Topic: Can we have the complete flatfile structure for OP 2.5.4.10? (Read 4140 times)

Bonk · « **on:** July 19, 2003, 10:52:23 am »

Pleeeaaasssee! Pretty please with sugar on top! Can we, can we? Huh? Huh?

It would mean an awful lot to us and would save us many many hours (and eye appointments).

Bonk · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2003, 08:55:52 am »

Bump

Bonk · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2003, 01:16:09 pm »

I just discovered that the OP API R2.1 has some code relating to the database under
OP API - R2.1\Scripts\shared\Source\Taldren\Common\Database and
OP API - R2.1\Scripts\shared\Source\Taldren\Common\DataStore.

The problem is, I do not have VC++ 6, so I cannot really make use of this,
but there are some clues to the db structure there. It also tells me that the flatfile
is Taldren's. (I think)

I'm wondering if my request is being ignored because we already have this information somewhere?

Can someone with VC++ tell me if we can use this to extract the complete structure of the flatfile or
is it just an interface to certain portions of the db accessible by scripts (likely the case)?

Technically the license does not allow us to reverse engineer the db anyway, as I read it.

Quote:

General Product License. This copy of Star Trek Starfleet Command(R) :Orion Pirates(TM) (the "Software") is intended solely for your personal non-commercial home entertainment use. You may not decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Software, except as permitted by law.

So to protect ouselves legally, it would be best if Taldren willingly gave us the flatfile structure, otherwise they could sue us if they don't like the results of user efforts to decode the database.

Or have I misread that? Are we allowed to reverse engineer the SFCOP flatfile db?

Couldn't Taldren just give us the info?

Is it the case that the structure information is in the game code only and cannot be released?
Is it a case of - It works, but we're not sure how?
What's the deal?

Needless to say, I want to avoid reverse engineering the database structure, and simply wish to politely ask Taldren if they can give it to us, or at least an explanation of why they cannot. If they cannot, permission to reverse-engineer the db would be nice.

Again... Please?

Bonk · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2003, 04:25:50 pm »

Hmmm, two posts by Taldren while this thread is near the top... definitely being ignored.
I shall contemplate what to do about that...

Cleaven · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2003, 05:11:28 pm »

It is probably not wise to expect an answer over the weekend. Especially if the powers that be will probably need a meeting of some sort to discuss/approve it. I would imagine that you could have to wait five working days for a final response, and that's if the required people are all in town.

Bonk · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2003, 06:04:32 pm »

A simple "we'll look into it" would suffice...

FireSoul · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2003, 06:16:09 pm »

I'm a linux system administrator..
.. today, when someone asked me "do you know something about devfs?", I immediately answered:
"No, I don't know anything about devfs or devusbfs on Sundays." (which I'm sure made stany smile.)

.. I imagine it's the same everywhere.

-- Luc

Toasty0 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2003, 06:37:31 pm »

I just took a quick look with VC++.Net (MFSP $109 U.S. for the standard edition) and at the risk of once again embrassingly revealing my ignorance of programming and C++/DB specificly it looks like the DB is proprietary. As such it is considered source code and Taldren has made it clear that *will not* be released. (Please read the following thread Petition for the realese of the SFC source code )

<sardonic voice>

Of course this is the point where Erik, Sean, or David post saying that they'll release the DB code.

</sardonic voice>

Best,
Jerry

Bonk · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2003, 07:07:50 pm »

Post deleted...

Edit: Toasty, I misunderstood your post - I'm getting too touchy about this - I apologise profusely for jumping on you like that. I better stay away for a bit, my emotions are clouding my reading comprehension.

Note that the API will only work with VC++ 6. The API source I pointed you to does not represent the db itself. That source does have this message in it: "This document contains CONFIDENTIAL, PROPRIETARY, TRADE SECRET information belonging to Taldren, Inc." But I understood that only to mean the code in those files. The flatfile database is a binary file on disk generated by the compiled code of the serverplatform - something else entirely.

Toasty0 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2003, 07:49:27 pm »

OK, I've cooled off. Contents of flamage doused and swept away.

Best,
Jerry

Bonk · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2003, 08:09:22 am »

Please see my retraction above (moments after I posted).

David Ferrell · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2003, 01:54:21 pm »

I had a chat with Ken and there is no map of the structure
available at all.

Ken suggested, if you are not already, that you join the Server
admin list and talk with the people that are already doing this
for EAW.

Thanks,

Dave

Bonk · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2003, 03:57:43 pm »

Thanks for taking the time to look into it. It is much appreciated.
Thanks also for suggesting the admin group - I had forgotten it is a good resource.
Co-operation is what has broken the most ground on this in the
past, and that is certainly what it will take to figure out the remainder.

Bonk · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2003, 09:31:07 am »

I concur, that is very interesting. Maybe we can be a help to Taldren by figuring it out.

The overall structure of the db is relatively obvious, but it is a few small items that have stumped us. Things like how the political tension matrix is encoded (not it's location) and how does it point to the corresponding text strings for alliances, or the two as yet unidentified ship systems in the damage "blob', or the two unidentified numbers in the "shipcachevector", the order items are stored in the ship stores and how they are represented... This information is critical to the function of the game and would certainly help future campaign customizations.

If we had that information a ship editor and other goodies could easily be produced. As it stands now we cannot add a ship to the database because we do not know how to completely transcribe the info from the shiplist into the damage and stores area of a ship record in the flatfile. Additionally, the "shipcachevector" of the character records must be understood before we can actually edit a players ships.

Production of a db cleaner shouldn't be too hard as it stands, one simply needs to remove all AI's not created on initial startup, all ships belonging to them and then modify the object count. The EAW db parser source could be used as a starting point for this. (let me know if anyone wants a copy)

The other information will have to be obtained through trial and error on a running D2 server dedicated to finding this info. I have been working on this for the last year, I have made some progress with some help, but key information is still missing. I'll try and put some more time in on it this year and maybe fill in the missing pieces.

Bonk · « **Reply #16 on:** July 19, 2003, 10:52:23 am »

Pleeeaaasssee! Pretty please with sugar on top! Can we, can we? Huh? Huh?

It would mean an awful lot to us and would save us many many hours (and eye appointments).

Bonk · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2003, 08:55:52 am »

Bump

Bonk · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2003, 04:25:50 pm »

Hmmm, two posts by Taldren while this thread is near the top... definitely being ignored.
I shall contemplate what to do about that...

News:

Topic: Can we have the complete flatfile structure for OP 2.5.4.10? (Read 4140 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

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David Ferrell

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Toasty0

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Topic: Can we have the complete flatfile structure for OP 2.5.4.10? (Read 4140 times)