Topic: OP+ Question (Read 7542 times)

Drakenred · « **on:** July 28, 2003, 01:04:38 am »

Im not seeing the Fed CF or the carier variant show up at the shipyards, am I missing something? (that was one of my fav Fed CA "Variants" even if it was a unique class) untill the CB

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2003, 01:30:45 am »

It's listed as "R-restricted" in the shiplist. I'm not 100% certain of all the designations, but I think that stops it from appearing in the players builds and allows it for the AI. If you remove the R it'll appear in the player's builds. The CAD's are also restricted. They aren't in the stock shiplist. They just have the "D-drone" designation there. Maybe it's on purpose, or maybe it's an oversight done during editing. I'm sure FireSoul will fill us in when he reads this though.

Drakenred · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2003, 01:47:33 am »

If I remember the "Backstory" from the modules that had thoes versions, the Fast Cruiser was a limited producion modle that was droped (suposedly becuase it was not worth the effort, but they often would win against any other CA hull out their during their "era" Ecluding other Fast CAs), the CAD was originaly a ship that was mauled so badly that they had physialy lost the Photon mounts and the shipyard that it was at only had Missleracks, and was never a purpose build variant, unlike the fire suport CAF,(If i remember that one it was suposedly built to give the Feds a Starbase killer cruiser as a "Fed" anser to the Klingon/Romulan Maulers and the wall of Drones that (Cough)( Kizinti)(cough) Miriak Drone bombardment cruser could put on the map without actualy being on the map(LORD am i glad they did not impliment type III Long range missles, or starfish or spearfish or Drone armor(the list goes on and on) but Im not sure about how many of thoes were built.

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2003, 02:00:53 am »

The limited production, or total lack of production as some ships in SFB weren't ever produced, isn't reflected in SFC's shiplist. A ship is either available or it isn't. If you put an R designation it's not going to show in the players builds. Take it out and you'll be offered the ship again.

FireSoul · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2003, 03:18:00 am »

I didn't have to say much..
It's all been said above.

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2003, 09:05:51 am »

Quote:

I didn't have to say much..
It's all been said above.

Did you restrict them on purpose? (The CF and CAD's) Or is that something that should be changed?

RazalYllib · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2003, 11:26:40 pm »

Firesoul, I think your designation of many of the "novelty" ships is more or less the right thing to do.
I feel that many,if not most, of these designated varients were not "mass" production, but fabricated as needed for specific needs or as part of ongoing R&D,in the SFU, which is the starting off back story for the D2 in general, custom mods notwithstanding of course.

FireSoul · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2003, 11:28:33 pm »

yeah.. ;>
Hey, you wanna fly something with 7 drone racks? Take a Z-MDC+. ;>

James Formo · « **Reply #13 on:** July 29, 2003, 12:33:15 am »

Ok R=restricted. Could someone tell me what M stands for under special roles?

RazalYllib · « **Reply #15 on:** July 29, 2003, 07:36:38 am »

M= Rambo in a can

jdmckinney · « **Reply #16 on:** July 29, 2003, 10:20:31 am »

I don't see why all the fast cruisers couldn't be unrestricted. They are fun ships, everyone has them (I think), and they aren't specialty, one-dimensional ships in that they bulk up on one type of system over another (unless you count warp, I guess). In fact, since the fast cruisers served a specific role in the fleet to carry out deep strikes and raids, they were counted on as a crucial part of a fleet.

I would personally not do a D2 campaign without them if I had a say. So, to me it's just another several ships that need to be derestricted before going live.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2003, 02:06:32 pm »

Yeah, that's Moggy's fault -- he keeps asking me nicely. Thing is, I think the LDR and WYN don't belong in larger empires at all -- they should really be in mod campaigns where they occupy their own slots. In the meantime, they just clutter the other empires' lists, at least for someone like me who has to go in and check them all to see which ones should be restricted and which ones should be available. Either way, they're nice to have around, but are a pain to use in a campaign that makes sense. There's no good reason for Klingons and Kzinti, for example, to both have WYN ships just because the hulls are the same. It just doesn't fly in D2. Now, for GSA, it is no big deal. Let's just say I'm conflicted about these two races -- they weren't implemented so they could work well within SFC's existing races when Taldren added them in, but they are certainly fun ships to play. It's a campaign designer's problem.

On the other hand, an entire class of ships that all races have is another thing altogether -- there's no confusion about where they belong, just a decision to be made about whether they are worth making available, all things considered.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #20 on:** July 29, 2003, 10:07:42 pm »

Well, they might have been fine as pseudo-pirates before, but now the AI knows how to engine-double. I'd hate to see an LDR Democracy Battlecruiser come at me with doubled engines. I really wish doubling was a .gf setting that could be flipped on or off for each pirate slot, but oh well.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2003, 06:23:27 am »

Really? Does that turn it on or off for all cartels? That's a nice thing to have; shame it's not documented. What else should modders know about?

jdmckinney · « **Reply #25 on:** July 30, 2003, 09:45:53 am »

OK, so if this is an sfc.ini change, how is that useful to anyone other than those playing a single-player mod? Is there a way to disable it in PvP for GSA or D2? Does it only affect AI use of doubling, or does it take it out altogether (meaning players can't double, either)?

Sorry for all the questions, but we need to know a little more.

Bonk · « **Reply #26 on:** July 30, 2003, 09:53:26 am »

Very cool! (AllowEngineDoubling=0 that is...)

Any ideas on how to do this easily from an installer (NSIS or SFX/batch) without overwriting the whole sfc.ini file? I suppose I could figure it it out for myself, but hey why repeat the effort if someone has already figured out how.

I'm also curious about the NSIS installer, I've figured out simple scripts (get installation folder, set output folder, copy a few files...). I'm just using the "File" command but is there a way to drop in whole folders? I have a huge mod I'm working on and would rather use NSIS than the self exctracting rar (which runs a batch on completion) I am using now, but I would rather not have to make hundreds (thousands?) of "File" lines in my NSIS script...

Ah, scratch that second question, I just found the answer - use the /r switch on the "File" command! I also just figured out how to run a batch or other extrernal executable during the NSIS install (Exec, ExecShell or ExecWait), as well as the CreateShortCut command, too cool.

Oops, scratch the first question too! The NSIS command "WriteINIStr" will do the trick! That NSIS installer is just dandy!

Duh, I guess the answer to my questions was: RTFMS! ...now I have a bunch of work to do...

Bonk · « **Reply #28 on:** July 30, 2003, 10:48:41 am »

I just created two such executables like so:

EngineDoublingOff.nsi
Code:


Name "EngineDoublingOff"
OutFile "EngineDoublingOff.exe"
InstallDirRegKey HKLM "SOFTWARE\Taldren\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates" "Directory"
Section "" ;
WriteINIStr "$INSTDIR\sfc.ini"  "Network" "AllowEngineDoubling" "0"
SectionEnd ;

EngineDoublingOn.nsi
Code:


Name "EngineDoublingOn"
OutFile "EngineDoublingOn.exe"
InstallDirRegKey HKLM "SOFTWARE\Taldren\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates" "Directory"
Section "" ;
DeleteINIStr "$INSTDIR\sfc.ini"  "Network" "AllowEngineDoubling"
SectionEnd ;

Pestalence · « **Reply #29 on:** July 30, 2003, 11:28:05 am »

If you are using the switch in the SFC.ini file for engine doubling... the HOST of the game will be the standard... IE

if bonk had engine doubling set to 0

and I had it set to 1 to allow engine doubling...

then it depends on who hosts...

say Bonk hosts.. pirates have no engine doubling

if I host, Pirates have engine doubling... it is that simple...

Bonk · « **Reply #30 on:** July 30, 2003, 11:34:38 am »

Ah, thanks for the explanation Pestalence, It makes sense. I was wondering about that too.
So if used in a mod for a D2 server it should work fine. (Will be set to zero for all players)

jdmckinney · « **Reply #31 on:** July 30, 2003, 01:24:51 pm »

Not unless you perform a CRC check on the sfc.ini (can it be passed/failed?) or everyone plays by the rules. Otherwise, anyone can change the setting on their end -- not that they would, but they could.

Bonk · « **Reply #32 on:** July 30, 2003, 02:39:54 pm »

Yes, I realise that, I was going to mention that it would be nice if it could be included in the validatedclientfiles folder but each user will have a different sfc.ini because of resolution settings, install date etc.. so it wouldnt work anyway even if the security server could handle it. I have already tried including the NWMissionConfig.gf (From the OP Configurable MIssions Beta) in the validatedclientfiles folder but it will not work. (another potential exploit). It seems the security server can only validate .exe .scr and .txt files. Thanks for mentioning it anyway.

Bonk · « **Reply #34 on:** July 30, 2003, 04:14:40 pm »

Correct! (see my last post...)

FireSoul · « **Reply #35 on:** July 30, 2003, 04:16:37 pm »

It'll have to use the honor system..

Bonk · « **Reply #36 on:** July 30, 2003, 04:31:20 pm »

Yup, should be OK. We havent seen any one edit their NWMissionConfig.gf on LB4 that we know of. With engine doubling, it makes a noise both players can hear (?), so your opponent would know right away. I think all the players here are interested in a good match and a little fun without cheating anyway, so no need to worry about it much I guess.

Drakenred · « **Reply #37 on:** July 28, 2003, 01:04:38 am »

Im not seeing the Fed CF or the carier variant show up at the shipyards, am I missing something? (that was one of my fav Fed CA "Variants" even if it was a unique class) untill the CB

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #38 on:** July 28, 2003, 01:30:45 am »

It's listed as "R-restricted" in the shiplist. I'm not 100% certain of all the designations, but I think that stops it from appearing in the players builds and allows it for the AI. If you remove the R it'll appear in the player's builds. The CAD's are also restricted. They aren't in the stock shiplist. They just have the "D-drone" designation there. Maybe it's on purpose, or maybe it's an oversight done during editing. I'm sure FireSoul will fill us in when he reads this though.

Drakenred · « **Reply #39 on:** July 28, 2003, 01:47:33 am »

If I remember the "Backstory" from the modules that had thoes versions, the Fast Cruiser was a limited producion modle that was droped (suposedly becuase it was not worth the effort, but they often would win against any other CA hull out their during their "era" Ecluding other Fast CAs), the CAD was originaly a ship that was mauled so badly that they had physialy lost the Photon mounts and the shipyard that it was at only had Missleracks, and was never a purpose build variant, unlike the fire suport CAF,(If i remember that one it was suposedly built to give the Feds a Starbase killer cruiser as a "Fed" anser to the Klingon/Romulan Maulers and the wall of Drones that (Cough)( Kizinti)(cough) Miriak Drone bombardment cruser could put on the map without actualy being on the map(LORD am i glad they did not impliment type III Long range missles, or starfish or spearfish or Drone armor(the list goes on and on) but Im not sure about how many of thoes were built.

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #40 on:** July 28, 2003, 02:00:53 am »

The limited production, or total lack of production as some ships in SFB weren't ever produced, isn't reflected in SFC's shiplist. A ship is either available or it isn't. If you put an R designation it's not going to show in the players builds. Take it out and you'll be offered the ship again.

FireSoul · « **Reply #41 on:** July 28, 2003, 03:18:00 am »

I didn't have to say much..
It's all been said above.

RazalYllib · « **Reply #48 on:** July 28, 2003, 11:26:40 pm »

Firesoul, I think your designation of many of the "novelty" ships is more or less the right thing to do.
I feel that many,if not most, of these designated varients were not "mass" production, but fabricated as needed for specific needs or as part of ongoing R&D,in the SFU, which is the starting off back story for the D2 in general, custom mods notwithstanding of course.

FireSoul · « **Reply #49 on:** July 28, 2003, 11:28:33 pm »

yeah.. ;>
Hey, you wanna fly something with 7 drone racks? Take a Z-MDC+. ;>

James Formo · « **Reply #50 on:** July 29, 2003, 12:33:15 am »

Ok R=restricted. Could someone tell me what M stands for under special roles?

RazalYllib · « **Reply #52 on:** July 29, 2003, 07:36:38 am »

M= Rambo in a can

jdmckinney · « **Reply #53 on:** July 29, 2003, 10:20:31 am »

I don't see why all the fast cruisers couldn't be unrestricted. They are fun ships, everyone has them (I think), and they aren't specialty, one-dimensional ships in that they bulk up on one type of system over another (unless you count warp, I guess). In fact, since the fast cruisers served a specific role in the fleet to carry out deep strikes and raids, they were counted on as a crucial part of a fleet.

I would personally not do a D2 campaign without them if I had a say. So, to me it's just another several ships that need to be derestricted before going live.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #55 on:** July 29, 2003, 02:06:32 pm »

Yeah, that's Moggy's fault -- he keeps asking me nicely. Thing is, I think the LDR and WYN don't belong in larger empires at all -- they should really be in mod campaigns where they occupy their own slots. In the meantime, they just clutter the other empires' lists, at least for someone like me who has to go in and check them all to see which ones should be restricted and which ones should be available. Either way, they're nice to have around, but are a pain to use in a campaign that makes sense. There's no good reason for Klingons and Kzinti, for example, to both have WYN ships just because the hulls are the same. It just doesn't fly in D2. Now, for GSA, it is no big deal. Let's just say I'm conflicted about these two races -- they weren't implemented so they could work well within SFC's existing races when Taldren added them in, but they are certainly fun ships to play. It's a campaign designer's problem.

On the other hand, an entire class of ships that all races have is another thing altogether -- there's no confusion about where they belong, just a decision to be made about whether they are worth making available, all things considered.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #57 on:** July 29, 2003, 10:07:42 pm »

Well, they might have been fine as pseudo-pirates before, but now the AI knows how to engine-double. I'd hate to see an LDR Democracy Battlecruiser come at me with doubled engines. I really wish doubling was a .gf setting that could be flipped on or off for each pirate slot, but oh well.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #60 on:** July 30, 2003, 06:23:27 am »

Really? Does that turn it on or off for all cartels? That's a nice thing to have; shame it's not documented. What else should modders know about?

jdmckinney · « **Reply #62 on:** July 30, 2003, 09:45:53 am »

OK, so if this is an sfc.ini change, how is that useful to anyone other than those playing a single-player mod? Is there a way to disable it in PvP for GSA or D2? Does it only affect AI use of doubling, or does it take it out altogether (meaning players can't double, either)?

Sorry for all the questions, but we need to know a little more.

Bonk · « **Reply #63 on:** July 30, 2003, 09:53:26 am »

Very cool! (AllowEngineDoubling=0 that is...)

Any ideas on how to do this easily from an installer (NSIS or SFX/batch) without overwriting the whole sfc.ini file? I suppose I could figure it it out for myself, but hey why repeat the effort if someone has already figured out how.

I'm also curious about the NSIS installer, I've figured out simple scripts (get installation folder, set output folder, copy a few files...). I'm just using the "File" command but is there a way to drop in whole folders? I have a huge mod I'm working on and would rather use NSIS than the self exctracting rar (which runs a batch on completion) I am using now, but I would rather not have to make hundreds (thousands?) of "File" lines in my NSIS script...

Ah, scratch that second question, I just found the answer - use the /r switch on the "File" command! I also just figured out how to run a batch or other extrernal executable during the NSIS install (Exec, ExecShell or ExecWait), as well as the CreateShortCut command, too cool.

Oops, scratch the first question too! The NSIS command "WriteINIStr" will do the trick! That NSIS installer is just dandy!

Duh, I guess the answer to my questions was: RTFMS! ...now I have a bunch of work to do...

Bonk · « **Reply #65 on:** July 30, 2003, 10:48:41 am »

I just created two such executables like so:

EngineDoublingOff.nsi
Code:


Name "EngineDoublingOff"
OutFile "EngineDoublingOff.exe"
InstallDirRegKey HKLM "SOFTWARE\Taldren\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates" "Directory"
Section "" ;
WriteINIStr "$INSTDIR\sfc.ini"  "Network" "AllowEngineDoubling" "0"
SectionEnd ;

EngineDoublingOn.nsi
Code:


Name "EngineDoublingOn"
OutFile "EngineDoublingOn.exe"
InstallDirRegKey HKLM "SOFTWARE\Taldren\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates" "Directory"
Section "" ;
DeleteINIStr "$INSTDIR\sfc.ini"  "Network" "AllowEngineDoubling"
SectionEnd ;

Pestalence · « **Reply #66 on:** July 30, 2003, 11:28:05 am »

If you are using the switch in the SFC.ini file for engine doubling... the HOST of the game will be the standard... IE

if bonk had engine doubling set to 0

and I had it set to 1 to allow engine doubling...

then it depends on who hosts...

say Bonk hosts.. pirates have no engine doubling

if I host, Pirates have engine doubling... it is that simple...

Bonk · « **Reply #67 on:** July 30, 2003, 11:34:38 am »

Ah, thanks for the explanation Pestalence, It makes sense. I was wondering about that too.
So if used in a mod for a D2 server it should work fine. (Will be set to zero for all players)

jdmckinney · « **Reply #68 on:** July 30, 2003, 01:24:51 pm »

Not unless you perform a CRC check on the sfc.ini (can it be passed/failed?) or everyone plays by the rules. Otherwise, anyone can change the setting on their end -- not that they would, but they could.

Bonk · « **Reply #69 on:** July 30, 2003, 02:39:54 pm »

Yes, I realise that, I was going to mention that it would be nice if it could be included in the validatedclientfiles folder but each user will have a different sfc.ini because of resolution settings, install date etc.. so it wouldnt work anyway even if the security server could handle it. I have already tried including the NWMissionConfig.gf (From the OP Configurable MIssions Beta) in the validatedclientfiles folder but it will not work. (another potential exploit). It seems the security server can only validate .exe .scr and .txt files. Thanks for mentioning it anyway.

Bonk · « **Reply #71 on:** July 30, 2003, 04:14:40 pm »

Correct! (see my last post...)

FireSoul · « **Reply #72 on:** July 30, 2003, 04:16:37 pm »

It'll have to use the honor system..

Bonk · « **Reply #73 on:** July 30, 2003, 04:31:20 pm »

Yup, should be OK. We havent seen any one edit their NWMissionConfig.gf on LB4 that we know of. With engine doubling, it makes a noise both players can hear (?), so your opponent would know right away. I think all the players here are interested in a good match and a little fun without cheating anyway, so no need to worry about it much I guess.

News:

Topic: OP+ Question (Read 7542 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Drakenred

Rod O'neal

Drakenred

Rod O'neal

FireSoul

Rod O'neal

FireSoul

jimmi7769

FireSoul

jimmi7769

FPF_TraceyG

RazalYllib

FireSoul

James Formo

FireSoul

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jdmckinney

FireSoul

jdmckinney

Klingon Fanatic

jdmckinney

FireSoul

FireSoul

jdmckinney

FireSoul

jdmckinney

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Bonk

Bonk

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jdmckinney

Bonk

FireSoul

Bonk

FireSoul

Bonk

Drakenred

Rod O'neal

Drakenred

Rod O'neal

FireSoul

Rod O'neal

FireSoul

jimmi7769

FireSoul

jimmi7769

FPF_TraceyG

RazalYllib

FireSoul

James Formo

FireSoul

RazalYllib

jdmckinney

FireSoul

jdmckinney

Klingon Fanatic

jdmckinney

FireSoul

FireSoul

jdmckinney

FireSoul

jdmckinney

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Bonk

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Topic: OP+ Question (Read 7542 times)