Topic: Tactics with Beta Patch (Read 13876 times)

RAGE Cyberbeer · « **on:** February 08, 2003, 12:26:31 am »

Why does the game feel so much different with the Beta patch? I just got crushed when I usually am the one doing the crushing. Seems like things miss much more, and Klinks rock!!

Can someone give me some tips, advice, or an explanation as to why the game feels different?

Lepton1 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2003, 12:37:20 am »

Tactics!!!???!!!?? This is SFC3, point and shoot. I just had some yabo warp jumping around in a sov getting slammed everytime he droppped his shields to do so til he had like no hull left. If that last volley would have hit a little bit harder, BOOM!!!!. Tactics???!!! Where??? When?? You want tactics. Go to SFC2, never seen so much jockeying for good firing positions and such in my last two weeks on SFC2. Great games. SFC3 can't hold a candle.

RAGE Cyberbeer · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2003, 12:41:12 am »

Maybe I should make myself more clear....Any constructive advice?

FEDX-Master Zen · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2003, 12:49:14 am »

well with the beta patch its more then just point and shoot. there are a little bit more tactics required.

P.S. Klingons don't rock, I just flew it well

Dash Jones · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2003, 04:35:11 am »

In the Beta, my Romulans seem to have an easier time of it...Love playing them in the Beta. Hmm, I'd say wait until the official patch comes out soon to talk about in depth tactics, as I'm certain anything discussed now, could be revamped when the official patch comes out and everyone moves to using that.

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2003, 05:07:52 am »

I dont care about anything in the new patch, Im officaly going to be dissapointed if it dosnt sort out AMML's. I got whooped bad on SFC.net 4 corners by someone flying a Negh'var which did this.

Cloaked on start so I had no idea what armamant he had, decloaked eventualy and despite a fairly high AV he blew a whole in my rear shields, and spead across my Sov's hull like a bat out of hell, dropped 3 AMM's. At this point I noticed his shields were only 2 bars and yellow. Here he did a HET, ran back across my hull and dropped 3 more AMM's. Finaly you guessed it he HET'd then fired his weapons once more, blowing up my Sov.

I was so shocked and disgusted I nearly beet my own head in

However this guy thought he was well good beeting me in under 30 seconds, I know about the AMM cheese and could do this myself yet I refuse to. This guy also executed it very well, I probably could have beet him if I had level 5 tractor on but was too stupid to do it. I think though that considering if I didnt suck I could have beet him, its still not reasonable to load up any sort of ship as a mine layer. Its just not used in Star Trek as an offensive weapon, due to the 3 dimensions that we commonly live in.

Im sorry I know you wanted tactics for the beta patch but it wouldnt install on my UK version so I said this instead

Tulmahk · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2003, 06:59:54 pm »

Blitzkrieg, I sympathize completely.

AMML's adhere to the letter of the game rules, but violate the very spirit and intention. Yes you can beat these ships, but you need 7 or 8 shots to kill them, while they only need 1 or 2 to beat you. Statisticly, they are going to win 7 or 8 of every 10 encounters. It is a loadout that lets an inferior pilot beat a better one. This is an exploit, plain and simple.

I hope beyond hope that the patch does something about this (ideally, limiting any ship to no more than 1 AMML).

And how the hell did your Sov last even that long against a AMML? It should've taken only 1 or 2 shots to destroy you, not the 3 or 4 he took. Hehehe, the guy must've been having a bad day that day, 30 seconds instead of 15...

As to the post-patch probe, I'd like to see someone do some testing on it. If the current 25% UberProbes? end up detecting you effectively 100% of the time, the forthcoming 15% SonOfUberProbes? should still be far, far too strong (If 25% X 4 = 100%, then 15 X 4 = 60%!) Yes, I suspect Taldren's AntiRomulan Department, though they've had some setbacks, managed to sneak this one in somehow.

Galaxy_Class · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2003, 07:06:55 pm »

Sorry for sounding ignorant... but what's an AMML?

Jackal99 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:03:57 pm »

AntiMatter Mine Layer.. this shouldn´t be in a TNG game at all, i never saw any starship (TNG series)using AMML in battle.. rediculous. even the normal mines that can be dropped are just LOL.. did you ever see the Enterprise, Galaxy or a Nebula class dropping mines in battle? no

Therefore in my personal mod i banned those things out of the game (where they belong).

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:08:55 pm »

What about the "cloaked self-replicating mines" from DS9?
Wasn't it a Defiant class who was dropping them?
Why shouldn't a Defiant load up with 4 launchers and drop them on you?
You should be glad that these mines are visable and don't replicate.

While I don't agree with my above statement, and think that those mines are cheese, argue based on gameplay, not canon.

KD4 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:19:25 pm »

did they drop them in battle or pre position them. now tell me where they ever droped them in battle. the closest i can think of was the TOS ballance of terror

Jackal99 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:19:41 pm »

Quote:

What about the "cloaked self-replicating mines" from DS9?
Wasn't it a Defiant class who was dropping them?

did you notice how slowly the defiant was moving to set them in place? in another DS9 serie you also saw a battle were the USS Valiant (Defiant Class) was fighting a JemHadar battleship, but it didn`t drop a mine on it... honestly, did you ever see a starship dropping mines in battle? no.

MrCue · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:50:38 pm »

galaxy had 500 Antimatter mines, in the episode where picard was captured by the cardassians, and they were places in a nebula to force the cardassians surrender.

NOTE: I in no way wish to see 500 AMM's on-board any ship

atdi · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:51:43 pm »

Did you ever see a starfleet officer on a toilet!? No! - But I think the have to go to toilet.

Tulmahk · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:52:22 pm »

Yes, the DS9 example is an example of how you SHOULDN'T be dropping mines in battle. Jadzia was worried about making any sudden moves with the ship, lest she set the mines it was carrying off!

We certainly didn't see them zipping around the wormhole at speed 80 burping 3 AMMs at a time. Laying the minefield was a slow, tedious, dangerous task.

The Romulan BoP in Balance of Terror was a special case. #1 it was a move of desperation. #2 the nuclear mine they used was already an outdated weapon at that time. #3 the BoP obviously had the capability to lay mines in its design. #4 it had one, and only one mine to use in this way.

Vertigo · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:56:45 pm »

Ahem, here ya go:

Opening CGI for the game Armada. Maneuver "Worf-Data one." This is flying inside the open space of a Warbird hull, flying out the other side, and dropping mines while inside the WB's shields, apparently. The Defiant did it at full speed, and the WB went kablooie. Cheezy as all get out, and quite creepy in it's similarity to minelaying in SFC3.

Despite that, I agree with Alidar. When there is a conflict, gameplay should alway win over canon. At the least, why can't you shoot them or transport them away or something? For fun, I'd like defensive tractors back, and they work on mines.

That would lead to some interesting gameplay.

Scorpion · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:57:56 pm »

Yes that was the defiant in DS9 that layed those self-replicating mines but I don't think that it was in the middle of a battle. You never see ships going around and dropping mines in front of other ships in the middle of battle in TNG. Mines are supposed to be defensive and they are supposed to be used to keep other ships out of your space, not some offensive weapon that you just throw out at ships to damage them.

In SFC3 ships shouldn't be tossing out AM mines like this in the middle of battle as they are now (very cheesey tactic

), but I don't see why we should get rid of them completely. Instead I think that you should be given the option to buy a AM minefield around a planet with prestige like you can buy starbases to protect a planet in the dynaverse. This would make a planet harder to capture because of the mines and would be way more in-line with TNG.

By the way here's a pic of the defiant laying those mines in DS9:

Pestalence · « **Reply #20 on:** February 08, 2003, 09:20:32 pm »

Just wait until final release to see those changes listed in the readme !!!

also watch out for the Player Death on Alt-F4 server setting on the Dyna... don't get mad here about it, it is an option that the server admin can enable / disable.. other options involved are Prestige loss or Ship death... these can all be enabled separately, however, they are cummulative... if ship death and loss of prestige are both enabled.. then they get hit for both, not just 1...

player death means making a new account and is in my opinion the best deterrent in the Alt-F4 issue... Players would never make it to a newer ship using the Alt-F4 exploit

Locust · « **Reply #21 on:** February 08, 2003, 11:13:58 pm »

I played a game the other day and my computer completely froze mid-battle for the first time... I wouldn't want that to cause a Player death to anyone but it will...

RAGE Cyberbeer · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2003, 12:38:29 am »

Once again...I asked about tactics, not mines...Does anyone have anything constructive to say? BTW Zen, I belive Picard flew the klingon ship. However, Zen I must congratulate you for beating me and my partner on a 4th game with the patch. May I remind you that the night before you skill was slightly lacking...or perhaps you were simply tired, whatever this weeks excuse may be. You beat me!! Congrats...I win graciously and try to lose graciously.

Finally, may I remind you to confirm 2 matches against myself and Hippie.

KaBoom1701 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 09, 2003, 01:08:38 am »

The anti-matter problem would be a easy fix. Just have the programmers make an 5-10 turn weapons fire delay after depolying any mines.

Pestalence · « **Reply #24 on:** February 09, 2003, 10:33:21 pm »

Speaking of tactics against mines...

has anyone looked into the common settings folder under weapons.gf file ?

Code:

[MineItems\STANDARD MINELAYER]
Description = "STD MINELAYER"
Cost = 1000
Mass = 150
Health = 35
Energy = 1.0
Damage = 9.0
Race = "BFKR"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

[MineItems\ANTIMATTER MINELAYER]
Description = "ANTI MINELAYER"
Cost = 1500
Mass = 200
Health = 35
Energy = 1.0
Damage = 15.0
Race = "BFKR"

it lists Standard mine damage to be 9 pts and Anti-Matter mines to do 15 damage...

Guess what, mines are doing 35 damage currently, however, they are fixed to their normal damage in the upcoming patch.. this will automatically change tactics as it will take almost 2.5 times as many passes by a fast ship with the upcoming patch to do the same damage as the mines are currently in retail version...

35 damage * 4 passes * 2 mines = 280 pts damage (retail version)

15 damage * 4 passes * 2 mines = 120 damage (upcoming patch)

thats a difference of 160 damage.. which means for 2 mines per pass the player would have to make an additional 6 passes dropping mines (5 at 2 mines, 1 with 1 mine = 15 * 2 * 5 + 15 = 165 damage)...

now let's look at the number of mines... let's say a ship only carries 12 mines

in the upcoming patch, player uses 8 mines in 4 passes.. thus leaving 4 mines.... and only applying 120 damage instead of the 280 damage in the current version...

the player would need an additional 11 mines in order to match the damage (actually to exceed by 5 pts damage), however, they only have 4 mines left.... so at most an additional 60 pts for a total of 180 points damage... then they will either have to warp out.. or get shot up.. or decide to refit their ship to be more effective and stop using high speed mine layers...

this is going to change tactics drastically for mine layers as the damage in the mines is fixed in upcoming patch.... No more bug and no more exploit or cheese in mine layers...

just letting you know...

Pharacon · « **Reply #25 on:** February 09, 2003, 11:15:22 pm »

THANKGOD! I believe pestalence is right! If this is true it will clear up cheese layers, ahh i mean mine layers! I mean dont get me wrong this doesnt mean i'll take my one amm off my raptor (love to drop one out as the freak ships come flying at me!) but it will take out the stripped down multi mine layers. I fought this one guy and he had 4 amm's on his defiant and he rocked my socks on 3 passes! but i also unloaded 3 times into him and he was gunna blow on one more pass, with this new fix i think the amm will be more balanced BRAVO TALDREN! now if the 14th would get here wuicker so i can slap sum dizzy 4f on my raptor! hehe w00t!

-Pharacon

Galaxy_Class · « **Reply #27 on:** February 09, 2003, 11:51:38 pm »

The creators of Trek have stated several times: Anything in the TV shows or movies excluding The Animated Series is Canon, EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOT. This inludes games, novels, tech manuals, trading cards, RPGs conventions and whatever else you can think of. I'm surprised there's debate about this at all.

Alexander1701 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2003, 12:53:38 am »

And, of course, anything inconvinient at the time. TOS is out the window with enterprise. Don't even bother. Voyager tried to kill off TNG too. See Warp X. (TNG episode All Good Things featured warp 14, voyager claims warp 10+ is transwarp 1+

Canon is just a pleasant way of saying that they try to let at least 5 years go before they contradict themselves, and at least 15 before they contradict anything important.

Case and point. Intrepid holds how many shuttles? How many did voyager lose?

Alexander

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2003, 07:01:59 am »

I loved and still do love pretty much every Star Trek show and episode, movie etc. Its the reason I baught this game and others related to it, but if it was just like the show it would be called Star Trek - Star Fleet Com.... oh

Well there you have it folks, but it is outstanding news about the patch and AMML's. Its really made my day that I shall no longer have to worry about this. Also wasnt it also stated that now maps would be random, and you cant lay mines in Nebulas anyway? Another reason not to refit as a chese layer, however it still could be useful to have one!

Subspace · « **Reply #30 on:** February 10, 2003, 08:02:28 am »

AMM getting nerfed SWEEEEEET !!!!!!!!

I think mine layers are fair tatic ,, but they do to much damage

Subspace · « **Reply #33 on:** February 10, 2003, 09:38:46 am »

true as it wasnt working like it should its not a nerf ... but im glad it wasnt made this on purpose

Firestorm · « **Reply #35 on:** February 10, 2003, 10:35:58 am »

Its too bad if it is true that ST is on the decline, there aren't any good options our there.

Farscape, Andromeda and SG1 are ok, but still like the long term character development of trek over the years.

Star Wars probably has the largest following, but there aren't any SFC(pick a flavor EAW/OP/SFC3) strategic/tactical PC Games that can compare in the Star Wars arena.

StarTrekcaptain · « **Reply #36 on:** February 10, 2003, 11:24:22 am »

Farcapse not having character development!!! ARE YOU MAD???? Have you followed it from the beginning??? Sorry but i'm a HUGE Farcaspe fan, i've even gone as far as getting all the episodes on DVD, something I havn't done since DS9 started, still missing a couple of episodes though, but thats why they put Ebay online!!! ;-)

Any way I know what you mean, the other shows epesically SG1 hasn't really got any character development, they concentrate way too much on the story than the charcters.

Firestorm · « **Reply #37 on:** February 10, 2003, 11:44:29 am »

I do watch some Farscape, apparently not enough. I'll have to work on that!!!!

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #38 on:** February 10, 2003, 11:45:27 am »

SG1 HASNT GOT ANY CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT ARE YOU MAD???? Yup you guessed it im an SG1 fan and really like the character development and how the show is in general. My favourit would have to be DS9, Farscape is another good one but Im none too keen on Adromada:- here in lies the end of my preferences

Also yes I totaly agree playability over canon, however Im also a big fan of authenticity. Good job Star Trek contradicts itself so many times there is still plenty of scope to be both authentic-ish and still playable, I think.

Firestorm · « **Reply #39 on:** February 10, 2003, 12:18:31 pm »

Dang, I really need to watch more TV!!!!!

I liked DS9, but after awhile it turned into a Star Trek soap opera. Then it got better again as the Dominion Wars started to add back some action.

My fav episode (I have no idea why) is the "The House of Quark", I guess it was just a good story, and Quark actually showed some honor, a rarity for a Ferengi.

RAGE Cyberbeer · « **Reply #40 on:** February 08, 2003, 12:26:31 am »

Why does the game feel so much different with the Beta patch? I just got crushed when I usually am the one doing the crushing. Seems like things miss much more, and Klinks rock!!

Can someone give me some tips, advice, or an explanation as to why the game feels different?

Lepton1 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 08, 2003, 12:37:20 am »

Tactics!!!???!!!?? This is SFC3, point and shoot. I just had some yabo warp jumping around in a sov getting slammed everytime he droppped his shields to do so til he had like no hull left. If that last volley would have hit a little bit harder, BOOM!!!!. Tactics???!!! Where??? When?? You want tactics. Go to SFC2, never seen so much jockeying for good firing positions and such in my last two weeks on SFC2. Great games. SFC3 can't hold a candle.

RAGE Cyberbeer · « **Reply #42 on:** February 08, 2003, 12:41:12 am »

Maybe I should make myself more clear....Any constructive advice?

FEDX-Master Zen · « **Reply #43 on:** February 08, 2003, 12:49:14 am »

well with the beta patch its more then just point and shoot. there are a little bit more tactics required.

P.S. Klingons don't rock, I just flew it well

Dash Jones · « **Reply #44 on:** February 08, 2003, 04:35:11 am »

In the Beta, my Romulans seem to have an easier time of it...Love playing them in the Beta. Hmm, I'd say wait until the official patch comes out soon to talk about in depth tactics, as I'm certain anything discussed now, could be revamped when the official patch comes out and everyone moves to using that.

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #45 on:** February 08, 2003, 05:07:52 am »

I dont care about anything in the new patch, Im officaly going to be dissapointed if it dosnt sort out AMML's. I got whooped bad on SFC.net 4 corners by someone flying a Negh'var which did this.

Cloaked on start so I had no idea what armamant he had, decloaked eventualy and despite a fairly high AV he blew a whole in my rear shields, and spead across my Sov's hull like a bat out of hell, dropped 3 AMM's. At this point I noticed his shields were only 2 bars and yellow. Here he did a HET, ran back across my hull and dropped 3 more AMM's. Finaly you guessed it he HET'd then fired his weapons once more, blowing up my Sov.

I was so shocked and disgusted I nearly beet my own head in

However this guy thought he was well good beeting me in under 30 seconds, I know about the AMM cheese and could do this myself yet I refuse to. This guy also executed it very well, I probably could have beet him if I had level 5 tractor on but was too stupid to do it. I think though that considering if I didnt suck I could have beet him, its still not reasonable to load up any sort of ship as a mine layer. Its just not used in Star Trek as an offensive weapon, due to the 3 dimensions that we commonly live in.

Im sorry I know you wanted tactics for the beta patch but it wouldnt install on my UK version so I said this instead

Tulmahk · « **Reply #46 on:** February 08, 2003, 06:59:54 pm »

Blitzkrieg, I sympathize completely.

AMML's adhere to the letter of the game rules, but violate the very spirit and intention. Yes you can beat these ships, but you need 7 or 8 shots to kill them, while they only need 1 or 2 to beat you. Statisticly, they are going to win 7 or 8 of every 10 encounters. It is a loadout that lets an inferior pilot beat a better one. This is an exploit, plain and simple.

I hope beyond hope that the patch does something about this (ideally, limiting any ship to no more than 1 AMML).

And how the hell did your Sov last even that long against a AMML? It should've taken only 1 or 2 shots to destroy you, not the 3 or 4 he took. Hehehe, the guy must've been having a bad day that day, 30 seconds instead of 15...

As to the post-patch probe, I'd like to see someone do some testing on it. If the current 25% UberProbes? end up detecting you effectively 100% of the time, the forthcoming 15% SonOfUberProbes? should still be far, far too strong (If 25% X 4 = 100%, then 15 X 4 = 60%!) Yes, I suspect Taldren's AntiRomulan Department, though they've had some setbacks, managed to sneak this one in somehow.

Galaxy_Class · « **Reply #47 on:** February 08, 2003, 07:06:55 pm »

Sorry for sounding ignorant... but what's an AMML?

Jackal99 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:03:57 pm »

AntiMatter Mine Layer.. this shouldn´t be in a TNG game at all, i never saw any starship (TNG series)using AMML in battle.. rediculous. even the normal mines that can be dropped are just LOL.. did you ever see the Enterprise, Galaxy or a Nebula class dropping mines in battle? no

Therefore in my personal mod i banned those things out of the game (where they belong).

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #49 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:08:55 pm »

What about the "cloaked self-replicating mines" from DS9?
Wasn't it a Defiant class who was dropping them?
Why shouldn't a Defiant load up with 4 launchers and drop them on you?
You should be glad that these mines are visable and don't replicate.

While I don't agree with my above statement, and think that those mines are cheese, argue based on gameplay, not canon.

KD4 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:19:25 pm »

did they drop them in battle or pre position them. now tell me where they ever droped them in battle. the closest i can think of was the TOS ballance of terror

MrCue · « **Reply #52 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:50:38 pm »

galaxy had 500 Antimatter mines, in the episode where picard was captured by the cardassians, and they were places in a nebula to force the cardassians surrender.

NOTE: I in no way wish to see 500 AMM's on-board any ship

atdi · « **Reply #53 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:51:43 pm »

Did you ever see a starfleet officer on a toilet!? No! - But I think the have to go to toilet.

Tulmahk · « **Reply #54 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:52:22 pm »

Yes, the DS9 example is an example of how you SHOULDN'T be dropping mines in battle. Jadzia was worried about making any sudden moves with the ship, lest she set the mines it was carrying off!

We certainly didn't see them zipping around the wormhole at speed 80 burping 3 AMMs at a time. Laying the minefield was a slow, tedious, dangerous task.

The Romulan BoP in Balance of Terror was a special case. #1 it was a move of desperation. #2 the nuclear mine they used was already an outdated weapon at that time. #3 the BoP obviously had the capability to lay mines in its design. #4 it had one, and only one mine to use in this way.

Vertigo · « **Reply #55 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:56:45 pm »

Ahem, here ya go:

Opening CGI for the game Armada. Maneuver "Worf-Data one." This is flying inside the open space of a Warbird hull, flying out the other side, and dropping mines while inside the WB's shields, apparently. The Defiant did it at full speed, and the WB went kablooie. Cheezy as all get out, and quite creepy in it's similarity to minelaying in SFC3.

Despite that, I agree with Alidar. When there is a conflict, gameplay should alway win over canon. At the least, why can't you shoot them or transport them away or something? For fun, I'd like defensive tractors back, and they work on mines.

That would lead to some interesting gameplay.

Scorpion · « **Reply #57 on:** February 08, 2003, 08:57:56 pm »

Yes that was the defiant in DS9 that layed those self-replicating mines but I don't think that it was in the middle of a battle. You never see ships going around and dropping mines in front of other ships in the middle of battle in TNG. Mines are supposed to be defensive and they are supposed to be used to keep other ships out of your space, not some offensive weapon that you just throw out at ships to damage them.

In SFC3 ships shouldn't be tossing out AM mines like this in the middle of battle as they are now (very cheesey tactic

), but I don't see why we should get rid of them completely. Instead I think that you should be given the option to buy a AM minefield around a planet with prestige like you can buy starbases to protect a planet in the dynaverse. This would make a planet harder to capture because of the mines and would be way more in-line with TNG.

By the way here's a pic of the defiant laying those mines in DS9:

Pestalence · « **Reply #60 on:** February 08, 2003, 09:20:32 pm »

Just wait until final release to see those changes listed in the readme !!!

also watch out for the Player Death on Alt-F4 server setting on the Dyna... don't get mad here about it, it is an option that the server admin can enable / disable.. other options involved are Prestige loss or Ship death... these can all be enabled separately, however, they are cummulative... if ship death and loss of prestige are both enabled.. then they get hit for both, not just 1...

player death means making a new account and is in my opinion the best deterrent in the Alt-F4 issue... Players would never make it to a newer ship using the Alt-F4 exploit

Locust · « **Reply #61 on:** February 08, 2003, 11:13:58 pm »

I played a game the other day and my computer completely froze mid-battle for the first time... I wouldn't want that to cause a Player death to anyone but it will...

RAGE Cyberbeer · « **Reply #62 on:** February 09, 2003, 12:38:29 am »

Once again...I asked about tactics, not mines...Does anyone have anything constructive to say? BTW Zen, I belive Picard flew the klingon ship. However, Zen I must congratulate you for beating me and my partner on a 4th game with the patch. May I remind you that the night before you skill was slightly lacking...or perhaps you were simply tired, whatever this weeks excuse may be. You beat me!! Congrats...I win graciously and try to lose graciously.

Finally, may I remind you to confirm 2 matches against myself and Hippie.

KaBoom1701 · « **Reply #63 on:** February 09, 2003, 01:08:38 am »

The anti-matter problem would be a easy fix. Just have the programmers make an 5-10 turn weapons fire delay after depolying any mines.

Pestalence · « **Reply #64 on:** February 09, 2003, 10:33:21 pm »

Speaking of tactics against mines...

has anyone looked into the common settings folder under weapons.gf file ?

Code:

[MineItems\STANDARD MINELAYER]
Description = "STD MINELAYER"
Cost = 1000
Mass = 150
Health = 35
Energy = 1.0
Damage = 9.0
Race = "BFKR"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

[MineItems\ANTIMATTER MINELAYER]
Description = "ANTI MINELAYER"
Cost = 1500
Mass = 200
Health = 35
Energy = 1.0
Damage = 15.0
Race = "BFKR"

it lists Standard mine damage to be 9 pts and Anti-Matter mines to do 15 damage...

Guess what, mines are doing 35 damage currently, however, they are fixed to their normal damage in the upcoming patch.. this will automatically change tactics as it will take almost 2.5 times as many passes by a fast ship with the upcoming patch to do the same damage as the mines are currently in retail version...

35 damage * 4 passes * 2 mines = 280 pts damage (retail version)

15 damage * 4 passes * 2 mines = 120 damage (upcoming patch)

thats a difference of 160 damage.. which means for 2 mines per pass the player would have to make an additional 6 passes dropping mines (5 at 2 mines, 1 with 1 mine = 15 * 2 * 5 + 15 = 165 damage)...

now let's look at the number of mines... let's say a ship only carries 12 mines

in the upcoming patch, player uses 8 mines in 4 passes.. thus leaving 4 mines.... and only applying 120 damage instead of the 280 damage in the current version...

the player would need an additional 11 mines in order to match the damage (actually to exceed by 5 pts damage), however, they only have 4 mines left.... so at most an additional 60 pts for a total of 180 points damage... then they will either have to warp out.. or get shot up.. or decide to refit their ship to be more effective and stop using high speed mine layers...

this is going to change tactics drastically for mine layers as the damage in the mines is fixed in upcoming patch.... No more bug and no more exploit or cheese in mine layers...

just letting you know...

Pharacon · « **Reply #65 on:** February 09, 2003, 11:15:22 pm »

THANKGOD! I believe pestalence is right! If this is true it will clear up cheese layers, ahh i mean mine layers! I mean dont get me wrong this doesnt mean i'll take my one amm off my raptor (love to drop one out as the freak ships come flying at me!) but it will take out the stripped down multi mine layers. I fought this one guy and he had 4 amm's on his defiant and he rocked my socks on 3 passes! but i also unloaded 3 times into him and he was gunna blow on one more pass, with this new fix i think the amm will be more balanced BRAVO TALDREN! now if the 14th would get here wuicker so i can slap sum dizzy 4f on my raptor! hehe w00t!

-Pharacon

Galaxy_Class · « **Reply #67 on:** February 09, 2003, 11:51:38 pm »

The creators of Trek have stated several times: Anything in the TV shows or movies excluding The Animated Series is Canon, EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOT. This inludes games, novels, tech manuals, trading cards, RPGs conventions and whatever else you can think of. I'm surprised there's debate about this at all.

Alexander1701 · « **Reply #68 on:** February 10, 2003, 12:53:38 am »

And, of course, anything inconvinient at the time. TOS is out the window with enterprise. Don't even bother. Voyager tried to kill off TNG too. See Warp X. (TNG episode All Good Things featured warp 14, voyager claims warp 10+ is transwarp 1+

Canon is just a pleasant way of saying that they try to let at least 5 years go before they contradict themselves, and at least 15 before they contradict anything important.

Case and point. Intrepid holds how many shuttles? How many did voyager lose?

Alexander

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #69 on:** February 10, 2003, 07:01:59 am »

I loved and still do love pretty much every Star Trek show and episode, movie etc. Its the reason I baught this game and others related to it, but if it was just like the show it would be called Star Trek - Star Fleet Com.... oh

Well there you have it folks, but it is outstanding news about the patch and AMML's. Its really made my day that I shall no longer have to worry about this. Also wasnt it also stated that now maps would be random, and you cant lay mines in Nebulas anyway? Another reason not to refit as a chese layer, however it still could be useful to have one!

Subspace · « **Reply #70 on:** February 10, 2003, 08:02:28 am »

AMM getting nerfed SWEEEEEET !!!!!!!!

I think mine layers are fair tatic ,, but they do to much damage

Subspace · « **Reply #73 on:** February 10, 2003, 09:38:46 am »

true as it wasnt working like it should its not a nerf ... but im glad it wasnt made this on purpose

Firestorm · « **Reply #75 on:** February 10, 2003, 10:35:58 am »

Its too bad if it is true that ST is on the decline, there aren't any good options our there.

Farscape, Andromeda and SG1 are ok, but still like the long term character development of trek over the years.

Star Wars probably has the largest following, but there aren't any SFC(pick a flavor EAW/OP/SFC3) strategic/tactical PC Games that can compare in the Star Wars arena.

StarTrekcaptain · « **Reply #76 on:** February 10, 2003, 11:24:22 am »

Farcapse not having character development!!! ARE YOU MAD???? Have you followed it from the beginning??? Sorry but i'm a HUGE Farcaspe fan, i've even gone as far as getting all the episodes on DVD, something I havn't done since DS9 started, still missing a couple of episodes though, but thats why they put Ebay online!!! ;-)

Any way I know what you mean, the other shows epesically SG1 hasn't really got any character development, they concentrate way too much on the story than the charcters.

Firestorm · « **Reply #77 on:** February 10, 2003, 11:44:29 am »

I do watch some Farscape, apparently not enough. I'll have to work on that!!!!

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #78 on:** February 10, 2003, 11:45:27 am »

SG1 HASNT GOT ANY CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT ARE YOU MAD???? Yup you guessed it im an SG1 fan and really like the character development and how the show is in general. My favourit would have to be DS9, Farscape is another good one but Im none too keen on Adromada:- here in lies the end of my preferences

Also yes I totaly agree playability over canon, however Im also a big fan of authenticity. Good job Star Trek contradicts itself so many times there is still plenty of scope to be both authentic-ish and still playable, I think.

Firestorm · « **Reply #79 on:** February 10, 2003, 12:18:31 pm »

Dang, I really need to watch more TV!!!!!

I liked DS9, but after awhile it turned into a Star Trek soap opera. Then it got better again as the Dominion Wars started to add back some action.

My fav episode (I have no idea why) is the "The House of Quark", I guess it was just a good story, and Quark actually showed some honor, a rarity for a Ferengi.

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Topic: Tactics with Beta Patch (Read 13876 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

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Lepton1

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Tulmahk

Galaxy_Class

Jackal99

Alidar Jarok

KD4

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atdi

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Jackal99

Pestalence

Locust

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Pestalence

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Vertigo

Galaxy_Class

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StarTrekcaptain

Firestorm

StarTrekcaptain

Firestorm

Blitzkrieg

Firestorm

RAGE Cyberbeer

Lepton1

RAGE Cyberbeer

FEDX-Master Zen

Dash Jones

Blitzkrieg

Tulmahk

Galaxy_Class

Jackal99

Alidar Jarok

KD4

Jackal99

MrCue

atdi

Tulmahk

Vertigo

Tulmahk

Scorpion

Tulmahk

Jackal99

Pestalence

Locust

RAGE Cyberbeer

KaBoom1701

Pestalence

Pharacon

Vertigo

Galaxy_Class

Alexander1701

Blitzkrieg

Subspace

Pestalence

Pestalence

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Topic: Tactics with Beta Patch (Read 13876 times)