Topic: This game runs, and it runs WELL

[ChamadaIV]

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I have had the Can't find CD, stuck at load, crash at mission generation bugs, however, I still think overall (I survived the Dominion Wars crusades, the Pool of Radiance 2 Fiasco's, the NeverWinter Nights annihilation, and various other things to give you an idea why I might be biased in this manner, as well as other buggy game times), that SFC3 is one of the most stable games ever put out.

The list of games you mentioned have indeed faced their problems, as they were total let-downs, aside from  Neverwinter Nights. The game was revolutionary in its own right (though sadly incomplete; the game sports a half-assed version of the extremely well designed d20 3rd edition DnD rules set). The single player campaign was more than playable right out of the box with next to no problems for me (and my PC is somewhat below what you'd call top-o'-the-line).

For SFC3, The single player experience worked solidly, from the first Klingon sortie to the final Federation showdown with the Roms. (oops, little spoiler action there, sorry). It was about 20 hrs of play, if not that, and only one program crash (but this had to be due to my miniscule 256mb ram) occured. No stuck-at-loads, no trouble finding the CD, none of that (i'm running a dual P3 533mhz setup if you're wondering about the load time thing). The only other problem I seem to find from an otherwise solid performing game is the officer database glitch carried over from the first version of SFC2: EAW. The bug involves tremendous slow-downs during single player conquest mode. A problem that will be fixed come patch time...

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Love the game.  Can't get enough of it overall.  SFC3 grows on you, and I still break out the SFC CD and play it to this day...and love it...a sure sign of a great game!  

Aye, that it does, and it sure is. I dare someone else on these boards to say otherwise...why else would you be here, eh? Now if only they could make the Intrepid-class look a smidge better (the deflection/sensor dish looks ugly as hell, albeit a fine 3d model nonetheless   ) and get those warp nacells to fold up when you go to warp speed (just like USS Voyager did, it was the same class after all).

  Don't worry about that Taldren. I'm just giving you guys hell! You guys worked very hard on sfc3, therefore you deserve all the kudos you get...  

[Vysander]

due to the staggering amount of bugs and crashes associated with the multiplayer aspect of this game... i've been letting my cd act as a coaster.... maybe i'll try it again when the patch comes out... but I end up rebooting more with SFC3 in one night than I normally do in a whole month!

(and don't give me that custom config junk... all drivers updated and using very very very popular hardware, 1.8athelon, 512 DDR, geforce 4 TI, SB Live, WinXP pro)

[Subspace]

yea the 2 things that bother me are    loading screen bug & stuck in battle .... Im only speaking of online play single player has been great .....

my comp is a little older but still plenty fine      

P3 1gig,, 512 ram,, SB live,, GF3 TI 500,, 40 gig hard drive ....all latest drivers & DX9
& my connection is 3000kbps down & 500 up cable ,,  

[StarTrekcaptain]

i'm sorry, but really people is this game that bad.  I mean i know i havn't had the ufortunate bugs that many people have had, well i havn't had any, but using the cd as a coaster.  Well thats just damn rude.  I'm sorry if you guys have major problems, but this is a damn good game, its one of the best startrek games i have ever played, and thats something cos i have a huge pc collection of stgames.  

By the way i have the UK version, or at least the EU version (as i live in england) could that be why i don't seem to hae many bugs???

[ChamadaIV]

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due to the staggering amount of bugs and crashes associated with the multiplayer aspect of this game... i've been letting my cd act as a coaster.... maybe i'll try it again when the patch comes out... but I end up rebooting more with SFC3 in one night than I normally do in a whole month!

(and don't give me that custom config junk... all drivers updated and using very very very popular hardware, 1.8athelon, 512 DDR, geforce 4 TI, SB Live, WinXP pro)  

Whoa, calm down there Vysander. I was merely trying to inform, not agitate.    Perhaps I'm one of the lucky ones, who knows? I used to be a long-time console gamer before switching to full blown PC gaming in 1994. So you'd expect I was used to playing bug-free games (as most console games are, particulary Japanese made games). But I'm very stoic and forgiving about bugs not matter how minor or even major they are. As long as they don't keep me from enjoying the game, then I've no problem with it. I can put with load times and annoying random errors and such. All that matters is the gameplay and the fun I'll have when I get past all that crap.

See the blue words in my sig below? Taldren has created a great series of games, bugs or no. I'm devoted to Star Trek, but I'm an even more devoted gamer. For what its worth, SFC3 is a fine piece of software with a few chinks in its armor. Don't worry, those chinks will be fixed soon enough...  

Keep the faith....

 

[Vysander]

I tried.. I really did try to see through the bugs.... I spent a heck of a lot of time on the D3 servers crashing and crashing and crashing.

Just can't take it anymore

As for this Taldren's history... comparing the bugginess of SFC1-3 (yes i own  them all) to other mainstream games of the same complexity, SFC doesn't quite win the crown but comes close in number of bugs blamed on system compatibility

It's had 3 tries to get dynaverse and the multiplayer portion right... while it's greatly improved from SFC1 it's still a disappointment after all these years.

This game is a great game, just missing the warp core
Vysander  

[Pandion]

I only started to see  bugs after I put DX9 on my computer, mainly it was go into a fight SP and nothing would happen hit ESC to quit and suddenly the game come's to life ( and yes I did put on the DX9 fix)  

[Dash Jones]

I've used the game on at a minimum of 9 machines (actually more than that, but that's the minimum of what could be considered) between me and my friends who play it against each other.  If one considers this game buggy, then they

1. Haven't played many games on mulitples of machines, and only play games on generally either one or two machines, or machines with the same makeup overall

2. Haven't really done much bugbusting on most games (of course, most people don't purposely go hunting bugs on games, they don't even worry about them until they hit one, which is why so many are ignorant about what constitutes a buggy game...and what doesn't.  I remember some idiot considering Bridge Commander a buggy game...which was probably one of the most solid unbuggy games released on the PC in past 2 years!  And others, who would state Neverwinters Nights or Pool of Radiance 2 ran fine on their machines, and hence couldn't be buggy!)  When I say SFC3 is relatively unbuggy (relative is a key word overall), trust me, I truly mean it.

3.  If one is now using it as a Coaster, unless that coaster is dang lucky...I can almost guarantee they will have bugs if they try using that CD again, unless they have some way to repair it.  Using something as a coaster tends to add scratches, add heat excesses, and other such nasty things which obviously will lead to self inflicted bugs.  It's not as bad as using it for a frisbee, but heck.  Bad terminolgy right before instituting that one will use the game again.  What did one do before using the game the first time...attempt to polish it with steel wool?  It surprises me what people do to their CD's on the idea that CD's are sturdy (which they are, but abusing still isn't a bright idea) and then expect that CD to run flawless.

4.  I am sorry for those who have problems with the game.  I have had bugs happen to me with the game...so I know what types of bugs that can be caused by them (call it a hobby of mine).  There IS a work around for some of those who have the mission loading freeze that I've discovered works some of the time.  If this bug is happening to you in MP and not in SP, this will do you no good.  HOWEVER, be grateful, as this ALSO happens in SP (discovered it on one of my machines, which just so happens to have more of the bugs occur on it then any other machine, though I am beginning to think some of it's due to how it's configured more than the game itself, considering I have a newer machine with many of the same components that doesn't suffer from any of the problems).  This Loading bug for SP was in the Beta as well.  To work around this, it seems you might have to save after EVERY single mission.  Also, the lack of RAM brings about it much quicker.  I'm not certain what causes it, but if I don't save, I crash (and I mean no CTRL-ALT-DELETE, requires a hardboot crash) after any mission or skirmish (if you exit out and then reenter many times this makes skirmish work over and over again), however if I save, I sometimes can go hours without crashing.

5.  Even with the bugs I've seen, they are NOTHING compared to what I found in other games (Such as the NWN deletes your OS bug, NWN destroys your CD-Rom bug, POR2 undeletes all files including OS bug, and a whole slew of other things that bughunters can find if they really search).  Count yourselves lucky to have such a bugless game as trust me when I say...you think this is buggy, you ain't seen bugs yet.

[Pestalence]

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I love SFC 3. I dont really have any show stoping bugs at all. Occasionaly when in single player after playing a while, I will get a stuck on loading problem, but since it happens rarely, im not bothered at all. I have never come across a set of games like the Starfleet Command series that I have played extensivly without either an invincibility mode or after installing a mod. Yes, the game could be better, but in reality, is there any game out there that couldnt be better?

A somewhat off-topic note: Please do not require DX9 with any patch. I dont play online anyways and downloading a bunch of files just so I can play a game thats patched up would not be fun. Now, if you were to send me Direct X 9 on a disk, you would hear no objections from me!    

Direct X 9 is part of standard system maintainence.. IE : keeping up with technology and having your sstem running smoothely.. Direct X 9 is part of windows updates and it will be a requirement in a short ammount of time when newer games start taking advantage of the Direct X 9 SDK (making games using DirectX 9, thus requiring game player to have Direct X 9 installed)... but if you don't like to keep your system up to date and running smoothely, then don't upgrade.. just remember this conversation when you get a game and you wonder why it Crashes at startup...

also, the Direct X 9 is a small DL.. and comparing to previous SFC titles.. it should be much smaller than the upcoming SFC3 patch...

it's 8.4 Mb IIRC

[Vysander]

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I've used the game on at a minimum of 9 machines (actually more than that, but that's the minimum of what could be considered) between me and my friends who play it against each other.  If one considers this game buggy, then they

1. Haven't played many games on mulitples of machines, and only play games on generally either one or two machines, or machines with the same makeup overall

4 computers, 2 dells (2 years apart in age) and 1 high end desktop,  not a major brand name, 1 high end laptop (forgot brand).  Sorry i'm not rich enough to own 9 computers  Even in normal network LAN environments we typically had a failure of 1 system.

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2. Haven't really done much bugbusting on most games (of course, most people don't purposely go hunting bugs on games, they don't even worry about them until they hit one, which is why so many are ignorant about what constitutes a buggy game...and what doesn't.  I remember some idiot considering Bridge Commander a buggy game...which was probably one of the most solid unbuggy games released on the PC in past 2 years!  And others, who would state Neverwinters Nights or Pool of Radiance 2 ran fine on their machines, and hence couldn't be buggy!)  When I say SFC3 is relatively unbuggy (relative is a key word overall), trust me, I truly mean it.

Been playing computer games since I had an IBM XT  Played all types, adventure games, FPS, RTS, Strategic, MMORPGs, etc, quite a few titles under my belt.  The only one that comes close in multiplayer bugginess is Xwing alliance (heh you want lag that kills... play that game)...

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3.  If one is now using it as a Coaster, unless that coaster is dang lucky...I can almost guarantee they will have bugs if they try using that CD again, unless they have some way to repair it.  Using something as a coaster tends to add scratches, add heat excesses, and other such nasty things which obviously will lead to self inflicted bugs.  It's not as bad as using it for a frisbee, but heck.  Bad terminolgy right before instituting that one will use the game again.  What did one do before using the game the first time...attempt to polish it with steel wool?  It surprises me what people do to their CD's on the idea that CD's are sturdy (which they are, but abusing still isn't a bright idea) and then expect that CD to run flawless.

I find it completely fascinating that you guys don't know sarcasm when you hear it.  Who in their right mind would actually waste a CD (besides an AOL one) as a coaster.  Coaster = it sits around.

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4.  I am sorry for those who have problems with the game.  I have had bugs happen to me with the game...so I know what types of bugs that can be caused by them (call it a hobby of mine).  There IS a work around for some of those who have the mission loading freeze that I've discovered works some of the time.  If this bug is happening to you in MP and not in SP, this will do you no good.  HOWEVER, be grateful, as this ALSO happens in SP (discovered it on one of my machines, which just so happens to have more of the bugs occur on it then any other machine, though I am beginning to think some of it's due to how it's configured more than the game itself, considering I have a newer machine with many of the same components that doesn't suffer from any of the problems).  This Loading bug for SP was in the Beta as well.  To work around this, it seems you might have to save after EVERY single mission.  Also, the lack of RAM brings about it much quicker.  I'm not certain what causes it, but if I don't save, I crash (and I mean no CTRL-ALT-DELETE, requires a hardboot crash) after any mission or skirmish (if you exit out and then reenter many times this makes skirmish work over and over again), however if I save, I sometimes can go hours without crashing.

If you don't save after every single mission you're just asking for it.  I learned that early on in SFC1.

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5.  Even with the bugs I've seen, they are NOTHING compared to what I found in other games (Such as the NWN deletes your OS bug, NWN destroys your CD-Rom bug, POR2 undeletes all files including OS bug, and a whole slew of other things that bughunters can find if they really search).  Count yourselves lucky to have such a bugless game as trust me when I say...you think this is buggy, you ain't seen bugs yet.  

I'm pretty sure that doing a hard reboot every 30 minutes (which would be about every 3rd battle) or so is pretty bad for your computer.  What I would consider acceptable is if I could soft reboot at least out of it (although that's a DX issue most likely).  I've had my share of computer parts damaged over time from wear and tear, i'd prefer to keep my system working as long as possible by not jolting it

[Dash Jones]

Forgive my amazement...the most buggy game you've played has been X-Wing Alliance...don't get out much in the gaming arena...do ya.

Hell, I think even stable releases have more bugs than that now adays.  Hell even then...but I digress.  Let me inform you, if X-wing Alliance has been the one of the most buggy games for you...well, you've had the devils own luck on your side if you game a lot.

Never heard anybody who's an avid gamer have that few problems...

Wow

I really am speechless overall...

Don't know what to say to that except...you are one lucky person...

Remind me never to play Roulette against you.

[Dash Jones]

Okay, a little over my speechlessness.  For MP joyness and happiness, try NWN unpatched (if you can find a fool who still doesn't have it patched...Civ 3-Play the World, and Empire Earth, though one of my favorites, also brings tears of joy for it's buggy nature in MP, just some experiences for you to try out of recent releases to give you more perspective on MP stability).

[Vysander]

Re: Empire earth:  we had a tournament going on a few weekends ago at a 20 person lan party

no problems

No problems with civ 3 network play actually from my friend's report (I wasn't there for that particular one so don't know status on patching)


As for NWN I chose to buy Morrowind over it, so I haven't played it.

Edit:  look, if you look at my post history (if that's possible), I have enjoyed this game until the bugs drove me completely mad.  Besides that all the laggy tractors at range 40, shields dropping, AI blowing up, God-like quantum/AM torpedo boats, innumerable hard crashes, truly stupid AI (let's warp into that planet shall we?  Or let's just go EM and let that human sit on my tail), even goofed up the turn mode (how do you not catch that in QA?), alt-f4'ing problem that's not going to go away because servers won't implement the lose ship on disconnection because we'll still be all crashing from time to time.  This game had potential, I was an old SFB'er (solo player) who bought SFC1 with great hopes... those hopes kept going with SFC2, and I kept waiting on those hopes with SFC2 OP, this here was a desperation buy to see if they had improved the game and dynaverse stablity.  Out of 4 iterations they got the game stability in solo play.  You won't catch me with SFC4.  The upcoming patch may help, but to resolve the fundamental issues may be another matter.  Look at everyone still waiting around for the last needed OP patch.

[Dash Jones]

Empire Earth is playable, but still more buggy overall in my experience in MP than the SFC series.

For Civ 3, fortunately I have more opinions than just my own.  Perhaps you would listen to a reviewer from Gamespot.  This is taken directly from Gamespot.

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Play the World's multiplayer is almost unplayable. In online games, the amount of lag is intolerable. With ping times that would be reasonable for even the most graphics-intensive first-person shooters, Play the World still lags. Even in turn-based modes, where your computer shouldn't be sending or receiving much data during your turn, the game can suffer from excruciatingly slow performance. Simple tasks like opening a city or making a selection from a menu can cause delays in mouse movement of a few seconds. Don't even think about scrolling the map unless you've got some time to kill.

Then there are the crashes. It's not a matter of whether the game will crash, but when it will crash. When you try to play online games with more than just two players, the chances increase exponentially, which makes for some pretty short games. Try joining Civilization III's multiplayer lobby, and you'll find that it's full of irate players in a cramped chat window. You're not going to be playing the world with this game, unless you can get it set up on a LAN or by cramming all your friends into one room and taking turns on a single computer in hotseat mode.


Another modification adds new terrain with richer colors.

LAN and hotseat work better than online games. However, the hotseat mode, which also works as a play-by-email option, is disappointing. There's no replay of the other players' turns. If an enemy unit scoots in and out of your viewing range, you'll never see it. If you lose a unit, it just vanishes and you have no indication it was ever there. If a city falls, you can't see who attacked it. If a unit is lost in a pitched battle, you don't know how damaged the enemy was as a result of the skirmish. There are no special provisions for diplomacy or negotiation, which are drawn out over several turns. File saving and management can be confusing for e-mail games. These problems aren't game breakers, but they indicate that the developer may have just tacked on hotseat and e-mail play without much thought for how well they would work.

though as you said, if it was a lan game, it should run better.  It enacts completely different rules over lan than SP play, which can be quite aggravating.  Lan is MP, but MP is more than LAN.

Another review of the MP this one from Gamespy.

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The Question of Multiplayer


It doesn't work.

Well, that's not entirely fair. It does work, but only after a patch. And it doesn't work well. For an expansion focusing on multiplayer as the key addition, that's a big no-no. The whole of the multiplayer experience is an exercise in frustration as the game will crash and it may do so in a severe fashion. Woe unto those who enjoy the benefits of "Alt-Tabbing" out of the game, as this not only caused my game to crash, but my system to restart as well.

Assuming one is able to wade through the server browser and join a game, the game itself is a mess. Units can, at times, take several seconds to respond to commands -- even just basic movement. And, bringing up diplomacy or city screens (something that happens a lot in any Civ game) also causes similar delays. This was the case when everyone in a game had good connections. This was the case when there were only two people in a game. This was even the case when there were only two people in a game playing against each other (no AI players).


The Internet becomes a wonder of the world. When a game did launch correctly and stay running for many turns, it was clear that the potential for a decent gaming experience is there. Teaming up with other players against the AI was good fun as you can trade tech between your team's civilizations and conquer the world by the middle-ages. Of course, against human players this advantage is non-existent and can make for some furious (and fun) arms races. Unfortunately, a few hundred turns into the game and the performance issues really begin to take their toll on the players. Especially when a game starts with a four or five players and three of the people have crashed or been disconnected before their civilization has a half dozen cities.

That's just starters, so you to say Civ 3 has good MP play, and SFC 3 does not makes me go

 

Does this guy know something the rest of the gaming world does not?  these types of reviews go on and on...so I know it's not just me.  Empire Earth...maybe...but this...I've seen enough to convince me this is not my opinion going haywire here.

Sorry you were driven batty by the bugs.  If you don't like lag, be sure not to play on bnet either for blizzard games...if you were driven batty by this game...you'll hate bnet (plus they tend to have to do rollbacks sometimes on your characters which is aggravating, along with half a million other things, as well as abundant cheats happening constantly in WC3 overall).

I have no clue if the patch will fix those bugs for you or not.  

By the way...I totally love Empire Earth...don't you.  Now that is one heck of a game!  I like the SFC series better myself overall...but Empire Earth is #3 on my list!  That's how much I love that game!