Topic: ?Patch Details of SFC3?

[Alidar Jarok]

I would have to guess no.

The patch requires a lot of work just to make sure there are no bugs.

The Cardassians would add a bunch of balance issues.  The fact that the Cardassians aren't currently in the game might hurt the chances even more.

[Teeth_03]

OK,what they "should" do bout that.1-if Taldren is too lazy to make their own Cardassian ships,use the ones already out there.2-If they cant do that,at least make the race selectable in SP Quickbattle and SP campaign.But lets say,not to screw things up in game,add another gf file that turns the non-playable races on or off to be playable.That way we can add the ships ourselves and save Taldren some trouble that they should have gone through before release.*raises voice*-I hope someone frome taldren reads this.  

[Pestalence]

FYI, the status of SFC 3, and all decisions for playable races, weapons, and how the ships act is not Taldren's fault...

SFC 3 was done as Work For Hire by Activision, and under supervision of Daniel Haggerty, (SFC 3 Producer, Activision, Inc.), Activision dictated what SFC 3 could and could not have and how much of how things would be in it, and they had the contracts to dictate release date, which to our understanding in the Beta and General community, Activision released early to gain sales due to the impending release of the movie, Nemisis....

Taldren is working of fixing bugs, and making tweaks to previous fixes, however, a patch will not be released until those fixes are complete, therefore a date is not set..

Also due to Activision holding all the contracts on SFC 3, Release date for a patch is their responsibility, and as such, Taldren's hands are tied until Activision releases a patch, or gives Taldren permission to release...

Further more, due to Activision's lawsuit against paramount/Viacom, any and all Trek related games and titles that Activision has on the market is on hold, with exception of telephone support...

If you are wondering if SFC 3 is being worked on.. the answer is yes it is... we the testers are testing builds and reporting problems back to Taldren as fast as possible, and the bug list is growing shorter... however, at times when 1 thing gets fixed, it may unbalance something else, thus we are taking our time testing builds thoroughly in multiple game modes, but anything amis in the testing is getting reported in detail as to help Taldren locate and correct the game code for found issues....

patching is a slow process when you have a listing.. but soon we will be down to 1 or 2 remaining issues that can be fixed in a manner of hours.

that's not the major problem.. the major problem is getting Activision to QA the game fixes, run the fixes through their Visioneers Beta team, then seeing if Activision is wanting to release or give Taldren permission to release....

so ultimately it is Activision's responsibility for game patches....

Every time Taldren makes a test build, they send to Activision... Activision has not sent any response back to Taldren for feedback on any test builds since the release of the Beta Patch...

so who is responsible for SFC 3's condition? Activision is...

And who is preventing incrimental patching to SFC 3? Activision is...

Who is responsible for QA on the patch for release to find any remaining issues? Activision is

and who is responsible for the early release of SFC 3? Activision is

and who is responsible for releasing patches? Activision is...

Taldren can not do anything with SFC 3 unless Activision approves it... patching process was already under way with Taldren and we have some test builds being tested internally, but until Activison QA and Beta's on their end, SFC 3 patch can not be released, unless Activision gives permission to release patches at Taldren's discresssion, which has not been done either...

Sorry guys, barking at Taldren for SFC 3 is not going to help.. Taldren can only take game suggestions to Activision to see if they are willing to allow Taldren to incorporate them... but unless Activision give Taldren patching rights, your barking at the wrong tree....

 

[Teeth_03]

Well, I can tell ya where Activision can stick it.But I wont.And if it seems I made any bad comments toward taldren,I'm sorry.But Activision needs a swift kick in the ass,ASAP.Truthfully,I only bug I see(which might be a big one,I don't know) is with the SP campaign missions freezing up.Other than that,anything stock should load.Now when it comes to modded ships,U know the really good lookin models and such,tend to freez up more.Thats probably another bug right.I don't play MP,so I don't know bout that.But,I'm not the only one that wants more varity when it comes to SFC3.Making some of the current non-playable races playable would do so.

[EmeraldEdge]

Didn't Taldren actually get extensions on SFC3, that's what I believe was said at some point.  It was said that they had longer to do this than any previous SFC title, including some 2 combined.  Also, according to ATVI they deferred to Taldren a lot on the game as Taldren "knew their fan base" better than ATVI.  This point was not disputed by Taldren publicly, unlike some other things.  Just some things that I picked up during the whole public fiasco.

I think my biggest query on the matter at this point would be, if SFC3 met expectations but did not exceed them, why did Taldren lose so much money on it (as Erik Bethke stated)?  

[TheSatyr]

Cardassians will not be added as a player or NPC race. Activision killed that idea once before...and if Taldren did it on their own they would be sued. And Activision isn't likely to change their minds about the Cardassians...especially when they are in a legal fight with Viacom.

Taldren can fix bugs and enhance what's already in the game through patches...but they cannot add new content.

 

[Teeth_03]

Bill Clinton must be president of Activision,cuz thats gay as hell.

[Toasty0]

Quote:
Didn't Taldren actually get extensions on SFC3, that's what I believe was said at some point.  It was said that they had longer to do this than any previous SFC title, including some 2 combined.  Also, according to ATVI they deferred to Taldren a lot on the game as Taldren "knew their fan base" better than ATVI.  This point was not disputed by Taldren publicly, unlike some other things.  Just some things that I picked up during the whole public fiasco.

I think my biggest query on the matter at this point would be, if SFC3 met expectations but did not exceed them, why did Taldren lose so much money on it (as Erik Bethke stated)?  

Emerald,

On both your points I am completely unaware of either of those things ever being said.

I cannot speak directly to the participation of some elements of ATVI due to NDA restrictions(if I could I would be able to show by example that you are fundamentally mistaken), but as to stating Erik said Taldren lost/is losing money on SFC3 you  may be taking something further than what was actually said. I believe Erik said that Taldren is doing work on SFC3 that is not being paid for by ATVI--not that Taldren is losing/lost money. Also, though I'm not sure, that may have been the case at the time he said, but could very well not be true now. The Taldren-ATVI-Paramount triangle is a corporate relationship that would truly awe even the likes of Henry Kissenger.

Of course I could be wrong.

Best,
Jerry
   

[EmeraldEdge]

Actually Erik gave an exact dollar amount that they had lost on the project (it was 3 with a lot of 0's after it, as in tens of thousands at least, if I remember right).  The others were said as well, although I don't desire to go dredge up the exact post (if they are even in existence).

As for ATVI's participation, I too am under NDA, but this was a public statement by ATVI, not my own assertion, in a thread participated in by both ATVI, Paramount, and Taldren, so they did have the opportunity to refute it, as they did a couple of other points.  As for proof that Taldren was bullied around and not allowed to have their way with anything, is there such evidence?  I certainly never saw any of it in the testers forum (I too am under NDA if you've got it I'd like to see it, perhaps in an PM or something), other than some rather derogatory comments about ATVI in general, post-blow out between the companies.  

[David Ferrell]

Quote:
 It was said that they had longer to do this than any previous SFC title, including some 2 combined.

By whom?  You?

Relative times are meaningless anyway as most things had to be redone for SFC3, they couldn't be reused
as in SFC2 and OP.

By all calculations, SFC3 was very profitable for Activision (as all SFC titles have been for
their respective publishers).

The Cardassians will not be playable in the patch.

Thanks,

DAve

 

[EmeraldEdge]

No, not by me, although like I said I no longer have the desire to back searching for the thread and the official company person who said it (although for some reason I think it was Erik, but I could be wrong about that).  It was said prior to release, during the pre-release hype though, just so you know.  

[David Ferrell]

If it was said by a Taldren employee, it was misleading due to factors I can't discuss, if not factually incorrect.

Thanks,

Dave

[David Ferrell]

BTW:

There were items that Activision micro-managed to death and others that
were left up to Taldren.  You better believe that Activision did *approve* of
everything done, lest they would be sitting on our heads still.

Thanks,

Dave  

[EmeraldEdge]

Quote:
If it was said by a Taldren employee, it was misleading due to factors I can't discuss, if not factually incorrect.

Thanks,

Dave  

For some reason I'm thinkin' it was during one of the pre-release things when Erik was talking about what a pleasure it was to work with ATVI, and how sweet a deal Taldren got to make SFC3.  

As for the other stuff, I think ATVI approving of everything kind of goes without saying, as if they didn't, I'm sure they would have jumped on it.  They mearly stated that they deferred to Taldren on a great many things because Taldren knew the fan base much better than thay did.  

[Mr. Hypergol]

 

Quote:
 By all calculations, SFC3 was very profitable for Activision (as all SFC titles have been for
their respective publishers).

Interesting.  If this is in deed the case, then the "perception" that the series is dead would seem to be a myth.  It seems to me that if every publisher has made money on their SFC title then, from a future publisher's perspective anyway (whoever that ends up being), there IS an incentive to make more SFC games.  Am I making sense here?  Or perhaps the size of the profit is more of a concern than just whether or not a profit was made.

 

Quote:
 If it was said by a Taldren employee, it was misleading due to factors I can't discuss, if not factually incorrect.
 

I recall Erik saying in a previous post (which was also deleted a while ago) that Taldren lost 300,000 dollars on SFC3.  If that is indeed NOT the case, then why would Erik imply that "Taldren's future is along another path" (or something like that).  The implication being that Taldren was done with SFC.

I can understand being burned out on SFC and wanting to do other projects, but I hope this doesn't mean Taldren has ruled out making another SFC game sometime down the road.  I also understand Erik's concern with "having all your eggs in one basket".   It's obviously important to expand into other gaming genre's for the company's long term potential.

But still.......I have to wonder.........if everyone's making money on SFC, why not another title?  Might I suggest SFC4 Galaxies at War?  It DOES have a nice ring to it.
   

[TarMinyatur]

Quote:
 
I recall Erik saying in a previous post (which was also deleted a while ago) that Taldren lost 300,000 dollars on SFC3.  If that is indeed NOT the case, then why would Erik imply that "Taldren's future is along another path" (or something like that).  The implication being that Taldren was done with SFC.

I recall this as well...$300,000 loss for Taldren. Activision made money on SFC3 though.  

[Alidar Jarok]

Quote:
No, not by me, although like I said I no longer have the desire to back searching for the thread and the official company person who said it (although for some reason I think it was Erik, but I could be wrong about that).  It was said prior to release, during the pre-release hype though, just so you know.    

I think I remember something about the last month or so of the development process being devoted to bug fixes.

[NannerSlug]

the 300k was for work on the beta patch if i remember correctly

please keep in mind that the developer makes the game and does not recieve a profit from it.. the publisher does.. it sorta works like this.

taldren makes make and atvi pays taldren during mile stones/ game completion. -> game goes to market and makes what ever ammount of money.  that money solely goes to the publisher.

this is how taldren could lose money, but atvi make a bundle on it. this is why publishers cherry pick deals.. they pay developers to make games which make them money past the production cost of the game.

does that make sense?

that all said, i bet that taldren is exhausted with sfc series and needed to open its self up a bit and expand on things. it would be a good thing too.. if they didnt, and this lawsuit happened (trek thing), me thinks the company would be closing its doors.