Topic: OT Starforce's opinion on modelers

[James Formo]

Quote:
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But if more scratch modelers would listen up and pay attention to what people are requesting atleast 50% of the time there'd be less whiners. So many modlers do only what they want instead of what is actualy needed or wanted by the people that when even an amature quality model of some rare ship comes out, it blows you big boys off the charts. Think about it.



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That is a quote from STarforce2 at SFC3 files. Apparently us modelers are not listening to requests and are doing are own thing. What audacity we have, not being paid, but doing this as a hobby for free and were doing ships we want to do instead of the Ships SF2 needs. Also interesting comment from someone I never seen request a ship, only insist that items on it be added or changed to his liking.

In fact I have not seen a ship request in these forums for ages. So where are these people and there requests?

Oh Starforce congrats on finnaly figuring out how to spell my name.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hello James,

Well,

   starforce2 is only showing his complete and utter ignorance once again,
I always believed starforce2 was an ignorant pee-wit,
but this really "takes the cake"

Quote:


Quote:
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   But if more scratch modelers would listen up and pay attention to what people are requesting atleast 50% of the time there'd be less whiners. So many modlers do only what they want instead of what is actualy needed or wanted by the people that when even an amature quality model of some rare ship comes out, it blows you big boys off the charts. Think about it.



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That is a quote from STarforce2 at SFC3 files. Apparently us modelers are not listening to requests and are doing are own thing. What audacity we have, not being paid, but doing this as a hobby for free and were doing ships we want to do instead of the Ships SF2 needs. Also interesting comment from someone I never seen request a ship, only insist that items on it be added or changed to his liking.

In fact I have not seen a ship request in these forums for ages. So where are these people and there requests?

Oh Starforce congrats on finnaly figuring out how to spell my name.  

starforce2,
you are such a dim ignorant fool,
that I'm probably wasting my breath,
but perhaps this might penatrate even your thick skull,
that is if there is anything inside it,

starforce2,

All 3d modders do this for free,
We are not payed,
We do it for free,

Next,
it is up to the 3d modder to make what they want,
"its their baby",

If that has not pentrated your skull yet,
please go play "marbles on the Freeway",

Ahem,
"at rush-hour",

Ahem,
Please ...


GeneralWolfe
 

[DestinyCalling]

er... I thought that was kinda the point...A hobby..!!  I'm not a modeller myself but if I WAS, then I'd do something I wanted to.. If it proved popular then thats a bonus...  

Idiots like that should shut their grid... Just because they can't ship model themselves..... dick!!    

[Atrahasis]

Starforce does have a point though. It's not just listening to what people want but also having a feel for what is needed, and what is needed is often the popular ships. If all a modeler does is the one-time wonders that are his own fanciful designs, they may or may not get used, but the most popular designs are the ones that will get Dl'd the most and survive the test of time and recieve the greatest acclaim. This should be a no-brainer.  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Atrahasis,

That is your opinion,
it does not happen to be mine,

3d modders are not paid,
they do this for free,

What a 3d modder chooses is their own choice,
"its their baby",

3d modding is difficult, creative, and time consuming,
3d modders ultimatively do this out of pleasure and enjoyment,

Perhaps, Atrahasis, you would be so kind,
as to "volunteer" your entire 3d modding endeveaours to produce only what starforce2,
"eliquently" and so wisely requests,

It most certainly would keep you, Atrahasis
  "out of trouble" and
I dare say "beneviolently focused",


Agent Sloan

Quote:
Starforce does have a point though. It's not just listening to what people want but also having a feel for what is needed, and what is needed is often the popular ships. If all a modeler does is the one-time wonders that are his own fanciful designs, they may or may not get used, but the most popular designs are the ones that will survive the test of time. This should be a no-brainer.  

[ActiveX]

I figure unless the modeler is being paid, then what they do should be their own...

But if you are paid, then you follow the money...

[starforce2]

Quote:
I figure unless the modeler is being paid, then what they do should be their own...

But if you are paid, then you follow the money...  

Formo got me pissed over at sfc3 files by ranting on how his work gets 2 responses when it takes 30 hours to make, while kitbashes go make a ship in 15 minutes and get all the response. And that kitbashers hide behind the best parts. Now, just what does it matter? Kitbashing is a popular thing in the show, well, atleast ds9, thus kitbashes of canon classes are going to get more attention than fancy stuff. There will always be that fancy ship or one of the ones that's a bit unconventional that will defy all odds and get flocks of people (soulwolf, scorpion, ect). But alot of people liek canon or things based heavily on canon. His whole post basicly sounded as if he was either blamming the fans or the kitbashers for the lack of people paying attention to his mods. It's like trying to get a standing ovation for singing Eminem to a bunch of beetles fans. it's not going to work. You'll get a few and that's it. So it's logical if you want alot of attention you should find out what your audience is interested in atleast once in a while. And really, if all you do it for is the attention, well, that just sucks.  And I am not just refering to people here not doing MY requests.  So now because I challenged his logic he is going to hold this big vandetta agaist me and start a "flame starforce" campagin. Should be an interesting read, nothing good on tv tonight.

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Oh, and for the record, formo up there quoted a part of my post, didn't bother to show his:

Personnally I grow weary of kitbashers. Realize might get flamed big time for saying that. But I remember spending 50 hours on my 3rd mesh. Took that long because I was learning the software as well as meshing. Put together a quality mesh but can't really texture the best. So it gets maybe 2 responses. Often a kitbash can be thrown together in 15 minutes. Yea remapping the textures will take longer. But people always use the best textures that someone else did. Remap em and walla done, never even worked up a sweat and everyones like cool ship.

I now have a ship with over 2000 d/l's here and when I posted that ship in a forum all it got was basically flamed. A kitbasher hides behind others work. No one will flame them if they use all the best meshes and textures. Yet somehow it seems like they expect all the credits for the new design. Which is nothing more then adding 2 ships together.

Now again the last 2 files I post here only have a comment from a some whiny snot.

I myself will be doing kitbashes but I only use the stock models as I remember when I was a newbie, no body would respond to my emails asking for permission.

So I learned modeling not like most by kitbashing 1st and then making your own. I actually had modeled for 3 months before I did my 1st kitbash.

Aint I a long winded SOB

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[Atrahasis]

Just totally ignore the guy, don't respond at all to him. He's the one who called me and P81 all sorts of names over at another fourm, he's got serious attitude problems. Moreover, if he's in this for the attention as it sounds like he is, then he's attracting the wrong kind of attention by ranting like that.

K, not that's he's not entitled to rant, but he does get abusive and childish, so in my opinion just totally staying away from him is best.  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

starforce2,

No.
the source of this thread,
is you are a dick

Quote:

Quote:
I figure unless the modeler is being paid, then what they do should be their own...

But if you are paid, then you follow the money...  

Formo got me pissed over at sfc3 files by ranting on how his work gets 2 responses when it takes 30 hours to make, while kitbashes go make a ship in 15 minutes and get all the response. And that kitbashers hide behind the best parts. Now, just what does it matter? Kitbashing is a popular thing in the show, well, atleast ds9, thus kitbashes of canon classes are going to get more attention than fancy stuff. There will always be that fancy ship or one of the ones that's a bit unconventional that will defy all odds and get flocks of people (soulwolf, scorpion, ect). But alot of people liek canon or things based heavily on canon. His whole post basicly sounded as if he was either blamming the fans or the kitbashers for the lack of people paying attention to his mods. So now because I challenged his logic he is going to hold this big vandetta agaist me and start a "flame starforce" campagin. Should be an interesting read, nothing good on tv tonight.  

Agent Sloan

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Atrahasis,

You have have given a bang up accurate description
of yourself ...

You make such good 3d models
Alas,
If only you'd shut your face ....

Quote:
Just totally ignore the guy, don't respond at all to him. He's the one who called me and P81 all sorts of names over at another fourm, he's got serious attitude problems. Moreover, if he's in this for the attention as it sounds like he is, then he's attracting the wrong kind of attention by ranting like that.

K, not that's he's not entitled to rant, but he does get abusive and childish, so in my opinion just totally staying away from him is best.  

Quite.

Agent Sloan

[starforce2]

Quote:
Just totally ignore the guy, don't respond at all to him. He's the one who called me and P81 all sorts of names over at another fourm, he's got serious attitude problems. Moreover, if he's in this for the attention as it sounds like he is, then he's attracting the wrong kind of attention by ranting like that.

K, not that's he's not entitled to rant, but he does get abusive and childish, so in my opinion just totally staying away from him is best.  

Yea, I reworded a few things in my last post and included his own from sfc3 files, we'll see what people think of what he said. Otherwise I'm pretty much done with this. He's even insulting me over spelling. I've never seen someone so anal over spelling mistakes.  

[ActiveX]

GW...have you ever thought to remove the fricking forest from your eye rather then worry about the splinters in ours?

[atheorhaven]

I'm going to only add to this thread to mention a few small details..

James, being a modeller (and learning mesher myself), I love to do my own thing.  My favourite ships to work on are usually not even Trek..  My TARDIS, my first mesh (the X-03), Red Dwarf and Starbug... that has been the original stuff that I've either worked on, or released.

But I would like to point out that there have actually been a fair number of ship requests over the last little bit, a good number of which have ben tackled or are being worked on.  Namely:


Underway (taken from my inbox here):
three upcoming TNG kitbash requests
Melak
KA luxury liner

Not underway by anyone to my knowledge:
USS typhon

requested and Released:
Vikrant and Durrett
Remora
TMP Andor


and threads with requests just from scanning the first few pages..

Another Connie Refit WIP (ATTN:AZEL!!!)
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=172527&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Three b5 Ship Requests from an old friend
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=171416&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Looking for DS9 models (yes, this one was from starforce2, but it's still a request)
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=171607&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Minbari Ships
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=171455&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

TOS fanship
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=95339&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1


So, it's not exactly fair to say there have been no ship requests lately.

But... a lot of stuff does get released and it does seem to fall into the "Great Modelling Hole" around here.  I also know this one to be true as well from personal experience.  The thing I do typically is just read the posts and look for things that interest me.  The damaged Connie kitbash I did is a prime example of someone's request that I tried to help with.  And the resized and reworked Doomsday Machine.  And the Melak (a long standing request in the community).

The thing to do is to be true to yourself here and do this for yourself.  If you see a request that looks cool, undertake it.  But remember, if you have a ship that you want to do that noone else has requested and you still want to do it.. that is also a request, even if only a request from self.  And that is equally as valid.  And you can equally be as happy with the final result... even if noone else says squat about it.  You still saw your vision come to life, and that's always a good thing.

starforce2 has certainly tread on some toes here when he first arrived, but I also blame it on coming over from the BC forum enviornment (which seems more pirhanna-like and less friendly to me) and not being aware (initially) of the unspoken rules we have.  And we all feel a bit defensive when our work heads over to other games because frequently the people that may be in BC, or Armada2, or other platforms may not be aware of the original author (namely us), and tend to credit the porter of the work.  But he *has* been lightening up over the last four or so weeks.

Think that's about all I'll add to this.  Just chill guys, and be at peace.  Let's do our thing.

Don't want mackie in here doing his happy wanky dance all over the flames and carnage.  

[Captain Ron]

I ran out of Pop-corn can you guys wau=it an hour before comtinuing so I can get somemore?

[James Formo]

Atheorhaven you make the most sense to me.

Atrahasis I am not biting.  Go do your TOS thing which you rock at    

 

[starforce2]

The Andor is out? I saw a wip a day or 2 ago and it was half finished. But that is a good thing because P81's was intended for the E&F armada mod (where I got it from) and a new one is a good idea. I forgot who's doing it. it was looking good.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Alec,

Once a "Mr. Morden ... always a Mr. Morden,"

Quote:

<snip>
starforce2 has certainly tread on some toes here when he first arrived, but I also blame it on coming over from the BC forum enviornment (which seems more pirhanna-like and less friendly to me) and not being aware (initially) of the unspoken rules we have. And we all feel a bit defensive when our work heads over to other games because frequently the people that may be in BC, or Armada2, or other platforms may not be aware of the original author (namely us), and tend to credit the porter of the work. But he *has* been lightening up over the last four or so weeks.

Mr. Garibaldi.
 

[starforce2]

seeing as how I have some what of a 6th sense I always thought of myself as a bit of a Bester myself...

[Rogue NineCH]

Quote:
The Andor is out? I saw a wip a day or 2 ago and it was half finished. But that is a good thing because P81's was intended for the E&F armada mod (where I got it from) and a new one is a good idea. I forgot who's doing it. it was looking good.  

There is a TNG Andor version out.  I am starting  an update of it this week.

Personally I think there should be both, some of listening to people requests, some of do what you want done.  Everyone's style differs from person to person,  Think how boring it would be if we all did models the same way.  

Formo, not everyone can build a mesh from the ground up, if you take away the kitbashers from the community, and it will die quicker than a Ben Affleck/JLO movie at the theatres.  You take a risk when you make a completely original ship, people may not like it.  That's life, no one said it was fair.

[starforce2]

Quote:

Quote:
The Andor is out? I saw a wip a day or 2 ago and it was half finished. But that is a good thing because P81's was intended for the E&F armada mod (where I got it from) and a new one is a good idea. I forgot who's doing it. it was looking good.  

There is a TNG Andor version out.  I am starting  an update of it this week.

 

This was a tmp I had seen. It had saucer and nacelles textured, but those big lobes on either side of the engeneering hull were still bank as were the rear pylons. I assumed it was a new model.