Topic: Toying Around With TOS (NOW AVAILABLE 4 DL) (Read 5603 times)

I_Mudd · « **on:** September 25, 2003, 10:01:59 am »

Hey all,

Here's a few things I have been messing around with ...

Yeah, I copped to the default starter ship ... but this one's a little different.

I would like to thank Azel for the inspirational design. Hope ya approve!

I'm still working on break models and hardpoints. The brk_mods shouldn't be too hard, but hardpoint placement in Milkshape seems rough. Bone placement?!? Joints, maybe ... but on a scaled model, the joints are HUGE! lol.

Yak Atcha Later,

I_Mudd.

Atrahasis · « **Reply #1 on:** September 25, 2003, 10:18:55 am »

I like them! But you may want to consider doing a sphere UV wrap around the pod of the Columbia, because a straight planar application like that makes the texture stretch at the sides. This will involve creating a specially designed texture but the result would be worth it.

I_Mudd · « **Reply #2 on:** September 25, 2003, 10:26:17 am »

That was my biggest problem with that model. I tried to minimize that by the lack of features on the sides of the sphere.
I didn't realize Milkshape had that function ... I'll have to give it whirl.

Thanks for the advice!

I_Mudd.

Azel · « **Reply #3 on:** September 25, 2003, 10:43:07 am »

Wow sweet ships man!!!

I am honoured aswell
the only 2 things about the Azel is on the registry you are missing a "6"(NX-666)
and the cattamarrang hull is too short...if you can make it longer by about 20% it would look perfect

Thanks again man

Very impressed
and can't wait to DL

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #4 on:** September 25, 2003, 10:54:24 am »

Nice looking models

I want the Azel

I_Mudd · « **Reply #5 on:** September 25, 2003, 12:34:56 pm »

A quick update.

I took Azel's advice and made a few subtle, but needed changes. It does look better.

Oh, and the extra '6' isn't missing. I left it off because a 600 series NX during a TOS time period seemed rather high.

Yak Atcha Later,

I_Mudd.

Azel · « **Reply #6 on:** September 25, 2003, 12:44:31 pm »

hey where's the Extra "6" LOL

Terradyhne · « **Reply #7 on:** September 25, 2003, 12:51:05 pm »

the first model and your textures are cool but the second ship is verry strange design

Reverend · « **Reply #8 on:** September 25, 2003, 01:39:52 pm »

I, Mudd; I cannot believe what a nice job you have done on that Azel class! Very good show!

Smiley · « **Reply #9 on:** September 25, 2003, 01:57:53 pm »

Wow I_Mudd! You make TOS look so mucher cooler than I previously thought of it!

James Formo · « **Reply #10 on:** September 25, 2003, 02:02:32 pm »

Yea the Azel is nice. Milkshape does not have UVwrap. However you can improver the mapping by selecting individual vertexes and reshaping the sphere into a square in the mapping window. This is time consuming and probalbly not worth the effort.

One of the frustrations about working with milkshape is people always are telling you to do stuff without asking what software you have. Honestly though after putting ships into SFC3 I see less problems on meshes done in Milk then in max.

I_Mudd · « **Reply #11 on:** September 25, 2003, 02:17:53 pm »

Thanks, Terradyhne. Strangeness appeals to me.

Thanks Rev!

Smiley, TOS and coolness are a state of mind.

I'm still playing with the sphere texturing in Milkshape, James. You're right about no specific UV wrap, but there is a 'sphere map' feature I'm playing with. The whole idea of reshaping a sphere to a cube and back again is most unappealing, and I will not be trying that in the near future. [shudders at the thought]

I_Mudd.

Azel · « **Reply #12 on:** September 25, 2003, 02:27:34 pm »

I_Mudd...
I just realized something on the model...The imulse assmbly is where the shuttle bay is supposed to be...lol
I can understand the mistake though...the TNG version looks like an impulse assembly aswell(sovie type)
sorry for noticing now man

I_Mudd · « **Reply #13 on:** September 25, 2003, 02:34:59 pm »

hmmm ...

I kinda like the oddness of the Impulse Drive being off-center, not that it would matter in space. Perhaps in a 'TMP/TNG' refit, it was/will be changed for more aesthetic reasons. [shrugs, lol.]

Besides, it helps make it just a little different than yours, and variety is good.

That and I'm lazy.

Yak Atcha Later,

I_Mudd.

ActiveX · « **Reply #14 on:** September 25, 2003, 02:52:20 pm »

NX was used for prototype indexing all throughout Trek...

So NX-666 isn't farfetched...

NX-2000 is the Excelsior...

Fire Blade · « **Reply #15 on:** September 25, 2003, 09:04:10 pm »

Like these two a lot looking forward to DL

starforce2 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 25, 2003, 09:36:25 pm »

I think they look great as well. You should add more detail to the side of the sphere though, IMHO it does looke a bit too plain on the side. Maybe some weapon ports or doors. I dunno what type of this it is (medical, science..ect) so maybe not weapons.

As for the tos azel, where exactly is the impulse? Or is that what those blue vents are?

James Formo · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2003, 10:13:31 pm »

Quote:

I'm still playing with the sphere texturing in Milkshape, James. You're right about no specific UV wrap, but there is a 'sphere map' feature I'm playing with. The whole idea of reshaping a sphere to a cube and back again is most unappealing, and I will not be trying that in the near future. [shudders at the thought]

I_Mudd.

Where in the menu is the spere map. Reason I ask is I still have version 6.13. I suspect I need to update. I did d/l the TNG plugins, since they installed in a new folder 6.16 I think. I just copied the sfc plug in over to my original 6.13 folder. Will be interested how that sphere map works out.

The more I look at your ships the more I like

Desty_Nova · « **Reply #18 on:** September 25, 2003, 10:45:47 pm »

I don't know what it is....

but I like it!

I_Mudd · « **Reply #19 on:** September 26, 2003, 07:17:42 am »

Thanks Fireblade and Desty Nova. Soon ... just a few more bugs ta kill ...

Currently, I'm adressing the Columbia's sphere textures. I agree with Starforce2 (and everyone else) about the disturbing lack of detail to the sides of the Primary hull. I have made progress ...

I'm using version 1.6.5 of MilkShape, James. The 'sphere map' feature is located here:

It locks the texture onto the mesh like so:

I'm still poking around with this feature, so I hardly have all the answers for its applications. It does seem however, I'm on the right track.

More REAL soon ...

I_Mudd.

Atrahasis · « **Reply #20 on:** September 26, 2003, 07:41:56 am »

Yes, you are on the right track. Learning how to sphere map will increase the quality of your work because a great many objects will probably require it in your future projects. I should also let you know that once you master this, the next thing you should look at is "cylindrical mapping" which has even wider applications.

Just a tip: you should always know where your most important axis is, and what it's called (X,Y, or Z).

I_Mudd · « **Reply #21 on:** September 26, 2003, 08:11:40 am »

Thanks Atrahasis. I must admit, I'm a big fan of your work. Your models are breathing new life into TOS/SFB ( in the way I hope to ) for a 'next generation' of players and fans who might have only reguarded the vessels of this era as 'primitive tinker toy' starships.

I have some experience with 3d max and lightwave, and understand your advice, but sadly, all I have these days to work with is Milkshape, which is like going from a Porshe to a Pinto. The Sphere map feature seems limitted in MIlk. It creates a sort of weird reflection-like effect while in program. Upon exporting the mesh, however, there appears to be little difference from regular texture mapping. Maybe I'm missing something or prehaps I need to re-plan my texture mapping ...

Back to the Dillithium mines ...

I_Mudd.

Mackie · « **Reply #22 on:** September 26, 2003, 10:06:44 am »

OMFG! Upload the current version 0z and ill do some renderings

and oh by the way... B0w d0wn before the power of the milkshape biatches

Azel · « **Reply #23 on:** September 26, 2003, 05:11:47 pm »

Awesome

!!!
But ...where's my Damned "6"!!!
LOL

I_Mudd · « **Reply #25 on:** September 26, 2003, 11:27:55 pm »

I think I've taken care of the 'sphere' problem on the Columbia. See for yourself:

Hey Mackie, Thanks and check your email.

Patients, my young padawan ... All good things come to those who wait ... Azel.

It won't be long now.

I_Mudd.

InterMech · « **Reply #26 on:** September 26, 2003, 11:28:00 pm »

Milkshape sphere map is not the same as the one in Max. In milkshape, spheres will automatically sphere map in the sense you are thinking, Cylinders will automatically cylinder map. Boxes will show the full texture on each face. To map on a sphere like the Daedalus Class, you have to make the texture as if it is unwrapped onto a flat surface. Then assign the texture to the sphere. When you go into the texture point editor, you can maintain the sphere map by NOT hitting the remap button, but only scaling or moving individual points. I have found that one can apply almost the same texture application quality in Milkshape as with Max but with fewer clicks on the mouse.

starforce2 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 26, 2003, 11:47:02 pm »

It looks better.

I_Mudd · « **Reply #30 on:** September 27, 2003, 11:19:56 pm »

I think everything is close to where it's supposed to be now.

You'll probably notice that the Impulse drive isn't exactly where you requested, Azel. It just didn't look right and seemed like the engineering was all wrong for this ship. I figure the secondary hull was like any other ( just smaller) with a warp core running down through it. I t didn't make sense to reroute main power conduits back to the center of the saucer section, when it would be just as easy, if not easier, to project it towards the aft section where the nacelles are powered anyway. it made sense to me from diagrams I've seen. Asides, it rounds out and streamlines the asymetrical design some. Hope you like it.

Now, just to get the break mods and hardpoints done and both Columbia and the Azel will be ready for download.

I_Mudd.

starforce2 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 27, 2003, 11:30:57 pm »

you could put impulse under the shuttlebay to make the thrust symetrical. And I've been meaning to ask, where are the phasers? and are those torpedo tubes on the fronts of the nacelles?

ActiveX · « **Reply #32 on:** September 27, 2003, 11:46:00 pm »

Oh look, you got your 6...

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #33 on:** September 27, 2003, 11:50:58 pm »

You know, I liked the USS Azel the 1st time that I saw it. I like it more all the time. It looks like aesthetics weren't a consideration at all, when it was being designed. (Which is as it should be.) Systems were put where they would fit, where it was easiest, where it was safe, or whatever. No aerodynamics in it's design. It's a space craft

I_Mudd · « **Reply #34 on:** September 28, 2003, 12:57:37 am »

Starforce2, you made a good point. How or why would I do hardpoints for a ship with no weapons.

I_Mudd.

starforce2 · « **Reply #35 on:** September 28, 2003, 01:12:41 am »

Cool! I was thinking weapons off the core too, only supercharged beam emitters with direct shunts rather than torpedo, but whatever works. How long before these 2 get released?

Azel · « **Reply #36 on:** September 28, 2003, 09:14:26 am »

THanks man!!!
as for the weapons...I personally don't care (I think its just the foward torp tubes sticking out too much)...But the ship needs them...so its got to have em

BTW :are you planning to move the nacelles away from the ship...by lengthing the Cattermarang hull??? or just pull bach the whole nacelle with pylon further back

...so the ship has some length

Or just have a MK2 version with that upgrade
Thanks man!!!

All in all she is Great

I_Mudd · « **Reply #37 on:** September 28, 2003, 08:49:56 pm »

Okay, Hardpoints are finished on both ships, however, I have yet to produce a good break mod. Milkshape exports the break as a single item, not in three or four pieces. This may be because the program doesn't seem to want to classify groups as indivdual meshes ... not sure. The result is a very mangled starship spinning out of control. Kinda neat, at first, but not the look I was going for here.

After searching around this forum and others, it looks like Milkshape may not be able to produce the break mods.

So ...

... has anyone got a suggestion?

I_Mudd.

Mainwaring · « **Reply #38 on:** September 29, 2003, 02:08:36 am »

If it's all done and you just need the break mod done properly, I could probably take some time Tuesday or Wednesday and run it through 3DS Max and send it back to you. I'd offer to do it sooner, but I have two major class projects due Tuesday (it's the last week or term), and therefore will be very busy.

Alternately, GMax might work. it's a free version of 3DS Max that Discreet or whatever they're called these days puts out. i think it supports Max-format plugins.

I_Mudd · « **Reply #39 on:** September 29, 2003, 02:05:00 pm »

Gmax won't export the mesh in a usable format, so I'll need a way to send these files to you.

I still would like to know if there's ANY way to make a break mod without 3d max ...I expierimented with SCME ( both versions ) but apparently, it doesn't recognize the pivot points needed for a break mod. Assimview looks promising. but it, much like SFC2ED, simply baffles me as to how to manipulate anything.

Alternatively, I could do a one piece break mod, specially designed to look good ... kinda like in ST3 just after the Enterprise self destructs and is twirling toward Genesis.

I have several other projects on the back burner and would hate to become a 'pest' about getting break mods done.

I_Mudd

starforce2 · « **Reply #40 on:** September 29, 2003, 05:52:31 pm »

perhaps the best way to do this is to simply release the models as is, and just put something in the readme, then sit back and wait for the break mods to end up in your inbox.

I_Mudd · « **Reply #41 on:** September 30, 2003, 01:13:32 pm »

Perhaps your right starforce2. I just like finishing what I start, and don't like releasing something until it's right. Too much half-a$sedness going around these days.

But, without further ado, The downloads:

USS Columbia NCC-190

USS Azel NX-666

Enjoy!

I_Mudd.

Azel · « **Reply #42 on:** September 30, 2003, 01:35:07 pm »

Thank you Man!!!

Mackie · « **Reply #44 on:** September 30, 2003, 06:12:00 pm »

0z ( imudd) go get msn so we can talk, id like you to be able to add the ships into the database of the site

Steelviper33 · « **Reply #45 on:** September 30, 2003, 06:35:21 pm »

Ill take a bash at the Break Models if you want...i havent done enough around here...i can do em tomorow evening, before model UN

I_Mudd · « **Reply #46 on:** September 30, 2003, 07:44:35 pm »

Thanks Steelviper33! Whenever you get time.

Heck If anyone else wants ta take a crack at it, be my guest. I'll select the best one for the 'official' DL. Of course, that won't stop anyone who participates from putting their own version on their own system, but that's ok. I don't think the ISC will invade your hard drive over that.

Okay Mackie, I have MSN Messanger ... now what?

Email me.

I_Mudd.

starforce2 · « **Reply #47 on:** September 30, 2003, 08:59:59 pm »

you can add me to starforce2@hotmail.com Though my list is full so I can't add you back, less I find some to delete.

ActiveX · « **Reply #48 on:** September 30, 2003, 09:29:37 pm »

I have plenty to delete...

I_Mudd · « **Reply #51 on:** October 01, 2003, 02:36:04 am »

No problem, Rob.

Unfortunately, I was turned down by Paramount.

Berman's loss is your gain. lol

I_Mudd

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