Topic: Tac intel design flaw workarounds

[IntgrSpin]

Hi,

Has anyone come up with any decent workarounds for those annoying off-screen tags (In EAW,OP) that completely blow tac intel by giving you the exact variants you are facing?

Or am I the only one it bothers?

The best I've come up with is to insert a bunch of blanks after the race letter, before the ship designation. For ex: F-CA becomes F-_____CA. It works but it's not ideal. Anything better out there?

For me, one of the best things about SFB on computer was the prospect of tac intel.  

[Pestalence]

The tags displayed is not a design flaw.. it is a game feature.. IE : Put in intentionally to enhance game play.. sorry you don't see it that way.

you could use F9 game mode.. it turns off HUD.. as in no shield graphics, no enemy ship info, no weapon status on screen... and also removes the tags...

you need to consider that if you are in a combat situation, your ship's short range scanners, and possibly long range scanners are active, thus you will know what ship, or variant, is in the sector with you.. thus the tags that give you their position relative to you.. I personally use F11 view as those tags also give me range and speed of the targets plus allows me to quickly right click on a ship that is out of my field of view...

F9 turns off everything concerning HUD to the right of the onscreen control pannel...

F10 is standard game view

F11 is advanced HUD giving range speed and distance of all targets on screen, plus space dust particles, astroids, etc, etc...

these work after ships appear on screen.

other than that, I don't know as editing anything in the shiplist will give Data Different error in GSA and will prevent you from logging onto the Dynaverse servers (shiplist CRC check failed).. you cant even add a spacemark into the shiplist unless everyone Downloads and installs the same shiplist that you have so that the CRC checks will pass, thus removing the Data Different error in game....

for single player, edit all you like, but I know of no work around to have them removed, as you scanners are doing their job by giving you the proper information of the ship you are facing... IE.. I know I'm up against a R-WE, however, unless I deep scan or launch a probe, i won't know where their hard points are located to set H&R....

just some thoughts.. sorry I couldn't help more.


 

[IntgrSpin]

Nah, it's a design flaw. It goes way back to the first release of the first SFC.

The way tac intel is supposed to work, is that at a certain distance you have the general hull type you are facing. At a certain closer distance you have info on whether shields are up or down (at this point they always appear either yellow or nothing). Then closer, you get general hardpoint info, but not specific (ie PH1 vs PH2). Harpoints are there, but blank. Closer yet, you get full detailed hardpoint data, but not damage state. Finally, you get info on full hardpoint damage state, and detailed shield damage state.

Damaged sensors decrease the ranges of detection, deep scan increases it. Probes blow it (I don't remember if they blew tac intel in SFB).

It's supposed to be a feature that you don't know what you are facing (to varying degees), until it gets close. The system works perfectly, except for the off-screen tags.  
 

[AdmiralFrey_XC]

Actually, you're forgetting a important aspect of ship registry and hostile ship signature recognition databasing.

All starships, regardless of their size, had transponders coded to a specific adaptive frequency that :

A. Immediately identified the ship to a friendly force
B. Prevented friendly ships from firing upon them while in combat
C. Provided the enemy with a base signature file that they could use for future recognition.

So, the point here is that unless your the first Captain to face a completely new ship no one has seen before, we're going to know the ship hull, and type due to the signature.

Clearer?
 

[jimmi7769]

All of the points are valid to a point, but intrgrspin is correct from an SFB -> SFC point of view.

You should be able to tell that that ship is a fed cruiser but not that it is actually a CC+ this kind of detail should only be determined at closer range not at range 100.  You should start with a course hull type then work your way down to the actual weapon readyness.

ex.  range 100   Klingon D class   50 ok it's a Rom KR class.....range 20   nope it's a KRB....10 uh oh, those S torps are ready.

At least thats how it works on paper.  the only flaw in the machine of SFC is in the tags which you can also see in the fleet control section.  I always look at this so I know what I'm up against.  Many folks shoot a probe to get this info but all you really have to do is look at the fleet control screen and see everything you are facing.

it is a flaw but a kind of insignificant one.

[AdmiralFrey_XC]

I know, I just like posting extraneous technogarble when I can !

LOL

:P

[3dot14]

Quote:
I always look at this so I know what I'm up against.  Many folks shoot a probe to get this info but all you really have to do is look at the fleet control screen and see everything you are facing.

it is a flaw but a kind of insignificant one.  

Well said. It is not the most "strategical" or "realistic" design, but it doesn't amount to anything worth fussing over.

Also, this has been mitigated by the amount of ships avaialable in the newest SFC (OP with OP+). Many of the old SL players can recite ship armament, arc, power, and bpv with ease in the SFC1 days (or even EAW), but with the introduction of OP+, the tags don't mean as much as they used to. We all know what a F-DD amounts to, but whos knows what is a F-DERR offhand?

and lastly, the kind of solution as suggested by intgrspin would only serve to confuse in large scale battles. (Coop Ace comes to mind).

So, IS, I guess you are the only one.

[IntgrSpin]

Hi,

Has anyone come up with any decent workarounds for those annoying off-screen tags (In EAW,OP) that completely blow tac intel by giving you the exact variants you are facing?

Or am I the only one it bothers?

The best I've come up with is to insert a bunch of blanks after the race letter, before the ship designation. For ex: F-CA becomes F-_____CA. It works but it's not ideal. Anything better out there?

For me, one of the best things about SFB on computer was the prospect of tac intel.  

[Pestalence]

The tags displayed is not a design flaw.. it is a game feature.. IE : Put in intentionally to enhance game play.. sorry you don't see it that way.

you could use F9 game mode.. it turns off HUD.. as in no shield graphics, no enemy ship info, no weapon status on screen... and also removes the tags...

you need to consider that if you are in a combat situation, your ship's short range scanners, and possibly long range scanners are active, thus you will know what ship, or variant, is in the sector with you.. thus the tags that give you their position relative to you.. I personally use F11 view as those tags also give me range and speed of the targets plus allows me to quickly right click on a ship that is out of my field of view...

F9 turns off everything concerning HUD to the right of the onscreen control pannel...

F10 is standard game view

F11 is advanced HUD giving range speed and distance of all targets on screen, plus space dust particles, astroids, etc, etc...

these work after ships appear on screen.

other than that, I don't know as editing anything in the shiplist will give Data Different error in GSA and will prevent you from logging onto the Dynaverse servers (shiplist CRC check failed).. you cant even add a spacemark into the shiplist unless everyone Downloads and installs the same shiplist that you have so that the CRC checks will pass, thus removing the Data Different error in game....

for single player, edit all you like, but I know of no work around to have them removed, as you scanners are doing their job by giving you the proper information of the ship you are facing... IE.. I know I'm up against a R-WE, however, unless I deep scan or launch a probe, i won't know where their hard points are located to set H&R....

just some thoughts.. sorry I couldn't help more.


 

[IntgrSpin]

Nah, it's a design flaw. It goes way back to the first release of the first SFC.

The way tac intel is supposed to work, is that at a certain distance you have the general hull type you are facing. At a certain closer distance you have info on whether shields are up or down (at this point they always appear either yellow or nothing). Then closer, you get general hardpoint info, but not specific (ie PH1 vs PH2). Harpoints are there, but blank. Closer yet, you get full detailed hardpoint data, but not damage state. Finally, you get info on full hardpoint damage state, and detailed shield damage state.

Damaged sensors decrease the ranges of detection, deep scan increases it. Probes blow it (I don't remember if they blew tac intel in SFB).

It's supposed to be a feature that you don't know what you are facing (to varying degees), until it gets close. The system works perfectly, except for the off-screen tags.  
 

[AdmiralFrey_XC]

Actually, you're forgetting a important aspect of ship registry and hostile ship signature recognition databasing.

All starships, regardless of their size, had transponders coded to a specific adaptive frequency that :

A. Immediately identified the ship to a friendly force
B. Prevented friendly ships from firing upon them while in combat
C. Provided the enemy with a base signature file that they could use for future recognition.

So, the point here is that unless your the first Captain to face a completely new ship no one has seen before, we're going to know the ship hull, and type due to the signature.

Clearer?
 

[jimmi7769]

All of the points are valid to a point, but intrgrspin is correct from an SFB -> SFC point of view.

You should be able to tell that that ship is a fed cruiser but not that it is actually a CC+ this kind of detail should only be determined at closer range not at range 100.  You should start with a course hull type then work your way down to the actual weapon readyness.

ex.  range 100   Klingon D class   50 ok it's a Rom KR class.....range 20   nope it's a KRB....10 uh oh, those S torps are ready.

At least thats how it works on paper.  the only flaw in the machine of SFC is in the tags which you can also see in the fleet control section.  I always look at this so I know what I'm up against.  Many folks shoot a probe to get this info but all you really have to do is look at the fleet control screen and see everything you are facing.

it is a flaw but a kind of insignificant one.

[AdmiralFrey_XC]

I know, I just like posting extraneous technogarble when I can !

LOL

:P

[3dot14]

Quote:
I always look at this so I know what I'm up against.  Many folks shoot a probe to get this info but all you really have to do is look at the fleet control screen and see everything you are facing.

it is a flaw but a kind of insignificant one.  

Well said. It is not the most "strategical" or "realistic" design, but it doesn't amount to anything worth fussing over.

Also, this has been mitigated by the amount of ships avaialable in the newest SFC (OP with OP+). Many of the old SL players can recite ship armament, arc, power, and bpv with ease in the SFC1 days (or even EAW), but with the introduction of OP+, the tags don't mean as much as they used to. We all know what a F-DD amounts to, but whos knows what is a F-DERR offhand?

and lastly, the kind of solution as suggested by intgrspin would only serve to confuse in large scale battles. (Coop Ace comes to mind).

So, IS, I guess you are the only one.