Topic: I have noticed something in reading post's. (Read 5991 times)

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2003, 03:05:50 pm »

I am still praying for you Az.

shadpwriath · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2003, 04:03:53 pm »

Yes I have and win most of the time, side for the people who do what ever it takes to win even resorting to a less then hounerable tactic (yes theres people out there that say "if it works use it")...I just prefore the more hounerable tactics (not the ones that just get you a win) I mean where's the fun and thrill with out the challenge. I am also expecting this post to have flameing in it as these type tend to with some people...wiser people wouldn't sink to the level of flameing. Besides thats not what I was looking for....I was looking for more then a flame war.

I didn't say use mines against smaller hulls but on them. Those small hulls are useally too small to place and run in their own shield's and have too much manuvrablity to be effective against them.

My main ship for Feds is the Defeint which I can use to take out every hull in a one on one (other then cube as you can collide with it)...only has a problem against smaller hulls as they can equal it's manuverablity. The big strength for it is useing the AMML on it...and have more then one just waste's space as it changes your normal mines to AMM ones and doesn't add to the amount you can carry or increase the rate you can deply them.

Ships designed with one goal in mind are weak on the whole as the ones built around one type of attacking need surport when either out of ammo or faced with an planned encounter

Sorry about my name but when I got my account set it was that way, tried to change it but nope (should be "shadowriath"..yes the I and the A are backwords for a reason). And yes this is may native language..thus why I'm weak at it, cause if you have forgotten US schools have a below top 50 rateing of nations (and thats the best in the US not counting the states that are low enough that dropping out gives the same education as gradurateing). Beside's book knowledge is all they teach at schools...not commen or street which is needed to live by. The bluk of the US residents care more about the all mighty profit (up to a 100,000% mark up for profit...10% is taught as goal in buniness class's) margin then the quality of serivce or goods.

Teck · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2003, 05:05:30 pm »

*Fails to understand anything that has been said so far, then realizes:

Troll bait

*and thus, leaves it at that*

Vysander · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2003, 05:11:47 pm »

Quote:

My main ship for Feds is the Defeint which I can use to take out every hull in a one on one

ok..... that's all I need to hear.. another mine laying defiant which runs around with a DN AI or two as an ally.

one word comes to mind: Cheap

Explanation: Lez see, smaller faster ship... you chase/warp after it and his AIs gut you ... you try to deal with the AI and this guy runs you over with his mines and guts you. Can't wait for the implementation of fleet leader > fleet units.....

shadpwriath · « **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2003, 05:17:15 pm »

Nope, I go solo with no AI back up. The thing with the Defeint is you choose which faceing the attacker hits you on and you can stay away from their front.

You the player are the lead of your group, your back if any should be smaller the you are. The next fact is that if your not confinet enough in your own skills to go head to head in a one on one (or more), then why are you trying for.

shadpwriath · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2003, 05:32:12 pm »

Staying just out of tractor range but not out far enough where they have time to turn to aim the forword arc. But when you got a speed of 50 to 90 with a turning of .90 to 1.50, you can almost turn on a dime just under 3/4 impluse. And if your useing AMML, your already suicidal since the only way to get them to work is flying to range 0 of your target and being out of range before he is.

Pestalence · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2003, 07:15:17 pm »

Speaking of tactics against mines... Retail version, using AMM's is an exploit on a weapon bug...

has anyone looked into the common settings folder under weapons.gf file ?

Code:


[MineItems\STANDARD MINELAYER]
Description = "STD MINELAYER"
Cost = 1000
Mass = 150
Health = 35
Energy = 1.0
Damage = 9.0
Race = "BFKR"
UnavailableForRefit = 1


[MineItems\ANTIMATTER MINELAYER]
Description = "ANTI MINELAYER"
Cost = 1500
Mass = 200
Health = 35
Energy = 1.0
Damage = 15.0
Race = "BFKR"

it lists Standard mine damage to be 9 pts and Anti-Matter mines to do 15 damage...

Guess what, mines are doing 35 damage currently, however, they are fixed to their normal damage in the upcoming patch.. this will automatically change tactics as it will take almost 2.5 times as many passes by a fast ship with the upcoming patch to do the same damage as the mines are currently in retail version...

35 damage * 4 passes * 2 mines = 280 pts damage (retail version)

15 damage * 4 passes * 2 mines = 120 damage (upcoming patch)

thats a difference of 160 damage.. which means for 2 mines per pass the player would have to make an additional 6 passes dropping mines (5 at 2 mines, 1 with 1 mine = 15 * 2 * 5 + 15 = 165 damage) in the patch version which fixes damage for AMM...

now let's look at the number of mines... let's say a ship only carries 12 mines

in the upcoming patch, player uses 8 mines in 4 passes.. thus leaving 4 mines.... and only applying 120 damage instead of the 280 damage in the current version...

the player would need an additional 11 mines in order to match the damage (actually to exceed by 5 pts damage) of the retail version, however, they only have 4 mines left.... so at most an additional 60 pts for a total of 180 points damage... then they will either have to warp out.. or get shot up.. or decide to refit their ship to be more effective and stop using high speed mine layers...

this is going to change tactics drastically for mine layers as the damage in the mines is fixed in upcoming patch.... No more bug and no more exploit or cheese in mine layers...

This is not Nerfing the mines.. it is just restoring them to the actual ammount of damage that is already listed in the weapons.gf file... basically putting them back to the way they were intended to be... a support weapon, not a cheese weapon to be exploited...

Also, turn ratio is adjusted on all ships and weapons that were bugged were fixed.. everyone will have a new learning curve as what you know in the retail version will be quite different.

These were confirmed in the recalled public beta patch (not available for DL per Activision, so don't ask for it)... however, even the changes in the public beta version have been revised several times and is quite a different animal.

just letting you know...

Tulmahk · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2003, 07:34:47 pm »

I've never been so happy to see a Pestalence come along!

I've been saying all along that this loadout is an exploit, and here is the empirical, irrefutable proof of that! The AMML is officially a cheat/exploit! I owe you a Guinness, Pestalence.

However, concerns remain. A Sov can theoretically carry 6 AMMLs:

15 damage * 4 passes * 6 mines = 360 damage

If I got my numbers right, that's still a 1 pass kill of a DN, so server admins will still be advised to limit AMMLs to 1 per ship. (I hope my numbers are wrong.)

Please do pass this along to BattleClinic.com, so the good SgnhDubh can take an official stance on this: AMMLs are cheating! And if you don't, I'll write the article myself.

shadpwriath · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2003, 08:16:50 pm »

Thought it kinda odd to need only one AMM to take out any sheild faceing on anything.

Besides, I only use AMML on Defient and one at that. Thusly because to even get a hit with a mine you need to be traveling fast and drop it the targets sheild ring....and only on slow targets plus those slow targets unless you can take beating will nearly do their job before you get to them. So right there makes it not worth that much of use.

To make it better with the mines..instead of rules just write so that you can only have one AMML as each AMML increase drop rate..eek at retail that is just evil and can cut a ship in half with little no trouble.
As for standred mines...they are just a deterent for AI units when they tail gate you (I hate that).

Now what is a bug is the mounting multiple AMML's to get a faster drop rate...I thought that mounting an AMML just changed your standred mines and did nothing beyound that.

--------------------

Tactics I see being used is for !!fighter craft dog fighting!!.......isn't this suspos to be a type of navel combat?? which use's more broadsideing and circleing with some long range pecking.

TarMinyatur · « **Reply #30 on:** February 10, 2003, 08:48:44 pm »

"35 damage * 4 passes * 2 mines = 280 pts damage (retail version)

15 damage * 4 passes * 2 mines = 120 damage (upcoming patch) "

Don't forget to multiply the weapon's base damage by the OPS officer's skill modifier.

Skill: Damage Modifier
1: 0.9
2: 1
3: 1.05
4: 1.1
5: 1.2
6: 1.3

A legendary OPS officer (x1.3) increases Antimatter mine damage from 35 to 45.5! Even with a base damage of 15, AMM's could still be formidable in dealing out 13.5 to 19.5 damage (based on OPS skill).

Cruis.In · « **Reply #32 on:** February 10, 2003, 09:58:31 pm »

i dont understand what in his original post provoked the response he has received.

anyway i have question, you said one of those pulses hits its just as good? i dont think so, all need to hit to be powerful and each individual hit is weak.

amen.

shadpwriath · « **Reply #33 on:** February 10, 2003, 10:23:50 pm »

I'm talking about the single weapon fire, not a single pluse of the single weapon.

Vysander

Re: I have noticed something in reading post's.

Akhilles

Re: I have noticed something in reading post's.

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