did the same thing to test it out and it worked, but the past week no luck

adam out

Please help someone

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #58 on:** October 23, 2003, 01:33:33 am »

Ok people who were interested in the crazy wierd problem, Ok rememer I said i delete the entire game, reinstalled, repatched, and nothing, same problem occured, then I decided what the hell, let me give it a try, so I installed the 25412 patch, i did the same thing I was doing I pooof it worked, i got all the results I wanted, now the problem is would it work with the 2550 patch which I had previously installed, im afraid that if I do repatch there will be a problem, so now im confused, stay with the buggy 25412, or go with the almost bugless 2550, but not have the ability to alter the tension levels, what do you think, i for my sake can someone point out the bugs that were in the 25412 patch, so I know if its worth it, thanks guys

adam out

Fluf · « **Reply #59 on:** October 23, 2003, 02:43:29 am »

Adam, check and make sure the changes you are doing are saving. Whenever you do a patch, alot of these gf files are replaced with new ones and they are "Read Only" files. Make sure you right click on them and uncheck the read only property. Then make the changes and save the file.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #60 on:** October 23, 2003, 03:22:21 am »

i know it sounds wierd but at first I was doing all that, I made sure of it, but i guess ill stay with the second to last patch, i need these tension setting for the mod, thanks for the advice though

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #61 on:** October 23, 2003, 03:33:53 am »

Ok disregard wat i mentioned earlier, it happened again, it worked for a sec, and now everything is back to the default, I have no idea what the hell is going on, but I cant seem to get the tension settings the way they should be, I put everything correct, who ever wants to take a look at the metamap file i altered, gimme you email please, help me out

adam out

Corbomite · « **Reply #62 on:** October 23, 2003, 08:27:24 am »

I have my game modded so everyone hates me but the Hydrans and I am running 2.5.5.0. Let me ask you this, when you change them and it starts to not work are the settings you altered put back to the original numbers or are they still set to what you put them at?

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #63 on:** October 23, 2003, 11:27:05 am »

That is exactly it, the setting is defaulted back tot he orignal settings, nothing changes, but yet, there are circumstances that I start a campaign and the setting are all screwed up meaning that there not ALL defaulted but some have changed, not what I wanted but all screwed up, like the gorn is the borg, or 1,000 for every races but in the campaign reads them as freindly, when I put 1,000 for every body against the borg and the borg against everybody,

adam out

Towelie · « **Reply #64 on:** October 23, 2003, 04:11:04 pm »

Send me a copy of the metamap.gf file just for kicks. I am going to re-install my copy of OP (as soon as I find the CD) and patch it and see what I get.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #65 on:** October 23, 2003, 07:14:20 pm »

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #66 on:** October 23, 2003, 10:47:25 pm »

Towlie, I sent you screenshots of the problem take a look, and then your understand better

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #67 on:** October 24, 2003, 12:20:31 am »

Ok heres an update, before this crapola started happening I used to be able to change my starting prestige now I cant, TALDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What the hell is going on, it has to be this freakin patch man, now this is getting me pissed it use to work fine, All I use to do is change the properties of the character file from read-only to normal and then change the 50 to 250, I just tried it, and when I started the campaign nothing changed it remained 50, I use to do this all the time, now I cant, and no one can explain it, im bugging out, taldren please help

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #68 on:** October 24, 2003, 12:37:22 am »

Taldren could it be the latest patch 2550, messing all this up for me

adam out

Corbomite · « **Reply #69 on:** October 24, 2003, 01:08:07 am »

It is not the patch. I have my game all changed around with 2.5.5.0 and it works fine. I just set my starting prestige to 50,000 and even set the BPV range so fine that I got the ship I picked that way given to me as the starting ship. There is something else wrong. Your problems sound like the Read Only function is not turned off, but since you claim that is not the problem I'm not sure what's happening. The only other thing I can think of is that you are not starting a fresh campaign after each change you make. You mentioned you are using a mod. I would look there first. Try removing the mod and doing it on a clean copy that is stock.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #70 on:** October 24, 2003, 01:11:48 am »

Do you honestly think I havent tried that, yes I deleted the entire mod, reinstalled the game, made sure the read only function was disabled, i even left the game unpatched freash out of the CD and I remember toiling with the starting pts in the past, worked fine, now it seems not to work, i cant explain it

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #71 on:** October 24, 2003, 01:14:57 am »

and yes i deleted all the old campaign, everything fresh from scratch

adam out

Corbomite · « **Reply #72 on:** October 24, 2003, 01:30:32 am »

What are you using to edit the files?

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #73 on:** October 24, 2003, 01:33:03 am »

I just open the , for instance the character one, change 50 to 250, close, it saves, bc the readonly is off, and start a campagign, i mean its nutz, then nothing it remains in 50

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #74 on:** October 24, 2003, 02:14:37 am »

ok it's finally solved, by Corbomite , while we were sending messages to one another, i caught on to something he was saying, he said he noticed that I had the back up copy in the same folder as the new one, so i took it out and it worked, whoooosh, i was thinking damn, wat the hell is going on, thanks Corbomite, finally back to the modding, thanks again you have no idea how much this relaxed my nerves, i was suspecting maybe a virus or something lol lol thx

adam out

WaterTiger · « **Reply #75 on:** October 24, 2003, 02:15:15 am »

Does it do the same thing with others races? Or just Feds and Roms? How many races are on the map? are u also doing the same 2v2 alliance with your other races?

Check the other race to make sure you have 2v2 settings on the other end.

WaterTiger

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #77 on:** October 24, 2003, 02:27:25 am »

thx, but the situation was solved, thanks everybody for all of your input and ideas, I really appreciate your help, not even taldren stepped in, thanks

adam out

Stormbringer · « **Reply #78 on:** October 24, 2003, 03:26:57 am »

Possibly he had saved games that were from before the changes? That effects some tinkering with files.

Towelie · « **Reply #79 on:** October 24, 2003, 09:51:56 am »

It was funny, because he sent me his metamap.gf file and it worked fine on mine. Strange that OP was using the backup copy.

Corbomite · « **Reply #80 on:** October 24, 2003, 10:07:01 am »

I had him send me the entire Single Player folder. He had too many files in there and I think it confused the program because it couldn't match one to a map function.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #83 on:** October 25, 2003, 11:43:46 pm »

Hmmmm, how they respond to an insignificant comment, but to a cry for help, it goes on deaf ears lol lol hey admin, calm down no need to get the panties twisted up, it aint that serious, and I do appreciate the fact that the company created this forum, but dont think im going to praise you for it

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #84 on:** October 25, 2003, 11:47:15 pm »

and as for your comment SghnDubh, I rarely say anything offensive around here, nope disregard that, I say nothing offensive so please dont refer to my comments as if I said anything wrong, Taldren to you might be GOD but to some of us, there just a company

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #85 on:** October 26, 2003, 02:50:48 am »

and another thing is that; that comment was said because for one week I couldnt log on to the site, and I was contacting taldren for help, because if you dont log in, you cant post or send private messages to anyone, so what do you do, well contact taldren, I sent like 3 emails, and no one answered back, I had to get someone else to help me out, so I was a little pissed off, but I didnt say anything bad, and i certainly dont like being treated as if i did, especially from someone who doesnt even know the whole story

adam out

KRolling · « **Reply #86 on:** October 26, 2003, 06:28:48 am »

Well, since they are all just sitting around doing nothing, I don't understand why they didn't answer. The nerve!!!

Glad everything worked out for you!! It can be so frustrating.

Toasty0 · « **Reply #87 on:** October 26, 2003, 06:59:51 am »

Actually I can't wait to help Adam once again.

Top o' my list of things to do in my busy schedule. Can't imagine doing anything else.

Towelie · « **Reply #88 on:** October 26, 2003, 09:11:03 am »

It shouldn't be Taldren's responsiblity to help mod a game or to assist on a modded game. That's our job not theirs once it's been modified. There is too much that can go wrong once you alter it.

Taldren_Admin · « **Reply #89 on:** October 26, 2003, 11:00:04 am »

Adam,
I did repsond to you. Your email account pinged me back with a undeliverable message. I am glad you were able to get the help you needed.

checkin "panties" noting they are not bunched.

Admin out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #91 on:** October 26, 2003, 07:08:37 pm »

I delete the post, well attempted too because i wanted to take back what i said, lol lol but Im glad no one took it to left field, thanks guys lol

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #93 on:** October 26, 2003, 08:29:33 pm »

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #95 on:** October 26, 2003, 11:52:43 pm »

I feel much better now lol and I guess I should appologize , sorwie Admin, shouldnt of talk about the panties, kinda of funny thing though lol sorwie, seriously

adam out

SghnDubh · « **Reply #96 on:** October 27, 2003, 08:45:28 pm »

Gosh Adam, where's my love?

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #97 on:** October 27, 2003, 09:29:17 pm »

ok ok ok, Im sorwie

adam out

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Topic: Taldren Please help a fellow customer out!!!! *DELETED* *DELETED* (Read 8986 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

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Corbomite

Captain KoraH

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Towelie

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Taldren_Admin

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nx_adam_1701

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KRolling

Toasty0

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KRolling

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Topic: Taldren Please help a fellow customer out!!!! DELETED DELETED (Read 8986 times)