Topic: Advice to make OP run on WinXP machine

[Rogue]

The situation...

My dad loves building computers so much that he builds them for his kids and shows up with one as a gift. Yay dad. This is what he put together for me...

-MSI K7N2 delta L mother board. rev 1.3
-Athlon 2700
-ATI 9600 pro
-DirectX 8.1
-1/2 Gig of the fastest Ram it will support
-Realtek ALC650 on board sound
-Zoom 3025c modem
-Maxtor 40 gig of some sort.
-Windows XP pro, service pack 1

The problem is SFC OP wont run. Crash and freeze with no response to keyboard. As the sound is really choppy I would think think DirectX would be the problem. No go. I'm trying to run it at 8.1 which is what this rev. of XP comes with. Tried everything I could with the onboard sound. Tried disabling the onboard sound and using a SoundBlaster PCI 64 card that works with my other computer. Checked all associated drivers with audio/video to find any potential problem. Tried Win98 compatability mode. I installed the ATI card in my old machine (Win98) and it plays fine... I don't believe updating to DX9.1 is going to be useful and roll back is near impossible without rebuilding the OS.   I was going with the theory that if I made DirectX happy all would be well. The dialog and diagnostics seem to show that DX8.1 is in a happy place.

Any ideas?

[Toasty0]

Yes, you need to change the path of the shortcut to the following:

Quote:
"C:\Program Files\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\StarFleetOP.exe"

This assumes that you have installed the game in the default directory.

Best,
Jerry  

[Rogue]

Quote:
Yes, you need to change the path of the shortcut to the following:

Quote:
"C:\Program Files\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\StarFleetOP.exe"

This assumes that you have installed the game in the default directory.

Best,
Jerry    

??????... It's that easy? Oh... my... goodness. I put three days into rebuilding the software repeatedly. I was supposed to know this how? Undoubtably this has been posted before but I wasn't hitting on the right search words.

Great big thank you. I'll report the reuslts a little later this evening.  

[Rogue]

Mr. ToastyO,

It works!... It works, it works , it works ,it works!

If this were not a cyberworld that would have earned you a lunch. I'm still skeptical about WinXP but it will run now. For the sake of curiosity... what is the difference between the two .exe's? Is it just the lead in movie and registration? The likely answer should be "I don't know and I don't care." i guess. Which works for me.

I was completely bamboozeled by this one. I was strongly suspecting it would never work on this mother board. Until someone wrote a revision to the drivers at some point. And I wasn't inclined to make a stab at getting MSI tech support to put a fix for SFC on the aggenda. The last thing I think I need to do is see if I can get the swapfile to behave like I could in Win98.

Be good and happy hunting,
Rogue  

[Carrie]

Now that you have OP, make sure you get the latest patch (listed on the forum at the top), and grab OP+ 3.0 (and the EvilDave missionpacks). Your best bet for that is at Firesoul's site, http://klingon.stasis.ca

Happy hunting to you

[3dot14]

I believe the problem is the Movies.

The version of movie player OP (bink?) uses was not designed for XP.

[Rogue]

Well... as a further update... crash and burn. It seemed to solve the issue at first but upon further testing it still hangs and dies a Windows death.

I really don't know what to make of it. It acts so much like the DirectX problems of the past. Stuttering sound and a big ugly hang. Gee, this computer looks like it ought to be such a wonderful experience but noooo... Oh, what to try next. Let's try Win95 compatability and after that stick a spare hardrive I've got in it to see in Win98 can handle everything. If that doesn't fly I'm back to having to assume the Nvidia chipset drivers wont work with SFC. This is giving me a bad taste for XP even though it probably is not at fault. And because of M$ activation process (which is used up by now) I'm going to have to get a temporary pass to start over from now on. The exact reason I didn't by XP to begin with.  

[The_Infiltrator]

I have no idea what your problem is, but it isn't winXP. I have win XP and it works fine. Sounds like drivers to me.

[Pestalence]

Quote:
Well... as a further update... crash and burn. It seemed to solve the issue at first but upon further testing it still hangs and dies a Windows death.

I really don't know what to make of it. It acts so much like the DirectX problems of the past. Stuttering sound and a big ugly hang. Gee, this computer looks like it ought to be such a wonderful experience but noooo... Oh, what to try next. Let's try Win95 compatability and after that stick a spare hardrive I've got in it to see in Win98 can handle everything. If that doesn't fly I'm back to having to assume the Nvidia chipset drivers wont work with SFC. This is giving me a bad taste for XP even though it probably is not at fault. And because of M$ activation process (which is used up by now) I'm going to have to get a temporary pass to start over from now on. The exact reason I didn't by XP to begin with.  

Umm, you listed that you are running ATI chipset.. try finding the latest drivers from the ATI web site.. they only have about 9 drivers listed.

ATI sometimes has driver problems, requiring you to swap drivers out to play different games, however, I never heard of this problem concerning SFC OP, only SFC 3 TNG.

Next, go to Windows Updates, found in your Start button, and Download all the current updates, this includes Direct X 9.0b... the NVidia FX and the ATI Radeon 9000 series cards are Direct X 9 cards.

next, go into your SFC OP directory and find Starfleetop.exe, right click and select copy.

then on your desktop, delete the old shortcut.

then right click and select Paste Shortcut, then rename it as you deem fit...

You may also want to go to all the hardware manufacturers of your system and update all the chipsets to the latest drivers.. like Creative Labs for your sound card, then to your motherboard manufacturer, or your CPU manufacturer and get the latest chipset drivers for your mother board...

if the stuff your machine was built with is over a month old on the shelf, chances are the drivers are outdated on your system... It is best to check windows updates and your hardware manufacturers every month for new updates and drivers...

I myself have not had 1 single problem with my system running any game.. and here are my system specs...

Toshiba Satellite 5205-s705

Pentium IV 2.4 Ghz mobile
1 GIG DDR PC2100 Ram
60 GIG 7200 RPM Toshiba HDD
550 MHZ  Front Bus Motherboard
NVidia Geforce FX 5600GO GPU with 64 MB DDR PC 2100
Yahama AC-XG Dolby Digital 6.1 Surround Sound Capable, THX, DTS Certified sound card
Built in Harmon/Kardon Dolby Digital 6.1, DTS, THX certified speakers with subwoofer.
Clear Advanced Super View 15" UXGA monitor 1600x1200 @ 100 Hz capable
Direct X 9.0b
Microsoft Windows XP Professional Media Center Edition
Remote control for Media Center, remote sensor, IR blaster cable for cable boxes
Toshiba TV Tuner card
11 MBps Wi-FI Wireless 802.11b built in
Ethernet 10/100 built in
V.92 Modem built in
i.Link (IEEE 1394) port and SD slot
MP3 card slot.
DVD/CD-R/RW (DVD Ram Drive)

and this is my laptop computer

$2100 at Comp USA and i have had no problems with any games at all.. Plus I record shows off of TV on here and burn them to DVD.. especially HBO movies...

anyhow, your system should be running OP no problem, it just sounds like you need to update all your hardware drivers and get ALL the windows updates.....

Then you can go to my web page and patch OP to the correct current version, then you can get all the optional downloads that i also have mirrored...

my web site is here :

http://www.nightsoftware.com/effhq/sfcop2.html

Hope that this information helps you out...

 

[Toasty0]

To add to what P said if you know how to run a dxdialog please do so. Sometimes you can find the cause of a problem that log.

Also, right click "My Computer"-->properties-->Hardware-->device manager.  Are there any red Xs or yellow question marks?

Look, XP is a great OS, imho. It's just differenbt from what some folks are used to, and in their MTV-gotta-have-it-last-week lifestyle they are too quick to assume the failing is with the OS instead of their lack of willingness to understand the powerful operating system they just installed.

<RantOn>
If folks want to continue driving a tricycle then they should stay with win98 or winMe and let us Harley riders have our fun! But don't tell us our bikes suck cause they can't manage to keep their Harley upright at the light!</RantOn>

   

[Rogue]

Almost all that has been written I have done. ToastyO gave me the alternate StarfleetOP.exe launcher. I'm at the current version of OP. The few things remaining are as follows.

You may have pointed out the one thing I am hesitant to do. I am at DX8.1b. Which says all drivers are certified and passes the diagnostic tests. I did download the Latest DirectX 9 sdk for installation on any MS operating system. That will be one of the last things in the progression as it is such a bear to roll back if not impossible without reinstalling the OS.

I did investigate all associated drivers for the mother board, video card and on board sound system. I don't really believe XP has anything to do with it. I'm just annoyed that I have to contact MS from now on if I want to reinstal the operating system. Which could become necessary with all the driver instal/unistal that I am doing. If I have to make a call at this point I would think that the possible problems would be...

-DirectX needs updating even though it passes the diagnostics.
-The ATI catalyst version is the culprit as I'm using one just high enough for DX8.
-The Nvidia chipset support drivers are at issue.
-Perhaps the RAM isn't the correct type for this mother board.
   I didn't build the system so that's a thin possibility. Very thin.

Now one thing I can say is the mother board drivers don't instal like the manual says they will. There is supposed to be an instal for the sound system that is either missing from the CD or some other odd explaination. The system is a Realtek ALC650 chipset. I downloaded the drivers for that system directly from Realtek and they seem to instal like the mother board manual indicates. However I cannot be sure that it will want to play on my mother board. There is no update at MSI's site for the audio as they are included in the all in one Nvidia set up. So darn it. Even disabling it and trying the Creative sound card didn't help. What conlusion can I draw? Perhaps an error was made setting up the drivers for this mother board. I did use both the drivers on the CD and what I downloaded from MSI but they are supposed to be the same. No difference was achieved.

I've spent a lot of time trying to make this fly and I'm putting it on hold for a few days to deal with other things that need my attention. Plus... I just want to blow stuff up after moding OP till it squeels with about everything I can mess with. Models, script, textures... I'm really happy with it but making it work on the new box remains to be pinned down. Either the magic mother board drivers will appear soon or perhaps DX9.0b will be the answer. I'll let you all know what progress has been made when I can make it.

Sincerely, thanks for the thoughtful answers as it is appreciated.

Till then... blow some stuff up... BOOM!          

[Cleaven]

Not quite the same problem but there was another person who solved a play problem by changing these sfc.ini settings:

[Mouse]
async=0
hwblit=1
 

[Captain KoraH]

I can put this info to use some day!

[Dogmatix!]

Quote:
The situation...

My dad loves building computers so much that he builds them for his kids and shows up with one as a gift. Yay dad. This is what he put together for me...

-MSI K7N2 delta L mother board. rev 1.3
-Athlon 2700
-ATI 9600 pro
-DirectX 8.1
-1/2 Gig of the fastest Ram it will support
-Realtek ALC650 on board sound
-Zoom 3025c modem
-Maxtor 40 gig of some sort.
-Windows XP pro, service pack 1

The problem is SFC OP wont run. Crash and freeze with no response to keyboard. As the sound is really choppy I would think think DirectX would be the problem. No go. I'm trying to run it at 8.1 which is what this rev. of XP comes with. Tried everything I could with the onboard sound. Tried disabling the onboard sound and using a SoundBlaster PCI 64 card that works with my other computer. Checked all associated drivers with audio/video to find any potential problem. Tried Win98 compatability mode. I installed the ATI card in my old machine (Win98) and it plays fine... I don't believe updating to DX9.1 is going to be useful and roll back is near impossible without rebuilding the OS.   I was going with the theory that if I made DirectX happy all would be well. The dialog and diagnostics seem to show that DX8.1 is in a happy place.

Any ideas?  

Try the SFC.INI "fix" that Cleaven lists and let us know.


I'm curious to know why you're concerned about rolling back your DirectX version if you upgrade to the lastest version (which is clearly supported, if not preferred, by your graphics hardware and the drivers you likely should be using for it.


I have ATI graphics adaptors in both my laptop and my desktop.  Both worked under DX8.1, both work using the latest drivers and the lastest version of DX.  My laptop is an Intel model.  My destop uses the same processor (XP 2700+) that you're using.  I'm also using onboard sound on my desktop PC.

Incidentally, I've never had to swap back and forth between video drivers to get games to work properly and I've never had a problem running any software title, game or otherwise.  Go figure.


My system specs are as follows:

Athlon XP 2700+  (Thermalright SLK-800/Vantec Tornado HSF, 12x195)
Asus A7N8X-Deluxe (1002A1 SATA "Uber" BIOS)
1024 MB (2x512 MB) Corsair XMS PC3200C2
Sapphire Radeon Atlantis 9700 Pro (Cat. 3.6)
ViewSonic VX900 19" LCD
80GB Maxtor (7200 RPM/ATA133)
Logitech MX-700 wireless mouse
Windows XP Pro (fully and completely updated including the lastest version of DX)




 

[RingWraith 413]

Did your 9600 require you to install DX9 first? My 9800 Pro did, and also the ATI Cat.  3.7 drivers are out.  I have WinXP Home and haven't had any problems playing EAW or OP, or using any of the Mods. Try loading DX9 first and then the Cat 3.7's. They are available as a complete file, which includes the Smartgart uninstaller, which you shouldn't have to use. Last thing, try installing the new Motherboard drivers, if available, before DX9 and Cat 3.7.  Lastly, check your bios settings.

                                                                       DIF_Wraith 413

[Rogue]

Well... I took another stab at it this evening. What did I get for the trouble? An unusable WidowsXP. The video completely fragged. Ya, I know, I did it... I didn't uninstal the right driver in the right order. Sooo... I'm gonna have to start from scratch again. Much anguish but a little amuzed.

I don't know why I bother with Backup. More often than not you can't get back to where you were. There goes the updates and now I must get Microsofts blessing and annointment again. Which I wont bother with till I get where I want to go this time. And, may I reitterate, sticks in my craw. I'm not pirating their software and I'm only using it on one box. I suppose I will have to appeal to Microstar if all remedies fail this time.



9/19/03 - Ya know what... It's the audio set up. Upon visiting the MSI user forum I've discovered everyone has some sort of issue with the audio drivers. This problem is rather infamous and has driven many half nuts. It remains to be seen if it can be solved. Even if I figured out the thing to do on my own it has been confirmed by other peoples experiences with this MB system. So, should I make my own T-shirt with the universal 'Sucker' logo on it? Subcaptioned 'I got bit by the MSI audio bug?

Thanks for all of the suggestions and I'll post no more till I bask in the warm glow of XP/OP goodness. Arghhh...

[Captain Krenn]

There is an audio bug with the K7N2 Delta L?

Well, thats disheartening since that is what I just got as a new motherboard.

<sigh>

Have any extras of that T-shirt hanging around?

 

[Rogue]

Quote:
There is an audio bug with the K7N2 Delta L?

Well, thats disheartening since that is what I just got as a new motherboard.

<sigh>

Have any extras of that T-shirt hanging around?

   

It might not be all that bad. Be sure to go to the user forum and find the thread on the K7N2G audio problems with the Realtek ACL650. No sense in doing what I did and coming up with the same answer on your own. I was not aware of the forum until after I had figured it out. It will give you a step by step through this little... difficulty. Oh heck, here's the link.

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/e_service/forum/thread.php?threadid=14649&boardid=14&styleid=1&sid=6e08ad3648e99f489401207263ed0635

Hope it saves you some grief. Just watch for the NVIDEA drivers to not instal all that you need (the sound manager interface simply will not instal and DirectX tells you your sound has no hardware buffers) and verify that DirectX is happy with your set up and you should be about there.

I still have yet to find out how to stop the paging system in XP from making my sound glitchy. After a little research it looks like I'll have to invest in more RAM. Still not sure about that but it seems XP likes to make pretty extensive use of what used to called swapfile. And, unlike Win98, conservativeswapfile=1 is not an option. If any of you know all about this please feel free to share the knowledge. I'm still an XP novice.    

[Captain Krenn]

Thanks for the link Rogue.

I'll try this tonight as I noticed some sound glitches when playing Anarchy Online.  At first I thought it was just bugs in the
game software.  

If this doesn't work, I guess I'll just have to invest in a SoundBlaster.

 

[Rogue]

Yer welcome. But... hold off on the soundblaster. I am experiencing some oddities in the IRQ assignment which I havn't nailed down yet. If you already have an appropriate sound card try that first before you spend money. If I figure the 'what to do' out I will let you know.  

[RingWraith 413]

 Do you have the bios assigning your IRQ's or WinXP? Try letting the bios assign IRQ's and see if that helps you.

                                                 DIF_Wraith 413

[Rogue]

Ringwraith, That's a great trick that my dad tipped me off to. I decided it was in my best interest to pull the sound card and use the onboard resources for audio. Thus far all is well. Except for how to tame the XP pagefile... which I know little about on this operating system. There has got to be a better way than unloading programs. Or, is the simple truth the fact I am going to have to up the RAM from 1/2 gig to a more friendly 1 gig?  

[RingWraith 413]

 512 of RAM should be plenty. I would run MSConfig and Services.MSC and use these to programs to keep non-essential programs from starting up. Especially "messenger", the MS built-in program, not MSN messenger. Those pop-up's will kill your online gaming experience. Try going to some of the computer websites for info on setting the pagefile.

                                                         DIF_Wraith 413

[Rogue]

Hmmm, I'll look into that. MSconfig I knew about but the services is something I'll have to spend some time understanding.

I have been able to get the game to run without hanging the system but the sound is jitter ridden. I really shouldn't be as the on board sound system (ACL650) is designed to be easy on resources and bandwidth. I have to lay the fault sqarely on MSI's doorstep. One should be able to count on the board drivers to be properly tested which certainly wasn't the case here. I still can't make up my mind whether to reject this mother board or let the drivers evolve into something that works up to expectations. This has not been a lot of fun.    

[RazalYllib]

another tip..

make pagefile min and max values the same.
also pagefile size should be 1.5 x the amount of ram u have

[Toasty0]

Quote:
Hmmm, I'll look into that. MSconfig I knew about but the services is something I'll have to spend some time understanding.

I have been able to get the game to run without hanging the system but the sound is jitter ridden. I really shouldn't be as the on board sound system (ACL650) is designed to be easy on resources and bandwidth. I have to lay the fault sqarely on MSI's doorstep. One should be able to count on the board drivers to be properly tested which certainly wasn't the case here. I still can't make up my mind whether to reject this mother board or let the drivers evolve into something that works up to expectations. This has not been a lot of fun.    

I don't remember if I asked you this already or not, but is this an upgrade from ME?  

[Rogue]

Na, it is an OEM disc for XP pro with service pack1 included. I don't have the diagnostic skills or software to know what the root cause is but can make an educated guess. The K7N2 delta L is infamous for the experience of being supplied with chipset drivers that were not really tested. What would you think of a DirectX9.0b dialog that tells you that you don't have hardware buffers for sound? And then you instal the sound system drivers from the chipset makers site (Realtek) and they then become enabled?

This computer was a gift from my father and will be treated with the due respect it deserves. But it has been a total headache. The specifications for the motherboard system looks so nice and is based on the NVIDEA nforce2 system. Which totaly outclasses what I have. Between the supplied drivers and perhaps the way the components integrate has insured some pretty odd behavior. If I can get the sound system to behave then all will be well. And, get this, disabling the sound chipset and installing a seperate sound card is marginaly worse... ah nuts... Not to mention the time invested.  

[RingWraith 413]

 Rogue, here's a site I found concerning tweaking WinXP. Some good info here.
http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=review&dId=324

                                                                     DIF_Wraith 413  

[Captain Krenn]

After visiting the alternate download page listed in the forum link my sound card is working find.

No stutters and the static crackling noise have dissapeared.

 

[Rogue]

Really? That's useful to know. You say you went with a sound card or did you enable the sound chipset? What graphics card are you using? Memory? I've read that the K7N2 is really picky about the RAM. The Realtek drivers havn't solved it for me. I wonder if I disabled DMA and forgot about it...  

[Captain Krenn]

I am using the sound card built onto the motherboard(chipset)

My video card is a Nvidia 5600 with 256 meg

memory is 2100 ddr  512 meg - 1 256 card and 2 128 cards

Is that any help?

I was having stuttering sound and music while playing Anarchy Online.  Also occasionally would get lots
of static sounds.  Almost like a radio that was slightly off station.

I added the new drivers and these problems stopped occuring.  

I intend to keep an eye(or at the very least an ear) on it.  But for now the
problem seems to be solved.

I am a man with little patience though, if it resurfaces, I'll go get an SB Audiology(? spelling)
and disable the on board sound card.

 

[Captain Krenn]

Almost forgot, there are a couple of links for getting the driver.  

The first one didn't work, sound card still kep messing up.  

This one however

http://www.pc-infozone.de/tiki-index.php

was the one that seems to have fixed it.

Look under the RealTek section

and download the one titled

  WDM V 3.48 Win 98GOLD/98SE/ME/2K/XP

it will download a self installing driver file

run the exe

after that, it seemed to be fine.

[Rogue]

Thank you for the information.

     I'm going to give it another shot this evening and see how it goes. I forgot to ask about the version of DirectX you are using and if you have run Starfleet Command OP or EAW yet. If I can get this system happy with everything I'll certainly be a happy boy.

     My father has completely different values for a computer than I do. There are two things he delights in. The first is finding a parking spot within spitting distance of the door. The other is a computer that boots in no time flat. It doesn't matter if it is stable or not but if that sucker boots in 2.7 seconds he giggles like a little girl.

    "Is that fast enough for ya, buddy?" says he.

     The reason he went MSI is for their reputation for overclocking. Hence, they make the best consumer mother boards under the sun. God, I love the man. He is an endless source of amusement. Another thing he does is pound the last key of any keyboard entry he makes. I am amazed that he hasn't driven the 'enter' key into the board yet. BAM!  

[Rogue]

Ah frig... so much for that. I just plain don't know here. The thing that sticks out as different between you and I is that video card. You have the Nvidea and I have the ATI.

At this point it will take components to troubleshoot. I'm going to take a break from it for a while and consider rebuilding the system from the ground up. I have a lot of components to work from and will concentrate on the bandwidth between the RAM and the processor. I don't have many requirements for a computer but it is required to run SFC. The one thing I can't get this one to do. Darn it!  

[Captain Krenn]

I am running Direct X  9.0b (4.09.0000.0902)

using windows xp pro with all the latest patches applied.

Not sure if thats of any help or not.

Krenn

System specs

Athalon XP 1800+
MSI K7N2 Delta L
Nvidia 5600 w/256 meg
512 Meg 2100 DDR
Seagate 40 gig HD
Maxtor 20 gig HD
52X Samsung CD drive
8X Hitachi DVD drive

Other devices(sound card, ethernet, ect...) are running off the mother board.

I used the drivers that I mentioned to run the sound card.  Did a fresh install of OP, then applied the patch before I ever ran the game.

Then I set the display settings to their hightest and run several single player missions. Everything worked great.

No sound stuttering or anything like that.  

Let me know if there is anything else I can tell you.  

...Now, if I can just find a way to bring down this Fed battleship with an XFF...

 

[Captain Krenn]

oh, forgot to see what revision the motherboard is.  

I'll check that tonight.

 

[Rogue]

Quote:
I am running Direct X  9.0b (4.09.0000.0902)

Krenn

System specs

Athalon XP 1800+
MSI K7N2 Delta L
Nvidia 5600 w/256 meg
512 Meg 2100 DDR
Seagate 40 gig HD
Maxtor 20 gig HD
52X Samsung CD drive
8X Hitachi DVD drive

Other devices(sound card, ethernet, ect...) are running off the mother board.

I used the drivers that I mentioned to run the sound card.  Did a fresh install of OP, then applied the patch before I ever ran the game.

Then I set the display settings to their hightest and run several single player missions. Everything worked great.

No sound stuttering or anything like that.  

Let me know if there is anything else I can tell you.  

...Now, if I can just find a way to bring down this Fed battleship with an XFF...

   

As a comparison to me...

DirectX 9.0b
Athalon 2100+
MSI K7N2 delta L version 1.3
ATI 9600 pro
512 Meg PC3200 DDR
Maxtor40gig
On board sound used - Realtek ACL650

OP patched to 2.5.4.12

That Nvidea you are running sticks out as the big difference. The RAM I am using from Crucial  should  be fully supported. I wouldn't be completely surprised that the Nvidea is a happy match for the Nvidea nforce2 chipset. Graphics adapters and their drivers are believed to be the cause of many a problems in some systems. I've tended to like ATI because often they are the first ones I've seen that write drivers for the the latest DirectX. Although... the only thing that seems to misbehave is the sound. Which is awful. And it still crashes in campaign play.

I truly appreciate you taking the time to list your system. That should show me that there are three possiblities.

1. ATI 9600
2. PC3200 DDR
3. Bad mother board.

Perhaps I can locate a patch at ATI or manualy set the interupts. Any way this goes I can tell you I have invested far too much time trying to make OP run on this machine. It has completey worn me out.

As a possible useful information... there are updated drivers at Nvidea's website for the Nforce2 chipset. They have worked the best of any for me so far. You still have to instal the Realtek drivers which are up to 3.49 now. But if everything works for you then it is probably wise to stick with what you have.

Peace, Bro  

[Captain Krenn]

No trouble at all, just wish I could be more help.

The only tests I made were with the skirmish missions.  

I will try to single player campaigns to see if there is a difference
then I'll let you know.

Can't imagine why there would be, but I'll give it a shot.

BTW Do you have any trouble with your CPU temp sensor?  

Mine is reading at 72 C.  But when I put my finger on the CPU
its not even warm.  Just curious if the CPU sensor is on the motherboard
or if its using the chips sensor.  Which ever one it is, its reading incorrectly.

Just wondering if you were having the same trouble or not.

peace

Krenn
 

[Rogue]

You have provided invaluable information. I certainly have more to go on than I did before.

As for as the temp sensor... I have no knowledge of the problem. I did remember reading about the issue on the MSI forums for misreadings with the utiliy that is provided. But that's all I can tell you. Everything works on the K7N2 - WinXP system (I'm on my old pooter at the moment) except, of all things, OP. Ah well... it's hard to garner any sympathy for a single game. But, it's the only game I really care about.

For what it is worth... the system hasn't cost me dime one thus far. If, for a modest investment, I can smooth out this problem then I will still be fortunate. Except for the year it has taken off of my life... kidding, really.

Again, thank you greatly for the information you provided. I knew I was at the point where it would take components to troubleshoot and what you have told me gets me there in part.

Peace.  

[KBF-JD]

Quote:
You have provided invaluable information. I certainly have more to go on than I did before.

As for as the temp sensor... I have no knowledge of the problem. I did remember reading about the issue on the MSI forums for misreadings with the utiliy that is provided. But that's all I can tell you. Everything works on the K7N2 - WinXP system (I'm on my old pooter at the moment) except, of all things, OP. Ah well... it's hard to garner any sympathy for a single game. But, it's the only game I really care about.

For what it is worth... the system hasn't cost me dime one thus far. If, for a modest investment, I can smooth out this problem then I will still be fortunate. Except for the year it has taken off of my life... kidding, really.

Again, thank you greatly for the information you provided. I knew I was at the point where it would take components to troubleshoot and what you have told me gets me there in part.

Peace.  

Sorry I did not see this earlier.  There is something that EVERYONE here has missed....

The POWER SUPPLY.

Athlons hate cheap power supplies.  I had a cheap power supply cause almost the exact same behavior you are seeing.

If your dad is like me, he probably is used to finding the cheapest case/ps he can find.  They usually work fine.  But can cause these problems...

I'd look into it.

jd  

[RingWraith 413]

 I see that your using PC3200 RAM. I just read in the new issue of Maximum PC magazine that running your RAM asynchronously of your CPU may not work very well with Nvidia chipset motherboards. Try setting the memory clock speed to match your CPU in the bios (133).  And JD makes a good point about power supplies. Antec, Vantec and Enermax all make very good PS's.

                                                     DIF_Wraith 413

[Captain Krenn]

Ran some tests last night in single player campaign, everthing worked AOK.

then did some gaming on the Dyna servers, no problems.  

I did have some darn MS message pop up and crash the game from the messenger service.

Stupid pop up window saying "Your computer is leaking your iP address to everyone on the web.  Log on our sight
...blah, blah, blah..."

Turned off messenger service

I hate people who try to exploit other people like that.

 

[Rogue]

Thank you folks for all of the thoughtful advice. I'm going to give it another go this weekend and see what happens.

Power supply? Perhaps... It is a moderate 350 Watt power supply. I have noticed a number of people running 450 Watts and more. I have thought to unplug other devices to lower the power drain but I shouldn't rule that out as a potential problem.

The PC3200 could certainly be the problem. I'll give the lower setting a try.

Captain Krenn... you are my hero this week. You system is a close parallel of mine and your willingness to test is very... very... appreciated. I understand about the messenger crud. I unloaded it from Windows set up if I understand the program correctly. Certainly something I would have little use for.  

[KBF-JD]

Quote:
Thank you folks for all of the thoughtful advice. I'm going to give it another go this weekend and see what happens.

Power supply? Perhaps... It is a moderate 350 Watt power supply. I have noticed a number of people running 450 Watts and more. I have thought to unplug other devices to lower the power drain but I shouldn't rule that out as a potential problem.

The PC3200 could certainly be the problem. I'll give the lower setting a try.

Captain Krenn... you are my hero this week. You system is a close parallel of mine and your willingness to test is very... very... appreciated. I understand about the messenger crud. I unloaded it from Windows set up if I understand the program correctly. Certainly something I would have little use for.    

Quality is more important than quanity(watts)

"And JD makes a good point about power supplies. Antec, Vantec and Enermax all make very good PS's. "

Make sure whatever you are running is AMD certified.  The ones listed above are fine.  I know you can find Antecs at compusa, they are a lot more expensive there, but you can find CompUSA anywhere.  You can save a lot of money if you find a local computer shop with good quality PSs and a good rep.  A lot of people are selling "P4" certified Power supply/case combos(at very cheap prices)  that are not really good for Athlon MB/cpu combos.  They work fine for P4s & Celerons.

Athlons often require more juice at some of the voltages that the P4 combos don't use that much.

If it's a software problem, your event log should have some info...  If it's it's a "freeze up, it is usually hardware...  usually

jd  

[Rogue]

OK, ya'all ready for this. It works!

It wasn't the sound.
It wasn't the memory.
Not XP.
Not the power supply.
Not the mother board.
Not the mother board drivers or any other driver for that matter.



It was never defective to begin with...



I just assumed you had to run it in compatability mode.



It won't run in compatability mode.



You may now have fun at my expense. Gosh, I hate to tell on myself. I don't know whether to feel really happy or really embarased. Let's just say both and leave it at that.



Feel free to talk amongst yourselves and be glad you didn't do what I did and waste so much of your time. Never the less... should someone else run into this... don't make the same assumptiom I made.  

[Captain Krenn]

Oops

Well, all this fussing with systems settings and getting new sound drivers fixed my sound problems, so something good did come from this

Glad you figured it out!

 

[Rogue]

Quote:
Oops

Well, all this fussing with systems settings and getting new sound drivers fixed my sound problems, so something good did come from this

Glad you figured it out!

   

Thank you.

Well... no man is a complete failure. They can always serve as a bad example.

I'm gald this little adventure may have tipped you off to the Realtek drivers sooner rather than later. For what it is worth, I am using the Nvidea version 2.45 driver suite I got from their website. And the Realtek 3.49 audio drivers works just fine. I still have stuff to do but all should go well now.

Happy hunting and thanks for your willingness to help.  

[Toasty0]

Quote:
OK, ya'all ready for this. It works!

It wasn't the sound.
It wasn't the memory.
Not XP.
Not the power supply.
Not the mother board.
Not the mother board drivers or any other driver for that matter.



It was never defective to begin with...



I just assumed you had to run it in compatability mode.



It won't run in compatability mode.



You may now have fun at my expense. Gosh, I hate to tell on myself. I don't know whether to feel really happy or really embarased. Let's just say both and leave it at that.



Feel free to talk amongst yourselves and be glad you didn't do what I did and waste so much of your time. Never the less... should someone else run into this... don't make the same assumptiom I made.  

Mawahahahaha...I'm glad all the above is true.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Now c'mon'here, so we can give you a knuggy!
   

[Rogue]

Quote:


Mawahahahaha...I'm glad all the above is true.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Now c'mon'here, so we can give you a knuggy!
     

Knuggy accepted in the spirit it was given.

I was so thrilled to finally hit on the problem that I had no reservations in admitting it. It was more important to tell my little story so someone else doesn't make the same mistake... Hey, it could happen... right?

I also offer you a special thanks ToastyO. I think it speaks well of our little game community that we do our part to help each other out. Now I've got a smoking new machine that has a lot more power than I had before. That  will  run OP. That's how much I like this game. If it won't run SFC then what good is it?      

[Rogue]

The situation...

My dad loves building computers so much that he builds them for his kids and shows up with one as a gift. Yay dad. This is what he put together for me...

-MSI K7N2 delta L mother board. rev 1.3
-Athlon 2700
-ATI 9600 pro
-DirectX 8.1
-1/2 Gig of the fastest Ram it will support
-Realtek ALC650 on board sound
-Zoom 3025c modem
-Maxtor 40 gig of some sort.
-Windows XP pro, service pack 1

The problem is SFC OP wont run. Crash and freeze with no response to keyboard. As the sound is really choppy I would think think DirectX would be the problem. No go. I'm trying to run it at 8.1 which is what this rev. of XP comes with. Tried everything I could with the onboard sound. Tried disabling the onboard sound and using a SoundBlaster PCI 64 card that works with my other computer. Checked all associated drivers with audio/video to find any potential problem. Tried Win98 compatability mode. I installed the ATI card in my old machine (Win98) and it plays fine... I don't believe updating to DX9.1 is going to be useful and roll back is near impossible without rebuilding the OS.   I was going with the theory that if I made DirectX happy all would be well. The dialog and diagnostics seem to show that DX8.1 is in a happy place.

Any ideas?

[Toasty0]

Yes, you need to change the path of the shortcut to the following:

Quote:
"C:\Program Files\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\StarFleetOP.exe"

This assumes that you have installed the game in the default directory.

Best,
Jerry  

[Rogue]

Quote:
Yes, you need to change the path of the shortcut to the following:

Quote:
"C:\Program Files\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\StarFleetOP.exe"

This assumes that you have installed the game in the default directory.

Best,
Jerry    

??????... It's that easy? Oh... my... goodness. I put three days into rebuilding the software repeatedly. I was supposed to know this how? Undoubtably this has been posted before but I wasn't hitting on the right search words.

Great big thank you. I'll report the reuslts a little later this evening.  

[Rogue]

Mr. ToastyO,

It works!... It works, it works , it works ,it works!

If this were not a cyberworld that would have earned you a lunch. I'm still skeptical about WinXP but it will run now. For the sake of curiosity... what is the difference between the two .exe's? Is it just the lead in movie and registration? The likely answer should be "I don't know and I don't care." i guess. Which works for me.

I was completely bamboozeled by this one. I was strongly suspecting it would never work on this mother board. Until someone wrote a revision to the drivers at some point. And I wasn't inclined to make a stab at getting MSI tech support to put a fix for SFC on the aggenda. The last thing I think I need to do is see if I can get the swapfile to behave like I could in Win98.

Be good and happy hunting,
Rogue  

[Carrie]

Now that you have OP, make sure you get the latest patch (listed on the forum at the top), and grab OP+ 3.0 (and the EvilDave missionpacks). Your best bet for that is at Firesoul's site, http://klingon.stasis.ca

Happy hunting to you

[3dot14]

I believe the problem is the Movies.

The version of movie player OP (bink?) uses was not designed for XP.

[Rogue]

Well... as a further update... crash and burn. It seemed to solve the issue at first but upon further testing it still hangs and dies a Windows death.

I really don't know what to make of it. It acts so much like the DirectX problems of the past. Stuttering sound and a big ugly hang. Gee, this computer looks like it ought to be such a wonderful experience but noooo... Oh, what to try next. Let's try Win95 compatability and after that stick a spare hardrive I've got in it to see in Win98 can handle everything. If that doesn't fly I'm back to having to assume the Nvidia chipset drivers wont work with SFC. This is giving me a bad taste for XP even though it probably is not at fault. And because of M$ activation process (which is used up by now) I'm going to have to get a temporary pass to start over from now on. The exact reason I didn't by XP to begin with.  

[The_Infiltrator]

I have no idea what your problem is, but it isn't winXP. I have win XP and it works fine. Sounds like drivers to me.

[Pestalence]

Quote:
Well... as a further update... crash and burn. It seemed to solve the issue at first but upon further testing it still hangs and dies a Windows death.

I really don't know what to make of it. It acts so much like the DirectX problems of the past. Stuttering sound and a big ugly hang. Gee, this computer looks like it ought to be such a wonderful experience but noooo... Oh, what to try next. Let's try Win95 compatability and after that stick a spare hardrive I've got in it to see in Win98 can handle everything. If that doesn't fly I'm back to having to assume the Nvidia chipset drivers wont work with SFC. This is giving me a bad taste for XP even though it probably is not at fault. And because of M$ activation process (which is used up by now) I'm going to have to get a temporary pass to start over from now on. The exact reason I didn't by XP to begin with.  

Umm, you listed that you are running ATI chipset.. try finding the latest drivers from the ATI web site.. they only have about 9 drivers listed.

ATI sometimes has driver problems, requiring you to swap drivers out to play different games, however, I never heard of this problem concerning SFC OP, only SFC 3 TNG.

Next, go to Windows Updates, found in your Start button, and Download all the current updates, this includes Direct X 9.0b... the NVidia FX and the ATI Radeon 9000 series cards are Direct X 9 cards.

next, go into your SFC OP directory and find Starfleetop.exe, right click and select copy.

then on your desktop, delete the old shortcut.

then right click and select Paste Shortcut, then rename it as you deem fit...

You may also want to go to all the hardware manufacturers of your system and update all the chipsets to the latest drivers.. like Creative Labs for your sound card, then to your motherboard manufacturer, or your CPU manufacturer and get the latest chipset drivers for your mother board...

if the stuff your machine was built with is over a month old on the shelf, chances are the drivers are outdated on your system... It is best to check windows updates and your hardware manufacturers every month for new updates and drivers...

I myself have not had 1 single problem with my system running any game.. and here are my system specs...

Toshiba Satellite 5205-s705

Pentium IV 2.4 Ghz mobile
1 GIG DDR PC2100 Ram
60 GIG 7200 RPM Toshiba HDD
550 MHZ  Front Bus Motherboard
NVidia Geforce FX 5600GO GPU with 64 MB DDR PC 2100
Yahama AC-XG Dolby Digital 6.1 Surround Sound Capable, THX, DTS Certified sound card
Built in Harmon/Kardon Dolby Digital 6.1, DTS, THX certified speakers with subwoofer.
Clear Advanced Super View 15" UXGA monitor 1600x1200 @ 100 Hz capable
Direct X 9.0b
Microsoft Windows XP Professional Media Center Edition
Remote control for Media Center, remote sensor, IR blaster cable for cable boxes
Toshiba TV Tuner card
11 MBps Wi-FI Wireless 802.11b built in
Ethernet 10/100 built in
V.92 Modem built in
i.Link (IEEE 1394) port and SD slot
MP3 card slot.
DVD/CD-R/RW (DVD Ram Drive)

and this is my laptop computer

$2100 at Comp USA and i have had no problems with any games at all.. Plus I record shows off of TV on here and burn them to DVD.. especially HBO movies...

anyhow, your system should be running OP no problem, it just sounds like you need to update all your hardware drivers and get ALL the windows updates.....

Then you can go to my web page and patch OP to the correct current version, then you can get all the optional downloads that i also have mirrored...

my web site is here :

http://www.nightsoftware.com/effhq/sfcop2.html

Hope that this information helps you out...

 

[Toasty0]

To add to what P said if you know how to run a dxdialog please do so. Sometimes you can find the cause of a problem that log.

Also, right click "My Computer"-->properties-->Hardware-->device manager.  Are there any red Xs or yellow question marks?

Look, XP is a great OS, imho. It's just differenbt from what some folks are used to, and in their MTV-gotta-have-it-last-week lifestyle they are too quick to assume the failing is with the OS instead of their lack of willingness to understand the powerful operating system they just installed.

<RantOn>
If folks want to continue driving a tricycle then they should stay with win98 or winMe and let us Harley riders have our fun! But don't tell us our bikes suck cause they can't manage to keep their Harley upright at the light!</RantOn>

   

[Rogue]

Almost all that has been written I have done. ToastyO gave me the alternate StarfleetOP.exe launcher. I'm at the current version of OP. The few things remaining are as follows.

You may have pointed out the one thing I am hesitant to do. I am at DX8.1b. Which says all drivers are certified and passes the diagnostic tests. I did download the Latest DirectX 9 sdk for installation on any MS operating system. That will be one of the last things in the progression as it is such a bear to roll back if not impossible without reinstalling the OS.

I did investigate all associated drivers for the mother board, video card and on board sound system. I don't really believe XP has anything to do with it. I'm just annoyed that I have to contact MS from now on if I want to reinstal the operating system. Which could become necessary with all the driver instal/unistal that I am doing. If I have to make a call at this point I would think that the possible problems would be...

-DirectX needs updating even though it passes the diagnostics.
-The ATI catalyst version is the culprit as I'm using one just high enough for DX8.
-The Nvidia chipset support drivers are at issue.
-Perhaps the RAM isn't the correct type for this mother board.
   I didn't build the system so that's a thin possibility. Very thin.

Now one thing I can say is the mother board drivers don't instal like the manual says they will. There is supposed to be an instal for the sound system that is either missing from the CD or some other odd explaination. The system is a Realtek ALC650 chipset. I downloaded the drivers for that system directly from Realtek and they seem to instal like the mother board manual indicates. However I cannot be sure that it will want to play on my mother board. There is no update at MSI's site for the audio as they are included in the all in one Nvidia set up. So darn it. Even disabling it and trying the Creative sound card didn't help. What conlusion can I draw? Perhaps an error was made setting up the drivers for this mother board. I did use both the drivers on the CD and what I downloaded from MSI but they are supposed to be the same. No difference was achieved.

I've spent a lot of time trying to make this fly and I'm putting it on hold for a few days to deal with other things that need my attention. Plus... I just want to blow stuff up after moding OP till it squeels with about everything I can mess with. Models, script, textures... I'm really happy with it but making it work on the new box remains to be pinned down. Either the magic mother board drivers will appear soon or perhaps DX9.0b will be the answer. I'll let you all know what progress has been made when I can make it.

Sincerely, thanks for the thoughtful answers as it is appreciated.

Till then... blow some stuff up... BOOM!          

[Cleaven]

Not quite the same problem but there was another person who solved a play problem by changing these sfc.ini settings:

[Mouse]
async=0
hwblit=1
 

[Captain KoraH]

I can put this info to use some day!

[Dogmatix!]

Quote:
The situation...

My dad loves building computers so much that he builds them for his kids and shows up with one as a gift. Yay dad. This is what he put together for me...

-MSI K7N2 delta L mother board. rev 1.3
-Athlon 2700
-ATI 9600 pro
-DirectX 8.1
-1/2 Gig of the fastest Ram it will support
-Realtek ALC650 on board sound
-Zoom 3025c modem
-Maxtor 40 gig of some sort.
-Windows XP pro, service pack 1

The problem is SFC OP wont run. Crash and freeze with no response to keyboard. As the sound is really choppy I would think think DirectX would be the problem. No go. I'm trying to run it at 8.1 which is what this rev. of XP comes with. Tried everything I could with the onboard sound. Tried disabling the onboard sound and using a SoundBlaster PCI 64 card that works with my other computer. Checked all associated drivers with audio/video to find any potential problem. Tried Win98 compatability mode. I installed the ATI card in my old machine (Win98) and it plays fine... I don't believe updating to DX9.1 is going to be useful and roll back is near impossible without rebuilding the OS.   I was going with the theory that if I made DirectX happy all would be well. The dialog and diagnostics seem to show that DX8.1 is in a happy place.

Any ideas?  

Try the SFC.INI "fix" that Cleaven lists and let us know.


I'm curious to know why you're concerned about rolling back your DirectX version if you upgrade to the lastest version (which is clearly supported, if not preferred, by your graphics hardware and the drivers you likely should be using for it.


I have ATI graphics adaptors in both my laptop and my desktop.  Both worked under DX8.1, both work using the latest drivers and the lastest version of DX.  My laptop is an Intel model.  My destop uses the same processor (XP 2700+) that you're using.  I'm also using onboard sound on my desktop PC.

Incidentally, I've never had to swap back and forth between video drivers to get games to work properly and I've never had a problem running any software title, game or otherwise.  Go figure.


My system specs are as follows:

Athlon XP 2700+  (Thermalright SLK-800/Vantec Tornado HSF, 12x195)
Asus A7N8X-Deluxe (1002A1 SATA "Uber" BIOS)
1024 MB (2x512 MB) Corsair XMS PC3200C2
Sapphire Radeon Atlantis 9700 Pro (Cat. 3.6)
ViewSonic VX900 19" LCD
80GB Maxtor (7200 RPM/ATA133)
Logitech MX-700 wireless mouse
Windows XP Pro (fully and completely updated including the lastest version of DX)




 

[RingWraith 413]

Did your 9600 require you to install DX9 first? My 9800 Pro did, and also the ATI Cat.  3.7 drivers are out.  I have WinXP Home and haven't had any problems playing EAW or OP, or using any of the Mods. Try loading DX9 first and then the Cat 3.7's. They are available as a complete file, which includes the Smartgart uninstaller, which you shouldn't have to use. Last thing, try installing the new Motherboard drivers, if available, before DX9 and Cat 3.7.  Lastly, check your bios settings.

                                                                       DIF_Wraith 413

[Rogue]

Well... I took another stab at it this evening. What did I get for the trouble? An unusable WidowsXP. The video completely fragged. Ya, I know, I did it... I didn't uninstal the right driver in the right order. Sooo... I'm gonna have to start from scratch again. Much anguish but a little amuzed.

I don't know why I bother with Backup. More often than not you can't get back to where you were. There goes the updates and now I must get Microsofts blessing and annointment again. Which I wont bother with till I get where I want to go this time. And, may I reitterate, sticks in my craw. I'm not pirating their software and I'm only using it on one box. I suppose I will have to appeal to Microstar if all remedies fail this time.



9/19/03 - Ya know what... It's the audio set up. Upon visiting the MSI user forum I've discovered everyone has some sort of issue with the audio drivers. This problem is rather infamous and has driven many half nuts. It remains to be seen if it can be solved. Even if I figured out the thing to do on my own it has been confirmed by other peoples experiences with this MB system. So, should I make my own T-shirt with the universal 'Sucker' logo on it? Subcaptioned 'I got bit by the MSI audio bug?

Thanks for all of the suggestions and I'll post no more till I bask in the warm glow of XP/OP goodness. Arghhh...

[Captain Krenn]

There is an audio bug with the K7N2 Delta L?

Well, thats disheartening since that is what I just got as a new motherboard.

<sigh>

Have any extras of that T-shirt hanging around?

 

[Rogue]

Quote:
There is an audio bug with the K7N2 Delta L?

Well, thats disheartening since that is what I just got as a new motherboard.

<sigh>

Have any extras of that T-shirt hanging around?

   

It might not be all that bad. Be sure to go to the user forum and find the thread on the K7N2G audio problems with the Realtek ACL650. No sense in doing what I did and coming up with the same answer on your own. I was not aware of the forum until after I had figured it out. It will give you a step by step through this little... difficulty. Oh heck, here's the link.

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/e_service/forum/thread.php?threadid=14649&boardid=14&styleid=1&sid=6e08ad3648e99f489401207263ed0635

Hope it saves you some grief. Just watch for the NVIDEA drivers to not instal all that you need (the sound manager interface simply will not instal and DirectX tells you your sound has no hardware buffers) and verify that DirectX is happy with your set up and you should be about there.

I still have yet to find out how to stop the paging system in XP from making my sound glitchy. After a little research it looks like I'll have to invest in more RAM. Still not sure about that but it seems XP likes to make pretty extensive use of what used to called swapfile. And, unlike Win98, conservativeswapfile=1 is not an option. If any of you know all about this please feel free to share the knowledge. I'm still an XP novice.    

[Captain Krenn]

Thanks for the link Rogue.

I'll try this tonight as I noticed some sound glitches when playing Anarchy Online.  At first I thought it was just bugs in the
game software.  

If this doesn't work, I guess I'll just have to invest in a SoundBlaster.

 

[Rogue]

Yer welcome. But... hold off on the soundblaster. I am experiencing some oddities in the IRQ assignment which I havn't nailed down yet. If you already have an appropriate sound card try that first before you spend money. If I figure the 'what to do' out I will let you know.  

[RingWraith 413]

 Do you have the bios assigning your IRQ's or WinXP? Try letting the bios assign IRQ's and see if that helps you.

                                                 DIF_Wraith 413

[Rogue]

Ringwraith, That's a great trick that my dad tipped me off to. I decided it was in my best interest to pull the sound card and use the onboard resources for audio. Thus far all is well. Except for how to tame the XP pagefile... which I know little about on this operating system. There has got to be a better way than unloading programs. Or, is the simple truth the fact I am going to have to up the RAM from 1/2 gig to a more friendly 1 gig?  

[RingWraith 413]

 512 of RAM should be plenty. I would run MSConfig and Services.MSC and use these to programs to keep non-essential programs from starting up. Especially "messenger", the MS built-in program, not MSN messenger. Those pop-up's will kill your online gaming experience. Try going to some of the computer websites for info on setting the pagefile.

                                                         DIF_Wraith 413

[Rogue]

Hmmm, I'll look into that. MSconfig I knew about but the services is something I'll have to spend some time understanding.

I have been able to get the game to run without hanging the system but the sound is jitter ridden. I really shouldn't be as the on board sound system (ACL650) is designed to be easy on resources and bandwidth. I have to lay the fault sqarely on MSI's doorstep. One should be able to count on the board drivers to be properly tested which certainly wasn't the case here. I still can't make up my mind whether to reject this mother board or let the drivers evolve into something that works up to expectations. This has not been a lot of fun.    

[RazalYllib]

another tip..

make pagefile min and max values the same.
also pagefile size should be 1.5 x the amount of ram u have

[Toasty0]

Quote:
Hmmm, I'll look into that. MSconfig I knew about but the services is something I'll have to spend some time understanding.

I have been able to get the game to run without hanging the system but the sound is jitter ridden. I really shouldn't be as the on board sound system (ACL650) is designed to be easy on resources and bandwidth. I have to lay the fault sqarely on MSI's doorstep. One should be able to count on the board drivers to be properly tested which certainly wasn't the case here. I still can't make up my mind whether to reject this mother board or let the drivers evolve into something that works up to expectations. This has not been a lot of fun.    

I don't remember if I asked you this already or not, but is this an upgrade from ME?  

[Rogue]

Na, it is an OEM disc for XP pro with service pack1 included. I don't have the diagnostic skills or software to know what the root cause is but can make an educated guess. The K7N2 delta L is infamous for the experience of being supplied with chipset drivers that were not really tested. What would you think of a DirectX9.0b dialog that tells you that you don't have hardware buffers for sound? And then you instal the sound system drivers from the chipset makers site (Realtek) and they then become enabled?

This computer was a gift from my father and will be treated with the due respect it deserves. But it has been a total headache. The specifications for the motherboard system looks so nice and is based on the NVIDEA nforce2 system. Which totaly outclasses what I have. Between the supplied drivers and perhaps the way the components integrate has insured some pretty odd behavior. If I can get the sound system to behave then all will be well. And, get this, disabling the sound chipset and installing a seperate sound card is marginaly worse... ah nuts... Not to mention the time invested.  

[RingWraith 413]

 Rogue, here's a site I found concerning tweaking WinXP. Some good info here.
http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=review&dId=324

                                                                     DIF_Wraith 413  

[Captain Krenn]

After visiting the alternate download page listed in the forum link my sound card is working find.

No stutters and the static crackling noise have dissapeared.

 

[Rogue]

Really? That's useful to know. You say you went with a sound card or did you enable the sound chipset? What graphics card are you using? Memory? I've read that the K7N2 is really picky about the RAM. The Realtek drivers havn't solved it for me. I wonder if I disabled DMA and forgot about it...  

[Captain Krenn]

I am using the sound card built onto the motherboard(chipset)

My video card is a Nvidia 5600 with 256 meg

memory is 2100 ddr  512 meg - 1 256 card and 2 128 cards

Is that any help?

I was having stuttering sound and music while playing Anarchy Online.  Also occasionally would get lots
of static sounds.  Almost like a radio that was slightly off station.

I added the new drivers and these problems stopped occuring.  

I intend to keep an eye(or at the very least an ear) on it.  But for now the
problem seems to be solved.

I am a man with little patience though, if it resurfaces, I'll go get an SB Audiology(? spelling)
and disable the on board sound card.

 

[Captain Krenn]

Almost forgot, there are a couple of links for getting the driver.  

The first one didn't work, sound card still kep messing up.  

This one however

http://www.pc-infozone.de/tiki-index.php

was the one that seems to have fixed it.

Look under the RealTek section

and download the one titled

  WDM V 3.48 Win 98GOLD/98SE/ME/2K/XP

it will download a self installing driver file

run the exe

after that, it seemed to be fine.

[Rogue]

Thank you for the information.

     I'm going to give it another shot this evening and see how it goes. I forgot to ask about the version of DirectX you are using and if you have run Starfleet Command OP or EAW yet. If I can get this system happy with everything I'll certainly be a happy boy.

     My father has completely different values for a computer than I do. There are two things he delights in. The first is finding a parking spot within spitting distance of the door. The other is a computer that boots in no time flat. It doesn't matter if it is stable or not but if that sucker boots in 2.7 seconds he giggles like a little girl.

    "Is that fast enough for ya, buddy?" says he.

     The reason he went MSI is for their reputation for overclocking. Hence, they make the best consumer mother boards under the sun. God, I love the man. He is an endless source of amusement. Another thing he does is pound the last key of any keyboard entry he makes. I am amazed that he hasn't driven the 'enter' key into the board yet. BAM!  

[Rogue]

Ah frig... so much for that. I just plain don't know here. The thing that sticks out as different between you and I is that video card. You have the Nvidea and I have the ATI.

At this point it will take components to troubleshoot. I'm going to take a break from it for a while and consider rebuilding the system from the ground up. I have a lot of components to work from and will concentrate on the bandwidth between the RAM and the processor. I don't have many requirements for a computer but it is required to run SFC. The one thing I can't get this one to do. Darn it!  

[Captain Krenn]

I am running Direct X  9.0b (4.09.0000.0902)

using windows xp pro with all the latest patches applied.

Not sure if thats of any help or not.

Krenn

System specs

Athalon XP 1800+
MSI K7N2 Delta L
Nvidia 5600 w/256 meg
512 Meg 2100 DDR
Seagate 40 gig HD
Maxtor 20 gig HD
52X Samsung CD drive
8X Hitachi DVD drive

Other devices(sound card, ethernet, ect...) are running off the mother board.

I used the drivers that I mentioned to run the sound card.  Did a fresh install of OP, then applied the patch before I ever ran the game.

Then I set the display settings to their hightest and run several single player missions. Everything worked great.

No sound stuttering or anything like that.  

Let me know if there is anything else I can tell you.  

...Now, if I can just find a way to bring down this Fed battleship with an XFF...

 

[Captain Krenn]

oh, forgot to see what revision the motherboard is.  

I'll check that tonight.

 

[Rogue]

Quote:
I am running Direct X  9.0b (4.09.0000.0902)

Krenn

System specs

Athalon XP 1800+
MSI K7N2 Delta L
Nvidia 5600 w/256 meg
512 Meg 2100 DDR
Seagate 40 gig HD
Maxtor 20 gig HD
52X Samsung CD drive
8X Hitachi DVD drive

Other devices(sound card, ethernet, ect...) are running off the mother board.

I used the drivers that I mentioned to run the sound card.  Did a fresh install of OP, then applied the patch before I ever ran the game.

Then I set the display settings to their hightest and run several single player missions. Everything worked great.

No sound stuttering or anything like that.  

Let me know if there is anything else I can tell you.  

...Now, if I can just find a way to bring down this Fed battleship with an XFF...

   

As a comparison to me...

DirectX 9.0b
Athalon 2100+
MSI K7N2 delta L version 1.3
ATI 9600 pro
512 Meg PC3200 DDR
Maxtor40gig
On board sound used - Realtek ACL650

OP patched to 2.5.4.12

That Nvidea you are running sticks out as the big difference. The RAM I am using from Crucial  should  be fully supported. I wouldn't be completely surprised that the Nvidea is a happy match for the Nvidea nforce2 chipset. Graphics adapters and their drivers are believed to be the cause of many a problems in some systems. I've tended to like ATI because often they are the first ones I've seen that write drivers for the the latest DirectX. Although... the only thing that seems to misbehave is the sound. Which is awful. And it still crashes in campaign play.

I truly appreciate you taking the time to list your system. That should show me that there are three possiblities.

1. ATI 9600
2. PC3200 DDR
3. Bad mother board.

Perhaps I can locate a patch at ATI or manualy set the interupts. Any way this goes I can tell you I have invested far too much time trying to make OP run on this machine. It has completey worn me out.

As a possible useful information... there are updated drivers at Nvidea's website for the Nforce2 chipset. They have worked the best of any for me so far. You still have to instal the Realtek drivers which are up to 3.49 now. But if everything works for you then it is probably wise to stick with what you have.

Peace, Bro  

[Captain Krenn]

No trouble at all, just wish I could be more help.

The only tests I made were with the skirmish missions.  

I will try to single player campaigns to see if there is a difference
then I'll let you know.

Can't imagine why there would be, but I'll give it a shot.

BTW Do you have any trouble with your CPU temp sensor?  

Mine is reading at 72 C.  But when I put my finger on the CPU
its not even warm.  Just curious if the CPU sensor is on the motherboard
or if its using the chips sensor.  Which ever one it is, its reading incorrectly.

Just wondering if you were having the same trouble or not.

peace

Krenn
 

[Rogue]

You have provided invaluable information. I certainly have more to go on than I did before.

As for as the temp sensor... I have no knowledge of the problem. I did remember reading about the issue on the MSI forums for misreadings with the utiliy that is provided. But that's all I can tell you. Everything works on the K7N2 - WinXP system (I'm on my old pooter at the moment) except, of all things, OP. Ah well... it's hard to garner any sympathy for a single game. But, it's the only game I really care about.

For what it is worth... the system hasn't cost me dime one thus far. If, for a modest investment, I can smooth out this problem then I will still be fortunate. Except for the year it has taken off of my life... kidding, really.

Again, thank you greatly for the information you provided. I knew I was at the point where it would take components to troubleshoot and what you have told me gets me there in part.

Peace.  

[KBF-JD]

Quote:
You have provided invaluable information. I certainly have more to go on than I did before.

As for as the temp sensor... I have no knowledge of the problem. I did remember reading about the issue on the MSI forums for misreadings with the utiliy that is provided. But that's all I can tell you. Everything works on the K7N2 - WinXP system (I'm on my old pooter at the moment) except, of all things, OP. Ah well... it's hard to garner any sympathy for a single game. But, it's the only game I really care about.

For what it is worth... the system hasn't cost me dime one thus far. If, for a modest investment, I can smooth out this problem then I will still be fortunate. Except for the year it has taken off of my life... kidding, really.

Again, thank you greatly for the information you provided. I knew I was at the point where it would take components to troubleshoot and what you have told me gets me there in part.

Peace.  

Sorry I did not see this earlier.  There is something that EVERYONE here has missed....

The POWER SUPPLY.

Athlons hate cheap power supplies.  I had a cheap power supply cause almost the exact same behavior you are seeing.

If your dad is like me, he probably is used to finding the cheapest case/ps he can find.  They usually work fine.  But can cause these problems...

I'd look into it.

jd  

[RingWraith 413]

 I see that your using PC3200 RAM. I just read in the new issue of Maximum PC magazine that running your RAM asynchronously of your CPU may not work very well with Nvidia chipset motherboards. Try setting the memory clock speed to match your CPU in the bios (133).  And JD makes a good point about power supplies. Antec, Vantec and Enermax all make very good PS's.

                                                     DIF_Wraith 413

[Captain Krenn]

Ran some tests last night in single player campaign, everthing worked AOK.

then did some gaming on the Dyna servers, no problems.  

I did have some darn MS message pop up and crash the game from the messenger service.

Stupid pop up window saying "Your computer is leaking your iP address to everyone on the web.  Log on our sight
...blah, blah, blah..."

Turned off messenger service

I hate people who try to exploit other people like that.

 

[Rogue]

Thank you folks for all of the thoughtful advice. I'm going to give it another go this weekend and see what happens.

Power supply? Perhaps... It is a moderate 350 Watt power supply. I have noticed a number of people running 450 Watts and more. I have thought to unplug other devices to lower the power drain but I shouldn't rule that out as a potential problem.

The PC3200 could certainly be the problem. I'll give the lower setting a try.

Captain Krenn... you are my hero this week. You system is a close parallel of mine and your willingness to test is very... very... appreciated. I understand about the messenger crud. I unloaded it from Windows set up if I understand the program correctly. Certainly something I would have little use for.  

[KBF-JD]

Quote:
Thank you folks for all of the thoughtful advice. I'm going to give it another go this weekend and see what happens.

Power supply? Perhaps... It is a moderate 350 Watt power supply. I have noticed a number of people running 450 Watts and more. I have thought to unplug other devices to lower the power drain but I shouldn't rule that out as a potential problem.

The PC3200 could certainly be the problem. I'll give the lower setting a try.

Captain Krenn... you are my hero this week. You system is a close parallel of mine and your willingness to test is very... very... appreciated. I understand about the messenger crud. I unloaded it from Windows set up if I understand the program correctly. Certainly something I would have little use for.    

Quality is more important than quanity(watts)

"And JD makes a good point about power supplies. Antec, Vantec and Enermax all make very good PS's. "

Make sure whatever you are running is AMD certified.  The ones listed above are fine.  I know you can find Antecs at compusa, they are a lot more expensive there, but you can find CompUSA anywhere.  You can save a lot of money if you find a local computer shop with good quality PSs and a good rep.  A lot of people are selling "P4" certified Power supply/case combos(at very cheap prices)  that are not really good for Athlon MB/cpu combos.  They work fine for P4s & Celerons.

Athlons often require more juice at some of the voltages that the P4 combos don't use that much.

If it's a software problem, your event log should have some info...  If it's it's a "freeze up, it is usually hardware...  usually

jd  

[Rogue]

OK, ya'all ready for this. It works!

It wasn't the sound.
It wasn't the memory.
Not XP.
Not the power supply.
Not the mother board.
Not the mother board drivers or any other driver for that matter.



It was never defective to begin with...



I just assumed you had to run it in compatability mode.



It won't run in compatability mode.



You may now have fun at my expense. Gosh, I hate to tell on myself. I don't know whether to feel really happy or really embarased. Let's just say both and leave it at that.



Feel free to talk amongst yourselves and be glad you didn't do what I did and waste so much of your time. Never the less... should someone else run into this... don't make the same assumptiom I made.  

[Captain Krenn]

Oops

Well, all this fussing with systems settings and getting new sound drivers fixed my sound problems, so something good did come from this

Glad you figured it out!

 

[Rogue]

Quote:
Oops

Well, all this fussing with systems settings and getting new sound drivers fixed my sound problems, so something good did come from this

Glad you figured it out!

   

Thank you.

Well... no man is a complete failure. They can always serve as a bad example.

I'm gald this little adventure may have tipped you off to the Realtek drivers sooner rather than later. For what it is worth, I am using the Nvidea version 2.45 driver suite I got from their website. And the Realtek 3.49 audio drivers works just fine. I still have stuff to do but all should go well now.

Happy hunting and thanks for your willingness to help.  

[Toasty0]

Quote:
OK, ya'all ready for this. It works!

It wasn't the sound.
It wasn't the memory.
Not XP.
Not the power supply.
Not the mother board.
Not the mother board drivers or any other driver for that matter.



It was never defective to begin with...



I just assumed you had to run it in compatability mode.



It won't run in compatability mode.



You may now have fun at my expense. Gosh, I hate to tell on myself. I don't know whether to feel really happy or really embarased. Let's just say both and leave it at that.



Feel free to talk amongst yourselves and be glad you didn't do what I did and waste so much of your time. Never the less... should someone else run into this... don't make the same assumptiom I made.  

Mawahahahaha...I'm glad all the above is true.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Now c'mon'here, so we can give you a knuggy!
   

[Rogue]

Quote:


Mawahahahaha...I'm glad all the above is true.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Now c'mon'here, so we can give you a knuggy!
     

Knuggy accepted in the spirit it was given.

I was so thrilled to finally hit on the problem that I had no reservations in admitting it. It was more important to tell my little story so someone else doesn't make the same mistake... Hey, it could happen... right?

I also offer you a special thanks ToastyO. I think it speaks well of our little game community that we do our part to help each other out. Now I've got a smoking new machine that has a lot more power than I had before. That  will  run OP. That's how much I like this game. If it won't run SFC then what good is it?