Topic: Dear Taldren (Read 13179 times)

pimo1 · « **on:** July 22, 2003, 06:14:19 pm »

I have read these forums since the day I bought my copy of sfc3 and before then I bought and played sfc 1 and 2 and pretty much every other game that has Star Trek in the name. I realize that Taldren is not the developer for all the Star trek games and in a way this post is about everyone involved in the Star Trek games past present and future.

Recently I was in frostworks and noticed an announcement that Chris Jones was retiring from modding. His reasons were the best...(taking care of home) but in a way the fact that people like chris jones get absolutely nothing for these mods/ships they slave over. I mean if you took away the moddersthese games would not be making money at all. That's not even something that can be questioned. The driving force behind all these games has always been the modding community. Id dare say that 80% of all the people who played the game through more htan once and continue the play the game online oor offline have or have had mo'ds of some sort. As far as the hardcore players the number would be higher and most would find the plain vanilla games boring.

I'm not saying that everyone puke that drops of a mod or ship deserves a job.. but some have been heere and pretty much carried these games on their backs. Look at SFC3 and OP with the huge delays in patches... the only reason players stuck around long enough for the patches is the modders.

In the least give these guys some real credit for the sacrifices some of them have made to make this these games greater than they are out of the box. I know for a fact that sfc3 out of the box is a piece of crap compared to the modded versions. Look at it people are still playing OP <--- thats insane. When madden 2k4 comes out no one will be playing 2k3.. look at the boards there are barely posts on sfc3. The patch has been on hold for so long I have no frigging idea. You guys could have at least put together a band-aid cobbled together from some of the mod's out there.. instead we have a crappy beta patch that is a BETA patch after how long? Months? Is it over a year yet?

I guess my main point is it's cool that you guys are trying ot make this patch perfect (if thats whats happening). Whats not cool is all the nothing going on in between. You guys could get with the modders throw them a few bucks and add new content saving loads on development. With the super guys out here you guys could have already made a frigging expansion. If you guys had made an expansion pack slapped a 15-20 buck charge on it and all it contained was the equivilent of the patch we have now and the Dominion Wars mod or Chris Jones mod even the TNZ mod... all of those added a huge amount of content to the game new idea's and to some extent functionality. Now imagine if those had been officially integrated. Just an idea.

Sorry for the long post but I have waited this long to speak my piece so planned to get it all out. It's just my opinion and maybe no one else feels that way.. I just thought it was something that needed saying.

vsfedwards · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:54:16 pm »

WOW powerful words buddy, but the reason i think that they wouldnt do that is because its cheaper for them the way its going now, they make a patch every year or so to reassure you that their doing something whilst the ppl who attract all the gamers (the modders that is) indireclty give them a lot of money, ppl realise that there are mods being made for these games buy them, the makers of the game get a bunch of notes ( a big bunch may i add) and they didnt have to do any work for it lol, well thats what i think anyway

NannerSlug · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:55:26 pm »

start a petition drive to activision.. that is the core of a lot of issues with sfc3 patching.

FireSoul · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:57:44 pm »

.. but sad would be the day when modders would do these things for money.
.. no, it's being done because it's fun, and passes on the fun to others.

-- Luc

vsfedwards · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:57:57 pm »

lol nanner now you sound like day - no offence if you read this day - "lets boycott star trek" lol

NannerSlug · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2003, 07:20:21 pm »

yeah, mods are done out of the desire to spin the game into our own vision of what is fun and what not.. that said, i might sound like day indeed.. i just know that at the core of the issue with the patch being official lies with activision. in light of the timing of the lawsuit and everything i have got to wonder. i just really, really wish that some how, some way they would give a darn and ask taldren to finish up (or at very least make official what is now beta) the 3 patch.

thats not to say the present patch is perfect, because we need a very least a "beta3" patch... but i fear that nothing will be done because of the politics/lawsuit.

vsfedwards · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2003, 07:29:04 pm »

Quote:

.. but sad would be the day when modders would do these things for money.
.. no, it's being done because it's fun, and passes on the fun to others.

-- Luc

so saying that, they practically do the same as many of the people who fiddle around with the game pre-release to sort things out, add a few extra things and tidy things up surely the modders do practically the same job but are more appreciated by the public and strangely enough not payed a lot....$0

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2003, 08:30:32 pm »

I've always wondered what the legal difference is between someone or some company making a custom exhaust system etc. for a Ford Mustang, for example, which is perfectly legal to sell. If someone makes a custom model, etc. for a game though, and tries to sell it, that's copyright infringement. What's the difference?

wilfbrim · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2003, 12:07:23 am »

Actually, it is a very good suggestion. If taldren could formulate a way to work with Activision and have expansion packs and modding packs, where the less than savvy people coulld do such things and use their ships, it might work very well. It would also allow more personal interaction with the game. I would think it also might set a wjhole new tone for game development, where a "structure" to a game is made, and then a variety of missions/options would be available as add on packs. Some what like Microsoft, where you pay 100.00 for an OS, then hundreds more for the tech support, upgrades, add ons, programs, etc to do what you really want. Come on Taldren, get with it! Join the great american Business System! Only, I still refuse to pay for tech support.... damn thing should work first time out.....

TheSatyr · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:55:25 am »

Viacom would sue the crap out of anyone that made a mod and tried to sell it.

Star Trek is their intellectual property...and while they are nice enough to let people mod their games for free,they have made it clear that they will stomp on anyone who tries to make money off of a mod.

FireSoul · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2003, 02:27:06 am »

Bingo.
.. if people want to send money to modders for some of their efforts? Fine.
.. but for the mods themselves? Not fine.

pimo1 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2003, 02:43:54 pm »

I think there was a misinterpretation of my meaning. I don';t think mod's should be sold I just think that the companies should look closely at the modding community for idea's.

The simple question is, if it wasn't for mod's how many of you would have played SFC3 this long? Personally I would have thrown it in a corner after the 7 days it took me to beat the official campaign on all 3 settings. What about SFC 2 and 1? Those games lived off the mod's.. at the very least they should be giving recognition. They could do like book authors and set aside a small space on the box for some of the more die hard modders. Because doing it free or not these guys are putting money in Activision and Taldrens (and whoever else put's out a Star trek game) pockets.

I'm not the butt kissing type so i'll say it straight out. IF NOT FOR MODDERS THE STAR TREK GAMES WOULD NOT SELL. Especially the SFC series. ESPECIALLY SFC3. Simply because these games, out of the box, have about 0 replay value. As far as online multiplayer, as I understand it most people play on modded servers.

No it would not be right for me to go make a mod and try selling it. But in a way SFC is like a buying a Hummer with a 4 cylinder engine and 2 wheel drive and 14inch wheels. It will run but thats about it. In the end the way they are marketting the Star trek games (and movies) is gonna kill the franchise. They need to drop the word "canon" from their vocabulary. They need to take what they have and build on that. SFC has a hugely faithful modding community. Do like games like NWN and build on that. Make the mod's the base of the game. Sure there are lot's of diehard fans but those are dying off (literally) The Star Trek franchise has to move forward or it's gonna die. But like most good things they will sit on their laurels and hope the geeks will still support. Eventually even geeks get bored of wearing the same stupid ears and silly hair dryer phaser cannons.

AdmiralFrey_XC · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2003, 03:13:13 pm »

I don't agree with the statement that without mods the SFC series would not sell.

That's crazy logic. And the fact that you said "people are still playing OP <--- that's insane" makes me wonder how much you've actually played OP.

SFC3 is getting the rough end of the stick right now because - IMHO - Activision is P'O'ed over the fact that they thought they were buying into a "cash cow" enterprise, but with how Berman / Braga has ruined the legacy that was Star Trek what do you expect? Most of the hardcore ST fans have all but thrown their hands up in frustration because of Berman / Braga's complete lack of regard for historical cannon, as well as series cannon.

The SFC series of games have been the BEST - while SFC3 is different - in regards to starship combat, and porting over SFB style play to the world of the PC.

I completely agree that the mod makers are what makes this game - and community - so bloody interesting and fun. So here's a big THANK YOU to everyone that's ever contributed to our community!

Regards,

NannerSlug · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2003, 09:31:05 pm »

pimo, you do not understand the politics of sfc series.

many of the people playing sfc: 2 or op are sfb fans who do not like or refuse to play sfc3 because it does not adhear to the sfb rule set. it is that simple.

now, i completely agree with you about the whole patch fiasco.. i can tell you that taldren did try to release at least 2 beta patches (one immediately) - but activision had taldren pull one due to certain political issues. a few weeks go by and a official patch is released. the main reason why it was not made official is because of modem issues which was found by ativi qa. (i think thats what was posted)

so, the "official" patch right now is in limbo until taldren finishes Black 9 (paying work)..

i whole heartedly agree that sfc3 has been - and is currently being - given the shaft. i am beginning to be very, very synical and wonder if things were held off until the lawsuit was activated.

in any case, i feel like if people, truly wanted to support sfc3 - they would have actively pursued taldren to release even what they felt like was official patch stuff. they didnt and it isnt there and now an official patch is in doubt for sure. personally, there are a few issues which are under my skin right now about the whole timing issue of certain things - but there isnt one darned thing i can do about it except email folks at taldren and activision.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:06:31 pm »

wrong again corbomite.. that is what you may wish for - but the vast majority of those playing sfc2/op are doing so because of the sfb rule set. it is that black and white. for what its worth.. if i am painting with a wide brush, you are paiting with an electric air brush (wagner power painter, baby).

infact, hardly anyone was playing OP until the patch - and most of those are sfc2 folk moving to op (belately) because of a few fixes which were needed. dont confuse the facts.

thanks.

FireSoul · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:13:04 pm »

No nanners..
I've noticed SFC3 players coming to play SFC:OP.. for their first time.

Corbomite · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:21:28 pm »

Nice to know the universe according to Nanner is still going strong. I have never seen or heard anyone playing SFC2 and not SFC3 say it was just because of the rules set. There are many playing both that acknowledge that they are just different games. Many, like me, just don't find SFC3 intriguing, regardless of rules set. I'm sure there are players that just like the SFB type rules more, but to say that "many of the people playing sfc: 2 or op are sfb fans who do not like or refuse to play sfc3 because it does not adhear to the sfb rule set" is misleading and an obfuscation of the entire truth. Oh and I don't recall being wrong the first time.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:56:32 pm »

let me put it this way - and i think its best left at this for everyone's sake. you have a strong belief about things and i have a strong belief about things.

i base my beliefs on what i see and hear as im sure you do. the only way to prove either case is a sampling. take a sampling of the op/eaw players and im pretty sure what i am saying pans out - as that is the vast majority of what is left. sample sfc3 players and im sure you will find what im saying true as well..

that said, i would challenge you to take sfc2 or op and put it through the same political garbage sfc3 has went through and see how many people would be playing it at the same point - with no official patch and no demo (lets see here - that takes away plasma D and a few other toys immediately).. i think sfc3 has weathered the storm rather well to this point and thank goodness for the desire of people like pelican and korah. what it needs is fairness - but it will never get that. not with activision, and certainly not with some of the individuals around here.

the only equalizer i hope is that taldren shows its usual customer support and releases some sort of another beta patch that takes care of issues.

btw, at 2 am, last time i was on sfc3 playing TNZ - there were about 100 folk on the d3 patched.. i dont know the population of patched servers.. and most of those people are playing tnz and dw.. i think that says somthing 2 ways.. 1) the game is a lot stronger and more people like it than what you think or want to believe.. 2) the game needs a patch and a few updates - which i wish taldren were able to do (and needs to do).

look, i support the op patching process - it needed it badly and i hope they fix the ctds. the least you could do is support an sfc3 patch and that process.

thanks.

FireSoul · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:08:00 pm »

Nanners,
Go hijack a different thread.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:17:16 pm »

who hijacked who FS? look. enjoy the op patch - i support it, but i grow tired of the brick throwing against sfc3.. this thread is about an SFC3 patch and need for it.. (and the lack of support) i wasnt the one who basically is telling the other one its irrelevant. so i ask you to not hijack the thread.

thanks.

Corbomite · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:19:33 pm »

I never said people didn't like SFC3 Nanner, I was just refuting your blatantly one sided comment about SFB players and their game choices. As usual you spin everything to your way of thinking and no one else is entitled their opinion. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #23 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:24:43 pm »

you are entitled to your opinion, corbo, no one is disputing that. not me, no one is.. what i am disputing is this whole notion that people are leaving sfc3 to sfc2.. it is both my experience and knowledge that those who stuck with sfc2/op mostly did it because they enjoyed the sfb rule set and simply did not like the sfc3 rule set. that is the reality of the matter.

yes, it is a matter of opnion.. but it just seems that at every turn instead of being supportive - its BURN sfc3 time out of a number around here. i've had it with the misinformation. if you dont like the game, dont play it.. but at least try to be supportive of those of us who do.

sfc3 has gotten the shaft - and im tired of it.

what i dont get is why those of us who can support both (i support patching op and making it work - as i think anyone with common sense does)- but it generally seems that those who play sfc2 and op would rather see the lack of support for sfc3 - than support what is right and needs to be done.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #26 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:53:47 pm »

it was most certainly not a derisive comment.. you took a very, very basic statment and twisted.. reread my comment.. it is truthful and is most certainly not anti anything.. i simply pointed out a fact - most of the people playing op and sfc2 are sfb folk . that is the reality of the matter.. that is a neutral statment which attempts to answer the individuals question to why some are still playing sfc2 and op. where did i say that they were refusing to play sfc3 and were sabatoging it? i didnt - you made that up in your mind (like many other comments i have seen attributed to my self which were blantantly false).

reread the statment slowly if you have to. geeze.

if you have been paying attention the last few weeks what i have maintained (and it is the truth) is that people play different games and yes, it is completely subjective.. and it is their opinion - and we should leave it at that. it does not meant that if someone plays sfc2 they cannot like sfc3 and vise versta.

that said, however, sfc3 has recieved the shaft - and that is what this thread is about. you may not like sfc3 - and that is completely upto you - but the one thing i simply ask is to support a proper patching process.. again, i ask you this simple question.. how would you like to play sfc2 or op straight out of the box - the same way sfc3 has been treated. see my point?

thanks.

Corbomite · « **Reply #28 on:** July 24, 2003, 12:45:38 am »

I can't wait for the official patch to come out so I can try the game again and hopefully like it enough to play it. I did play SFC2 out of the box and have waited almost 3 years for it to be "fixed". SFC3 hasn't even been out a year and will probably be fixed in one real patch. You call that being shafted? We're up to what, 7 patches for SFC2? OP sat and sat and was felt to be abandoned until the last few months so save the wounded routine. We've lost more players due to delays and politics than you had for all of SFC3. People complaining that SFC3 needs to be modded to be right is almost laughable (see original post in the thread). I was under the impression that's what most players wanted it to be like, then when admins run with it, it's "thank God for these great people that saved our game"? They are doing what SFC3 was intended for, modability. Taldren will release the final patch for SFC3, of that you can be sure. I hope you don't have to wait 3 years for it like the rest of us have.

Reverend · « **Reply #29 on:** July 24, 2003, 01:10:48 am »

I couldn't hold out any longer... orry. Allow me to attempt to ruin this thread, but attempt to keep from flaming all of my friends in here... which, LOL, is most if not all of you. The Altar Of SFB is not getting near the pew filling I expected it to.. but we'll change that. Corbomite, Fiewsoul, and Nanner, you've all been hitting like Joe Dimaggio at the last game of a season... but let me remind you that it is true that there are a lot of people coming to SFB; oh, I mean SFC2, OP, and 1, because they are not getting the fufillment of a finished product... similar to the pains of adolescence that apparently all SFB fans feel for the continuity of thier lives... they have no control over anything, so they find this fantasy game where it is controlled incessantly, overabundantly, repetatively, and meritriculously by anal-retentive little bitty rules. Rules that kept you form going into reverse,changed only recently only because the developers probrobly were yelled at by their mother(s) upstairs for creating a game where you can exceed the speed of light by great factors, but can't go backwards a foot a minute. SFC3 had a great tactical platform to base off of, but stretched it to fit people who are not victims of obsessive-compulsive disorders, i.e., normal people who like for things to bahave 'naturally'.
SFC3 may be losing people because it doesn't have the same factors that other space sims have, a continual and persistant universe, and more control over thier ship. You just don't realize how much nnot being stuck in clausterphobic little hexes has on people. Majes them bored. People do not want to play a game where everything is pretend, when you play a video game, you are already pretending; it is difficult and toilious for most to have to extend beyond that. How do I know or care that I am at a starbase relilling on premium, getting troops, when I can't even see the ship?
The SFC series made its final failure with the lack of production, work, and short-sightedness of its parent company, gay-ass Activision. Had EA, or CCP, or anyone else large made SFC3, it would have had a persistent universe, no hex map, and would have sold extensively, still holding onto SFB basics- be they (in full form) naseatingly rulebook-oriented, but still very effective in light doses. SFC3 did not fail, SFB worshippers, because it wasn't based on SFB. Realize that, and your whole lives open up before you...
If wishes came true, I'd wish for another game called SFC4:OP2, and one called SFC4: Starship Captain ( or whatever for both). First one, it'd be a almost duplicate of SFC:OP, with more SFB canon races- the WYN, the Andromedans, etc., with apporpriate SFB setting that I see were missed... adding some extra moddablilty for Firesoul's sake. Something to that effect... no pirates, except Orion and a little faction action... jsut extra races that we apparently missed out on- SFB races all seem the same to me anyhow.... this one gets drones, this one get drones and +5 modifers becasue they have magical feet in the females...
The other simotaneous release, would take off where SFC3 should have begun, but didn't. It would behave with a consistent universe- you access a map (with a drop down hex map for dunces) that displayed the 'known' or explored unverse, and its landmarks or starsystems..... target one, its course is laid out... hit the "W" key, and the ship jumps to warp.... it would be as though you are in a continuous battle- no idiot map, no magical base refilling screens.... you could find your friends and physically fly up to them... the entiriety of those logged onto a server could be right next to the same planet- deosnt seem to bother other games servers... I was trying Eve Genesis online, and I couldn't see a planet because there was too many people's ships on front of it- I had landed into a full-scale war!
Sucha game has many many missions... some can be found on a intra-net BBS server, some just by being somewhere. Refits are a good start for SFC3.... it can make anyone feel unique by building their won ship- too bad it was so limited. Interface could have been expounded upon by great factors... it would have made it all the more playable.
The reason people bought and play SFC3 is because it was BASED on a sound but overdone system.... but it was only half completed. The reson they try other games is because any person you ever meet on the street will have at least heard of Star Trek.... and SFC3 was the closest we have come to a good Star Trek game. I was overjoyed and simultaneously despondent becuase I saw how SFC played, but that it was based soley off of SFB, which I had then recently given up because it was so bloody dull. I have since been disappointed that I thought that the SFB crowd would have been satisfied by having three games to choose from, only to find out the developers were just playing around anyhow.
Ever since SFC3 came out, a deviation from TOTAL SFB, it has been hammered for the most hideously wrong reasons. It ddin't sell because it was half-completed, not because it didn't have enough SFB in it. My biggest laugh will be when there is another Star Trek gmae made, and its just like stupid Bridge Commander... what a waste of time and money for Pete's sake.
If there are fans around of it, I'm sorry, but that was just like every other Star Trek game (besides SFC series), a miserable tease... nothing more.
In conclusion, I am not saying I hate SFB. I am saying that SFC series was good, but lets somehow see what happens when you make a consistent/persistent universe with the SFC3 battle style- it had just enough SFB in it to give it stability and temperance, but didnt make me feel confined... when I play a SFC3 battle, for just a split second, I really feel like I am flying a huge, complex starship... until the mission ends, or I see the same planet I saw four times ago, not to mention the sun- I feel like I have made no progress when I look at that miserable little hexmap either. Oh, my. look. One little hex is flipped. What does that mean? A hex? Who lives there? There ws no odd little plaent or comet or whatever that makes me remember which one is the next- its barely even numbered! Why can't I trade a little to keep from getting smeared in my little beginning ship?
Yes, I know that there are other spaceship games that will do that, and no, I won't go play them for good. This was out seemingly only chance at having a good Star Trek game, and it was half-assed. Not only that, but the ones who got their 3 specially -tailored games are STILL COMPLAINING. Everyone who was lookingfor a good ST game found SFC, and found it to be dull and too confining. SFC3 came out, promised all this, and gave nothing more than an easier (see more canon to TV show ) version of the same old joke... a bad joke.

Cleaven · « **Reply #30 on:** July 24, 2003, 01:22:16 am »

The bartender is no longer allowed to serve the rambling drunk at the end of the bar.

At least not until he sobers up, and does some spell checking. (toilious???? indeed)

Reverend · « **Reply #31 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:08:01 am »

toilous.. ah.. like 'to toll'?No good...I still wouldn't figure you'd drop to spelling calls Corbo.. hit harder next time my friend. Just hoping, not rambling... maybe having two differnet releases would alleviate our mutual distaste for the same entities.

ActiveX · « **Reply #32 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:08:44 am »

I personally think SFC in general would have been more of a hit if it hadn't been so much based on SFB as it should have been 'real' Trek...

Reverend · « **Reply #33 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:22:37 am »

Corbo, silly me- Cleaven I meant. Again, just as I have stated, you're just another control freak. SFC2OP is jpractically ust fine- it is chock full of good ol' Amercian SFB SOB material... I can imagine the stars themselves weeping for your pains.... ''oh lordy, why don't I have this or that'' .... maybe to be able to boot the game you should like to have a little graphic dice rolling whether or not you made a proper saving throw vs. emotional stability. You are among the most melodramatic person I have seen here yet. Keep wailing, I bet SFC2OP gets a patch before 3 does.... I really don't see all that much difference between them actually, except less SFB in part 3... of course SFC3 has less everything in general. It didn't ''fix all'', and no one will say that it will... it was a bigger disappointment than the others were, in perspective. Your arguments spin in circles, and you continuoulsy fall, in time, to slanderous insults instead of points of fact. I put all sorts of quotables in here, so0 I'm sure the next post will have more of the same inane little anal-retentive weak-minded little quotes and responses like you are so ood at doing.. so befitting of great intelligence. Pleae, argue more, you only serve to increase my point.
The only real thing I was trying to say before you got me all fired up was that SFC3 has seen better playability only because it had used SFB as a base to operate from- it took the most pertient rules, but changed some other for playablitly... if it had went further, not only half-heartedly, it'd have sold more, and kept your interest as well... at least a little longer. Sorry if I upset you.

ActiveX · « **Reply #35 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:27:57 am »

Glad you think its funny...

ActiveX · « **Reply #37 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:47:05 am »

Thus the reason I put 'real' in quotes...

FireSoul · « **Reply #38 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:56:29 am »

This is the song that never ends..
.. it goes on and on my friends..

kiloton · « **Reply #43 on:** July 24, 2003, 06:34:11 am »

I find it incredibly funny that several people on this board hold the following opinions and see no conflict:

1) Shut up all you SFB people, there are only really a few of you and you are far and away the minority here

and

2) You SFB people have ruined SFC3 by refusing to play it since it is not based on SFB

I like SFC2 and was very excited about SFC3. I played SFC3 for about a week before removing it and saying I would get back to it later. Later has not come. I am glad some people enjoy it but I did not. No crime there for either side.

It would be nice to see SFC3 get the support ANY game deserves, which it has not gotten as of yet. This lawsuit thing is sadly only going to make that worse.

Ken

ActiveX · « **Reply #44 on:** July 24, 2003, 07:13:16 am »

I am in no way defending SFC3, in my opinion that is a cluster....

Anyhow, as for SFB, it doesnt even make sense when compared to 80% of the rest of Trek...

Just because there has never been a truely great trek game is no excuse to base one off something that as far as Im concerned bastardizes trek...

But hey, Im not here to sway any of you...that would be like telling a Star Wars fan that SWG is just an alien Deer Hunter click game that you pay a subscription for...

You cant possibly see it from my view if you are hardcore SFB, because to you SFB is the best way...am I right or wrong?

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #46 on:** July 24, 2003, 09:58:11 am »

And to get back to topic....

Taldren didnt make SFC (any SFC) moddable as a sales tool (meaning some modder would make it better ,thus increasing sales)....they did it AS A REQUESTED FEATURE....

They could have just as easily constructed the game so that ANY change to ANYTHING would simply cause the game to crash....

Taldren is one of the very few companies that responds to customer desires by simply asking what the customer wants....

Market forces may have dictated what SFC3 became......but Taldren constructed the game in such a way to let the customer change it as they saw fit.........

Lepton1 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 24, 2003, 10:29:08 am »

May I ask in what way SFC3 supporters feel SFC3 is not a completed game or needs patching?? I played the hell out of the TNZ mod, many 24 hour plus sessions, using the beta patch. I saw no incidences of CTDs or other show-stopping bugs. So what's the problem?? OP has been relatively unplayable D2 wise for years. That finally has been fixed. I really don't know what SFC3 players have to complain about. Better graphics engine. Better dynaverse. More modability. Be happy with what you have got. SFC3 was a far more complete game out of the box than any other SFC title in the series. I think you guys need a bit of a reality check. Could someone post a list of these supposed patch issues for SFC3? By the way I am sure that SFC2 players could match that list item for item for problems. The beta patch is the patch for SFC3. If there are no major issues with the beta patch, then that's the one people should be using. And from my experience the beta patch is just fine.

ActiveX · « **Reply #48 on:** July 24, 2003, 11:21:09 am »

Somehow I knew you would tear my post up and make cute little colors and faces...

But hey, I dun have to do that to say what I mean...

Anyhow, I'd say the TOS, TNG era TV shows were the closest to 'real' Trek anything will ever get...

Don't forget, Trek isnt about a TV show, game, or movie, its a sci-fantasy...created by one man to be shared with everyone...

GG

Ifrit · « **Reply #52 on:** July 24, 2003, 11:41:26 am »

I stopped playing SFC3 when it became apparent that the D3 wasn't intended for customers without DSL or cable modems -- has that changed? If it has, I might try SFC3 again (although in my opinion it is rather dull compared to SFC2).

I would certainly play it if it supported ANISOTROPIC MIPMA--<TWO PAGE RANT DELETED>--ould improve the appearance of the ships!

Dogmatix! · « **Reply #55 on:** July 24, 2003, 03:38:56 pm »

ROFL...good stuff, as always, Holocat.

Reverend · « **Reply #56 on:** July 24, 2003, 04:01:00 pm »

Holocat, you have this ability to completely go off course subject-wise, but somehow its so funny that it ties itself back in! LOL...

Cleavan, your weak-minded attempts at return arguments reflect your super-inflated ego had difficulty in being forced to learn in college, and many other parts of yourt life... I do not knowwhat makes you think I would drink, nor why I would want to hit you in your face.... the points at which you emphasize, having nothing to do with the original series of statements, incriminates you. It is going to seem to people that you are an alchoholic that gets beat up quite a bit because of his mouth. I really hope that you are not this person we are beginning to see. I also do hope you know a healthy debate when you see one; it will help you in the future... no one's calling you a a-hole, or telling you you're going to hell, or saying you are a stupid person because of you likes and dislikes- I am just challenging your opinion, just as you are so want to do likewise. Try not to take things so personally, okay?

P.S SFB sucks. ha ha

ActiveX · « **Reply #60 on:** July 24, 2003, 05:38:10 pm »

Gorramit Holocat...you stole the antimatter flow from my warp core...

pimo1 · « **Reply #61 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:14:19 pm »

I have read these forums since the day I bought my copy of sfc3 and before then I bought and played sfc 1 and 2 and pretty much every other game that has Star Trek in the name. I realize that Taldren is not the developer for all the Star trek games and in a way this post is about everyone involved in the Star Trek games past present and future.

Recently I was in frostworks and noticed an announcement that Chris Jones was retiring from modding. His reasons were the best...(taking care of home) but in a way the fact that people like chris jones get absolutely nothing for these mods/ships they slave over. I mean if you took away the moddersthese games would not be making money at all. That's not even something that can be questioned. The driving force behind all these games has always been the modding community. Id dare say that 80% of all the people who played the game through more htan once and continue the play the game online oor offline have or have had mo'ds of some sort. As far as the hardcore players the number would be higher and most would find the plain vanilla games boring.

I'm not saying that everyone puke that drops of a mod or ship deserves a job.. but some have been heere and pretty much carried these games on their backs. Look at SFC3 and OP with the huge delays in patches... the only reason players stuck around long enough for the patches is the modders.

In the least give these guys some real credit for the sacrifices some of them have made to make this these games greater than they are out of the box. I know for a fact that sfc3 out of the box is a piece of crap compared to the modded versions. Look at it people are still playing OP <--- thats insane. When madden 2k4 comes out no one will be playing 2k3.. look at the boards there are barely posts on sfc3. The patch has been on hold for so long I have no frigging idea. You guys could have at least put together a band-aid cobbled together from some of the mod's out there.. instead we have a crappy beta patch that is a BETA patch after how long? Months? Is it over a year yet?

I guess my main point is it's cool that you guys are trying ot make this patch perfect (if thats whats happening). Whats not cool is all the nothing going on in between. You guys could get with the modders throw them a few bucks and add new content saving loads on development. With the super guys out here you guys could have already made a frigging expansion. If you guys had made an expansion pack slapped a 15-20 buck charge on it and all it contained was the equivilent of the patch we have now and the Dominion Wars mod or Chris Jones mod even the TNZ mod... all of those added a huge amount of content to the game new idea's and to some extent functionality. Now imagine if those had been officially integrated. Just an idea.

Sorry for the long post but I have waited this long to speak my piece so planned to get it all out. It's just my opinion and maybe no one else feels that way.. I just thought it was something that needed saying.

vsfedwards · « **Reply #62 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:54:16 pm »

WOW powerful words buddy, but the reason i think that they wouldnt do that is because its cheaper for them the way its going now, they make a patch every year or so to reassure you that their doing something whilst the ppl who attract all the gamers (the modders that is) indireclty give them a lot of money, ppl realise that there are mods being made for these games buy them, the makers of the game get a bunch of notes ( a big bunch may i add) and they didnt have to do any work for it lol, well thats what i think anyway

NannerSlug · « **Reply #63 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:55:26 pm »

start a petition drive to activision.. that is the core of a lot of issues with sfc3 patching.

FireSoul · « **Reply #64 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:57:44 pm »

.. but sad would be the day when modders would do these things for money.
.. no, it's being done because it's fun, and passes on the fun to others.

-- Luc

vsfedwards · « **Reply #65 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:57:57 pm »

lol nanner now you sound like day - no offence if you read this day - "lets boycott star trek" lol

NannerSlug · « **Reply #66 on:** July 22, 2003, 07:20:21 pm »

yeah, mods are done out of the desire to spin the game into our own vision of what is fun and what not.. that said, i might sound like day indeed.. i just know that at the core of the issue with the patch being official lies with activision. in light of the timing of the lawsuit and everything i have got to wonder. i just really, really wish that some how, some way they would give a darn and ask taldren to finish up (or at very least make official what is now beta) the 3 patch.

thats not to say the present patch is perfect, because we need a very least a "beta3" patch... but i fear that nothing will be done because of the politics/lawsuit.

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #68 on:** July 22, 2003, 08:30:32 pm »

I've always wondered what the legal difference is between someone or some company making a custom exhaust system etc. for a Ford Mustang, for example, which is perfectly legal to sell. If someone makes a custom model, etc. for a game though, and tries to sell it, that's copyright infringement. What's the difference?

wilfbrim · « **Reply #69 on:** July 23, 2003, 12:07:23 am »

Actually, it is a very good suggestion. If taldren could formulate a way to work with Activision and have expansion packs and modding packs, where the less than savvy people coulld do such things and use their ships, it might work very well. It would also allow more personal interaction with the game. I would think it also might set a wjhole new tone for game development, where a "structure" to a game is made, and then a variety of missions/options would be available as add on packs. Some what like Microsoft, where you pay 100.00 for an OS, then hundreds more for the tech support, upgrades, add ons, programs, etc to do what you really want. Come on Taldren, get with it! Join the great american Business System! Only, I still refuse to pay for tech support.... damn thing should work first time out.....

TheSatyr · « **Reply #70 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:55:25 am »

Viacom would sue the crap out of anyone that made a mod and tried to sell it.

Star Trek is their intellectual property...and while they are nice enough to let people mod their games for free,they have made it clear that they will stomp on anyone who tries to make money off of a mod.

FireSoul · « **Reply #71 on:** July 23, 2003, 02:27:06 am »

Bingo.
.. if people want to send money to modders for some of their efforts? Fine.
.. but for the mods themselves? Not fine.

pimo1 · « **Reply #72 on:** July 23, 2003, 02:43:54 pm »

I think there was a misinterpretation of my meaning. I don';t think mod's should be sold I just think that the companies should look closely at the modding community for idea's.

The simple question is, if it wasn't for mod's how many of you would have played SFC3 this long? Personally I would have thrown it in a corner after the 7 days it took me to beat the official campaign on all 3 settings. What about SFC 2 and 1? Those games lived off the mod's.. at the very least they should be giving recognition. They could do like book authors and set aside a small space on the box for some of the more die hard modders. Because doing it free or not these guys are putting money in Activision and Taldrens (and whoever else put's out a Star trek game) pockets.

I'm not the butt kissing type so i'll say it straight out. IF NOT FOR MODDERS THE STAR TREK GAMES WOULD NOT SELL. Especially the SFC series. ESPECIALLY SFC3. Simply because these games, out of the box, have about 0 replay value. As far as online multiplayer, as I understand it most people play on modded servers.

No it would not be right for me to go make a mod and try selling it. But in a way SFC is like a buying a Hummer with a 4 cylinder engine and 2 wheel drive and 14inch wheels. It will run but thats about it. In the end the way they are marketting the Star trek games (and movies) is gonna kill the franchise. They need to drop the word "canon" from their vocabulary. They need to take what they have and build on that. SFC has a hugely faithful modding community. Do like games like NWN and build on that. Make the mod's the base of the game. Sure there are lot's of diehard fans but those are dying off (literally) The Star Trek franchise has to move forward or it's gonna die. But like most good things they will sit on their laurels and hope the geeks will still support. Eventually even geeks get bored of wearing the same stupid ears and silly hair dryer phaser cannons.

AdmiralFrey_XC · « **Reply #73 on:** July 23, 2003, 03:13:13 pm »

I don't agree with the statement that without mods the SFC series would not sell.

That's crazy logic. And the fact that you said "people are still playing OP <--- that's insane" makes me wonder how much you've actually played OP.

SFC3 is getting the rough end of the stick right now because - IMHO - Activision is P'O'ed over the fact that they thought they were buying into a "cash cow" enterprise, but with how Berman / Braga has ruined the legacy that was Star Trek what do you expect? Most of the hardcore ST fans have all but thrown their hands up in frustration because of Berman / Braga's complete lack of regard for historical cannon, as well as series cannon.

The SFC series of games have been the BEST - while SFC3 is different - in regards to starship combat, and porting over SFB style play to the world of the PC.

I completely agree that the mod makers are what makes this game - and community - so bloody interesting and fun. So here's a big THANK YOU to everyone that's ever contributed to our community!

Regards,

NannerSlug · « **Reply #75 on:** July 23, 2003, 09:31:05 pm »

pimo, you do not understand the politics of sfc series.

many of the people playing sfc: 2 or op are sfb fans who do not like or refuse to play sfc3 because it does not adhear to the sfb rule set. it is that simple.

now, i completely agree with you about the whole patch fiasco.. i can tell you that taldren did try to release at least 2 beta patches (one immediately) - but activision had taldren pull one due to certain political issues. a few weeks go by and a official patch is released. the main reason why it was not made official is because of modem issues which was found by ativi qa. (i think thats what was posted)

so, the "official" patch right now is in limbo until taldren finishes Black 9 (paying work)..

i whole heartedly agree that sfc3 has been - and is currently being - given the shaft. i am beginning to be very, very synical and wonder if things were held off until the lawsuit was activated.

in any case, i feel like if people, truly wanted to support sfc3 - they would have actively pursued taldren to release even what they felt like was official patch stuff. they didnt and it isnt there and now an official patch is in doubt for sure. personally, there are a few issues which are under my skin right now about the whole timing issue of certain things - but there isnt one darned thing i can do about it except email folks at taldren and activision.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #77 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:06:31 pm »

wrong again corbomite.. that is what you may wish for - but the vast majority of those playing sfc2/op are doing so because of the sfb rule set. it is that black and white. for what its worth.. if i am painting with a wide brush, you are paiting with an electric air brush (wagner power painter, baby).

infact, hardly anyone was playing OP until the patch - and most of those are sfc2 folk moving to op (belately) because of a few fixes which were needed. dont confuse the facts.

thanks.

FireSoul · « **Reply #78 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:13:04 pm »

No nanners..
I've noticed SFC3 players coming to play SFC:OP.. for their first time.

Corbomite · « **Reply #79 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:21:28 pm »

Nice to know the universe according to Nanner is still going strong. I have never seen or heard anyone playing SFC2 and not SFC3 say it was just because of the rules set. There are many playing both that acknowledge that they are just different games. Many, like me, just don't find SFC3 intriguing, regardless of rules set. I'm sure there are players that just like the SFB type rules more, but to say that "many of the people playing sfc: 2 or op are sfb fans who do not like or refuse to play sfc3 because it does not adhear to the sfb rule set" is misleading and an obfuscation of the entire truth. Oh and I don't recall being wrong the first time.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #80 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:56:32 pm »

let me put it this way - and i think its best left at this for everyone's sake. you have a strong belief about things and i have a strong belief about things.

i base my beliefs on what i see and hear as im sure you do. the only way to prove either case is a sampling. take a sampling of the op/eaw players and im pretty sure what i am saying pans out - as that is the vast majority of what is left. sample sfc3 players and im sure you will find what im saying true as well..

that said, i would challenge you to take sfc2 or op and put it through the same political garbage sfc3 has went through and see how many people would be playing it at the same point - with no official patch and no demo (lets see here - that takes away plasma D and a few other toys immediately).. i think sfc3 has weathered the storm rather well to this point and thank goodness for the desire of people like pelican and korah. what it needs is fairness - but it will never get that. not with activision, and certainly not with some of the individuals around here.

the only equalizer i hope is that taldren shows its usual customer support and releases some sort of another beta patch that takes care of issues.

btw, at 2 am, last time i was on sfc3 playing TNZ - there were about 100 folk on the d3 patched.. i dont know the population of patched servers.. and most of those people are playing tnz and dw.. i think that says somthing 2 ways.. 1) the game is a lot stronger and more people like it than what you think or want to believe.. 2) the game needs a patch and a few updates - which i wish taldren were able to do (and needs to do).

look, i support the op patching process - it needed it badly and i hope they fix the ctds. the least you could do is support an sfc3 patch and that process.

thanks.

FireSoul · « **Reply #81 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:08:00 pm »

Nanners,
Go hijack a different thread.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #82 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:17:16 pm »

who hijacked who FS? look. enjoy the op patch - i support it, but i grow tired of the brick throwing against sfc3.. this thread is about an SFC3 patch and need for it.. (and the lack of support) i wasnt the one who basically is telling the other one its irrelevant. so i ask you to not hijack the thread.

thanks.

Corbomite · « **Reply #83 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:19:33 pm »

I never said people didn't like SFC3 Nanner, I was just refuting your blatantly one sided comment about SFB players and their game choices. As usual you spin everything to your way of thinking and no one else is entitled their opinion. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #84 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:24:43 pm »

you are entitled to your opinion, corbo, no one is disputing that. not me, no one is.. what i am disputing is this whole notion that people are leaving sfc3 to sfc2.. it is both my experience and knowledge that those who stuck with sfc2/op mostly did it because they enjoyed the sfb rule set and simply did not like the sfc3 rule set. that is the reality of the matter.

yes, it is a matter of opnion.. but it just seems that at every turn instead of being supportive - its BURN sfc3 time out of a number around here. i've had it with the misinformation. if you dont like the game, dont play it.. but at least try to be supportive of those of us who do.

sfc3 has gotten the shaft - and im tired of it.

what i dont get is why those of us who can support both (i support patching op and making it work - as i think anyone with common sense does)- but it generally seems that those who play sfc2 and op would rather see the lack of support for sfc3 - than support what is right and needs to be done.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #87 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:53:47 pm »

it was most certainly not a derisive comment.. you took a very, very basic statment and twisted.. reread my comment.. it is truthful and is most certainly not anti anything.. i simply pointed out a fact - most of the people playing op and sfc2 are sfb folk . that is the reality of the matter.. that is a neutral statment which attempts to answer the individuals question to why some are still playing sfc2 and op. where did i say that they were refusing to play sfc3 and were sabatoging it? i didnt - you made that up in your mind (like many other comments i have seen attributed to my self which were blantantly false).

reread the statment slowly if you have to. geeze.

if you have been paying attention the last few weeks what i have maintained (and it is the truth) is that people play different games and yes, it is completely subjective.. and it is their opinion - and we should leave it at that. it does not meant that if someone plays sfc2 they cannot like sfc3 and vise versta.

that said, however, sfc3 has recieved the shaft - and that is what this thread is about. you may not like sfc3 - and that is completely upto you - but the one thing i simply ask is to support a proper patching process.. again, i ask you this simple question.. how would you like to play sfc2 or op straight out of the box - the same way sfc3 has been treated. see my point?

thanks.

Corbomite · « **Reply #89 on:** July 24, 2003, 12:45:38 am »

I can't wait for the official patch to come out so I can try the game again and hopefully like it enough to play it. I did play SFC2 out of the box and have waited almost 3 years for it to be "fixed". SFC3 hasn't even been out a year and will probably be fixed in one real patch. You call that being shafted? We're up to what, 7 patches for SFC2? OP sat and sat and was felt to be abandoned until the last few months so save the wounded routine. We've lost more players due to delays and politics than you had for all of SFC3. People complaining that SFC3 needs to be modded to be right is almost laughable (see original post in the thread). I was under the impression that's what most players wanted it to be like, then when admins run with it, it's "thank God for these great people that saved our game"? They are doing what SFC3 was intended for, modability. Taldren will release the final patch for SFC3, of that you can be sure. I hope you don't have to wait 3 years for it like the rest of us have.

Reverend · « **Reply #90 on:** July 24, 2003, 01:10:48 am »

I couldn't hold out any longer... orry. Allow me to attempt to ruin this thread, but attempt to keep from flaming all of my friends in here... which, LOL, is most if not all of you. The Altar Of SFB is not getting near the pew filling I expected it to.. but we'll change that. Corbomite, Fiewsoul, and Nanner, you've all been hitting like Joe Dimaggio at the last game of a season... but let me remind you that it is true that there are a lot of people coming to SFB; oh, I mean SFC2, OP, and 1, because they are not getting the fufillment of a finished product... similar to the pains of adolescence that apparently all SFB fans feel for the continuity of thier lives... they have no control over anything, so they find this fantasy game where it is controlled incessantly, overabundantly, repetatively, and meritriculously by anal-retentive little bitty rules. Rules that kept you form going into reverse,changed only recently only because the developers probrobly were yelled at by their mother(s) upstairs for creating a game where you can exceed the speed of light by great factors, but can't go backwards a foot a minute. SFC3 had a great tactical platform to base off of, but stretched it to fit people who are not victims of obsessive-compulsive disorders, i.e., normal people who like for things to bahave 'naturally'.
SFC3 may be losing people because it doesn't have the same factors that other space sims have, a continual and persistant universe, and more control over thier ship. You just don't realize how much nnot being stuck in clausterphobic little hexes has on people. Majes them bored. People do not want to play a game where everything is pretend, when you play a video game, you are already pretending; it is difficult and toilious for most to have to extend beyond that. How do I know or care that I am at a starbase relilling on premium, getting troops, when I can't even see the ship?
The SFC series made its final failure with the lack of production, work, and short-sightedness of its parent company, gay-ass Activision. Had EA, or CCP, or anyone else large made SFC3, it would have had a persistent universe, no hex map, and would have sold extensively, still holding onto SFB basics- be they (in full form) naseatingly rulebook-oriented, but still very effective in light doses. SFC3 did not fail, SFB worshippers, because it wasn't based on SFB. Realize that, and your whole lives open up before you...
If wishes came true, I'd wish for another game called SFC4:OP2, and one called SFC4: Starship Captain ( or whatever for both). First one, it'd be a almost duplicate of SFC:OP, with more SFB canon races- the WYN, the Andromedans, etc., with apporpriate SFB setting that I see were missed... adding some extra moddablilty for Firesoul's sake. Something to that effect... no pirates, except Orion and a little faction action... jsut extra races that we apparently missed out on- SFB races all seem the same to me anyhow.... this one gets drones, this one get drones and +5 modifers becasue they have magical feet in the females...
The other simotaneous release, would take off where SFC3 should have begun, but didn't. It would behave with a consistent universe- you access a map (with a drop down hex map for dunces) that displayed the 'known' or explored unverse, and its landmarks or starsystems..... target one, its course is laid out... hit the "W" key, and the ship jumps to warp.... it would be as though you are in a continuous battle- no idiot map, no magical base refilling screens.... you could find your friends and physically fly up to them... the entiriety of those logged onto a server could be right next to the same planet- deosnt seem to bother other games servers... I was trying Eve Genesis online, and I couldn't see a planet because there was too many people's ships on front of it- I had landed into a full-scale war!
Sucha game has many many missions... some can be found on a intra-net BBS server, some just by being somewhere. Refits are a good start for SFC3.... it can make anyone feel unique by building their won ship- too bad it was so limited. Interface could have been expounded upon by great factors... it would have made it all the more playable.
The reason people bought and play SFC3 is because it was BASED on a sound but overdone system.... but it was only half completed. The reson they try other games is because any person you ever meet on the street will have at least heard of Star Trek.... and SFC3 was the closest we have come to a good Star Trek game. I was overjoyed and simultaneously despondent becuase I saw how SFC played, but that it was based soley off of SFB, which I had then recently given up because it was so bloody dull. I have since been disappointed that I thought that the SFB crowd would have been satisfied by having three games to choose from, only to find out the developers were just playing around anyhow.
Ever since SFC3 came out, a deviation from TOTAL SFB, it has been hammered for the most hideously wrong reasons. It ddin't sell because it was half-completed, not because it didn't have enough SFB in it. My biggest laugh will be when there is another Star Trek gmae made, and its just like stupid Bridge Commander... what a waste of time and money for Pete's sake.
If there are fans around of it, I'm sorry, but that was just like every other Star Trek game (besides SFC series), a miserable tease... nothing more.
In conclusion, I am not saying I hate SFB. I am saying that SFC series was good, but lets somehow see what happens when you make a consistent/persistent universe with the SFC3 battle style- it had just enough SFB in it to give it stability and temperance, but didnt make me feel confined... when I play a SFC3 battle, for just a split second, I really feel like I am flying a huge, complex starship... until the mission ends, or I see the same planet I saw four times ago, not to mention the sun- I feel like I have made no progress when I look at that miserable little hexmap either. Oh, my. look. One little hex is flipped. What does that mean? A hex? Who lives there? There ws no odd little plaent or comet or whatever that makes me remember which one is the next- its barely even numbered! Why can't I trade a little to keep from getting smeared in my little beginning ship?
Yes, I know that there are other spaceship games that will do that, and no, I won't go play them for good. This was out seemingly only chance at having a good Star Trek game, and it was half-assed. Not only that, but the ones who got their 3 specially -tailored games are STILL COMPLAINING. Everyone who was lookingfor a good ST game found SFC, and found it to be dull and too confining. SFC3 came out, promised all this, and gave nothing more than an easier (see more canon to TV show ) version of the same old joke... a bad joke.

Cleaven · « **Reply #91 on:** July 24, 2003, 01:22:16 am »

The bartender is no longer allowed to serve the rambling drunk at the end of the bar.

At least not until he sobers up, and does some spell checking. (toilious???? indeed)

Reverend · « **Reply #92 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:08:01 am »

toilous.. ah.. like 'to toll'?No good...I still wouldn't figure you'd drop to spelling calls Corbo.. hit harder next time my friend. Just hoping, not rambling... maybe having two differnet releases would alleviate our mutual distaste for the same entities.

ActiveX · « **Reply #93 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:08:44 am »

I personally think SFC in general would have been more of a hit if it hadn't been so much based on SFB as it should have been 'real' Trek...

Reverend · « **Reply #94 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:22:37 am »

Corbo, silly me- Cleaven I meant. Again, just as I have stated, you're just another control freak. SFC2OP is jpractically ust fine- it is chock full of good ol' Amercian SFB SOB material... I can imagine the stars themselves weeping for your pains.... ''oh lordy, why don't I have this or that'' .... maybe to be able to boot the game you should like to have a little graphic dice rolling whether or not you made a proper saving throw vs. emotional stability. You are among the most melodramatic person I have seen here yet. Keep wailing, I bet SFC2OP gets a patch before 3 does.... I really don't see all that much difference between them actually, except less SFB in part 3... of course SFC3 has less everything in general. It didn't ''fix all'', and no one will say that it will... it was a bigger disappointment than the others were, in perspective. Your arguments spin in circles, and you continuoulsy fall, in time, to slanderous insults instead of points of fact. I put all sorts of quotables in here, so0 I'm sure the next post will have more of the same inane little anal-retentive weak-minded little quotes and responses like you are so ood at doing.. so befitting of great intelligence. Pleae, argue more, you only serve to increase my point.
The only real thing I was trying to say before you got me all fired up was that SFC3 has seen better playability only because it had used SFB as a base to operate from- it took the most pertient rules, but changed some other for playablitly... if it had went further, not only half-heartedly, it'd have sold more, and kept your interest as well... at least a little longer. Sorry if I upset you.

ActiveX · « **Reply #96 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:27:57 am »

Glad you think its funny...

ActiveX · « **Reply #98 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:47:05 am »

Thus the reason I put 'real' in quotes...

FireSoul · « **Reply #99 on:** July 24, 2003, 02:56:29 am »

This is the song that never ends..
.. it goes on and on my friends..

kiloton · « **Reply #104 on:** July 24, 2003, 06:34:11 am »

I find it incredibly funny that several people on this board hold the following opinions and see no conflict:

1) Shut up all you SFB people, there are only really a few of you and you are far and away the minority here

and

2) You SFB people have ruined SFC3 by refusing to play it since it is not based on SFB

I like SFC2 and was very excited about SFC3. I played SFC3 for about a week before removing it and saying I would get back to it later. Later has not come. I am glad some people enjoy it but I did not. No crime there for either side.

It would be nice to see SFC3 get the support ANY game deserves, which it has not gotten as of yet. This lawsuit thing is sadly only going to make that worse.

Ken

ActiveX · « **Reply #105 on:** July 24, 2003, 07:13:16 am »

I am in no way defending SFC3, in my opinion that is a cluster....

Anyhow, as for SFB, it doesnt even make sense when compared to 80% of the rest of Trek...

Just because there has never been a truely great trek game is no excuse to base one off something that as far as Im concerned bastardizes trek...

But hey, Im not here to sway any of you...that would be like telling a Star Wars fan that SWG is just an alien Deer Hunter click game that you pay a subscription for...

You cant possibly see it from my view if you are hardcore SFB, because to you SFB is the best way...am I right or wrong?

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #107 on:** July 24, 2003, 09:58:11 am »

And to get back to topic....

Taldren didnt make SFC (any SFC) moddable as a sales tool (meaning some modder would make it better ,thus increasing sales)....they did it AS A REQUESTED FEATURE....

They could have just as easily constructed the game so that ANY change to ANYTHING would simply cause the game to crash....

Taldren is one of the very few companies that responds to customer desires by simply asking what the customer wants....

Market forces may have dictated what SFC3 became......but Taldren constructed the game in such a way to let the customer change it as they saw fit.........

Lepton1 · « **Reply #108 on:** July 24, 2003, 10:29:08 am »

May I ask in what way SFC3 supporters feel SFC3 is not a completed game or needs patching?? I played the hell out of the TNZ mod, many 24 hour plus sessions, using the beta patch. I saw no incidences of CTDs or other show-stopping bugs. So what's the problem?? OP has been relatively unplayable D2 wise for years. That finally has been fixed. I really don't know what SFC3 players have to complain about. Better graphics engine. Better dynaverse. More modability. Be happy with what you have got. SFC3 was a far more complete game out of the box than any other SFC title in the series. I think you guys need a bit of a reality check. Could someone post a list of these supposed patch issues for SFC3? By the way I am sure that SFC2 players could match that list item for item for problems. The beta patch is the patch for SFC3. If there are no major issues with the beta patch, then that's the one people should be using. And from my experience the beta patch is just fine.

ActiveX · « **Reply #109 on:** July 24, 2003, 11:21:09 am »

Somehow I knew you would tear my post up and make cute little colors and faces...

But hey, I dun have to do that to say what I mean...

Anyhow, I'd say the TOS, TNG era TV shows were the closest to 'real' Trek anything will ever get...

Don't forget, Trek isnt about a TV show, game, or movie, its a sci-fantasy...created by one man to be shared with everyone...

GG

Ifrit · « **Reply #113 on:** July 24, 2003, 11:41:26 am »

I stopped playing SFC3 when it became apparent that the D3 wasn't intended for customers without DSL or cable modems -- has that changed? If it has, I might try SFC3 again (although in my opinion it is rather dull compared to SFC2).

I would certainly play it if it supported ANISOTROPIC MIPMA--<TWO PAGE RANT DELETED>--ould improve the appearance of the ships!

Dogmatix! · « **Reply #116 on:** July 24, 2003, 03:38:56 pm »

ROFL...good stuff, as always, Holocat.

Reverend · « **Reply #117 on:** July 24, 2003, 04:01:00 pm »

Holocat, you have this ability to completely go off course subject-wise, but somehow its so funny that it ties itself back in! LOL...

Cleavan, your weak-minded attempts at return arguments reflect your super-inflated ego had difficulty in being forced to learn in college, and many other parts of yourt life... I do not knowwhat makes you think I would drink, nor why I would want to hit you in your face.... the points at which you emphasize, having nothing to do with the original series of statements, incriminates you. It is going to seem to people that you are an alchoholic that gets beat up quite a bit because of his mouth. I really hope that you are not this person we are beginning to see. I also do hope you know a healthy debate when you see one; it will help you in the future... no one's calling you a a-hole, or telling you you're going to hell, or saying you are a stupid person because of you likes and dislikes- I am just challenging your opinion, just as you are so want to do likewise. Try not to take things so personally, okay?

P.S SFB sucks. ha ha

ActiveX · « **Reply #121 on:** July 24, 2003, 05:38:10 pm »

Gorramit Holocat...you stole the antimatter flow from my warp core...

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