Topic: The TRUTH about TALDREN and SFC3 (Read 24844 times)

ThatGuy · « **on:** August 13, 2003, 01:14:36 am »

This is my first post and it may get me banned, actually I expect it. But if one person reads this, then I'll be happy. Please remember that this is just an OPINION, but if you feel the need to censor, then do your worst, mods! Just remember that I bought this game, played it, and loved it! But the bugs kill it! Really, I DO love this game, and I wish that it wasn't released the way it was.

Ahhhh, SFC3, Taldren's afterthought of a product. SFC3 is a crashing, hanging, progression breaking, and overall buggy mess of a game. I read posts by countless users like "Why is my game crashing? Should I reinstall? Format Windows? Update drivers? etc etc etc". This is the solution to all of your problems. STOP PLAYING THIS GAME. Go play a real product that is programmed competently and does not crash every 5 seconds.

The funniest thing about these people is that SOMEHOW they have been TRICKED into thinking that their machine is to blame for these problems. IT IS NOT YOUR MACHINE. It is the GAME! These people are playing SFC3 w/ Windows9x/XP/2K/ME, 512 MB ram, Geforce 4's, and other uber equipment. Others are playing with lesser machines. THE BUGS PREVAIL, NO MATTER WHAT CONFIG THEY HAVE. And then these poor people post on this board asking for help, and the local FANBOYS tell them to "Reinstall", Install DX9b, Install older vid card drivers, and other POINTLESS suggestions; which just send these poor suckers on another wild goose chase. To the few of you that can play SFC3 without problems, KUDOS. You are a lucky few.

One more thing, don't go on about the state of SFC3 being activision's fault. Ultimately the state of the game is the responsibility of the developer, NOT THE PUBLISHER. Also, why do you think Taldren has bounced around between different publishers for its games? Ask the fanboys, and its because the publishers sucked. Ask anyone that knows anything about the industry, and they will tell you that its because Taldren's PRODUCTS ARE NOT UP TO PAR. And where has that landed them? With a second rate publisher like Majesco. Admit it, it's true.

In closing, my words may hurt, but they are true.

Flame on, fanboys, and Taldren, Good Luck with Black9, I PRAY that you prove me wrong with a solid demo!

ActiveX · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:20:21 am »

Actually Interplay went out of business...so Taldren had little choice...

ThatGuy · « **Reply #2 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:28:56 am »

Ahhh, I stand (somewhat) corrected on that point, but keep in mind, they are now employed by MAJESCO (bleahh). And alas, SFC3 still crashes and locks people out of dynaverse play due to a CDKEY error, which is a BUG. Agreed?

ActiveX · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:35:30 am »

You present valid points...

SFC2 is just now getting the long awaited patch...

SFC Bennie · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2003, 02:17:47 am »

Quote:

One more thing, don't go on about the state of SFC3 being activision's fault. Ultimately the state of the game is the responsibility of the developer, NOT THE PUBLISHER.

Absolutely incorrect. Ultimately, the buck stops at the top, and the top is the publisher, not the developer; they're the people who set the deadlines and sign the cheques. They supervise the project at all stages, which is *especially * true of Activision, who by all accounts had a much larger creative and supervisory role on the project than is normal for the industry.

Scott Bennie

Tremok · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2003, 08:20:01 am »

Relatively speaking, SFC3 is not a buggy game.

jimmi7769 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2003, 09:56:16 am »

And I just have to say this. While I bought the game and played it al the way through and have played it plenty online, I do prefer SFC2/OP to 3. # is a fine game and I never had any of the problems you list. Never once got locked out of D3 due to some CDkey error and have had relatively few bug problems or lock ups or crashes. I do believe a lot of the problems are due to instabilities on the machine the game is running on which are brought out by the game code. I try to keep my PC as clean as possible and rarely have all of the lock ups and crashes others seem to have.

If your solution to the problem is to quit playing then so be it. I'm not playing it at the moment either, but will probably play it again at a later date once I get tired of Freelancer again.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2003, 10:41:04 am »

I have the most piece of crap machine possible. 500 mhz PIII, 256mb ram (and that's only P133 speed ram, hehe), Rage Xpert128 graphics card with only 16 mb and I never had any of these problems described above. I dont even think I meet the minimum requirements for the game. I just had to turn down all the graphic sliders and take out all the sparkly stuff and the game was perfectly playable. So yes, it is your system. I suggest you see how much space you have on your hard drive. You should have soemthing like 700 megs clear on it to run correctly in my experience.

quircus · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:52:47 pm »

PC133 RAM? Lucky. I have decent add-ons to my machine, but because it is alsmot 3 years old, the RAM works at PC100 even though I have 512MB of it. I have a 64MB video card, and a 700MHz Athlon. Game runs fine...except teh odd exception error...but it takes SOOO LONG to load with MODs.

Also, my new ATA133 Hard Drive is being forced to run at ATA66 speed because of motherboard limitations. I need a new motherboard....

Mike H · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2003, 04:35:44 pm »

I have visited the Taldren boards for many years. I have seen many pointless threads in the forums. This thread you started is one of them.

All SFC games have had bugs in them. There is virtually no such thing as a 100% bug-free product anymore. The complexity of modern computer games and the computer game business dictate that bugs are no longer an "if" thing, but more realistically "how many?" and "how bad". If that is unacceptable to you as a consumer, remember that your disposable income is your strongest voice to the game companies. If you think the product is crap, buy something else! Read the game reviews, talk to other players. Be a SMART gamer! There is lots and lots of crap out there on the game shelves all around the world. It is a very satisfying thing when you find that you got a great game for your hard-earned money. I have yet to be dissatisfied with any of my Taldren-designed SFC games, and I think Taldren should be proud of their work and their customer relations.

I would say few SFC bugs have been major show-stoppers. Yes, there is a small percentage of people like you who appear to be having some compatibility issues, but you need to look at the big picture: There are thousands of people playing SFC who aren't having these problems. So does that mean that Taldren and their game(s) is worthless? I think not. Do you have absolutely ZERO problems with all other games on your system? I would be very skeptical if you said yes to this.

Most of the squawking I have seen on these forums relate to game design choices, not bad software. I have played computer games for about 20 years now, and as far as game developers go, I feel Taldren is above average when it comes to maintaining a dialogue with their customers (until people started getting rather nasty to them on here) and I feel they support their products reasonably well, with SFC3 being the black sheep.

I think getting in bed with Activision to make SFC3 was a poor decision on Taldren's part, but hindsight is 20-20. I have never been impressed with Activision's handling of the Star Trek license; their anal retentive posture towards game patching and their after-the-sale customer satisfaction is a sad example of poor public relations. If you compare the post-retail patching history of SFC1, SFC2, and SFCOP to the handling of SFC3, it is hard to point the finger at Taldren. Heck, they just released another fine patch for Orion Pirates, a game whose shelf life has long since passed! I appreciate that. Compare that to the SFC3 situation: Activision has 100% control on when and if a patch will be released. Although Activision officially denies that a "one patch policy" exists, that indeed appears to be the case with a great many recent games they have released. Clearly that is not only a purely profit-driven decision, but also an insult to real customer service. Personally, I would be delighted to see Activision be relieved of the Trek license; they have been NO savior of the ST game franchise. The down side to this, of course, is what will happen to the future of Trek games?

Mike

Deviak · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2003, 04:53:03 pm »

Just to..ummm..give you an example of not being the dev's fault but the whole thing really stops at the publisher....Galaxy Andromeda formerly known as Imperium Galactica 3. Mithis Games had almost completed the game..just a few MP codes and stability issues to plug in..CDV decided to cancel it. Nuff said.

3dot14 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 13, 2003, 05:29:18 pm »

Well it just isn't an SFC game without a post like this. (ISPEAKTHETRUTH, anyone?).

But beyond that, I have no comment on this thread one way or another... (I hope I won't fuel more flames)

SFC Bennie · « **Reply #19 on:** August 13, 2003, 05:48:09 pm »

Probably.

I just wish people wouldn't misspell "TROLLTH" as "TRUTH" so damn often. I know they have similar sounds, but the use of upper caps is a dead giveaway.

Scott Bennie

Tulwar · « **Reply #20 on:** August 13, 2003, 06:21:15 pm »

SFC3 is completely Activision's falt. Rushing the release of a game to meet the release date of a movie hardly appears to be Taldren's style. Activision? Their aggressive marketing strategy says it all. Death to Activision! Long live Taldren!

James Formo · « **Reply #23 on:** August 13, 2003, 11:00:48 pm »

Taldren owns in my book. They back there products up. All games have bugs. Thats because there are a gazillion possible computer hardware configuations. No game will ever be bug free cause of this. Even so I still prefer SFC2/OP. It simply has more variety with races and I like the fact that each race has a unique interface.

grave · « **Reply #24 on:** August 14, 2003, 03:43:14 am »

shees! if i were to have listened to the fourms id of never got any of the SFC games( ive been playsing this serise sence SFC1 and i love the hole lot of em... cept the FPS ones.) now dont get me rong i do think that SFC3 has lots of bugs BUT i run an old 500mzh pIII with a nvida gforce 2 with 64megs and a hole wopping 256mgs pc133 and the games all work great. the only problem i have noticed is that SFC3 thakes lots of time to load and runs slow.... BUT i solved that by going through every model and delieting all the glow maps and vola game runs sweet! well thats my 2 cents worth

Phaser · « **Reply #25 on:** August 14, 2003, 04:28:59 am »

game runs fine for me too but i caint log onto d3, when i first bought the game i was able but now when i log on to d3 it goes threw but i dont ever see any servers this has been going on for months now .

i do think sfc3 blows chunks in my opinion compared to sfc2 and OP which i love now that they have been patched great job guys,i might as well just take my copy of sfc3 and make it a drink coaster..

[Merc]-Phaser

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #28 on:** August 14, 2003, 06:22:21 am »

In my day we didn't have anything so new-fangled as all that. We gathered a bunch of people up from the hills ,dressed them up like the lights in the sky, or "ships" as some called them, and gave them clubs and rocks of various sizes. They would walk around and throw the rocks at eachother. The big trouble was lack of "damage control" after a "critical hit", pretty much just did your "ship" in. Sometimes it would leave your "ship" drifting aimlessly, having suffered irreparable damage to the "sensors" and "main computer".

Tarrek · « **Reply #29 on:** August 14, 2003, 07:34:30 am »

Well said

Toasty0 · « **Reply #33 on:** August 16, 2003, 12:14:52 am »

So I played SFC on this

You folks do remember that game, don'ch?

Best,
Jerry

David Ferrell · « **Reply #36 on:** August 20, 2003, 07:30:52 pm »

And I thought I had it rough! Here's a picture of my current
debugging machine for OP:

Thanks,

Dave

SFC Bennie · « **Reply #37 on:** August 20, 2003, 07:51:00 pm »

Now *that's* fricking cool, Dave.

Scott Bennie

ActiveX · « **Reply #38 on:** August 20, 2003, 08:44:49 pm »

Holy...

Doing SFC3 on a Genesis?

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #39 on:** August 20, 2003, 10:20:39 pm »

Coleco-Vision!!! all right, ya know how to pick your systems. I've got three console systems, two of which were bought before Computers were a household appliance, and the third, well we got that one b/c we only had one computer at the time and we were always fighting over it. The Three systems are, Coleco-Vision, the Nintendo Entertainment System and the N64. Of the three systems, only the Coleco-Vision works flawlessly whenever we ask it to, the NES works only after constant shifting and praying, while the N64 is prone to randomly shutting itself off in the middle of a game. The only problem with the CV is that we only have one operational controller, and its about to give up a ghost...i hope i can find some reliable controllers shortly, it would be a shame to give up that wonderful system.

Anyway, back on Topic...

Taldren does have its flaws, ill be the first to admit it. Unfortunatly the entity that bears the most responsibilty for the SFC3 fiasco is Activision. Activision set an unrealistic release date, and then forced Taldren to submit every patch they wanted to send out to their play testers, who then send it back to Taldren saying that it still hasnt fixed everything. If anyone else was running the show, Taldren would have released 3 or 4 patches by now, and the game would be 99% playable. The Only real problems i have with it now is it taking up excessive amount of system memory upon the launching of a shuttlecraft or the dropping of a mine. The Neutral Zone patch took care of the shuttle craft problem by turning shuttles into PFs and giving them only to a select few ships. though the mine issue is still a problem, its not nearly as bad as a shuttle launch. Frankly, i wish ATVI would let the patch get released, so that Taldren can begin working on the stuff that was cut out so that SFC3 would meet the publicity deadline. And as for ATVI filing a lawsuit against Viacom...tell me, does anyone remember seeing ANY advertisments for SFC3? the only one i saw was actually a preview for the game inside of a computer gaming magazine. And if I wasnt actively looking for the SFC2:EaW patch 2036 I prolly wouldnt have even known to look for that SFC3 was going to be coming out. I dont just wander in to a local computer software store and look at the newest releases, i just get the game that i was looking for and then get out. If ATVI knows whats good for them, they will let the patch out before the middile of next month, or they will never be able to get it out. Half Life 2, third week of September!!!

Dash Jones · « **Reply #40 on:** August 21, 2003, 09:54:53 am »

Whoa, I didn't even know the the Jaguar possessed the specs for OP! Doesn't it lack a 3d card!

Cool pic.

David Ferrell · « **Reply #41 on:** August 21, 2003, 12:04:25 pm »

Just to make sure everyone knows, the picture was a joke in keeping
with the others of this thread.

Thanks,

Dave

Captain Ron · « **Reply #42 on:** August 21, 2003, 12:26:19 pm »

Too bad if it was designed for a consol at least it would work for everyone as they all would have have the same HW and firmware. Not to mention M$ would not be involved.

As for this thread...
I could have sworn that ThatGuy did this for SFC2 and OP as well. Same arguement just a few name changes. I still laugh at ppl that do this as expecting games to work prefectly on everyones hardware/software is a pipe dream. M$ OSs' have been know to not install properly 3 out of 5 times, and this to the fact that if you add HW to your system you can over-write DLLs and other important things that might not contain everything the last one had. M$ wrote a OPEN OS and anyone developing software has been known to dread this. Heck most ppl can not even read and understand the specs posted on the outside of the box, so big surprise here when it doesn't work.

I could go on but why?
Oh, here is one for you when was the last time you patched your OS?
If you haven't been doing that then you will have all sorts of troubles!

AdmiralFrey_XC · « **Reply #44 on:** August 21, 2003, 03:12:13 pm »

Well !

I've got ya all beat!

I recompiled the entire code into B.A.S.I.C. and machine language subroutines that run on my VIC 20 !!!

Well, I will admit, you have to have that smokin' 12 K expander cartridge to get the compiler to run, but hey!

I'd let ya'll know how it looked, but it's still compiling.

(Three hours later)

Still compiling.......

(three days later)

still.....compiling........

(three weeks later)

still........compiling.....wait , what's that smoke?

Oh.

Toasty0 · « **Reply #46 on:** August 21, 2003, 03:42:14 pm »

Be sure and compile a 51/2" floppy for me too Frey!

I need it for my C64.

Best,
Jerry

James Formo · « **Reply #50 on:** August 21, 2003, 05:27:28 pm »

[quote
You don't need to delete the glows if you have the latest version of the DW mod, I removed the stupid looking things myself....

I like the glows. Just started modding for SFC3. Glows can be good. They just need to be scaled down so they don't show thru the hulls and stuff.

Hey Pelican. I got your 5 pack of missions from SFC3. Big

There fantastic. I'd get your whole mod only my 56k is a deterrant

Have you got missions in your big mod that are not in that 5 pack? If so could you do up just a mission pack for us 56k ers

I 'd like to see a seperate small download with just your spec files and 9 race map as well. As I could add in my own ships or just fill in with some stock ones.

Back to SFC3 topic. Try comparing SFC3 to SFC2/OP out of the box. SFC3 will just get better and better cause of all the modders. Anyways I like SFC3. It looks way better than SFC2. You can't really tell by screenshots either. The ships just look so much clearer. It runs perfect on my 800 mhz AMD with only 128 mb RAM. ViperII card. Only thing is sometimes the background scenery doesn't render. I was able to modify the scenery models so that it works with my vid card.

Like I said performance in game is flawless. Only thing is at the supply/refit/mission screen it putters and hangs. OP use to do that. I just installed OP latest patch and that is fixed. I believe that SFC3 will get patched and one day be thought of as 1 of the best of the series.

A lot of what I read people whining about SFC3 in the forum just isn't true. Some said the ships banked too much. Only the frigates bank a lot. Get up to a DN and it will barely turn at all

Really only 1 thing I say needs improvement. The AI just doesn't seem too bright. In its use of where it cloaks and uncloaks. Even its HET and mine laying manuevers seem pointless. SFC2/OP AI is much better- but that was thru a few patches. I mean, I took out a warbird without a scratch in a Norway aided by a Intrepid. The only solution the AI has to even it up is outnumber your destroyer with 2 CA's and a CL. Then its pointless to stick around.

James Formo · « **Reply #51 on:** August 21, 2003, 09:50:19 pm »

Another point on the glows as I just found how to make mine more realistic. Most people have the alpha on there glows at the default 255 or so. THis is ok for buzzards but for long areas like the length of a nacel. Set the alpha at 55. This will diffuse it so you don't get that bright round ball look. You can actually increase the scale of the glows and lower the alpha and they look better. I hav't found how to adjust the alpha in the modtools yet so I just make note of which groups I need to lower and open the gf in word and edit it there. There thats my 2 cents or is it a nickel. I fully understand though, if you get rid of them so the game runs better for ya

Dogmatix! · « **Reply #53 on:** August 22, 2003, 03:47:30 pm »

Damn..I remember my big arsed floppy drive on my Atari 800....and that infernal tape drive. Let's see...the command to load a proggie from tape was...

"CLOAD" ...and after 10-15 minutes, you'ld be rewarded with something like "program load failed."

...and there was nothing like "dubbing" tapes to swap programs. That seems kinda funny in retrospect. Needless to say, I didn't use my tape drive much.

Everyone remember buying disks and using a hole punch to cut out a notch on the other side of the floppy so you could flip it over and double its capacity? heheh...

Green · « **Reply #56 on:** August 22, 2003, 06:19:50 pm »

43,362,810 more of these puppies and I'll be rockin'. There is no screen, but I can kind of get a print out of what is happening.

Green · « **Reply #59 on:** August 22, 2003, 11:03:09 pm »

Ah, crud ... I forgot about 3.0+. Make that 73,362,810 more of these damn cards to go through ... but don't expect the models to be in there. We'd have to cut down the entire Northwest to get enough cards.

As for Bonk's SFB mod w/ models ... no.

Yyrkoon · « **Reply #60 on:** August 23, 2003, 01:20:08 am »

The original post was right on! As I type this, (on my other cumputer) The game crashed to desktop, and now the Dynacrap will not recognize my account so I can relogin, and if I try to open a new one it will not connect to that server either.

If you really think this game is not a nightmare and really belive it is a a good solid game for the money, then your just plain ignorant!!!

Oh yea and before you all think I called you all stupid look up the word ignorant.

Ps if you needed to look up the word ignorant your stupid.

Yyrkoon · « **Reply #63 on:** August 23, 2003, 05:37:11 pm »

"Ignorant is not knowing the difference between "your" and the contraction "you're" for your are. "

Ah when we are miffed and can not think up better ways to attack, then we resort to personal attacks on grammer and spelling.... Your superior intelligence and wit, have once again won the day for you.

Now I have seen the way of my folley and will be nice so Talderns game work better. Why didn't you just say so from the start. Taldren should put this in the manuals.

It should be in the technical help section:

1. If you have any problem with our game just be nice, and it will soon run smoothly without error! Thanks your for your money!

The New Guy · « **Reply #65 on:** August 30, 2003, 10:13:05 am »

honestly, I didn't read through all the posts (though I took a long look to read the blue screen of death

) and on the original topic, my version is un patched,,, no patch at all, and i've had no problems to speak of, except for two crashes, one caused by MY editing of the shiplist, and the other during the klingon mission wit hthe rakellian freighters,,, but I've got around both. I'd have to say SFC3 is a pretty good friggen game, and the only thing I didn't like, was the loss of Missles, and some of the races. and ya know, I still believe, if you tried hard enough you could put missles back in,,,, i've seen alot of stufff in the strings and stufff,,, just a thought.

can't remember much of my first computer,,,, except it had a 6 meg hard drive,,, and I played Wolfenstein 3D, and Doom on it,,, and a little game called Syndicate,,, anyone else heard of that?

ThatGuy · « **Reply #67 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:14:36 am »

This is my first post and it may get me banned, actually I expect it. But if one person reads this, then I'll be happy. Please remember that this is just an OPINION, but if you feel the need to censor, then do your worst, mods! Just remember that I bought this game, played it, and loved it! But the bugs kill it! Really, I DO love this game, and I wish that it wasn't released the way it was.

Ahhhh, SFC3, Taldren's afterthought of a product. SFC3 is a crashing, hanging, progression breaking, and overall buggy mess of a game. I read posts by countless users like "Why is my game crashing? Should I reinstall? Format Windows? Update drivers? etc etc etc". This is the solution to all of your problems. STOP PLAYING THIS GAME. Go play a real product that is programmed competently and does not crash every 5 seconds.

The funniest thing about these people is that SOMEHOW they have been TRICKED into thinking that their machine is to blame for these problems. IT IS NOT YOUR MACHINE. It is the GAME! These people are playing SFC3 w/ Windows9x/XP/2K/ME, 512 MB ram, Geforce 4's, and other uber equipment. Others are playing with lesser machines. THE BUGS PREVAIL, NO MATTER WHAT CONFIG THEY HAVE. And then these poor people post on this board asking for help, and the local FANBOYS tell them to "Reinstall", Install DX9b, Install older vid card drivers, and other POINTLESS suggestions; which just send these poor suckers on another wild goose chase. To the few of you that can play SFC3 without problems, KUDOS. You are a lucky few.

One more thing, don't go on about the state of SFC3 being activision's fault. Ultimately the state of the game is the responsibility of the developer, NOT THE PUBLISHER. Also, why do you think Taldren has bounced around between different publishers for its games? Ask the fanboys, and its because the publishers sucked. Ask anyone that knows anything about the industry, and they will tell you that its because Taldren's PRODUCTS ARE NOT UP TO PAR. And where has that landed them? With a second rate publisher like Majesco. Admit it, it's true.

In closing, my words may hurt, but they are true.

Flame on, fanboys, and Taldren, Good Luck with Black9, I PRAY that you prove me wrong with a solid demo!

ActiveX · « **Reply #68 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:20:21 am »

Actually Interplay went out of business...so Taldren had little choice...

ThatGuy · « **Reply #69 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:28:56 am »

Ahhh, I stand (somewhat) corrected on that point, but keep in mind, they are now employed by MAJESCO (bleahh). And alas, SFC3 still crashes and locks people out of dynaverse play due to a CDKEY error, which is a BUG. Agreed?

ActiveX · « **Reply #70 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:35:30 am »

You present valid points...

SFC2 is just now getting the long awaited patch...

Tremok · « **Reply #73 on:** August 13, 2003, 08:20:01 am »

Relatively speaking, SFC3 is not a buggy game.

jimmi7769 · « **Reply #74 on:** August 13, 2003, 09:56:16 am »

And I just have to say this. While I bought the game and played it al the way through and have played it plenty online, I do prefer SFC2/OP to 3. # is a fine game and I never had any of the problems you list. Never once got locked out of D3 due to some CDkey error and have had relatively few bug problems or lock ups or crashes. I do believe a lot of the problems are due to instabilities on the machine the game is running on which are brought out by the game code. I try to keep my PC as clean as possible and rarely have all of the lock ups and crashes others seem to have.

If your solution to the problem is to quit playing then so be it. I'm not playing it at the moment either, but will probably play it again at a later date once I get tired of Freelancer again.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #76 on:** August 13, 2003, 10:41:04 am »

I have the most piece of crap machine possible. 500 mhz PIII, 256mb ram (and that's only P133 speed ram, hehe), Rage Xpert128 graphics card with only 16 mb and I never had any of these problems described above. I dont even think I meet the minimum requirements for the game. I just had to turn down all the graphic sliders and take out all the sparkly stuff and the game was perfectly playable. So yes, it is your system. I suggest you see how much space you have on your hard drive. You should have soemthing like 700 megs clear on it to run correctly in my experience.

quircus · « **Reply #79 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:52:47 pm »

PC133 RAM? Lucky. I have decent add-ons to my machine, but because it is alsmot 3 years old, the RAM works at PC100 even though I have 512MB of it. I have a 64MB video card, and a 700MHz Athlon. Game runs fine...except teh odd exception error...but it takes SOOO LONG to load with MODs.

Also, my new ATA133 Hard Drive is being forced to run at ATA66 speed because of motherboard limitations. I need a new motherboard....

Mike H · « **Reply #81 on:** August 13, 2003, 04:35:44 pm »

I have visited the Taldren boards for many years. I have seen many pointless threads in the forums. This thread you started is one of them.

All SFC games have had bugs in them. There is virtually no such thing as a 100% bug-free product anymore. The complexity of modern computer games and the computer game business dictate that bugs are no longer an "if" thing, but more realistically "how many?" and "how bad". If that is unacceptable to you as a consumer, remember that your disposable income is your strongest voice to the game companies. If you think the product is crap, buy something else! Read the game reviews, talk to other players. Be a SMART gamer! There is lots and lots of crap out there on the game shelves all around the world. It is a very satisfying thing when you find that you got a great game for your hard-earned money. I have yet to be dissatisfied with any of my Taldren-designed SFC games, and I think Taldren should be proud of their work and their customer relations.

I would say few SFC bugs have been major show-stoppers. Yes, there is a small percentage of people like you who appear to be having some compatibility issues, but you need to look at the big picture: There are thousands of people playing SFC who aren't having these problems. So does that mean that Taldren and their game(s) is worthless? I think not. Do you have absolutely ZERO problems with all other games on your system? I would be very skeptical if you said yes to this.

Most of the squawking I have seen on these forums relate to game design choices, not bad software. I have played computer games for about 20 years now, and as far as game developers go, I feel Taldren is above average when it comes to maintaining a dialogue with their customers (until people started getting rather nasty to them on here) and I feel they support their products reasonably well, with SFC3 being the black sheep.

I think getting in bed with Activision to make SFC3 was a poor decision on Taldren's part, but hindsight is 20-20. I have never been impressed with Activision's handling of the Star Trek license; their anal retentive posture towards game patching and their after-the-sale customer satisfaction is a sad example of poor public relations. If you compare the post-retail patching history of SFC1, SFC2, and SFCOP to the handling of SFC3, it is hard to point the finger at Taldren. Heck, they just released another fine patch for Orion Pirates, a game whose shelf life has long since passed! I appreciate that. Compare that to the SFC3 situation: Activision has 100% control on when and if a patch will be released. Although Activision officially denies that a "one patch policy" exists, that indeed appears to be the case with a great many recent games they have released. Clearly that is not only a purely profit-driven decision, but also an insult to real customer service. Personally, I would be delighted to see Activision be relieved of the Trek license; they have been NO savior of the ST game franchise. The down side to this, of course, is what will happen to the future of Trek games?

Mike

Deviak · « **Reply #82 on:** August 13, 2003, 04:53:03 pm »

Just to..ummm..give you an example of not being the dev's fault but the whole thing really stops at the publisher....Galaxy Andromeda formerly known as Imperium Galactica 3. Mithis Games had almost completed the game..just a few MP codes and stability issues to plug in..CDV decided to cancel it. Nuff said.

3dot14 · « **Reply #85 on:** August 13, 2003, 05:29:18 pm »

Well it just isn't an SFC game without a post like this. (ISPEAKTHETRUTH, anyone?).

But beyond that, I have no comment on this thread one way or another... (I hope I won't fuel more flames)

SFC Bennie · « **Reply #86 on:** August 13, 2003, 05:48:09 pm »

Probably.

I just wish people wouldn't misspell "TROLLTH" as "TRUTH" so damn often. I know they have similar sounds, but the use of upper caps is a dead giveaway.

Scott Bennie

Tulwar · « **Reply #87 on:** August 13, 2003, 06:21:15 pm »

SFC3 is completely Activision's falt. Rushing the release of a game to meet the release date of a movie hardly appears to be Taldren's style. Activision? Their aggressive marketing strategy says it all. Death to Activision! Long live Taldren!

James Formo · « **Reply #90 on:** August 13, 2003, 11:00:48 pm »

Taldren owns in my book. They back there products up. All games have bugs. Thats because there are a gazillion possible computer hardware configuations. No game will ever be bug free cause of this. Even so I still prefer SFC2/OP. It simply has more variety with races and I like the fact that each race has a unique interface.

grave · « **Reply #91 on:** August 14, 2003, 03:43:14 am »

shees! if i were to have listened to the fourms id of never got any of the SFC games( ive been playsing this serise sence SFC1 and i love the hole lot of em... cept the FPS ones.) now dont get me rong i do think that SFC3 has lots of bugs BUT i run an old 500mzh pIII with a nvida gforce 2 with 64megs and a hole wopping 256mgs pc133 and the games all work great. the only problem i have noticed is that SFC3 thakes lots of time to load and runs slow.... BUT i solved that by going through every model and delieting all the glow maps and vola game runs sweet! well thats my 2 cents worth

Phaser · « **Reply #92 on:** August 14, 2003, 04:28:59 am »

game runs fine for me too but i caint log onto d3, when i first bought the game i was able but now when i log on to d3 it goes threw but i dont ever see any servers this has been going on for months now .

i do think sfc3 blows chunks in my opinion compared to sfc2 and OP which i love now that they have been patched great job guys,i might as well just take my copy of sfc3 and make it a drink coaster..

[Merc]-Phaser

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #95 on:** August 14, 2003, 06:22:21 am »

In my day we didn't have anything so new-fangled as all that. We gathered a bunch of people up from the hills ,dressed them up like the lights in the sky, or "ships" as some called them, and gave them clubs and rocks of various sizes. They would walk around and throw the rocks at eachother. The big trouble was lack of "damage control" after a "critical hit", pretty much just did your "ship" in. Sometimes it would leave your "ship" drifting aimlessly, having suffered irreparable damage to the "sensors" and "main computer".

Tarrek · « **Reply #96 on:** August 14, 2003, 07:34:30 am »

Well said

Toasty0 · « **Reply #100 on:** August 16, 2003, 12:14:52 am »

So I played SFC on this

You folks do remember that game, don'ch?

Best,
Jerry

David Ferrell · « **Reply #103 on:** August 20, 2003, 07:30:52 pm »

And I thought I had it rough! Here's a picture of my current
debugging machine for OP:

Thanks,

Dave

SFC Bennie · « **Reply #104 on:** August 20, 2003, 07:51:00 pm »

Now *that's* fricking cool, Dave.

Scott Bennie

ActiveX · « **Reply #105 on:** August 20, 2003, 08:44:49 pm »

Holy...

Doing SFC3 on a Genesis?

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #106 on:** August 20, 2003, 10:20:39 pm »

Coleco-Vision!!! all right, ya know how to pick your systems. I've got three console systems, two of which were bought before Computers were a household appliance, and the third, well we got that one b/c we only had one computer at the time and we were always fighting over it. The Three systems are, Coleco-Vision, the Nintendo Entertainment System and the N64. Of the three systems, only the Coleco-Vision works flawlessly whenever we ask it to, the NES works only after constant shifting and praying, while the N64 is prone to randomly shutting itself off in the middle of a game. The only problem with the CV is that we only have one operational controller, and its about to give up a ghost...i hope i can find some reliable controllers shortly, it would be a shame to give up that wonderful system.

Anyway, back on Topic...

Taldren does have its flaws, ill be the first to admit it. Unfortunatly the entity that bears the most responsibilty for the SFC3 fiasco is Activision. Activision set an unrealistic release date, and then forced Taldren to submit every patch they wanted to send out to their play testers, who then send it back to Taldren saying that it still hasnt fixed everything. If anyone else was running the show, Taldren would have released 3 or 4 patches by now, and the game would be 99% playable. The Only real problems i have with it now is it taking up excessive amount of system memory upon the launching of a shuttlecraft or the dropping of a mine. The Neutral Zone patch took care of the shuttle craft problem by turning shuttles into PFs and giving them only to a select few ships. though the mine issue is still a problem, its not nearly as bad as a shuttle launch. Frankly, i wish ATVI would let the patch get released, so that Taldren can begin working on the stuff that was cut out so that SFC3 would meet the publicity deadline. And as for ATVI filing a lawsuit against Viacom...tell me, does anyone remember seeing ANY advertisments for SFC3? the only one i saw was actually a preview for the game inside of a computer gaming magazine. And if I wasnt actively looking for the SFC2:EaW patch 2036 I prolly wouldnt have even known to look for that SFC3 was going to be coming out. I dont just wander in to a local computer software store and look at the newest releases, i just get the game that i was looking for and then get out. If ATVI knows whats good for them, they will let the patch out before the middile of next month, or they will never be able to get it out. Half Life 2, third week of September!!!

Dash Jones · « **Reply #107 on:** August 21, 2003, 09:54:53 am »

Whoa, I didn't even know the the Jaguar possessed the specs for OP! Doesn't it lack a 3d card!

Cool pic.

David Ferrell · « **Reply #108 on:** August 21, 2003, 12:04:25 pm »

Just to make sure everyone knows, the picture was a joke in keeping
with the others of this thread.

Thanks,

Dave

Captain Ron · « **Reply #109 on:** August 21, 2003, 12:26:19 pm »

Too bad if it was designed for a consol at least it would work for everyone as they all would have have the same HW and firmware. Not to mention M$ would not be involved.

As for this thread...
I could have sworn that ThatGuy did this for SFC2 and OP as well. Same arguement just a few name changes. I still laugh at ppl that do this as expecting games to work prefectly on everyones hardware/software is a pipe dream. M$ OSs' have been know to not install properly 3 out of 5 times, and this to the fact that if you add HW to your system you can over-write DLLs and other important things that might not contain everything the last one had. M$ wrote a OPEN OS and anyone developing software has been known to dread this. Heck most ppl can not even read and understand the specs posted on the outside of the box, so big surprise here when it doesn't work.

I could go on but why?
Oh, here is one for you when was the last time you patched your OS?
If you haven't been doing that then you will have all sorts of troubles!

AdmiralFrey_XC · « **Reply #111 on:** August 21, 2003, 03:12:13 pm »

Well !

I've got ya all beat!

I recompiled the entire code into B.A.S.I.C. and machine language subroutines that run on my VIC 20 !!!

Well, I will admit, you have to have that smokin' 12 K expander cartridge to get the compiler to run, but hey!

I'd let ya'll know how it looked, but it's still compiling.

(Three hours later)

Still compiling.......

(three days later)

still.....compiling........

(three weeks later)

still........compiling.....wait , what's that smoke?

Oh.

Toasty0 · « **Reply #113 on:** August 21, 2003, 03:42:14 pm »

Be sure and compile a 51/2" floppy for me too Frey!

I need it for my C64.

Best,
Jerry

James Formo · « **Reply #117 on:** August 21, 2003, 05:27:28 pm »

[quote
You don't need to delete the glows if you have the latest version of the DW mod, I removed the stupid looking things myself....

I like the glows. Just started modding for SFC3. Glows can be good. They just need to be scaled down so they don't show thru the hulls and stuff.

Hey Pelican. I got your 5 pack of missions from SFC3. Big

There fantastic. I'd get your whole mod only my 56k is a deterrant

Have you got missions in your big mod that are not in that 5 pack? If so could you do up just a mission pack for us 56k ers

I 'd like to see a seperate small download with just your spec files and 9 race map as well. As I could add in my own ships or just fill in with some stock ones.

Back to SFC3 topic. Try comparing SFC3 to SFC2/OP out of the box. SFC3 will just get better and better cause of all the modders. Anyways I like SFC3. It looks way better than SFC2. You can't really tell by screenshots either. The ships just look so much clearer. It runs perfect on my 800 mhz AMD with only 128 mb RAM. ViperII card. Only thing is sometimes the background scenery doesn't render. I was able to modify the scenery models so that it works with my vid card.

Like I said performance in game is flawless. Only thing is at the supply/refit/mission screen it putters and hangs. OP use to do that. I just installed OP latest patch and that is fixed. I believe that SFC3 will get patched and one day be thought of as 1 of the best of the series.

A lot of what I read people whining about SFC3 in the forum just isn't true. Some said the ships banked too much. Only the frigates bank a lot. Get up to a DN and it will barely turn at all

Really only 1 thing I say needs improvement. The AI just doesn't seem too bright. In its use of where it cloaks and uncloaks. Even its HET and mine laying manuevers seem pointless. SFC2/OP AI is much better- but that was thru a few patches. I mean, I took out a warbird without a scratch in a Norway aided by a Intrepid. The only solution the AI has to even it up is outnumber your destroyer with 2 CA's and a CL. Then its pointless to stick around.

James Formo · « **Reply #118 on:** August 21, 2003, 09:50:19 pm »

Another point on the glows as I just found how to make mine more realistic. Most people have the alpha on there glows at the default 255 or so. THis is ok for buzzards but for long areas like the length of a nacel. Set the alpha at 55. This will diffuse it so you don't get that bright round ball look. You can actually increase the scale of the glows and lower the alpha and they look better. I hav't found how to adjust the alpha in the modtools yet so I just make note of which groups I need to lower and open the gf in word and edit it there. There thats my 2 cents or is it a nickel. I fully understand though, if you get rid of them so the game runs better for ya

Dogmatix! · « **Reply #120 on:** August 22, 2003, 03:47:30 pm »

Damn..I remember my big arsed floppy drive on my Atari 800....and that infernal tape drive. Let's see...the command to load a proggie from tape was...

"CLOAD" ...and after 10-15 minutes, you'ld be rewarded with something like "program load failed."

...and there was nothing like "dubbing" tapes to swap programs. That seems kinda funny in retrospect. Needless to say, I didn't use my tape drive much.

Everyone remember buying disks and using a hole punch to cut out a notch on the other side of the floppy so you could flip it over and double its capacity? heheh...

Green · « **Reply #123 on:** August 22, 2003, 06:19:50 pm »

43,362,810 more of these puppies and I'll be rockin'. There is no screen, but I can kind of get a print out of what is happening.

Green · « **Reply #126 on:** August 22, 2003, 11:03:09 pm »

Ah, crud ... I forgot about 3.0+. Make that 73,362,810 more of these damn cards to go through ... but don't expect the models to be in there. We'd have to cut down the entire Northwest to get enough cards.

As for Bonk's SFB mod w/ models ... no.

Yyrkoon · « **Reply #127 on:** August 23, 2003, 01:20:08 am »

The original post was right on! As I type this, (on my other cumputer) The game crashed to desktop, and now the Dynacrap will not recognize my account so I can relogin, and if I try to open a new one it will not connect to that server either.

If you really think this game is not a nightmare and really belive it is a a good solid game for the money, then your just plain ignorant!!!

Oh yea and before you all think I called you all stupid look up the word ignorant.

Ps if you needed to look up the word ignorant your stupid.

Yyrkoon · « **Reply #130 on:** August 23, 2003, 05:37:11 pm »

"Ignorant is not knowing the difference between "your" and the contraction "you're" for your are. "

Ah when we are miffed and can not think up better ways to attack, then we resort to personal attacks on grammer and spelling.... Your superior intelligence and wit, have once again won the day for you.

Now I have seen the way of my folley and will be nice so Talderns game work better. Why didn't you just say so from the start. Taldren should put this in the manuals.

It should be in the technical help section:

1. If you have any problem with our game just be nice, and it will soon run smoothly without error! Thanks your for your money!

The New Guy · « **Reply #132 on:** August 30, 2003, 10:13:05 am »

honestly, I didn't read through all the posts (though I took a long look to read the blue screen of death

) and on the original topic, my version is un patched,,, no patch at all, and i've had no problems to speak of, except for two crashes, one caused by MY editing of the shiplist, and the other during the klingon mission wit hthe rakellian freighters,,, but I've got around both. I'd have to say SFC3 is a pretty good friggen game, and the only thing I didn't like, was the loss of Missles, and some of the races. and ya know, I still believe, if you tried hard enough you could put missles back in,,,, i've seen alot of stufff in the strings and stufff,,, just a thought.

can't remember much of my first computer,,,, except it had a 6 meg hard drive,,, and I played Wolfenstein 3D, and Doom on it,,, and a little game called Syndicate,,, anyone else heard of that?

T' Kang · « **Reply #134 on:** March 02, 2005, 09:42:29 am »

The game has had bugs. So does every program. I have run the game on D3 (v435 wDX9) with a 500Mhz Celeron and Dial-up and it ran great. Now the connections between players, auto-forfiet while in battle, etc... that was an issue at times.

With Activision and Paramount holding the license rights (read as "purse strings") the future is questionable at best.

Taldren and the Beta-Team have been putting out patches without Activision posting or supporting them. Who is supporting SFC3? The developer and the players.

Now that Taldren is "no-longer" it will be the players that will keep SFC alive, or not.

toasty0 · « **Reply #135 on:** March 03, 2005, 11:45:34 pm »

Quote from: T' Kang on March 02, 2005, 09:42:29 am

The game has had bugs. So does every program. I have run the game on D3 (v435 wDX9) with a 500Mhz Celeron and Dial-up and it ran great. Now the connections between players, auto-forfiet while in battle, etc... that was an issue at times.

With Activision and Paramount holding the license rights (read as "purse strings") the future is questionable at best.

Taldren and the Beta-Team have been putting out patches without Activision posting or supporting them. Who is supporting SFC3? The developer and the players.

Now that Taldren is "no-longer" it will be the players that will keep SFC alive, or not.

It has always been that players...always.

Greenvalv · « **Reply #136 on:** March 04, 2005, 03:06:53 pm »

My reply to this whole thread is this......

I heard that Activision rushed Taldren to try to get the game out on the shelves before Nemisis came out. Taldren told them it wasn't finished but rushed anyway.

Volume two is a tenth as buggy as volume three, and is capable of JPEG textures and not just BMP. It's also capatible with all sorts of video card drivers, volume three is not. I'm one of those "lucky few" that have volume three running without trouble and enjoy the game and fix it whenever it does crash. My dream is that sometime in the near future someone (me?) purchases Taldren and puts them back to work on a low bug, high graphic, 3d game of excellence (Volume four

)

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #137 on:** March 04, 2005, 04:12:36 pm »

I believe that ATVI did in fact give Taldren at least one extension (I believe it was more though) over what was stated at the inception of the project though. I don't see how you could say that SFCII is one tenth as buggy as III, unless you are comparing SFCII after years of patching to SFCIII upon release. SFCII upon release was a disaster. The dynaverse wasn't even included in the package, it came much, much later (like when the expansion was being promoted at E3, and even then it wasn't ready for prime time). The bugs with other aspects of the game were almost too numerous to mention (OP had so many extra bugs as well, due to the added elements), so really, where's the blame on those? How does it differ? SFCIII upon release was actually light years ahead of where SFCII was upon it's release, imo.

I have to agree with toasy, though. It has, and always will be the fans that keep the game alive. They can make the game but it's up to the consumers to embrace the game (no matter how much the dev's and publisher claim "Our product is fun!" it's always up to the fans) and keep it going. The difference now is we have nobody to give us a newer version and that part will be up to the fans, unless Paramount decides our wallets are worth tapping again, which we'll have to just wait and see if that comes about.

Captain Spadaro · « **Reply #138 on:** March 06, 2005, 08:11:36 pm »

Quote from: Reptor7 on August 13, 2003, 05:19:08 am

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

One more thing, don't go on about the state of SFC3 being activision's fault.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

As one who has been on the inside testing SFC3 for Activision, Taldren had little to do with the state SFC3 was in when it was released. Why? Because... because... ack! Damn NDA!

What in the name of James T. Kirk is the NDA?

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #139 on:** March 06, 2005, 08:40:32 pm »

That would be a Non-Disclosure Agreement...which means...he knows...but if he says anything he can be...taken to the proverbial Cleaners.

KBF-Crim · « **Reply #140 on:** March 08, 2005, 12:42:30 am »

Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on March 06, 2005, 08:40:32 pm

That would be a Non-Disclosure Agreement...which means...he knows...but if he says anything he can be...taken to the proverbial Cleaners.

No ...not at all....we are free to tell you anything you wish to know...

Of course the contract then requires us to hunt you down and terminate you with extreme prejudice...

Most of what went on is no big secret.....as a member of both groups I can attest to the fact that...

....most of the time...both groups were not event testing the same version...

...ACTI's QA system seemed in my opinion to be disfunctional and actually retarded efforts somewhat......

...Most of the Visioneers were not given proper backround information on the series.....and spent a lot of time trying to figure out where the Taldrenites were comming from in a variety of issues...and sometimes those issues were simply declared moot or not applicable to the new game....

...The unstated..but clear desire to part with the previous ruleset as "out dated" ruled out many clearly valid substutes to enhance tactical enjoyment ,variations, and subtleties...

....it took FOREVER and a week to drag the weapons info out of them just to do basic checks for damage bugs etc...

...License restriction was often used as a feature request nuke....even when the request was shown to be TNG based...

...Time or the lack there of was most often used...and it became clear at some point (sooner than you'd think) that the game was feature frozen....

I think the testers did a stellar job what what they had to work with...

And remember this one simple fact....just because something wasnt fixed.....doesnt mean that the testers missed it...

I also think some of the problems stemmed from a basic difference in operation....Taldren was used to having free riegn over issuing patches....and the teams desire to allways make an effort to get fixes out in a timely manner meant many small patches...and that is in direct conflict with ACTI's proven track record....

It wasnt that Taldren didnt want to do more...at one point they were pretty much forbidden to( after having to leak a patch)....and at the other...they didnt have the resources to devote to it anymore....and at that point...the lawsuit with Paramount was fresh.....no one knew what was going to happen with license...

Pity is....SFC3 had hell of a lot of community requests directly in the game(fleeting, option mounts, hidden cloak)....and they tried like hell to make stuff modable....but the stuff you can mod doesnt make up for the stuff you cant....and thus....alot of us still cling to Orion Pirates for gameplay.....it simply has more depth...

We can only hope to fetch it out of the dumpster if and when ACTI pulls the plug...

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #141 on:** March 08, 2005, 01:17:43 am »

Actually, it was Taldren who was holding back information. They did this because they said they were so tired of all the rules lawyers and stuff, that they didn't want to release numbers and hear all the whining again. It wasn't ATVI. Even after Erik said that the numbers would be released, it took forever. I shot an e-mail off to him at one point, about a variety of issues, and in his response he seemed unaware that they had not been released and said he made a promises to do some talking to some folks and get them released. Not long after that they appeared. I believe that Taldren is more to blame that a lot of the fans would ever care to admit. That is not to say that ATVI isn't to blame, they surely didn't allow Taldren to go about it's normal peicemeal patching process. I believe that they didn't really know what to do with the Trek franchise (and especially SFC) and just ended up releases a bunch of barely average games (if that), but from what I saw and read there was plenty of fault on both sides, and a lot of the Taldren folks (or at least those in charge of getting them out there) didn't want to release any info on the inner workings of the game.

KBF-Crim · « **Reply #142 on:** March 08, 2005, 01:27:32 pm »

I wasnt trying to imply that Taldren was faultless.....only that many of the problems were as much a result of the proccess used, as they were about decisions made....

FVA_C_ Blade_ XC · « **Reply #143 on:** March 08, 2005, 01:44:27 pm »

Yawn,

Who dug up this old mess from the old Taldren forums?

News:

Topic: The TRUTH about TALDREN and SFC3 (Read 24844 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

ThatGuy

ActiveX

ThatGuy

ActiveX

SFC Bennie

Reptor7

Tremok

jimmi7769

Mantis

Lepton1

Reptor7

Mantis

quircus

MarianoDT

Mike H

Deviak

Reptor7

Jwest

3dot14

SFC Bennie

Tulwar

ActiveX

Alidar Jarok

James Formo

grave

Phaser

Holocat

Toasty0

EmeraldEdge

Tarrek

ActiveX

MarianoDT

Rod O'neal

Toasty0

**DONOTDELETE**

The_Pelican

David Ferrell

SFC Bennie

ActiveX

Lieutenant_Q

Dash Jones

David Ferrell

Captain Ron

Dash Jones

AdmiralFrey_XC

Dogmatix!

Toasty0

David Ferrell

MarianoDT

Toasty0

James Formo

James Formo

AdmiralFrey_XC

Dogmatix!

Pestalence

ActiveX

Green

ActiveX

B5er wanna be

Green

Yyrkoon

Flasheyes

ActiveX

Yyrkoon

TOCXOBearslayer

The New Guy

Dark Jedi

ThatGuy

ActiveX

ThatGuy

ActiveX

SFC Bennie

Reptor7

Tremok

Topic: The TRUTH about TALDREN and SFC3 (Read 24844 times)

DONOTDELETE