Topic: I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, Part Two (Read 18033 times)

cherokee158 · « **on:** February 10, 2003, 01:08:59 pm »

I paid fifty dollars for SFCIII, a great game by a great developer, which I enjoyed immensely. I then managed to lose the jewel case and it's all important CD-key, either through my own carelessness, or because one of my kids scampered off with it. So I did what any self-respecting consumer who abused their product would do...I called the company for help. What did I get?

The most fascinating and irritating game of toll-call phone button roulette I have ever had to play(and I am a pro). After a long and expensive round of twenty questions with a voice-activated computer who made the AI in SFC look like Hal9000, I finally managed to reach a live human being, who cheerfully explained to me that I was, quite frankly, screwed. They cannot give me a new key. If I send in my CD, they will replace it... but they will not replace the jewel case, unless I send in the old one. (If I had the jewel case, I would not be calling, would I? And what good is a new CD without the jewel case?)

So now I am ten dollars poorer on a long distance call, and I still HAVE NO MOUTH AND I MUST SCREAM.

Y'know, as much as I would like to support Taldren by giving them another fifty bucks, I have a real ethical problem with supporting a company(Activision) that has so little regard for their paying customers. I will never buy another Activision product, I will tell all of my friends never to buy an Activision product, and when the jack-booted soldiers of the DMCA come to my house wanting to know why I downloaded a bootleg copy of SFCIII from the net, I will punch the Activision representative with them in the mouth. (before I get hauled away for twenty to life for circumventing a copyright device on a fifty dollar piece of plastic...ah, Amerika.)

Sorry, Taldren, I love your stuff, and you guys deserve my money. But Activision doesn't.

BTW, the guy on the phone says it happens a lot. (He seemed to feel genuinely bad about telling me to go jump off a bridge) Maybe it would be a good idea to rethink the CD-key thing? Isn't requiring the CD to play the game enough? Even Microsoft isn't that paranoid about piracy. At the very least, a small sticker on the CD with the serial number on it would have saved me no end of grief.

I am, at times, apalled at how quickly we consumers have come to accept these daily insults to our integrity and intelligence. It takes me twenty minutes just to OPEN a CD, after peeling off the multiple little pieces of tape designed to disintegrate instantly when they come into contact with human flesh and painstakingly removing the multiple layers of heat-sealed plastic wrap. I used to be able to open an LP with my thumbnail in seconds. It takes a half hour with bleeding knuckles and a screwdriver to remove an overpriced diecast "collectable" from the multi-tentacled grip of it's box nowadays, when less than ten years ago you could find a toy truck floating around loose in your box of wheaties. And my twenty year old copy of Monopoly STILL works, even after upgrading my kitchen table three times. And yet we all buy and buy again. It's a truly amazing(and disturbing) triumph of marketing over common sense.

Well, I'm done paying for this abuse. I'm not buying from any company that is staffed by people who cannot treat a fellow human being with sympathy and respect. My next gaming dollar will likely go to funagain.com, a marvelous and very aptly-named board game store I just discovered on the web.

If I lose my dice, I can always replace them for about 98 cents.

Cleeve · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2003, 02:52:43 pm »

I am touched by your story sir.

Authentic or not, I've bought it. Drop me a line by e-mail and I will give you my CD-Key. (soulwolf@escape.ca)

I'm so damn busy lately I don't really have time to play SFC3 anymore, so someone might as well get some enjoyment out of it...

cherokee158 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2003, 03:18:32 pm »

A most noble offer! It is refreshing to see that the entire human race has not been assimilated. As tempting as your offer is, I must decline...I would be forever tormented by the thought that you may someday wish to play again, and would not wish to unwittingly implicate you in some obscure shrinkwrap license violation. I WILL be contacting you by e-mail, however, not to accept your generosity, but simply to meet the man who was kind enough to offer. Thank you.

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2003, 03:34:02 pm »

I purchased SFC3 as soon as it was available in my area
I played my copy of SFC3 for three days. That was it.

I have not returned to it since (been a few months now...)
I'm quite sure I will not be using my copy. I could send you
my CD key and you need not fear that I will want to use it.

101 uses for SFC3......

Just let me know.

dgray · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2003, 05:19:46 pm »

I have the game but have no intension of playing it online, I only have a diap up modem and I dont use the internet enough to warrent broadband (which is heavily overpriced and overated in the uk) so you can have my cd key, although i'm not sure if it would work on a US version

LongTooth · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2003, 07:56:30 pm »

Quote:

I purchased SFC3 as soon as it was available in my area
I played my copy of SFC3 for three days. That was it.

I have not returned to it since (been a few months now...)
I'm quite sure I will not be using my copy. I could send you
my CD key and you need not fear that I will want to use it.

101 uses for SFC3......

Just let me know.

Careful my fellow kzin they ban for less here

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2003, 09:13:09 am »

Please note that I realize just what Taldren has done,
and continues to do for us, and in no way do I want to
endanger that. Something to consider

The thread linked there ( Taldren: WON Directory Server is down!!! )
is important to me and the response given is very generous.
I understand that Taldren has no real obligation to continue
to support the D2 but continues to do so.

I am sorry that I voiced my disappointment in SFC3 in this way.
I guess we went a little too far. It is recognised that you have
been on edge lately and I should have been more considerate
and taken that into consideration. I have said my piece on SFC3
on the old forums and I should have left it at that, and do consider
myself lucky that what I said there has not gotten me banned.

I should stick to discussing things like the structure of the
blobs in the SQL database or how to eventually replace the
distributed network architecture of the the WON logon.

I just got a call that might make all this a rather moot point
for me. My landlord is going to sell the house (I have a great deal here)
and if I have to move, with the rents here, I may not be able to afford the
internet any longer (considering it's price too...)

Wow, talk about Karma man. "The world is round", "Time wounds all heels" all that...

I'm waiting for the lighting bolt to come next...

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2003, 09:54:41 am »

I think some people just need to cut these guys a bit of slack, there has been an abunadance of critcism over the past few months. It gets to a certain stage when people doing the criticising have to also step back and maybe consider if they are being totaly reasonable. How many more times do people need to make the same points, I think we all are aware of the games major problems, most will be fixed in the patch that Taldren have already made.

Too many personal insults have been made, and far too many generalizations.

As for the CD key, well too bad I take care of all of my manuals (thats where all my cd keys are for some reason), they stay in the box, with the cd, in a dvd rack. If you buy a MD player, and lose the remote (for some this is the only control mechanism) then do you expect a free one back from the company? This analagy isnt perfect but I felt like I needed one.

When you buy a game you buy one liscense which is contained within a code. This is done so that people can copy the CD as many times as they like, but its going to be harder to make 100% useful copies, this is thanks to numerous warez sites and people who make copies not only for there friends but for everybody on there block (for a price of course) at the expense of publishers AND developers.

I mean OH MY F'IN GOD you have a CD which is pretty much impossible to break without using extream force, and a single line worth of security code. You pay $50 or £35 for this, you would think you would take better care of it. If not then its not the publishers fault, they are under no obligation to give you another liscense.

Big

for giving your CD key away, however, big

for constantly dissing (whoever they may be, no names mentioned).

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2003, 11:50:17 pm »

Thank you Blitzkrieg.

I just wanted to be sure that wasn't directed at me.
Sorry If I jumped.

cherokee158 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2003, 10:09:52 am »

I agree with Blitzkrieg that we should all weigh our words carefully when commenting on Taldren's product. And I sympathize for the developers, who care enough about what their customers think to provide a place for use to voice our opinions, and to wade through a lot of abuse on these forums in search of feedback.

But I feel quite entitled to complain about a company(Activision) that treats me as if I am less than human. And by human, I mean someone who sometimes loses things. Someone who thinks something as immaterial as a twenty cent jewel case with a numbered sticker on it should be easily replaceable. Someone who prefers to talk to people long-distance, rather than play twenty questions with a machine.

I am most impressed that some extraordinary people here clearly do not suffer from these human weaknesses. (although I am concerned that they find it difficult to break a flimsy plastic jewel case without considerable effort. Perhaps a few push-ups?)

And I understand perfectly well that game companies struggle against software piracy, and are constantly striving to protect their profits. I also know that the movie and music industry has been forced to come to terms with the same thing. And, despite their constant laments of lost profits, both Bill Gates and Mike Eisner seem quite comfortable to me.

The fact is, most people are genuinely honest. (and, of the remaining dishonest people, the vast majority prefer to avoid criminal charges) And most people are willing to pay for reasonably priced entertainment, especially if they have confidence that their money is going to the entertainers they love. It's quicker, easier, free of guilt and the money goes to make more entertainment.

It is only companies that abuse their consumers by overcharging them, releasing sub-standard products and providing lacklustre customer service that need fear piracy. In my youth, I did not know a single person who did not own a bootleg cassette tape of some band or another. And yet, somehow, the music industry survived...if you can call mansions in LA surviving.

Even with all of this dreaded piracy, computer and console game companies outgrossed movie makers last year. So you will forgive me if I fail to see the peril inherent in making life for the honest user just a little bit easier by helping a paying customer revive his product by issuing a replacement number, or placing an additional sticker on the CD, or simply foregoing the CD key altogether. (After all, it is already a criminal offense to use a no-CD crack under the DMCA. What further copy protection do you need? Isn't it enough that people guilty of a fifty-dollar theft can be convicted of a felony?)

It is my belief that software companies have let the fear of piracy erode the value of their product by making it so user-unfriendly that many of us no longer feel it is even worth paying for. (witness the latest batch of copy-protected audio CD's that won't play at all on many players) Since I am generally an honest person, I have simply chosen to stop buying games from Activision. (For this and other reasons...I have not been impressed by their prior releases, either) I have also chosen to say so in a public forum, which is my right. (for another few years, anyway) I believe my comments are constructive, in that I have identified a problem and suggested several possible solutions. I have voiced them here in hopes that the powersthat be may actually notice, and reconsider their self-destructive policy of treating all customers as if they are potential criminals.

And if someone out there thinks I am a moron for losing my jewel case, well...I look forward to the day it happensto them.

Promise I won't laugh.

Ex Malterra · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2003, 11:06:53 am »

i hope you find your jewel case.

cherokee158 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2003, 01:08:59 pm »

I paid fifty dollars for SFCIII, a great game by a great developer, which I enjoyed immensely. I then managed to lose the jewel case and it's all important CD-key, either through my own carelessness, or because one of my kids scampered off with it. So I did what any self-respecting consumer who abused their product would do...I called the company for help. What did I get?

The most fascinating and irritating game of toll-call phone button roulette I have ever had to play(and I am a pro). After a long and expensive round of twenty questions with a voice-activated computer who made the AI in SFC look like Hal9000, I finally managed to reach a live human being, who cheerfully explained to me that I was, quite frankly, screwed. They cannot give me a new key. If I send in my CD, they will replace it... but they will not replace the jewel case, unless I send in the old one. (If I had the jewel case, I would not be calling, would I? And what good is a new CD without the jewel case?)

So now I am ten dollars poorer on a long distance call, and I still HAVE NO MOUTH AND I MUST SCREAM.

Y'know, as much as I would like to support Taldren by giving them another fifty bucks, I have a real ethical problem with supporting a company(Activision) that has so little regard for their paying customers. I will never buy another Activision product, I will tell all of my friends never to buy an Activision product, and when the jack-booted soldiers of the DMCA come to my house wanting to know why I downloaded a bootleg copy of SFCIII from the net, I will punch the Activision representative with them in the mouth. (before I get hauled away for twenty to life for circumventing a copyright device on a fifty dollar piece of plastic...ah, Amerika.)

Sorry, Taldren, I love your stuff, and you guys deserve my money. But Activision doesn't.

BTW, the guy on the phone says it happens a lot. (He seemed to feel genuinely bad about telling me to go jump off a bridge) Maybe it would be a good idea to rethink the CD-key thing? Isn't requiring the CD to play the game enough? Even Microsoft isn't that paranoid about piracy. At the very least, a small sticker on the CD with the serial number on it would have saved me no end of grief.

I am, at times, apalled at how quickly we consumers have come to accept these daily insults to our integrity and intelligence. It takes me twenty minutes just to OPEN a CD, after peeling off the multiple little pieces of tape designed to disintegrate instantly when they come into contact with human flesh and painstakingly removing the multiple layers of heat-sealed plastic wrap. I used to be able to open an LP with my thumbnail in seconds. It takes a half hour with bleeding knuckles and a screwdriver to remove an overpriced diecast "collectable" from the multi-tentacled grip of it's box nowadays, when less than ten years ago you could find a toy truck floating around loose in your box of wheaties. And my twenty year old copy of Monopoly STILL works, even after upgrading my kitchen table three times. And yet we all buy and buy again. It's a truly amazing(and disturbing) triumph of marketing over common sense.

Well, I'm done paying for this abuse. I'm not buying from any company that is staffed by people who cannot treat a fellow human being with sympathy and respect. My next gaming dollar will likely go to funagain.com, a marvelous and very aptly-named board game store I just discovered on the web.

If I lose my dice, I can always replace them for about 98 cents.

Cleeve · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2003, 02:52:43 pm »

I am touched by your story sir.

Authentic or not, I've bought it. Drop me a line by e-mail and I will give you my CD-Key. (soulwolf@escape.ca)

I'm so damn busy lately I don't really have time to play SFC3 anymore, so someone might as well get some enjoyment out of it...

cherokee158 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2003, 03:18:32 pm »

A most noble offer! It is refreshing to see that the entire human race has not been assimilated. As tempting as your offer is, I must decline...I would be forever tormented by the thought that you may someday wish to play again, and would not wish to unwittingly implicate you in some obscure shrinkwrap license violation. I WILL be contacting you by e-mail, however, not to accept your generosity, but simply to meet the man who was kind enough to offer. Thank you.

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2003, 03:34:02 pm »

I purchased SFC3 as soon as it was available in my area
I played my copy of SFC3 for three days. That was it.

I have not returned to it since (been a few months now...)
I'm quite sure I will not be using my copy. I could send you
my CD key and you need not fear that I will want to use it.

101 uses for SFC3......

Just let me know.

dgray · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2003, 05:19:46 pm »

I have the game but have no intension of playing it online, I only have a diap up modem and I dont use the internet enough to warrent broadband (which is heavily overpriced and overated in the uk) so you can have my cd key, although i'm not sure if it would work on a US version

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #30 on:** February 11, 2003, 09:13:09 am »

Please note that I realize just what Taldren has done,
and continues to do for us, and in no way do I want to
endanger that. Something to consider

The thread linked there ( Taldren: WON Directory Server is down!!! )
is important to me and the response given is very generous.
I understand that Taldren has no real obligation to continue
to support the D2 but continues to do so.

I am sorry that I voiced my disappointment in SFC3 in this way.
I guess we went a little too far. It is recognised that you have
been on edge lately and I should have been more considerate
and taken that into consideration. I have said my piece on SFC3
on the old forums and I should have left it at that, and do consider
myself lucky that what I said there has not gotten me banned.

I should stick to discussing things like the structure of the
blobs in the SQL database or how to eventually replace the
distributed network architecture of the the WON logon.

I just got a call that might make all this a rather moot point
for me. My landlord is going to sell the house (I have a great deal here)
and if I have to move, with the rents here, I may not be able to afford the
internet any longer (considering it's price too...)

Wow, talk about Karma man. "The world is round", "Time wounds all heels" all that...

I'm waiting for the lighting bolt to come next...

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #31 on:** February 11, 2003, 09:54:41 am »

I think some people just need to cut these guys a bit of slack, there has been an abunadance of critcism over the past few months. It gets to a certain stage when people doing the criticising have to also step back and maybe consider if they are being totaly reasonable. How many more times do people need to make the same points, I think we all are aware of the games major problems, most will be fixed in the patch that Taldren have already made.

Too many personal insults have been made, and far too many generalizations.

As for the CD key, well too bad I take care of all of my manuals (thats where all my cd keys are for some reason), they stay in the box, with the cd, in a dvd rack. If you buy a MD player, and lose the remote (for some this is the only control mechanism) then do you expect a free one back from the company? This analagy isnt perfect but I felt like I needed one.

When you buy a game you buy one liscense which is contained within a code. This is done so that people can copy the CD as many times as they like, but its going to be harder to make 100% useful copies, this is thanks to numerous warez sites and people who make copies not only for there friends but for everybody on there block (for a price of course) at the expense of publishers AND developers.

I mean OH MY F'IN GOD you have a CD which is pretty much impossible to break without using extream force, and a single line worth of security code. You pay $50 or £35 for this, you would think you would take better care of it. If not then its not the publishers fault, they are under no obligation to give you another liscense.

Big

for giving your CD key away, however, big

for constantly dissing (whoever they may be, no names mentioned).

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #34 on:** February 11, 2003, 11:50:17 pm »

Thank you Blitzkrieg.

I just wanted to be sure that wasn't directed at me.
Sorry If I jumped.

cherokee158 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 12, 2003, 10:09:52 am »

I agree with Blitzkrieg that we should all weigh our words carefully when commenting on Taldren's product. And I sympathize for the developers, who care enough about what their customers think to provide a place for use to voice our opinions, and to wade through a lot of abuse on these forums in search of feedback.

But I feel quite entitled to complain about a company(Activision) that treats me as if I am less than human. And by human, I mean someone who sometimes loses things. Someone who thinks something as immaterial as a twenty cent jewel case with a numbered sticker on it should be easily replaceable. Someone who prefers to talk to people long-distance, rather than play twenty questions with a machine.

I am most impressed that some extraordinary people here clearly do not suffer from these human weaknesses. (although I am concerned that they find it difficult to break a flimsy plastic jewel case without considerable effort. Perhaps a few push-ups?)

And I understand perfectly well that game companies struggle against software piracy, and are constantly striving to protect their profits. I also know that the movie and music industry has been forced to come to terms with the same thing. And, despite their constant laments of lost profits, both Bill Gates and Mike Eisner seem quite comfortable to me.

The fact is, most people are genuinely honest. (and, of the remaining dishonest people, the vast majority prefer to avoid criminal charges) And most people are willing to pay for reasonably priced entertainment, especially if they have confidence that their money is going to the entertainers they love. It's quicker, easier, free of guilt and the money goes to make more entertainment.

It is only companies that abuse their consumers by overcharging them, releasing sub-standard products and providing lacklustre customer service that need fear piracy. In my youth, I did not know a single person who did not own a bootleg cassette tape of some band or another. And yet, somehow, the music industry survived...if you can call mansions in LA surviving.

Even with all of this dreaded piracy, computer and console game companies outgrossed movie makers last year. So you will forgive me if I fail to see the peril inherent in making life for the honest user just a little bit easier by helping a paying customer revive his product by issuing a replacement number, or placing an additional sticker on the CD, or simply foregoing the CD key altogether. (After all, it is already a criminal offense to use a no-CD crack under the DMCA. What further copy protection do you need? Isn't it enough that people guilty of a fifty-dollar theft can be convicted of a felony?)

It is my belief that software companies have let the fear of piracy erode the value of their product by making it so user-unfriendly that many of us no longer feel it is even worth paying for. (witness the latest batch of copy-protected audio CD's that won't play at all on many players) Since I am generally an honest person, I have simply chosen to stop buying games from Activision. (For this and other reasons...I have not been impressed by their prior releases, either) I have also chosen to say so in a public forum, which is my right. (for another few years, anyway) I believe my comments are constructive, in that I have identified a problem and suggested several possible solutions. I have voiced them here in hopes that the powersthat be may actually notice, and reconsider their self-destructive policy of treating all customers as if they are potential criminals.

And if someone out there thinks I am a moron for losing my jewel case, well...I look forward to the day it happensto them.

Promise I won't laugh.

Ex Malterra · « **Reply #36 on:** February 12, 2003, 11:06:53 am »

i hope you find your jewel case.

News:

Topic: I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, Part Two (Read 18033 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

cherokee158

Cleeve

cherokee158

**DONOTDELETE**

dgray

LongTooth

David Ferrell

ChrsLWlstr

3dot14

**DONOTDELETE**

LongTooth

**DONOTDELETE**

Blitzkrieg

**DONOTDELETE**

Blitzkrieg

**DONOTDELETE**

cherokee158

Ex Malterra

Aliasalpha

cherokee158

Cleeve

cherokee158

**DONOTDELETE**

dgray

LongTooth

David Ferrell

ChrsLWlstr

3dot14

**DONOTDELETE**

LongTooth

**DONOTDELETE**

Blitzkrieg

**DONOTDELETE**

Blitzkrieg

**DONOTDELETE**

cherokee158

Ex Malterra

Aliasalpha

Topic: I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, Part Two (Read 18033 times)

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE