Topic: Dear Taldren (Read 13180 times)

pimo1 · « **on:** July 22, 2003, 06:14:19 pm »

I have read these forums since the day I bought my copy of sfc3 and before then I bought and played sfc 1 and 2 and pretty much every other game that has Star Trek in the name. I realize that Taldren is not the developer for all the Star trek games and in a way this post is about everyone involved in the Star Trek games past present and future.

Recently I was in frostworks and noticed an announcement that Chris Jones was retiring from modding. His reasons were the best...(taking care of home) but in a way the fact that people like chris jones get absolutely nothing for these mods/ships they slave over. I mean if you took away the moddersthese games would not be making money at all. That's not even something that can be questioned. The driving force behind all these games has always been the modding community. Id dare say that 80% of all the people who played the game through more htan once and continue the play the game online oor offline have or have had mo'ds of some sort. As far as the hardcore players the number would be higher and most would find the plain vanilla games boring.

I'm not saying that everyone puke that drops of a mod or ship deserves a job.. but some have been heere and pretty much carried these games on their backs. Look at SFC3 and OP with the huge delays in patches... the only reason players stuck around long enough for the patches is the modders.

In the least give these guys some real credit for the sacrifices some of them have made to make this these games greater than they are out of the box. I know for a fact that sfc3 out of the box is a piece of crap compared to the modded versions. Look at it people are still playing OP <--- thats insane. When madden 2k4 comes out no one will be playing 2k3.. look at the boards there are barely posts on sfc3. The patch has been on hold for so long I have no frigging idea. You guys could have at least put together a band-aid cobbled together from some of the mod's out there.. instead we have a crappy beta patch that is a BETA patch after how long? Months? Is it over a year yet?

I guess my main point is it's cool that you guys are trying ot make this patch perfect (if thats whats happening). Whats not cool is all the nothing going on in between. You guys could get with the modders throw them a few bucks and add new content saving loads on development. With the super guys out here you guys could have already made a frigging expansion. If you guys had made an expansion pack slapped a 15-20 buck charge on it and all it contained was the equivilent of the patch we have now and the Dominion Wars mod or Chris Jones mod even the TNZ mod... all of those added a huge amount of content to the game new idea's and to some extent functionality. Now imagine if those had been officially integrated. Just an idea.

Sorry for the long post but I have waited this long to speak my piece so planned to get it all out. It's just my opinion and maybe no one else feels that way.. I just thought it was something that needed saying.

vsfedwards · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:54:16 pm »

WOW powerful words buddy, but the reason i think that they wouldnt do that is because its cheaper for them the way its going now, they make a patch every year or so to reassure you that their doing something whilst the ppl who attract all the gamers (the modders that is) indireclty give them a lot of money, ppl realise that there are mods being made for these games buy them, the makers of the game get a bunch of notes ( a big bunch may i add) and they didnt have to do any work for it lol, well thats what i think anyway

NannerSlug · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:55:26 pm »

start a petition drive to activision.. that is the core of a lot of issues with sfc3 patching.

FireSoul · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:57:44 pm »

.. but sad would be the day when modders would do these things for money.
.. no, it's being done because it's fun, and passes on the fun to others.

-- Luc

vsfedwards · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:57:57 pm »

lol nanner now you sound like day - no offence if you read this day - "lets boycott star trek" lol

NannerSlug · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2003, 07:20:21 pm »

yeah, mods are done out of the desire to spin the game into our own vision of what is fun and what not.. that said, i might sound like day indeed.. i just know that at the core of the issue with the patch being official lies with activision. in light of the timing of the lawsuit and everything i have got to wonder. i just really, really wish that some how, some way they would give a darn and ask taldren to finish up (or at very least make official what is now beta) the 3 patch.

thats not to say the present patch is perfect, because we need a very least a "beta3" patch... but i fear that nothing will be done because of the politics/lawsuit.

vsfedwards · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2003, 07:29:04 pm »

Quote:

.. but sad would be the day when modders would do these things for money.
.. no, it's being done because it's fun, and passes on the fun to others.

-- Luc

so saying that, they practically do the same as many of the people who fiddle around with the game pre-release to sort things out, add a few extra things and tidy things up surely the modders do practically the same job but are more appreciated by the public and strangely enough not payed a lot....$0

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2003, 08:30:32 pm »

I've always wondered what the legal difference is between someone or some company making a custom exhaust system etc. for a Ford Mustang, for example, which is perfectly legal to sell. If someone makes a custom model, etc. for a game though, and tries to sell it, that's copyright infringement. What's the difference?

wilfbrim · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2003, 12:07:23 am »

Actually, it is a very good suggestion. If taldren could formulate a way to work with Activision and have expansion packs and modding packs, where the less than savvy people coulld do such things and use their ships, it might work very well. It would also allow more personal interaction with the game. I would think it also might set a wjhole new tone for game development, where a "structure" to a game is made, and then a variety of missions/options would be available as add on packs. Some what like Microsoft, where you pay 100.00 for an OS, then hundreds more for the tech support, upgrades, add ons, programs, etc to do what you really want. Come on Taldren, get with it! Join the great american Business System! Only, I still refuse to pay for tech support.... damn thing should work first time out.....

TheSatyr · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:55:25 am »

Viacom would sue the crap out of anyone that made a mod and tried to sell it.

Star Trek is their intellectual property...and while they are nice enough to let people mod their games for free,they have made it clear that they will stomp on anyone who tries to make money off of a mod.

FireSoul · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2003, 02:27:06 am »

Bingo.
.. if people want to send money to modders for some of their efforts? Fine.
.. but for the mods themselves? Not fine.

pimo1 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2003, 02:43:54 pm »

I think there was a misinterpretation of my meaning. I don';t think mod's should be sold I just think that the companies should look closely at the modding community for idea's.

The simple question is, if it wasn't for mod's how many of you would have played SFC3 this long? Personally I would have thrown it in a corner after the 7 days it took me to beat the official campaign on all 3 settings. What about SFC 2 and 1? Those games lived off the mod's.. at the very least they should be giving recognition. They could do like book authors and set aside a small space on the box for some of the more die hard modders. Because doing it free or not these guys are putting money in Activision and Taldrens (and whoever else put's out a Star trek game) pockets.

I'm not the butt kissing type so i'll say it straight out. IF NOT FOR MODDERS THE STAR TREK GAMES WOULD NOT SELL. Especially the SFC series. ESPECIALLY SFC3. Simply because these games, out of the box, have about 0 replay value. As far as online multiplayer, as I understand it most people play on modded servers.

No it would not be right for me to go make a mod and try selling it. But in a way SFC is like a buying a Hummer with a 4 cylinder engine and 2 wheel drive and 14inch wheels. It will run but thats about it. In the end the way they are marketting the Star trek games (and movies) is gonna kill the franchise. They need to drop the word "canon" from their vocabulary. They need to take what they have and build on that. SFC has a hugely faithful modding community. Do like games like NWN and build on that. Make the mod's the base of the game. Sure there are lot's of diehard fans but those are dying off (literally) The Star Trek franchise has to move forward or it's gonna die. But like most good things they will sit on their laurels and hope the geeks will still support. Eventually even geeks get bored of wearing the same stupid ears and silly hair dryer phaser cannons.

AdmiralFrey_XC · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2003, 03:13:13 pm »

I don't agree with the statement that without mods the SFC series would not sell.

That's crazy logic. And the fact that you said "people are still playing OP <--- that's insane" makes me wonder how much you've actually played OP.

SFC3 is getting the rough end of the stick right now because - IMHO - Activision is P'O'ed over the fact that they thought they were buying into a "cash cow" enterprise, but with how Berman / Braga has ruined the legacy that was Star Trek what do you expect? Most of the hardcore ST fans have all but thrown their hands up in frustration because of Berman / Braga's complete lack of regard for historical cannon, as well as series cannon.

The SFC series of games have been the BEST - while SFC3 is different - in regards to starship combat, and porting over SFB style play to the world of the PC.

I completely agree that the mod makers are what makes this game - and community - so bloody interesting and fun. So here's a big THANK YOU to everyone that's ever contributed to our community!

Regards,

NannerSlug · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2003, 09:31:05 pm »

pimo, you do not understand the politics of sfc series.

many of the people playing sfc: 2 or op are sfb fans who do not like or refuse to play sfc3 because it does not adhear to the sfb rule set. it is that simple.

now, i completely agree with you about the whole patch fiasco.. i can tell you that taldren did try to release at least 2 beta patches (one immediately) - but activision had taldren pull one due to certain political issues. a few weeks go by and a official patch is released. the main reason why it was not made official is because of modem issues which was found by ativi qa. (i think thats what was posted)

so, the "official" patch right now is in limbo until taldren finishes Black 9 (paying work)..

i whole heartedly agree that sfc3 has been - and is currently being - given the shaft. i am beginning to be very, very synical and wonder if things were held off until the lawsuit was activated.

in any case, i feel like if people, truly wanted to support sfc3 - they would have actively pursued taldren to release even what they felt like was official patch stuff. they didnt and it isnt there and now an official patch is in doubt for sure. personally, there are a few issues which are under my skin right now about the whole timing issue of certain things - but there isnt one darned thing i can do about it except email folks at taldren and activision.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:06:31 pm »

wrong again corbomite.. that is what you may wish for - but the vast majority of those playing sfc2/op are doing so because of the sfb rule set. it is that black and white. for what its worth.. if i am painting with a wide brush, you are paiting with an electric air brush (wagner power painter, baby).

infact, hardly anyone was playing OP until the patch - and most of those are sfc2 folk moving to op (belately) because of a few fixes which were needed. dont confuse the facts.

thanks.

FireSoul · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:13:04 pm »

No nanners..
I've noticed SFC3 players coming to play SFC:OP.. for their first time.

Corbomite · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:21:28 pm »

Nice to know the universe according to Nanner is still going strong. I have never seen or heard anyone playing SFC2 and not SFC3 say it was just because of the rules set. There are many playing both that acknowledge that they are just different games. Many, like me, just don't find SFC3 intriguing, regardless of rules set. I'm sure there are players that just like the SFB type rules more, but to say that "many of the people playing sfc: 2 or op are sfb fans who do not like or refuse to play sfc3 because it does not adhear to the sfb rule set" is misleading and an obfuscation of the entire truth. Oh and I don't recall being wrong the first time.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:56:32 pm »

let me put it this way - and i think its best left at this for everyone's sake. you have a strong belief about things and i have a strong belief about things.

i base my beliefs on what i see and hear as im sure you do. the only way to prove either case is a sampling. take a sampling of the op/eaw players and im pretty sure what i am saying pans out - as that is the vast majority of what is left. sample sfc3 players and im sure you will find what im saying true as well..

that said, i would challenge you to take sfc2 or op and put it through the same political garbage sfc3 has went through and see how many people would be playing it at the same point - with no official patch and no demo (lets see here - that takes away plasma D and a few other toys immediately).. i think sfc3 has weathered the storm rather well to this point and thank goodness for the desire of people like pelican and korah. what it needs is fairness - but it will never get that. not with activision, and certainly not with some of the individuals around here.

the only equalizer i hope is that taldren shows its usual customer support and releases some sort of another beta patch that takes care of issues.

btw, at 2 am, last time i was on sfc3 playing TNZ - there were about 100 folk on the d3 patched.. i dont know the population of patched servers.. and most of those people are playing tnz and dw.. i think that says somthing 2 ways.. 1) the game is a lot stronger and more people like it than what you think or want to believe.. 2) the game needs a patch and a few updates - which i wish taldren were able to do (and needs to do).

look, i support the op patching process - it needed it badly and i hope they fix the ctds. the least you could do is support an sfc3 patch and that process.

thanks.

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Topic: Dear Taldren (Read 13180 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

pimo1

vsfedwards

NannerSlug

FireSoul

vsfedwards

NannerSlug

vsfedwards

Rod O'neal

wilfbrim

TheSatyr

FireSoul

pimo1

AdmiralFrey_XC

pimo1

NannerSlug

Corbomite

NannerSlug

FireSoul

Corbomite

NannerSlug

Topic: Dear Taldren (Read 13180 times)