Topic: Concerning FASA specs for use in SFC (Read 2713 times)

Rogue · « **on:** July 22, 2003, 11:18:23 am »

I need some advice here. We have all of these really sweet FASA models that have been around for ages. My question is how to spec them for use in SFC. We have the game engine, the models and Shipedit to make this all pretty easy. Many of the designs are crying out to be included. But how to make them fit in a SFC universe?

About the best I've come up with is to copy the specifications for an existing ship and import it under another name. Take that and alter the specs to make something unique out of it. Rearrange the warps, shield geometry and weapons set and I've got a ship that fits in and the BPV is about right. What I want to avoid is cluttering the library with redundent designs that don't really work. What is it that some of you do? Are FASA vessels mostly photon torp boats? I never played the game and don't know the mechanics of FASA. I'm just looking for some ideas as to how to make FASA work for SFC and keep the specs in scale with SFC rules.

Now wouldn't it be something if we could make this work? I'm thinking of Firesoul's expanded spec file. If FASA can be standardized perhaps someone will set up a host universe. I think it would be fun. Shoot, I would probably feel inspired to cough up the money for a high speed connection to play it.

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2003, 11:35:01 am »

IMHO, Atrahasis did a great job with FASA specs for some ships I asked him to do, D-10B, Chandley, etc. I suspect that his mod will have what us FASA Trek fans have been looking for and maybe if we petition him and we're lucky, he'll even throw some of the Klingon Academy ships that very few people seem to be willing to work with...

Qapla!

KF

DeepThought · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:57:37 am »

I've put a lot of thought into making SFC more FASA-ish, and I've encountered some roadblocks. Chief among them are weapons-- FASA's rules are based on entirely different types (and much less varied types) of weapons. No drones, no fusion, hellbore, PPD, etc. Disruptors work much like Phasers, etc.

Also, an annoying difference-- what FASA called a frigate, SFC would call a light cruiser.

I agree, Atra came up with a good extrapolation of what FASA Feds would be like in SFC2. I've been heavily modifying the game for over a year now, blowing out the old shiplists completely and starting over with design scemes from scratch. For example, what I would call a F-CH-MK1, a TMP Constiution-- I use designations I can understand, none of this + or R crap

BPV: 194
Crew: 49
Marines: 16
Shield 1: 22
Shield 2 & 6: 22
Shield 3 & 5: 22
Shield 4: 22
Total Shields: 132

Movement Cost: 1.2
Turn Mode: D
Total Warp Power: 40
Impulse Power: 5
Aux Power: 5
Total Engine Power: 45
Battery: 12

Transporters: 6
Tractors: 4
Mech Tractors:
Shuttles: 6
Fighters:

4x Photon
14x Phaser 1
2x Phaser 3

This works pretty well when compared to my version of a K'Tinga D7. At first you're going to read these stats and scream "It's pure cheese!".. but it's actually pretty in balance with the Connie above. Note I used distruptors as the main beam weapons, as oppose to the omnipresent SFB phaser. The extra aux power is needed to give it the speed and punch a Klingon ship-of-the-line should deliver, again, when compared against the Fed above. The Ph3 are needed to give it SOME teeth while those disruptors are re-charging-- no way, as far as I've seen, to modify the recharge rate on weapons.

BPV: 222
Crew: 53
Marines: 24
Shield 1: 21
Shield 2 & 6: 19
Shield 3 & 5: 19
Shield 4: 17
Total Shields: 114

Movement Cost: .67
Turn Mode: C
Total Warp Power: 40
Impulse Power: 8
Aux Power: 18
Total Engine Power: 48
Battery: 10

Transporters: 6
Tractors: 4
Mech Tractors:
Shuttles: 4
Fighters:

6x Disruptor 2
6x Disruptor 4
3x Photon
6x Phaser 3

My ships don't follow FASA stats to the letter-- the two systems just aren't 100 % interchangable. But I've had a lot of fun modifying EAW and I plan to go the distance and completely change it for my own use. Maybe I can re-live some of those old FASA adventures I use to gamemaster in my *sniff* long lost youth.

Deeothought.

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2003, 05:53:16 am »

Quote:

Also, an annoying difference-- what FASA called a frigate, SFC would call a light cruiser.

My ships don't follow FASA stats to the letter-- the two systems just aren't 100 % interchangable. But I've had a lot of fun modifying EAW and I plan to go the distance and completely change it for my own use. Maybe I can re-live some of those old FASA adventures I use to gamemaster in my *sniff* long lost youth.

Deeothought.

Actually, I strongly belive that the Chandley Class should be a HEAVY CRUISER as it is better armed than a Connie and has a significant Marine compliment aboard. The Northampton I use as a CL.

BTW: I have seen 1 SFB site where the FASA ships are referred to as 1st Gen X ships....

Qapla!

KF

Atrahasis · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2003, 05:56:31 am »

In my opinion, one would have to feel free to not stick to the weapons descriptions given in the FASA specs because FASA ships have weak and few weapons (when compared with the actual stats or even SFB stats). The main things to fidget with would be engine power, marines, hull points, movement ratio, and shields. I keep one rule when doing this: always have a cornerstone on which you can base relative stats from. Like picking one of the Connie-classes as your cornerstone, because once you make up stats for that you can extrapolate all the stats you need for all the other FASA ships based on relative numbers. You need a consistent methodology when doing something like this, and this way is about as good as I can figure.

Alakbar · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:49:00 pm »

Actually you really cant interchange SFB and the FASA Star Trek Combat Simulator specs because the systems are way
out of reach of one another. I'll give boatloads of examples because I used to build ships in the FASA board version
and I never really played SFB until I got the EAW game.

Anyways FASA only deals with two warp drives and an impulse engine in the total power of a ship. There is no aux or
battery power tracked here. The drives only deal with a power/move ratio, no turn class is used so a battleship that
has say a 12:1 move ratio can basicly out turn a frigate.

Shields are the same way, power ratio's. The Feds have a 1:4 power ratio so for every one point of power put into
shielding, you get 4 shield points to allocate up to what the shield generator could handle. There is no shield
overcharging.

ECM and ECCM doesnt exist in FASA.

The only internals are the weapons, hull and engines that can be damaged. (We had a running house rule of once the
particular engine reached 0, it was blown off the hull).

Tractor beams, never used in combat as how they are used in SFB. When I was building ships I was just throwing in
tractor beam systems to make up for the mass of the ship (yea 6 sounds good for a battleship).

Transporter Bombs/Mines... never used. It was a splendor to see them used here in SFB! W00t!

Troops also were never used, there was no game system designed for hit and run or captures. Kinda makes the
transporter/troops listing in the FASA books useless... yup even the Chandly, because it was designed as a troop
transport. It only really worked in RPG sessions because having a Chandly in orbit ment one thing, planetary assaults.

Weapons! This is hard because they dont use capacitors here for phasers. Its just straight tapped power from the
engines. Also you'll see listings like the federation FH-1's to the more powerful FH-11's. All they did was create these
weapons with different ranges and power settings. You can break down all the weapons for the Klingons and Romulans into
groups so basicly in FASA, the FH-1's to FH-4's are equivelant to SFB's Phaser 1's. Break them down further all the way
to phaser 3's as phaser 4's are ment for starbases and planets.

Plasma, same thing... RPL-1's being the same as Type F's and RPL 6's being the dreaded Type R (oooOOoo I love them).

Fighters/Shuttles/ScatterPacks/Drones/Missiles/AMD's/Pseudo Plasma/Wild Weasels and suicide shuttles are also non
existant in the FASA game.

Also its true that the nomenclature of FASA and SFB is different (and wrong in FASA I gota add) that a destroyer is
weaker than a frigate.

Anyways this is just some info that people may want to have on those books they have from FASA if they are concidering
doing a mod so there it is

NannerSlug · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:31:47 pm »

has anyone thought of taking time to invest in a fasa mod? just an idea.. yeah, it might be off in some ways, but its an idea to toy with.

TOCXOBearslayer · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2003, 12:32:48 am »

Nanner,

I downloaded some one's FASA shiplist chart (not an actual shiplist, but an excel file with the stats listed) and I don't care for it at all..... the word 'cheese' comes to mind....

Over powered in my opinion.

A few other comments as it pertains to other things posted here...

Here are the FASA ships plus some extra 'fan' based ones.... FASA

As for weapons, I always considered the FH-11 to be the equivilant of the Ph1 in SFB. And based all calculations off of that...

For turn class, I would consider the power to movement ratio (with Klingons getting one class bonus). Also, I would go with a 4:1 ratio as a Movement Cost of 1 in SFC/SFB.

Since the Constitution class is nearly the same in both SFB & FASA, I used that as the basic starting point.

Here are my only 2 conversions to date:

USS Chandley (MkII)

Designation: F-CCG+
BPV: 200(?)
Crew: 40
Marines: 40 (max 60) based off 250 Marine FASA compliment divided by 6 man teams
Shield 1: 30
Shield 2 & 6: 24
Shield 3 & 5: 24
Shield 4: 24
Total Shields: 150

Movement Cost: 1
Turn Mode: D
Total Warp Power: 30
Impulse Power: 4
Aux Power: 4
Total Engine Power: 34
Battery: 4

Transporters: 20 (this is seriously reduced of it. Actual math comes to 74 transporters. This is based on the 6 man Marine team)
Tractors: 2
Mech Tractors: 0
Shuttles: 12
Fighter: 0

4x Photon
8x Phaser 1

USS Andor

Designation: F-CLT
BPV: 140 (?)
Crew: 35
Marines: 8 (max 16)
Shield 1: 24
Shield 2 & 6: 24
Shield 3 & 5: 24
Shield 4: 24
Total Shields: 144

Movement Cost: 0.67
Turn Mode: C
Total Warp Power: 24
Impulse Power: 4
Aux Power: 4
Total Engine Power: 28
Battery: 4

Transporters: 6
Tractors: 2
Mech Tractors: 0
Shuttles: 6
Fighter: 0

8x Photon
2x Phaser 3

As you can see, they could both be power houses, but they both are terrible at drone/fighter defense.

The Chandley could capture most SFB/SFC DN's very quickly (assuming normal AI loadout) and would devestate a convoy in minutes.

The Andor can tear up CA's and BC's with its photons. Just a matter of being able to CHARGE them.

Anyways, feel free to comment on them...

Dizzy · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2003, 12:42:36 am »

Andor was supposed to have a few more phasers...

NannerSlug · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2003, 12:57:27 am »

that doesnt mean it shouldnt be tried.. cheese is relative to what your facing.

Reverend · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2003, 01:14:03 am »

Yes, why hasn't anyone made a totally FASA mod? Oh wait- there are already three of them... SFC1..SFC2....SFC2:OP. At least SFC3 deviated a little.... it too was just a big tease- it still is like a big demo to me. Actrivision is cold, and Taldren got caught up I guess.

TOCXOBearslayer · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2003, 04:11:10 pm »

Does anyone thing that the ships I posted are OTT in relations to their FASA counterparts? Or do they seem reasonable?

If so, I will go ahead and start a FASA shiplist for EaW/OP using the ratios I posted about.

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2003, 04:38:37 pm »

Bearslayer I will have to give this a try.

I'd also like to see some Klingon Academy ships thrown in the mix (not the STOCK ones we already have, LOL)

Qapla!

KF

Rogue · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2003, 05:35:31 pm »

Thanks for the insights and opinions.

I really like what Bearslayer had to say and I have to think he has a an excellent idea about the Constitution being a reference point. There are a certain number of things that we have as an asset to accomplish something excellent. We have the game engine. We have a huge library of well crafted models. For the most part we have the specifications to define them. BTW, this is why I think FireSouls efforts for OP+ refit is so good. If we could get the approximate specifications for the FASA ship library we would have can have an extra measure of fun. As I never played FASA I have no valid opinion to offer on the subject. But I bet we have people here that come up with a reasonable approximation.

The way I think it ought to be is something like this...

Take SFC Orion Pirates. Go with Firesoul's OP+ refit shiplist. Subtract the majority, if not all, the scouts and commando ships. (they really don't have the funtionality in SFC as they did in SFB) And integrate the Library of FASA models and specs because so many are so fun to look at. Wouldn't it be all the better if they were as fun to play? So many modelers put out a lot of effort to make so many of the FASA ships that it seems a shame that they don'y have a real place in the SFC universe. Personaly I think the idea of the Andor torpedo cruiser to be interesting.

I'm keeping an eye on this one and look forward to what you all have to say and might come up with. I thought I was going to be gone for a few days but found out it wasn't necessary. That and I promised to find an answer for another member so that's my project for the weekend. Gotta make good on that one if I can.

sandman69247 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2003, 07:52:26 pm »

As soon as I finish the D-2 I'm working on, I'm going to give the K-27 a try...that and see about getting the Remora completed, at least until atheorhaven or, if he comes back, Pataflafla can do the textures properly. Pata pretty much had the saucer finished, along with the nacelle...just the rest of the hull needs to be done. One major bonus is I start vacation on sunday, so I'l have alot of time for this stuff.

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #18 on:** July 24, 2003, 07:58:07 pm »

Here's what I like about SFC:

I like that a ST: New Worlds Melak Class Warbird can lead a squadron of FASA White-Winds into battle against a SFB-style TMP Andromedan Imposer 'cruiser' or a fan-based Federation Churchill Class could be in big trouble against a Klingon Academy Tholian Sapphire DN or that a pair of FASA D-10 Riskadh's led by a Klingon Academy Suvwl' Qeh could attack a convoy of Lotus Flower freighters and their Ships- of -The-Starfleet Akula Perimeter Action ship escorts....

Variety, I love it. IDIC; Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations!

IMHO SFC/SFB is most likely better able to absorb FASA Trek material and incorporate it than the reverse. The FASA ship designers probably weren't SFB players and were trying to be faithful to the early Trek movies. I bet today if those same ships were made they would be armed better to defend against missile attacks. There is no reason why FASA Trek settings like the 'Triangle' or the 'Outback' or even some of the FASA Trek history couldn't fit into the SFB universe (assuming one ignores all FASA TNG material). The same could be said for the ships/background material for Klingon Academy or any other Trek game set in TMP or even TOS eras. Overall, I'm not too picky over ship stats as long as they are consistent. Every single Trek game I have ever played has SOMETHING not quite right about it, LOL.

KF

TOCXOBearslayer · « **Reply #19 on:** July 24, 2003, 09:50:28 pm »

I am going to go ahead and start a list... based in OP.

Will start with the Feds, move on to the Klingons, Roms, and Gorn last.

I will post updates from time to time to get opinions, suggestions, and other comments.

BTW, don't expect any drones.... but T-Bombs and SS will abound.

TOCXOBearslayer · « **Reply #21 on:** July 28, 2003, 12:32:27 pm »

Ah... so this is where you got that config from....

Ok... someone did a port to SFB... Not quite correct IMO, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

Just not as true to the FASA model as I was... even though I am still trying to figure out how to get the fighter mini-photons to work on a normal ship..... That would make the Andor more true to standards.

News:

Topic: Concerning FASA specs for use in SFC (Read 2713 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Rogue

Klingon Fanatic

DeepThought

Klingon Fanatic

Atrahasis

Atrahasis

Alakbar

NannerSlug

TOCXOBearslayer

DeepThought

Dizzy

NannerSlug

Reverend

TOCXOBearslayer

Klingon Fanatic

TOCXOBearslayer

Rogue

sandman69247

Klingon Fanatic

TOCXOBearslayer

Dizzy

TOCXOBearslayer

Topic: Concerning FASA specs for use in SFC (Read 2713 times)