Topic: Why I hate Bob erm cloak I mean

[Blitzkrieg]

Hail: all nice people who don?t to get into an argument or get sworn at because I?m that p***ed off! Please kindly avert your eyes

Today I went onto Activision C to see the Borg had one it, well done but did anyone have a doubt with 2 Borg cubes on the lose? Should really watch out for those Borg, they are more sneaky than some Romulans

Anyway, I went about getting my Defiant back as this was my goal for playing on this server. I wanted to see how much damage could be done with this light ship; eventually after taking out some heavy AI I managed to find someone wiling to fight me.

<Enter EvilBob>

Now the thing is with Klingons is that they are not as brave and warrior like as some would pretend, like the TV show this isn?t. Evilbob had himself a K?tinga plus Vor?cha and Fek?lhr AI backup, whilst myself I was in a Norway and had a Norway plus Intrepid AI backup, fairly even match I think not. Anyway I asked him not to attack, explaining that I thought with all this AI we would never get a good game.

He agreed and moved on his way, coming back a few minutes with a Fek?lhr as his ship with the same AI and in tow. I was at the time refitting and didn?t see him approach or attack. I asked him why he had done this he didn?t respond till we got in game.

He said he never said what I just said he said ? anyway I said my mistake good luck he said this back. All nice you may think, yes? Well we had a good fight but I was clearly outmatched in terms of firepower, 3 CA?s against 3 CL?s can be a bit of a task. So leaving politely after nearly taking out the Fek?lhr we went our separate ways.

It didn?t bother me that much, I soon got a few more PP, finally getting myself into that Defiant I always wanted (dreamy eyed). I also got myself a few more AI, Excelsior and Intrepid I do believe. ?Yes? I think, there is EvilBob I can get him this time (he got himself a Negh?var wing by this point).

Wishing him good luck once more we start fighting only to find that the lag is our greatest enemy. It got so bad that at one point, the Excelsior, Intrepid and Vor?cha blew up all at the same time! This left me a fairly fresh Defiant against a human Fek?lhr and a Negh?var AI. I?m not giving up though, this time we are both leaving here with no AI.

I have to be honest, with great skill and determination I took out the Negh?var and cause him some damage to, but by the time the Negh?var blew, I was a goner and had to run. He told me I was a coward etc, I still said good game and left, feeling quite happy with myself.

Once in chat he changed his tune, he said he was lucky enough to get himself a new Negh?var wing again, I said I?m off for dinner soon. This was as travelling to the nearest dock as this is normally where I leave a ship before logging off. What did I find, EvilBob attacking in the same place against 2 unknown Fed AI with his Negh?var as backup. I couldn?t help myself so jumped into the fray at the last minute. I think it was a Nebula and a Norway I had jumped in to save. I apologised for jumping in as I had just said I was leaving, wishing him good luck again he says now the tables have turned and I outnumber him.

Thinking this guy sounds a bit strange I figure I should just get on with things and take out his AI again, and then he would be mine! Both my AI start being on the Negh?var and would have beaten it alone, he does his best to help but I?m doing him so much damage in my now improved Defiant. So much was this an but kicking that after a few minutes he cloaks then warps out. I say good game and he starts talking to me about how he?s going to get himself another Negh?var and come back to get me. I tell him I look forward to the challenge.

I then join my AI wings in assaulting this Negh?var not convinced he?s left and not to my surprise he de-cloaks and try?s a sneak attack. ?Not going to happen? I think, HET then wallop I get him real good his hull is taking a beating plus lights are going out all over this ship. He then somehow manages to get some damage past my shields, I think he was hosting and my shields must have appeared down to him. This process repeated, until the AI DN was a goner.

I then said good game once more, he didn?t leave. He said he had plenty of beer with him, which indicated to me that this was going to be a problem. I then do my best to search the area for him no avail. Eventually I get sick of this and explain that he should either fight or leave and if he doesn?t leave then the game will end in a draw. He kindly explains he would rather a draw then a defeat.

This really angered me; I thought for god?s sake we are going to have to wait 4 or 5 minutes just to draw? Either way I wasn?t going anywhere so I kept searching the sector for him. I would now and then wait for him, to see if he would attack. To my disgust he does, missing with every shot I HET and manage to get a shot in on him as he warps out and re-cloaks. This process repeats and I begin to get so very mad he begins de-cloaking from great range and firing at me now instead, its coming up to 25-30 minutes for the game now as well!

I start saying he?s too much of a coward to be a Klingon and he jokes back saying that?s not much coming from me. I then go on to say this is pathetic and he is pathetic for doing something so lame. Finally I lose my temper and start swearing at him, he then said he was only doing this to get me angry.

This then made me think another 15 minutes with this guy for a draw wasn?t worth, I said fine I?ll quite and Alt+F4?d. My only hope was that he got suck in game, and would need to reset his account before he could continue playing here. I will, when I have calmed down, go back to this server to harass this guy only. I don?t care anymore about AMML X4 ships are people who Alt+F4 (yes I know some people will think I was wrong to do it but eh), I will be bumping this topic to the top constantly for months on end; you will not see the end of it until it is sorted out. Do you understand me you will not keep me quiet, Taldren you must do something about the cloak to stop people doing this. I know some people rely on it a great deal but to remain cloaked for many minutes then de-cloak fire re-cloak from distance is disgusting.

Personally I think the cloak is poor right now due to bugs, but its not buggy enough that I could detect this guy now is it? I?m sorry but YOU HAVE TO SORT THIS OUT, PLEASE.

Regards, an extremely irate and angry,

Tom

P.S. Thanks to anyone who took the time to read this I know it?s a bit long.

P.P.S. I dont know if I made myself clear, but for 10 minutes or so this guy made every effort not to have to fight me, please do not come back telling me its his right to do this as this game isnt called "sit here in the freezing bloody cold, tired, with a need for coffee and WC relief while some dopey twit pi**es around"!  

[MrX]

Have you considered using a level 5 computer? It has an anti-cloak pinger e.g. radar.  

[Blitzkrieg]

Yes I know lol Im not a complete new player   Dosnt take away from the fact that its only going to get worse  with the patch

[StarTrekcaptain]

Just a thought if that happens again.  If people who claok like that really piss you off, cos they do me, after a match has begun to exced about 15 minutes i use the old cloak bug in the unpatched game.  Bearing in mind that this is the ONLY time i use it, i don't cheat but sometimes these guys REALLY piss me off.  For those of you who don't know, if you have engeged the follow target button from the helms control, you can sucessfully continue following him while he is cloaked, IF ou engaged the button before he cloaked and do not move your ship any where else.  So then when you getting pissed of with them, you can fire off a probe, and detect him them fire away.

I know this is cheating but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

:-)

[Azrael]

Blitz,

You surprise me.  It can be a really frustrating thing to have someone "jerk you around" online, but to come into forums saying "Player X is a Stoopidhead" is poor form.

Even if Player X is a Stoopidhead.

An important thing to remember is, that if you go into a battle and give your enemy the kind of fight he's looking for, he's already got the advantage.

The Defiant is a nippy ship that can pack a whallop.  Whether intentionally or not, as  Klingon, he was using very sound tactics.

Once your crew improves and you can get a decent range, going "toe to toe" with the Feds is for the impatient or overconfident.

As a Klingon, I will use my cloak to maximum adantage.  I don't want your ship anywhere near mine.  I will acheive maximum range, decloak, shoot, then cloak again and reposition.

Unfortunately, it's a tactic that most Fed players seem to find frustrating, usually because the battle is not going the "way" they wanted.

They usually make a point of stating that even though they "have not been defeated" they are leaving anyway because they're bored.

Pretty dumb excuse, since they are leaving because they are losing.

Now let me point out that I'm definately not trying to "peg" you as one of those types of players.

Secondly, to cloak about, just for the sake of "hiding", hoping your enemy will disengage so you can have the victory is poor play.  It's a tactic invented by the Federation.  You may remember a post about it a while back, about fed players in smaller ships, who used to warp about the map, hoping their enemy would get bored and disengage.

Unfortunately, if Player X was being that kind of Pillock, you allowed him to gain a psychological victory over you as well as a (questionably) tactical one.

You have a wealth of advantages open to you as a Fed player.  It's generally recognised that "cloaked" ships are too easy to detect.  

Fit a computer V, flip your scanners on, and use those probes.

Ultimately, if someone's being an "arse" online, why waste your time with them.  Warp out and enjoy yourself with players who came to play.

This is going to feel kind of horrible for you, but if Player X visits the Forum, he's going to think that he's twice as clever as he thought before, since he's driven you to making this post.

Never argue with an idiot.  They always drag you down to their level.

It's the same thing with playing them.

Hope you cool off soon.  You've lots of posts on the Forums, and I read them all with interest.

Azrael  

[Aenigma]

You don't want to see me fly Romulan ships then. Still a bit of unklingonlike action.

Should you run into a Romulan, keep in mind that we don't win shoot-outs, and that we will have to be patient for you to make a mistake. This can be an extremely prolonged battle, but if you don't want to fight it, just leave.

Players who abuse the cloak to make the game a draw are dishonourable cowards.

Aenigma  

[Blitzkrieg]

No I understand perfectly, I play both Klingon and Romulan aswell. Specificaly I have a Klingon DN on activision B which I will requently cloak when required. Also I understand that Romulans are heavily outgunned against pretty much everyone except the Ferrengi   So yes cloak, snipe, cloak and snipe again, all good fun, ill find you eventualy or not as the case may be

The thing was he said he couldnt repair any more, and he was doing this just to annoy me to avoid fighting me. What I suspect happened there was his cloak was damaged in the fire fight and he made the mistake of trying to repair it, maybe he had had one too many beers? He had tried to snipe me from afar, it didnt work, his ship was taking more damage with each attempt. Then he stopped, he just wouldnt continue, I dont know how the game didnt end. He just wouldnt fight me and was going for the draw, I shouldnt have to fit a level 5 computer because my opponant wants to sit there in the corner of the map preying I dont find him.

Whats more is I didnt have 3,000pp to spare to do this, should everyone have to do this? Maybe the game needs some ballancing here eh?

He actually did win yes, he won the engagment and he got me mad, making him the victor. However I will get him back, I refuse to give up.

[Subspace]

I will cloak & snipe ,,, but in GSA if im going to die ,,, & you can tell ;I will fight it out ...  but in the D3 if my romulan is going to lose I will  just leave the sector bite my lip & go damit damit & well some other things, but this is a public forum ...

Some people just dont want to admit when their beat !!!!! &  Some people just try & be an ass  

[Aenigma]

The latest Tal Shiar reports confirm that most Klingons are quite light on cloak, so lvl 5 or even lvl 4 computers are useful against them. Be advised that using a lvl 5 computer against a lvl 5 cloak is usually quite pointless. See my cloak tests at  SghnDubh's Battleclinic, when it comes online again (if you see my signature piccie displayed, it is online again). Bear in mind that Fed computers are the same as Klingon ones when it comes to detection.

Arrain Aenigma

PS SghnDubh, i hope your wrist heals quickly.  

[korus]

  I'm sorry you had a bad experience on the D 3, but there are some jerks on it(I'm not naming names )  that will do their best to spoil your online fun.  As a Rom currently I do adopt the cloak hit run cycle....  Most Feds complain that's cheating and want a drag out fight... Rom ships aren't built for knockout battles... Unless Plasma becomes fixed in the patch...  Anyway don't let one apple spoil your fun.  If you really want to tick him off fight him in a nebula... cloak is useless there... Hope to see you on the D3!

Korus  

[Corbomite]

I find this whole thing funny. People screamed and screamed about getting a "real" cloak and now when they get it all we hear is screaming and more screaming about the "real" cloak. If they had implemented it like it was in SFB (oh no I said the unholy words!) you would have your real cloak, but none of these problems. Oh well.

[NBK Dekan]

Quote:
Blitz,
As a Klingon, I will use my cloak to maximum adantage.  I don't want your ship anywhere near mine.  I will acheive maximum range, decloak, shoot, then cloak again and reposition.

Azrael    

This is a good tactic, but the problem is that you have to keep your speed at 1/4 impulse to have maximum cloak, least chance of being detected.  At this slow speed, it is difficult to impossible to get into good position behind and to the side arc of your opponent because they are probably going too much faster, and you can't gain on them without giving your cloak away.

[Aenigma]

 

Quote:
 

Quote:


Blitz,
As a Klingon, I will use my cloak to maximum advantage. I don't want your ship anywhere near mine. I will achieve maximum range, decloak, shoot, then cloak again and reposition.

Azrael

This is a good tactic, but the problem is that you have to keep your speed at 1/4 impulse to have maximum cloak, least chance of being detected. At this slow speed, it is difficult to impossible to get into good position behind and to the side arc of your opponent because they are probably going too much faster, and you can't gain on them without giving your cloak away.

I always wondered how people actually came up with this 1/4 impulse statistic. I've heard rumors about this being mentioned in a single player mission, which I haven't played yet, but honestly i don't believe this is true. A Romulan lvl 5 cloak is quite failproof at full impulse, actually it is perfect cloak (i've never been detected by feds or klingons when on full impulse and cloaked). Warping, however, greatly increases detection rates, but this chance still isn't big.

Assuming Romulan and Klingon cloaks are equal in terms of anti-cloak strength, i think flying with a lvl 5 cloak up and running is no problem at full impulse.

Arrain Aenigma  

[Tannhauser]

Quote:
Today I went onto Activision C

No offense, but I think that was your biggest mistake right there.
   

[shadpwriath]

Romulins live by cloak...there for they don't build up on weapons and such like everyone else, they go for the cloak and armour (shields don't work cloaked).  Now to realy piss someone off: level 5 cloak, sensers off, weapons off, traveling less then 1/8 speed.......nothingwill pick you up even active pinging and probeing.

Romulins who don't like to wait for an attack point to open, make it open....metrionic beam then fire off everything recloak all before they can fire on you.  Due to lack of cycle time being cloaked the bluk of the time is not just useful it's needed.


---------

Defients against equal and smaller hauls aren't that great, but seen them against evrything but the Cube and they WILL kill it if equiped with anti-matter mines and a full load of mines.  Now defeints which have a nice surport can play a surport role with a large number of forward facing torps...think more heavy weapons in one arc then anything (excluding cube and Scimitar).

[Toasty0]

Just for the record EvilBob is a fine guy. He will play with your head if you let him, but he would never cheat as is implied here.

In fact, besides Edgewise, EvilBob was a great teacher of SFC1 and 2.

Blitz,
If you wanna truly learn the game you might want to keep fighting EvilBob. Once you have figured out how to beat him at least 10% of the time you'll consistantly beat at least 60% of your opponents without breaking a sweat.

Good luck and have fun .

Best,
Jerry  

[Aenigma]

 

Quote:
 metrionic beam then fire off everything recloak

Sorry that i have to disagree, but myotronic beams
 

 
• only stun weapons when they hit the hull, and then still not always.
   
• can't fire until you are fully decloaked, and therefore it is still not wise to decloak in someones front arc.
   

We Romulans live by waiting for a mistake, and not by making them ourselves.

Arrain Aenigma    

[Uss_Defiant]

Quote:
Just for the record EvilBob is a fine guy. He will play with your head if you let him, but he would never cheat as is implied here.

In fact, besides Edgewise, EvilBob was a great teacher of SFC1 and 2.

Blitz,
If you wanna truly learn the game you might want to keep fighting EvilBob. Once you have figured out how to beat him at least 10% of the time you'll consistantly beat at least 60% of your opponents without breaking a sweat.

Good luck and have fun .

Best,
Jerry  

Not that I?d really want to disagree with a moderator (cant you just feel the sarcasm ), I?m in complete agreement with blitz. Why should Klinks even bother to warp out and take a loss,  if they can just cloak and wait? If there was this kind of a problem with this version of the game, imaging the chaos there'll be when the patch comes out. Agreed, cloaking to get a strategic advantage is a legitimate use of the cloaking device, but purposely cloaking to AVOID combat is absolutely ludicrous. I don?t care what anyone says, but that is NOT a legitimate strategy. If you dont want to fight, play monopoly or something. Perhaps a server side patch could be implemented which allows the admin to make a time limit on a game? or something to that affect.            

[762]

A few points:

- Publicly flaming someone for something that happened in-game is bad form. Deal with it privately, either through the server's admin or the guy's fleet (if he has one).
- Cloaking and hiding to force a draw is pure cowardice. Fight or run. Hiding is no different that Alt-F4ing to save your ship. This is distinctly different from using cloak to recharge weps and gain an advantageous position (like it is supposed to be used).
-  Under the circumstances I don't blame you for Alt-F4ing one bit.
- Don't be looking for honorable play on Activision servers. Some servers have rules that prevent just this sort of thing from happening.

[Blitzkrieg]

Toasty your wrong, he wasnt playing the game in the nature it was intended. The guy wouldnt say anything to me in chat but he was quite happy to say in game, for example, Ive taken out your 2 AI, when 3 said AI blew up due to lag. He was lying to me like I was a complete n00b and as if I had no idea what was actually happening on screen.

Yes Im publicly flaming, but my argument isnt with EvilBob, my statement of the facts as I see them stand though. After gaining some sense I doubt I will ever play this guy again, hes clearly a very poor sport from his actions today. I shall probably give up my Activision accounts and move on perminantly.

For those who missed it, I think there should be some sort of mechanism put in place, to stop people doing this. That is the point of my original post, I simply highlighted someones elses actions (even though they were engraged words at the time). As for it being poor form, well I dont make the news I just tell it like it is.

Furthermore, the guy outgunned and outnumbered me twice and beet me in a fairly well fought battle by both. The final battle the odds changed and he didnt do so good. Maybe there is 2 EvilBob's Toasty as I dont see how this guy was that good, Ive seen many many better players, or maybe it was just an off day. Either way, please dont imply that I was lying about what happened, thanks.

[CannonFodder]

most of these comemts  come form fed guys
rom tactics are to get right behind you and fire all weapons at close range then claok and repete untill target is destryed klingon tactics are to cloak untill fully read and tehn engage in battle but if you donr like the cloaks there are 2 options target they cloak and if you find them kill it or become a rom or kling and use a cloak( if the diefiant could have a claok you wouldnt be moaning    

[Azrael]

Ya know, I've often wondered how it is that Fed ships seem to know where I am, even when I'm cloaked.

This puzzled me to no end.

I played Fed a few times myself, tried to fight Roms and Klinks to get a better idea of just how easy it is to spot cloaked ships.

To be fair, if they know what they're doing, it's not that easy.

I know that there is a cheat to allow you to follow a cloaked ship.  As I don't cheat, I had no need to understand how this worked.

Now that I've seen someone actually explain it in this thread, it becomes alot more obvious how a great number of Feds have been mysteriously following my cloaked ship.

Well guess what.

You're not doing yourselves any favours.  

No wonder you get bored, using "follow cloak".  Gee.  Why is it that a cloaked ship doesn't want to reappear directly in your forwards weapons arc.

Blitz, good on ya for not using the Follow Cloak cheat.

As for any Follow Cloak Fed, you're cheating scum, and dumb too, since you're making the game harder for your sad sorry selves as well as others.

(Note to non Follow Cloak Feds, you people are Paradigms and I wish that there were more people like you)

Grrrrr, got my angry head on now.

Note for Klinks and Roms.  Your cloak is alot more effective than you thought.

Azrael  

[Toasty0]

Oh well, I think he messed with your head...but then I've flew with EvilBob for over 2 years.  He is the master of smack talk.  It all part and parcel of his tactics to shake you up. Obviously he succeeded.

He is also a master tactition. Imho, he used all options avaliable to him (without exploiting a cheat or bug) to avoid a loss.

If that frustrated you to the point that you had to come here and drag his name through the dirt then maybe you should evaluate your particiaption in the game and your sportsmanship or lack of before you play again.

Cloak is an option. In the face of overwhelming firepower I think you should use the cloak to either escape of frustrate your opponent into making a mistake(s). Like I tried to suggest in my earlier post I think you should take a step back from your anger and ponder whether or not Bob played the best game available to him...then ask yourself what would have you done and would that have been a warrior's best move?

Then go back and smack talk EvilBob...shake him up...and spank him like the poor misguided warrior that he is.

Btw, smacktalk is fun. It adds a dimension to the game few know how to enjoy.

ONLY REAL WARRIORS CAN SMACKTALK

Best,
Jerry

   

[Alexander1701]

   Basic Romulan Tactics: Fly towards the enemy, shoot
Advanced Romulan tactics: Fly towards the enemy, tractor, shoot
Live for more than 5 minutes Romulan Tactics: Fly towards the enemy, Shoot, cloak till plasmas recharge, repeat

Its just how it is. And NO ONE (well, no one playing romulan long) would decloak anywhere NEAR the principle firing arc. The Cloak/Strafe is just how it works, unless you're
   A) In a fleet, or
   B) Much bigger than the target.

NOTE: Defiant = BC

Fleet tactics are better. Fleet up 1 large ship with two small ones. Have the small ones lead. At the start, the big ship cloaks, gets very close to the enemy, and decloaks in perfect positioning, thus preventing flight. And simultaneously preventing the attack of seemingly helpless romulan Cls.

In all fairness, it IS wrong to just cloak and hide. Today, I was attacked by a human Klingon BoP on Act C, and he just cloaked and hid, hopeing I would run away. Given as I was flying with a wingman, and that both of our ships were much bigger than his, he had no chance. He wasn't trying to gain position. It's too easy to gain position on uncloaked romulans, he would have if he'd tried. He was just hiding. End of story.

Alexander  

[Scorpion]

I am mostly a Klingon player (note my Klingon insignia ).  I have found that it is very hard to stay cloaked for long before being targeted and yes, I too have found that all these fed ships are constantly using the follow-cloak bug on me.  It really ticks me off that they always seem to know where I am.   It also makes me angry when people target my cloak knowing full well that it can't be repaired. Well anyway, kudos to you Blitz for not cheating.  I wish more fed players were more like you.  I agree with you that using the cloak to hide or cloak-snipe is an irritating, sometimes time-consuming and cowardly act.  However, I don't have much of a problem with people using the cloak to hide or to cloak-snipe because sometimes that is the only thing that they can do especially when going up against monstrous fed ships intent on ripping their hull to shreds (by the way, I am terrified of defiants).  I know from experience that sometimes it is hard to go toe-to-toe with fed ships and that cloak-sniping is a very sound and viable tactic to use in this situation.

P.S.: By the way Blitz I read your whole post.  I found it interesting.    

[Whiplash]

The cloak is very vulnerable to abuse by players. Its a bad idea. Its a bad tool that requires player vigilance to keep it from creating horrendously long and boring battles. I was against it when it was first hinted at in the SFC3 rumors, and I'm that much more against it now that I've seen it in action. What we need is a semi-invisible cloak between this one and the SFC2 one. Or maybe an SFC2 style cloak that was more effective and balanced. With the current plasma being effectively a direct-fire weapon, it should be easier to balance.

W.
 

[Pestalence]

Whiplash,

it sounds like you prefer a more shoot and scoot game instead of a stradegy game.. defeating cloak (without using current cheats / bug exploits) is a part of strategy.... just remember the TOS episode "Balance of Terror" to get a feel for what cloak battle is all about.... and also remember that SFC series is not a Trek sim or a Space Sim.. it is a strategy game.... always has been... just consider SFC 3 as strategy lite...

Just wait until patch is out as several anti-cloaking cheats are fixed....



 

[Alexander1701]

   One thing I would like to see is the ability to travel between sectors under cloak. That's where cloak strategy comes in. Actual battles themselves should be fairly easy to detect, with cloak 1-3 being pretty much a formality. But then that's just my opionion. I could be wrong

Alexander  

[Subspace]

what i cant stand is when your in a game & their is 1 rom & 3 feds &  all i can see are probes every whear ...

Im at 1/4 impulse with a lvl 5 cloak  & here comes 2 or 3 fedies with a bunch of probes to eat my A$$ up ...

Patch will help on probes     & just a hair off phase in & out times ... just a hair ,,,,   1on1  cloak is pretty good  in a group it can be hell  

[Whiplash]

Balance of Terror played out more like Kirk knew right where the Rom ship was. Most of the time, he had an extremely good notion of where the ship was, even when it wasn't registering on the scanners. When you consider that each hex in SFB (and thus each point of range in SFC1/2) is 10,000 miles, the old representation of cloak makes sense. There is enough gas and dust particles in space, not to mention fuel exhaust, that a ship's position can be known to within 10,000 miles. When I look at Balance of Terror, thats exactly how it seems to me.

The old way, cloak was a game of tactics. Now, its a guessing game.

Its not hard to tell where my preference comes from. I played SFB heavily for about 13 years, and still play it once in a while. I'm all about maneuver, range, and timing. Not guessing. Luck plays too great a role in this version of the cloak. There was luck the old way too, but it was not as dominant as hidden cloak causes it to be. I realize there is a strategy in hunting cloak, but its too much luck and too little skill for my taste. I know others like it, and maybe it shouldn't be done away with if most players like it. But it will forever reduce my enjoyment of this game.

W.

[Artie]

I fly fed most of the time and I love the cloak in P v P. The suspense of where the opponenent is going to pop up is great. Like a submarine battle, whoever gets detected first is at a disadvantage.
Flying a fed ship (The RIGHT way without exploiting the bugs) you have to come up with different tactics to defeat the cloak.  Crazy ivans, high energy turns, mine patterns, random warps, using the map to your advantage... you are forced to get into the mindset of the cloaker and to make it as hard as possible for them to score a crippling hit.
The cloak gives the advantage to the empires that use it correctly, because they know where you are, where you are going, what your shield/weapons status is, and you have no idea about their condition.  Information that you base your decisions on how you fight your ship are not available and you have only a three second window, (sometimes less over the internet) to get some damage in before they unleash all hell.
The cloak, new weapons, customizable ships, and (to a lesser extent) officers add a strategic element to this game that, from my perspective, makes up for the decrease in micromanagement found in sfc 2.
   

[Blitzkrieg]

Quote:
Oh well, I think he messed with your head...but then I've flew with EvilBob for over 2 years.  He is the master of smack talk.  It all part and parcel of his tactics to shake you up. Obviously he succeeded.

He is also a master tactition. Imho, he used all options avaliable to him (without exploiting a cheat or bug) to avoid a loss.

If that frustrated you to the point that you had to come here and drag his name through the dirt then maybe you should evaluate your particiaption in the game and your sportsmanship or lack of before you play again.

Cloak is an option. In the face of overwhelming firepower I think you should use the cloak to either escape of frustrate your opponent into making a mistake(s). Like I tried to suggest in my earlier post I think you should take a step back from your anger and ponder whether or not Bob played the best game available to him...then ask yourself what would have you done and would that have been a warrior's best move?

Then go back and smack talk EvilBob...shake him up...and spank him like the poor misguided warrior that he is.

Btw, smacktalk is fun. It adds a dimension to the game few know how to enjoy.

ONLY REAL WARRIORS CAN SMACKTALK

Best,
Jerry

   

  What? How hard is it for you to understand, he refused to engage as he couldnt win due to the original engagement, I couldnt find him therefore we were going to draw. I for one dont want a sitting contest. If thats what you want, fine, I dont hence the post. He said he was leaving to go get a Negh'var, I was quite happy to meet him back there again and duke it out.

To be honset Ive been more than fair, Ive stated the facts as they are, Ive said I thought how he played was disgusting and unfair. Sure it may be within the realm of this game, but he did what he did and you obviously feel its bad enough to try and defend him. Well keep on trying to defend him, it just wont work, ill still be here in a month saying the same thing.

As for talking smack or trash talking whatever, if he can say whatever he wants mr moderator then surely I can say what I want no? Smack talk is all good in your oppinion so I can talk smack here then yes? No that probably wont be ok, some official reason will be given blah blah.

Ive found quite a few good players playing this game, great people who are fun to play aganist. This guy I played clearly wasnt one of them, you fail to understand the simple fact that he wouldnt fight. If you dont want to fight you should leave.

As for me, my repuation whatever that is, I hope that you can go onto a few servers and some people will know my name and know Im a good honest player. For example :-

Human Borg DN's causing havuk on Activision B. I decide they need to be scared off so teamed up with a Fed human DN. All 3 DN's entered the battle and the Fed guy is taking a pounding, I manage to cause the Borg some serious internals and he runs. He was a good player (could tell from the wise loudout) but wasnt able to take us both (go figure) So I let the guy go, then its just me and this Fed DN left, hes stairing down the barrel of my fully kitted out Negh'var and I notice how poorly equiped this guy is. Basicaly a brand new Sov so I ask if he wants to fight he says no but he needs to get a few wins as his ship is underpowered.

Considering It was me who asked for us to team up, I said to him thanks for his help then I left the sector giving him the PP. Before the match started we agreed that after the Borg had been defeated we would go 1 on 1 to see who the winner was, as I already knew the outcome I saw little point in beeting on this fairly defencless ship.

Take this little event as you will, simply put well... I dont think I need to say anymore. I dont mind losing when someone has outplayed me, but this guy didnt out play me. How many times will I have to say, the guy stopped fighting and hid with no intention of trying to defeat me. This sort of play is totaly unfair in my oppinion, if you consider it to be fair Toasty then I wouldnt play you either, I refuse to sit there and wait for the game to end because someone will not either fight (eventualy, sure vie for position etc) or leave. Cloak wasnt ment to be abused like this, thats why Im asking for a fix.

If at the end of it public oppinion is that sure EvilBob did exactly the right thing, ill go and do it myself. Guess what I can have a level 5 cloak and sit at the edge of the sector for ages 2 After the patch Ill probably be able to win every game and never fire a single shot (unless I just happen to face a cloaking race aswell).  

****Edit****

After comming back from my lecture, changing the colour of my text I have somthing further to add to this post. This guy being sevearly outgunned is a joke. He had a fully kitted out Fek'lhr whilest I had a well armed defiant (one with standard shielding and level 1 armour lol), I even set my AI to target his AI not go after him.

[Toasty0]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know this was a tribunal of public opinion. If that's what your post is about then I withdrawl my previous assumptions about you. They were set way too high.

 I think you shouldn't play against EvilBob anymore. It's an honor you don't deserve.

Jerry
:::Toasty0 climbs into his asbestos fighting suit:::

   

[Blitzkrieg]

Its not a tribunal on public oppinion, Im petitioning Taldren to add a feature to the game, that stops players from avoiding combat by cloaking and hiding on map.

Also as a place where expert players of this game come to post and discuss, if at the end they are agreed that my point of view is totaly wrong then I will have to accept that and choose to play accordingly. If this wasnt the case I woudlnt choose to post my irate oppinion on a public forum I would have done it in private.

Toasty you have said that what he did was actually a good tactic in your oppinion (Im assuming thats what you implied, could be wrong), thats fair enough. I have stated I wont play you if you consider this a valid stratagy, maybe I seem petty by saying this but Its not the case. I simply dont want to have to wait around in game for a fight to end, I have to wait long enough for it to start. What is it, 45 seconds after clicking attack you have to wait to see if they auto forfit or not. Further on top of that you have to wait for the computers to connect to each other, then you have to wait for the game to load which Ill be honest isnt that bad but 'eh' It can be annoying sometimes.

Honestly I was of the oppinion that no one in the right mind would dissagree with me, how could they I thought, its castiron for sure? Well I guess I must be acting unreasonable in some peopls eyes, but what are you supposed to do if this happens to you? Keep taking it? Complain to admin, what admin?

Your right Toasty I dont deserver to play this guy, no one does. I dont care about him anymore I stated this, I only want this feature added to the game. Ill continue to re-make my point if required though if needed.

[Subspace]

its no worse than having a small ship warp every whear when he has no hull left ...  Forever people will do this , just warp out or forfit ....      

Romulans are every whear
Even with your wifes !!!  

[Aenigma]

 

Quote:
 its no worse than having a small ship warp every whear when he has no hull left ... Forever people will do this , just warp out or forfit ....  

That's another excuse for just blowing them to dust without mercy.

.........If you get them

Aenigma  

[Azrael]

Blitz,

You've already let Player X run you down and cause you bother.

Why build this tribute to his (questionably) tactical and definate psychological victory over you.

Toasty.  Good for you for sticking up for your mate.  If Player X is known to you as a good player, then fair play, but as a Taldren Moderator, I do not expect you to talk down to players like Blitz.  It's immature and out of place for a Moderator to be acting in this fashion.

As a Moderator, people look up to you and respect what you have to say, so be more responsible in your posts.

Who am I to tell you this?  Nobody special.  You have a think about what I've said and decide for yourself if you want to take it on board.

If one thing is clear from all the posts on this thread, it's that Cloaking in the hope that your enemy will give up and disengage on you is for loser cheaters who you shouldn't waste your time with.

If that's what he was doing, then he's a loser cheater.  If it's not, then he's a master strategist.

Move on.  If you could turn back time, you could do something about this.  

You can't.

Don't waste your time with him, and if you get the chance, teach him a lesson.

Toasty, I think you guys have made a brilliant game.  Thanks for that.  

Azrael  

[Blitzkrieg]

Well in my search for a soloution to this problem I decided a moderated server was required. I went into GFL where I clattered from sector to sector and eventualy p'd off a Borg cube who took out 90% of my Saber in one go, he then asked for a reason to let me live. After convincing him I was just a rubbish newbie (wasnt hard, after all its sorta true) he told me to go to GFL and consider joining, which I applied to do.

So maybe this is the soloution, stay away from those unmoderated servers. I didnt want to be run off but I guess I ran myself off in the end, hope they let me in the GFL and teach me a few tricks and maybe I will eventualy be in an environment best suited to me (padded room anyone?).

I still think they should stop people doing it though, Taldren next patch you will be bombarded by emails from me demanding this feature! Im letting you off till then  

[Blitzkrieg]

Hail: all nice people who don?t to get into an argument or get sworn at because I?m that p***ed off! Please kindly avert your eyes

Today I went onto Activision C to see the Borg had one it, well done but did anyone have a doubt with 2 Borg cubes on the lose? Should really watch out for those Borg, they are more sneaky than some Romulans

Anyway, I went about getting my Defiant back as this was my goal for playing on this server. I wanted to see how much damage could be done with this light ship; eventually after taking out some heavy AI I managed to find someone wiling to fight me.

<Enter EvilBob>

Now the thing is with Klingons is that they are not as brave and warrior like as some would pretend, like the TV show this isn?t. Evilbob had himself a K?tinga plus Vor?cha and Fek?lhr AI backup, whilst myself I was in a Norway and had a Norway plus Intrepid AI backup, fairly even match I think not. Anyway I asked him not to attack, explaining that I thought with all this AI we would never get a good game.

He agreed and moved on his way, coming back a few minutes with a Fek?lhr as his ship with the same AI and in tow. I was at the time refitting and didn?t see him approach or attack. I asked him why he had done this he didn?t respond till we got in game.

He said he never said what I just said he said ? anyway I said my mistake good luck he said this back. All nice you may think, yes? Well we had a good fight but I was clearly outmatched in terms of firepower, 3 CA?s against 3 CL?s can be a bit of a task. So leaving politely after nearly taking out the Fek?lhr we went our separate ways.

It didn?t bother me that much, I soon got a few more PP, finally getting myself into that Defiant I always wanted (dreamy eyed). I also got myself a few more AI, Excelsior and Intrepid I do believe. ?Yes? I think, there is EvilBob I can get him this time (he got himself a Negh?var wing by this point).

Wishing him good luck once more we start fighting only to find that the lag is our greatest enemy. It got so bad that at one point, the Excelsior, Intrepid and Vor?cha blew up all at the same time! This left me a fairly fresh Defiant against a human Fek?lhr and a Negh?var AI. I?m not giving up though, this time we are both leaving here with no AI.

I have to be honest, with great skill and determination I took out the Negh?var and cause him some damage to, but by the time the Negh?var blew, I was a goner and had to run. He told me I was a coward etc, I still said good game and left, feeling quite happy with myself.

Once in chat he changed his tune, he said he was lucky enough to get himself a new Negh?var wing again, I said I?m off for dinner soon. This was as travelling to the nearest dock as this is normally where I leave a ship before logging off. What did I find, EvilBob attacking in the same place against 2 unknown Fed AI with his Negh?var as backup. I couldn?t help myself so jumped into the fray at the last minute. I think it was a Nebula and a Norway I had jumped in to save. I apologised for jumping in as I had just said I was leaving, wishing him good luck again he says now the tables have turned and I outnumber him.

Thinking this guy sounds a bit strange I figure I should just get on with things and take out his AI again, and then he would be mine! Both my AI start being on the Negh?var and would have beaten it alone, he does his best to help but I?m doing him so much damage in my now improved Defiant. So much was this an but kicking that after a few minutes he cloaks then warps out. I say good game and he starts talking to me about how he?s going to get himself another Negh?var and come back to get me. I tell him I look forward to the challenge.

I then join my AI wings in assaulting this Negh?var not convinced he?s left and not to my surprise he de-cloaks and try?s a sneak attack. ?Not going to happen? I think, HET then wallop I get him real good his hull is taking a beating plus lights are going out all over this ship. He then somehow manages to get some damage past my shields, I think he was hosting and my shields must have appeared down to him. This process repeated, until the AI DN was a goner.

I then said good game once more, he didn?t leave. He said he had plenty of beer with him, which indicated to me that this was going to be a problem. I then do my best to search the area for him no avail. Eventually I get sick of this and explain that he should either fight or leave and if he doesn?t leave then the game will end in a draw. He kindly explains he would rather a draw then a defeat.

This really angered me; I thought for god?s sake we are going to have to wait 4 or 5 minutes just to draw? Either way I wasn?t going anywhere so I kept searching the sector for him. I would now and then wait for him, to see if he would attack. To my disgust he does, missing with every shot I HET and manage to get a shot in on him as he warps out and re-cloaks. This process repeats and I begin to get so very mad he begins de-cloaking from great range and firing at me now instead, its coming up to 25-30 minutes for the game now as well!

I start saying he?s too much of a coward to be a Klingon and he jokes back saying that?s not much coming from me. I then go on to say this is pathetic and he is pathetic for doing something so lame. Finally I lose my temper and start swearing at him, he then said he was only doing this to get me angry.

This then made me think another 15 minutes with this guy for a draw wasn?t worth, I said fine I?ll quite and Alt+F4?d. My only hope was that he got suck in game, and would need to reset his account before he could continue playing here. I will, when I have calmed down, go back to this server to harass this guy only. I don?t care anymore about AMML X4 ships are people who Alt+F4 (yes I know some people will think I was wrong to do it but eh), I will be bumping this topic to the top constantly for months on end; you will not see the end of it until it is sorted out. Do you understand me you will not keep me quiet, Taldren you must do something about the cloak to stop people doing this. I know some people rely on it a great deal but to remain cloaked for many minutes then de-cloak fire re-cloak from distance is disgusting.

Personally I think the cloak is poor right now due to bugs, but its not buggy enough that I could detect this guy now is it? I?m sorry but YOU HAVE TO SORT THIS OUT, PLEASE.

Regards, an extremely irate and angry,

Tom

P.S. Thanks to anyone who took the time to read this I know it?s a bit long.

P.P.S. I dont know if I made myself clear, but for 10 minutes or so this guy made every effort not to have to fight me, please do not come back telling me its his right to do this as this game isnt called "sit here in the freezing bloody cold, tired, with a need for coffee and WC relief while some dopey twit pi**es around"!  

[MrX]

Have you considered using a level 5 computer? It has an anti-cloak pinger e.g. radar.  

[Blitzkrieg]

Yes I know lol Im not a complete new player   Dosnt take away from the fact that its only going to get worse  with the patch

[StarTrekcaptain]

Just a thought if that happens again.  If people who claok like that really piss you off, cos they do me, after a match has begun to exced about 15 minutes i use the old cloak bug in the unpatched game.  Bearing in mind that this is the ONLY time i use it, i don't cheat but sometimes these guys REALLY piss me off.  For those of you who don't know, if you have engeged the follow target button from the helms control, you can sucessfully continue following him while he is cloaked, IF ou engaged the button before he cloaked and do not move your ship any where else.  So then when you getting pissed of with them, you can fire off a probe, and detect him them fire away.

I know this is cheating but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

:-)

[Azrael]

Blitz,

You surprise me.  It can be a really frustrating thing to have someone "jerk you around" online, but to come into forums saying "Player X is a Stoopidhead" is poor form.

Even if Player X is a Stoopidhead.

An important thing to remember is, that if you go into a battle and give your enemy the kind of fight he's looking for, he's already got the advantage.

The Defiant is a nippy ship that can pack a whallop.  Whether intentionally or not, as  Klingon, he was using very sound tactics.

Once your crew improves and you can get a decent range, going "toe to toe" with the Feds is for the impatient or overconfident.

As a Klingon, I will use my cloak to maximum adantage.  I don't want your ship anywhere near mine.  I will acheive maximum range, decloak, shoot, then cloak again and reposition.

Unfortunately, it's a tactic that most Fed players seem to find frustrating, usually because the battle is not going the "way" they wanted.

They usually make a point of stating that even though they "have not been defeated" they are leaving anyway because they're bored.

Pretty dumb excuse, since they are leaving because they are losing.

Now let me point out that I'm definately not trying to "peg" you as one of those types of players.

Secondly, to cloak about, just for the sake of "hiding", hoping your enemy will disengage so you can have the victory is poor play.  It's a tactic invented by the Federation.  You may remember a post about it a while back, about fed players in smaller ships, who used to warp about the map, hoping their enemy would get bored and disengage.

Unfortunately, if Player X was being that kind of Pillock, you allowed him to gain a psychological victory over you as well as a (questionably) tactical one.

You have a wealth of advantages open to you as a Fed player.  It's generally recognised that "cloaked" ships are too easy to detect.  

Fit a computer V, flip your scanners on, and use those probes.

Ultimately, if someone's being an "arse" online, why waste your time with them.  Warp out and enjoy yourself with players who came to play.

This is going to feel kind of horrible for you, but if Player X visits the Forum, he's going to think that he's twice as clever as he thought before, since he's driven you to making this post.

Never argue with an idiot.  They always drag you down to their level.

It's the same thing with playing them.

Hope you cool off soon.  You've lots of posts on the Forums, and I read them all with interest.

Azrael  

[Aenigma]

You don't want to see me fly Romulan ships then. Still a bit of unklingonlike action.

Should you run into a Romulan, keep in mind that we don't win shoot-outs, and that we will have to be patient for you to make a mistake. This can be an extremely prolonged battle, but if you don't want to fight it, just leave.

Players who abuse the cloak to make the game a draw are dishonourable cowards.

Aenigma  

[Blitzkrieg]

No I understand perfectly, I play both Klingon and Romulan aswell. Specificaly I have a Klingon DN on activision B which I will requently cloak when required. Also I understand that Romulans are heavily outgunned against pretty much everyone except the Ferrengi   So yes cloak, snipe, cloak and snipe again, all good fun, ill find you eventualy or not as the case may be

The thing was he said he couldnt repair any more, and he was doing this just to annoy me to avoid fighting me. What I suspect happened there was his cloak was damaged in the fire fight and he made the mistake of trying to repair it, maybe he had had one too many beers? He had tried to snipe me from afar, it didnt work, his ship was taking more damage with each attempt. Then he stopped, he just wouldnt continue, I dont know how the game didnt end. He just wouldnt fight me and was going for the draw, I shouldnt have to fit a level 5 computer because my opponant wants to sit there in the corner of the map preying I dont find him.

Whats more is I didnt have 3,000pp to spare to do this, should everyone have to do this? Maybe the game needs some ballancing here eh?

He actually did win yes, he won the engagment and he got me mad, making him the victor. However I will get him back, I refuse to give up.

[Subspace]

I will cloak & snipe ,,, but in GSA if im going to die ,,, & you can tell ;I will fight it out ...  but in the D3 if my romulan is going to lose I will  just leave the sector bite my lip & go damit damit & well some other things, but this is a public forum ...

Some people just dont want to admit when their beat !!!!! &  Some people just try & be an ass  

[Aenigma]

The latest Tal Shiar reports confirm that most Klingons are quite light on cloak, so lvl 5 or even lvl 4 computers are useful against them. Be advised that using a lvl 5 computer against a lvl 5 cloak is usually quite pointless. See my cloak tests at  SghnDubh's Battleclinic, when it comes online again (if you see my signature piccie displayed, it is online again). Bear in mind that Fed computers are the same as Klingon ones when it comes to detection.

Arrain Aenigma

PS SghnDubh, i hope your wrist heals quickly.  

[korus]

  I'm sorry you had a bad experience on the D 3, but there are some jerks on it(I'm not naming names )  that will do their best to spoil your online fun.  As a Rom currently I do adopt the cloak hit run cycle....  Most Feds complain that's cheating and want a drag out fight... Rom ships aren't built for knockout battles... Unless Plasma becomes fixed in the patch...  Anyway don't let one apple spoil your fun.  If you really want to tick him off fight him in a nebula... cloak is useless there... Hope to see you on the D3!

Korus  

[Corbomite]

I find this whole thing funny. People screamed and screamed about getting a "real" cloak and now when they get it all we hear is screaming and more screaming about the "real" cloak. If they had implemented it like it was in SFB (oh no I said the unholy words!) you would have your real cloak, but none of these problems. Oh well.

[NBK Dekan]

Quote:
Blitz,
As a Klingon, I will use my cloak to maximum adantage.  I don't want your ship anywhere near mine.  I will acheive maximum range, decloak, shoot, then cloak again and reposition.

Azrael    

This is a good tactic, but the problem is that you have to keep your speed at 1/4 impulse to have maximum cloak, least chance of being detected.  At this slow speed, it is difficult to impossible to get into good position behind and to the side arc of your opponent because they are probably going too much faster, and you can't gain on them without giving your cloak away.

[Aenigma]

 

Quote:
 

Quote:


Blitz,
As a Klingon, I will use my cloak to maximum advantage. I don't want your ship anywhere near mine. I will achieve maximum range, decloak, shoot, then cloak again and reposition.

Azrael

This is a good tactic, but the problem is that you have to keep your speed at 1/4 impulse to have maximum cloak, least chance of being detected. At this slow speed, it is difficult to impossible to get into good position behind and to the side arc of your opponent because they are probably going too much faster, and you can't gain on them without giving your cloak away.

I always wondered how people actually came up with this 1/4 impulse statistic. I've heard rumors about this being mentioned in a single player mission, which I haven't played yet, but honestly i don't believe this is true. A Romulan lvl 5 cloak is quite failproof at full impulse, actually it is perfect cloak (i've never been detected by feds or klingons when on full impulse and cloaked). Warping, however, greatly increases detection rates, but this chance still isn't big.

Assuming Romulan and Klingon cloaks are equal in terms of anti-cloak strength, i think flying with a lvl 5 cloak up and running is no problem at full impulse.

Arrain Aenigma  

[Tannhauser]

Quote:
Today I went onto Activision C

No offense, but I think that was your biggest mistake right there.
   

[shadpwriath]

Romulins live by cloak...there for they don't build up on weapons and such like everyone else, they go for the cloak and armour (shields don't work cloaked).  Now to realy piss someone off: level 5 cloak, sensers off, weapons off, traveling less then 1/8 speed.......nothingwill pick you up even active pinging and probeing.

Romulins who don't like to wait for an attack point to open, make it open....metrionic beam then fire off everything recloak all before they can fire on you.  Due to lack of cycle time being cloaked the bluk of the time is not just useful it's needed.


---------

Defients against equal and smaller hauls aren't that great, but seen them against evrything but the Cube and they WILL kill it if equiped with anti-matter mines and a full load of mines.  Now defeints which have a nice surport can play a surport role with a large number of forward facing torps...think more heavy weapons in one arc then anything (excluding cube and Scimitar).

[Toasty0]

Just for the record EvilBob is a fine guy. He will play with your head if you let him, but he would never cheat as is implied here.

In fact, besides Edgewise, EvilBob was a great teacher of SFC1 and 2.

Blitz,
If you wanna truly learn the game you might want to keep fighting EvilBob. Once you have figured out how to beat him at least 10% of the time you'll consistantly beat at least 60% of your opponents without breaking a sweat.

Good luck and have fun .

Best,
Jerry  

[Aenigma]

 

Quote:
 metrionic beam then fire off everything recloak

Sorry that i have to disagree, but myotronic beams
 

 
• only stun weapons when they hit the hull, and then still not always.
   
• can't fire until you are fully decloaked, and therefore it is still not wise to decloak in someones front arc.
   

We Romulans live by waiting for a mistake, and not by making them ourselves.

Arrain Aenigma    

[Uss_Defiant]

Quote:
Just for the record EvilBob is a fine guy. He will play with your head if you let him, but he would never cheat as is implied here.

In fact, besides Edgewise, EvilBob was a great teacher of SFC1 and 2.

Blitz,
If you wanna truly learn the game you might want to keep fighting EvilBob. Once you have figured out how to beat him at least 10% of the time you'll consistantly beat at least 60% of your opponents without breaking a sweat.

Good luck and have fun .

Best,
Jerry  

Not that I?d really want to disagree with a moderator (cant you just feel the sarcasm ), I?m in complete agreement with blitz. Why should Klinks even bother to warp out and take a loss,  if they can just cloak and wait? If there was this kind of a problem with this version of the game, imaging the chaos there'll be when the patch comes out. Agreed, cloaking to get a strategic advantage is a legitimate use of the cloaking device, but purposely cloaking to AVOID combat is absolutely ludicrous. I don?t care what anyone says, but that is NOT a legitimate strategy. If you dont want to fight, play monopoly or something. Perhaps a server side patch could be implemented which allows the admin to make a time limit on a game? or something to that affect.            

[762]

A few points:

- Publicly flaming someone for something that happened in-game is bad form. Deal with it privately, either through the server's admin or the guy's fleet (if he has one).
- Cloaking and hiding to force a draw is pure cowardice. Fight or run. Hiding is no different that Alt-F4ing to save your ship. This is distinctly different from using cloak to recharge weps and gain an advantageous position (like it is supposed to be used).
-  Under the circumstances I don't blame you for Alt-F4ing one bit.
- Don't be looking for honorable play on Activision servers. Some servers have rules that prevent just this sort of thing from happening.

[Blitzkrieg]

Toasty your wrong, he wasnt playing the game in the nature it was intended. The guy wouldnt say anything to me in chat but he was quite happy to say in game, for example, Ive taken out your 2 AI, when 3 said AI blew up due to lag. He was lying to me like I was a complete n00b and as if I had no idea what was actually happening on screen.

Yes Im publicly flaming, but my argument isnt with EvilBob, my statement of the facts as I see them stand though. After gaining some sense I doubt I will ever play this guy again, hes clearly a very poor sport from his actions today. I shall probably give up my Activision accounts and move on perminantly.

For those who missed it, I think there should be some sort of mechanism put in place, to stop people doing this. That is the point of my original post, I simply highlighted someones elses actions (even though they were engraged words at the time). As for it being poor form, well I dont make the news I just tell it like it is.

Furthermore, the guy outgunned and outnumbered me twice and beet me in a fairly well fought battle by both. The final battle the odds changed and he didnt do so good. Maybe there is 2 EvilBob's Toasty as I dont see how this guy was that good, Ive seen many many better players, or maybe it was just an off day. Either way, please dont imply that I was lying about what happened, thanks.

[CannonFodder]

most of these comemts  come form fed guys
rom tactics are to get right behind you and fire all weapons at close range then claok and repete untill target is destryed klingon tactics are to cloak untill fully read and tehn engage in battle but if you donr like the cloaks there are 2 options target they cloak and if you find them kill it or become a rom or kling and use a cloak( if the diefiant could have a claok you wouldnt be moaning    

[Azrael]

Ya know, I've often wondered how it is that Fed ships seem to know where I am, even when I'm cloaked.

This puzzled me to no end.

I played Fed a few times myself, tried to fight Roms and Klinks to get a better idea of just how easy it is to spot cloaked ships.

To be fair, if they know what they're doing, it's not that easy.

I know that there is a cheat to allow you to follow a cloaked ship.  As I don't cheat, I had no need to understand how this worked.

Now that I've seen someone actually explain it in this thread, it becomes alot more obvious how a great number of Feds have been mysteriously following my cloaked ship.

Well guess what.

You're not doing yourselves any favours.  

No wonder you get bored, using "follow cloak".  Gee.  Why is it that a cloaked ship doesn't want to reappear directly in your forwards weapons arc.

Blitz, good on ya for not using the Follow Cloak cheat.

As for any Follow Cloak Fed, you're cheating scum, and dumb too, since you're making the game harder for your sad sorry selves as well as others.

(Note to non Follow Cloak Feds, you people are Paradigms and I wish that there were more people like you)

Grrrrr, got my angry head on now.

Note for Klinks and Roms.  Your cloak is alot more effective than you thought.

Azrael  

[Toasty0]

Oh well, I think he messed with your head...but then I've flew with EvilBob for over 2 years.  He is the master of smack talk.  It all part and parcel of his tactics to shake you up. Obviously he succeeded.

He is also a master tactition. Imho, he used all options avaliable to him (without exploiting a cheat or bug) to avoid a loss.

If that frustrated you to the point that you had to come here and drag his name through the dirt then maybe you should evaluate your particiaption in the game and your sportsmanship or lack of before you play again.

Cloak is an option. In the face of overwhelming firepower I think you should use the cloak to either escape of frustrate your opponent into making a mistake(s). Like I tried to suggest in my earlier post I think you should take a step back from your anger and ponder whether or not Bob played the best game available to him...then ask yourself what would have you done and would that have been a warrior's best move?

Then go back and smack talk EvilBob...shake him up...and spank him like the poor misguided warrior that he is.

Btw, smacktalk is fun. It adds a dimension to the game few know how to enjoy.

ONLY REAL WARRIORS CAN SMACKTALK

Best,
Jerry

   

[Alexander1701]

   Basic Romulan Tactics: Fly towards the enemy, shoot
Advanced Romulan tactics: Fly towards the enemy, tractor, shoot
Live for more than 5 minutes Romulan Tactics: Fly towards the enemy, Shoot, cloak till plasmas recharge, repeat

Its just how it is. And NO ONE (well, no one playing romulan long) would decloak anywhere NEAR the principle firing arc. The Cloak/Strafe is just how it works, unless you're
   A) In a fleet, or
   B) Much bigger than the target.

NOTE: Defiant = BC

Fleet tactics are better. Fleet up 1 large ship with two small ones. Have the small ones lead. At the start, the big ship cloaks, gets very close to the enemy, and decloaks in perfect positioning, thus preventing flight. And simultaneously preventing the attack of seemingly helpless romulan Cls.

In all fairness, it IS wrong to just cloak and hide. Today, I was attacked by a human Klingon BoP on Act C, and he just cloaked and hid, hopeing I would run away. Given as I was flying with a wingman, and that both of our ships were much bigger than his, he had no chance. He wasn't trying to gain position. It's too easy to gain position on uncloaked romulans, he would have if he'd tried. He was just hiding. End of story.

Alexander  

[Scorpion]

I am mostly a Klingon player (note my Klingon insignia ).  I have found that it is very hard to stay cloaked for long before being targeted and yes, I too have found that all these fed ships are constantly using the follow-cloak bug on me.  It really ticks me off that they always seem to know where I am.   It also makes me angry when people target my cloak knowing full well that it can't be repaired. Well anyway, kudos to you Blitz for not cheating.  I wish more fed players were more like you.  I agree with you that using the cloak to hide or cloak-snipe is an irritating, sometimes time-consuming and cowardly act.  However, I don't have much of a problem with people using the cloak to hide or to cloak-snipe because sometimes that is the only thing that they can do especially when going up against monstrous fed ships intent on ripping their hull to shreds (by the way, I am terrified of defiants).  I know from experience that sometimes it is hard to go toe-to-toe with fed ships and that cloak-sniping is a very sound and viable tactic to use in this situation.

P.S.: By the way Blitz I read your whole post.  I found it interesting.    

[Whiplash]

The cloak is very vulnerable to abuse by players. Its a bad idea. Its a bad tool that requires player vigilance to keep it from creating horrendously long and boring battles. I was against it when it was first hinted at in the SFC3 rumors, and I'm that much more against it now that I've seen it in action. What we need is a semi-invisible cloak between this one and the SFC2 one. Or maybe an SFC2 style cloak that was more effective and balanced. With the current plasma being effectively a direct-fire weapon, it should be easier to balance.

W.
 

[Pestalence]

Whiplash,

it sounds like you prefer a more shoot and scoot game instead of a stradegy game.. defeating cloak (without using current cheats / bug exploits) is a part of strategy.... just remember the TOS episode "Balance of Terror" to get a feel for what cloak battle is all about.... and also remember that SFC series is not a Trek sim or a Space Sim.. it is a strategy game.... always has been... just consider SFC 3 as strategy lite...

Just wait until patch is out as several anti-cloaking cheats are fixed....



 

[Alexander1701]

   One thing I would like to see is the ability to travel between sectors under cloak. That's where cloak strategy comes in. Actual battles themselves should be fairly easy to detect, with cloak 1-3 being pretty much a formality. But then that's just my opionion. I could be wrong

Alexander  

[Subspace]

what i cant stand is when your in a game & their is 1 rom & 3 feds &  all i can see are probes every whear ...

Im at 1/4 impulse with a lvl 5 cloak  & here comes 2 or 3 fedies with a bunch of probes to eat my A$$ up ...

Patch will help on probes     & just a hair off phase in & out times ... just a hair ,,,,   1on1  cloak is pretty good  in a group it can be hell  

[Whiplash]

Balance of Terror played out more like Kirk knew right where the Rom ship was. Most of the time, he had an extremely good notion of where the ship was, even when it wasn't registering on the scanners. When you consider that each hex in SFB (and thus each point of range in SFC1/2) is 10,000 miles, the old representation of cloak makes sense. There is enough gas and dust particles in space, not to mention fuel exhaust, that a ship's position can be known to within 10,000 miles. When I look at Balance of Terror, thats exactly how it seems to me.

The old way, cloak was a game of tactics. Now, its a guessing game.

Its not hard to tell where my preference comes from. I played SFB heavily for about 13 years, and still play it once in a while. I'm all about maneuver, range, and timing. Not guessing. Luck plays too great a role in this version of the cloak. There was luck the old way too, but it was not as dominant as hidden cloak causes it to be. I realize there is a strategy in hunting cloak, but its too much luck and too little skill for my taste. I know others like it, and maybe it shouldn't be done away with if most players like it. But it will forever reduce my enjoyment of this game.

W.

[Artie]

I fly fed most of the time and I love the cloak in P v P. The suspense of where the opponenent is going to pop up is great. Like a submarine battle, whoever gets detected first is at a disadvantage.
Flying a fed ship (The RIGHT way without exploiting the bugs) you have to come up with different tactics to defeat the cloak.  Crazy ivans, high energy turns, mine patterns, random warps, using the map to your advantage... you are forced to get into the mindset of the cloaker and to make it as hard as possible for them to score a crippling hit.
The cloak gives the advantage to the empires that use it correctly, because they know where you are, where you are going, what your shield/weapons status is, and you have no idea about their condition.  Information that you base your decisions on how you fight your ship are not available and you have only a three second window, (sometimes less over the internet) to get some damage in before they unleash all hell.
The cloak, new weapons, customizable ships, and (to a lesser extent) officers add a strategic element to this game that, from my perspective, makes up for the decrease in micromanagement found in sfc 2.
   

[Blitzkrieg]

Quote:
Oh well, I think he messed with your head...but then I've flew with EvilBob for over 2 years.  He is the master of smack talk.  It all part and parcel of his tactics to shake you up. Obviously he succeeded.

He is also a master tactition. Imho, he used all options avaliable to him (without exploiting a cheat or bug) to avoid a loss.

If that frustrated you to the point that you had to come here and drag his name through the dirt then maybe you should evaluate your particiaption in the game and your sportsmanship or lack of before you play again.

Cloak is an option. In the face of overwhelming firepower I think you should use the cloak to either escape of frustrate your opponent into making a mistake(s). Like I tried to suggest in my earlier post I think you should take a step back from your anger and ponder whether or not Bob played the best game available to him...then ask yourself what would have you done and would that have been a warrior's best move?

Then go back and smack talk EvilBob...shake him up...and spank him like the poor misguided warrior that he is.

Btw, smacktalk is fun. It adds a dimension to the game few know how to enjoy.

ONLY REAL WARRIORS CAN SMACKTALK

Best,
Jerry

   

  What? How hard is it for you to understand, he refused to engage as he couldnt win due to the original engagement, I couldnt find him therefore we were going to draw. I for one dont want a sitting contest. If thats what you want, fine, I dont hence the post. He said he was leaving to go get a Negh'var, I was quite happy to meet him back there again and duke it out.

To be honset Ive been more than fair, Ive stated the facts as they are, Ive said I thought how he played was disgusting and unfair. Sure it may be within the realm of this game, but he did what he did and you obviously feel its bad enough to try and defend him. Well keep on trying to defend him, it just wont work, ill still be here in a month saying the same thing.

As for talking smack or trash talking whatever, if he can say whatever he wants mr moderator then surely I can say what I want no? Smack talk is all good in your oppinion so I can talk smack here then yes? No that probably wont be ok, some official reason will be given blah blah.

Ive found quite a few good players playing this game, great people who are fun to play aganist. This guy I played clearly wasnt one of them, you fail to understand the simple fact that he wouldnt fight. If you dont want to fight you should leave.

As for me, my repuation whatever that is, I hope that you can go onto a few servers and some people will know my name and know Im a good honest player. For example :-

Human Borg DN's causing havuk on Activision B. I decide they need to be scared off so teamed up with a Fed human DN. All 3 DN's entered the battle and the Fed guy is taking a pounding, I manage to cause the Borg some serious internals and he runs. He was a good player (could tell from the wise loudout) but wasnt able to take us both (go figure) So I let the guy go, then its just me and this Fed DN left, hes stairing down the barrel of my fully kitted out Negh'var and I notice how poorly equiped this guy is. Basicaly a brand new Sov so I ask if he wants to fight he says no but he needs to get a few wins as his ship is underpowered.

Considering It was me who asked for us to team up, I said to him thanks for his help then I left the sector giving him the PP. Before the match started we agreed that after the Borg had been defeated we would go 1 on 1 to see who the winner was, as I already knew the outcome I saw little point in beeting on this fairly defencless ship.

Take this little event as you will, simply put well... I dont think I need to say anymore. I dont mind losing when someone has outplayed me, but this guy didnt out play me. How many times will I have to say, the guy stopped fighting and hid with no intention of trying to defeat me. This sort of play is totaly unfair in my oppinion, if you consider it to be fair Toasty then I wouldnt play you either, I refuse to sit there and wait for the game to end because someone will not either fight (eventualy, sure vie for position etc) or leave. Cloak wasnt ment to be abused like this, thats why Im asking for a fix.

If at the end of it public oppinion is that sure EvilBob did exactly the right thing, ill go and do it myself. Guess what I can have a level 5 cloak and sit at the edge of the sector for ages 2 After the patch Ill probably be able to win every game and never fire a single shot (unless I just happen to face a cloaking race aswell).  

****Edit****

After comming back from my lecture, changing the colour of my text I have somthing further to add to this post. This guy being sevearly outgunned is a joke. He had a fully kitted out Fek'lhr whilest I had a well armed defiant (one with standard shielding and level 1 armour lol), I even set my AI to target his AI not go after him.

[Toasty0]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know this was a tribunal of public opinion. If that's what your post is about then I withdrawl my previous assumptions about you. They were set way too high.

 I think you shouldn't play against EvilBob anymore. It's an honor you don't deserve.

Jerry
:::Toasty0 climbs into his asbestos fighting suit:::

   

[Blitzkrieg]

Its not a tribunal on public oppinion, Im petitioning Taldren to add a feature to the game, that stops players from avoiding combat by cloaking and hiding on map.

Also as a place where expert players of this game come to post and discuss, if at the end they are agreed that my point of view is totaly wrong then I will have to accept that and choose to play accordingly. If this wasnt the case I woudlnt choose to post my irate oppinion on a public forum I would have done it in private.

Toasty you have said that what he did was actually a good tactic in your oppinion (Im assuming thats what you implied, could be wrong), thats fair enough. I have stated I wont play you if you consider this a valid stratagy, maybe I seem petty by saying this but Its not the case. I simply dont want to have to wait around in game for a fight to end, I have to wait long enough for it to start. What is it, 45 seconds after clicking attack you have to wait to see if they auto forfit or not. Further on top of that you have to wait for the computers to connect to each other, then you have to wait for the game to load which Ill be honest isnt that bad but 'eh' It can be annoying sometimes.

Honestly I was of the oppinion that no one in the right mind would dissagree with me, how could they I thought, its castiron for sure? Well I guess I must be acting unreasonable in some peopls eyes, but what are you supposed to do if this happens to you? Keep taking it? Complain to admin, what admin?

Your right Toasty I dont deserver to play this guy, no one does. I dont care about him anymore I stated this, I only want this feature added to the game. Ill continue to re-make my point if required though if needed.

[Subspace]

its no worse than having a small ship warp every whear when he has no hull left ...  Forever people will do this , just warp out or forfit ....      

Romulans are every whear
Even with your wifes !!!  

[Aenigma]

 

Quote:
 its no worse than having a small ship warp every whear when he has no hull left ... Forever people will do this , just warp out or forfit ....  

That's another excuse for just blowing them to dust without mercy.

.........If you get them

Aenigma  

[Azrael]

Blitz,

You've already let Player X run you down and cause you bother.

Why build this tribute to his (questionably) tactical and definate psychological victory over you.

Toasty.  Good for you for sticking up for your mate.  If Player X is known to you as a good player, then fair play, but as a Taldren Moderator, I do not expect you to talk down to players like Blitz.  It's immature and out of place for a Moderator to be acting in this fashion.

As a Moderator, people look up to you and respect what you have to say, so be more responsible in your posts.

Who am I to tell you this?  Nobody special.  You have a think about what I've said and decide for yourself if you want to take it on board.

If one thing is clear from all the posts on this thread, it's that Cloaking in the hope that your enemy will give up and disengage on you is for loser cheaters who you shouldn't waste your time with.

If that's what he was doing, then he's a loser cheater.  If it's not, then he's a master strategist.

Move on.  If you could turn back time, you could do something about this.  

You can't.

Don't waste your time with him, and if you get the chance, teach him a lesson.

Toasty, I think you guys have made a brilliant game.  Thanks for that.  

Azrael  

[Blitzkrieg]

Well in my search for a soloution to this problem I decided a moderated server was required. I went into GFL where I clattered from sector to sector and eventualy p'd off a Borg cube who took out 90% of my Saber in one go, he then asked for a reason to let me live. After convincing him I was just a rubbish newbie (wasnt hard, after all its sorta true) he told me to go to GFL and consider joining, which I applied to do.

So maybe this is the soloution, stay away from those unmoderated servers. I didnt want to be run off but I guess I ran myself off in the end, hope they let me in the GFL and teach me a few tricks and maybe I will eventualy be in an environment best suited to me (padded room anyone?).

I still think they should stop people doing it though, Taldren next patch you will be bombarded by emails from me demanding this feature! Im letting you off till then