Topic: Something I noticed about "First Contact"......... (Read 5614 times)

DestinyCalling · « **on:** July 17, 2003, 04:09:12 pm »

First of, I shall start with a ship request... After all, this IS the "Starfleet Command Models" forum... So here we go....

I've looked around but I cant seem to find a decent Hi-Res Steamrunner model.... As a rule, i dont like TNG designs much but the Akira Class and in particular the Steamrunner clas DO stand out.....

Any suggestions.....?

And now to what I noticed. I was sat watching the Sector 001 battle doing a bit of ship watching... You know how it is.....

Defiant (looks small there, bit of a scale problem I think), Akiras (plenty of them), Steamrunners(like those), Sabers (loads of those), Oberths times 2, Norways (looks a bit like a steam iron), Sovereign (GO, BIG E, GO), ohh look, 2 MIrandas WITH roll-bar, Nebu.......

Hang on a minute......

OBERTHS.....

Not just one, but at least 2 of 'em..... And no Excelsior Class either....

Now I'm know how it works. Those guys a Paramount design some new ships and want to show them off, but come on!!! Science Vessels!!!!

I can just see it now.....

FLEET ADMIRAL SMITH:
Well, Commodore. We've managed to put together a nice big fleet of never before seen ships. Trouble is, we dont seem to have any big hitters.....

COMMODORE JONES:
How about we recall the "Enterprise", you know she's the most advanced ship we've got. She'll really kick some Borg ass!!!. If you'd rather not have Picard involved, we could recall another half dozen Excelsiors.......

FLEET ADMIRAL SMITH:
NO!!!..... I've got a better idea....... You know those 2 Oberth's we have bringing all the Wolf 359 veterans back from Vulcan?

COMMODORE JONES:
You mean the USS Fodder and the USS Deadmeat...

FLEET ADMIRAL SMITH:
Yeah...... They'll do.......

PERFECT....!!!!!

Just an observation, thats all.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 17, 2003, 04:18:07 pm »

lol lol lol

adam out

manitoba · « **Reply #2 on:** July 17, 2003, 04:32:37 pm »

i have just one thing to say.

ROTFLMAOH

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2003, 05:08:38 pm »

LOL @ USS Deadmeat

Smiley · « **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2003, 07:27:31 pm »

I have this one by P81:

Find me on ICQ to get it

Anthony_Scott · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2003, 12:29:33 pm »

hehehehehe Now that was funny....kinda like sending some schoolchildren with water guns.....Or maybe the Oberths were unlucky enough to be caught in Earth parking orbit when the battle group arrived...something like "You want us to do WHAT??????"

ROFLLMAO

BTW where can i get a Yeager anyway? I always did like that ship for some reason.

Atrahasis · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2003, 12:52:39 pm »

Actually, why not Oberths? The Borg don't shoot at anything they percieve as a non-threat, so ironically the Oberths have a better chnce of surviving if they can keep from getting noticed.

Smiley · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2003, 03:07:46 pm »

yeah they might survive, but if they don't pose a threat to the cube, then there's no point in them being there (from an offensive point of view)

manitoba · « **Reply #8 on:** July 18, 2003, 03:25:55 pm »

the federation was never really on an offensive with the cubes. usually the were trying to be defensive from being attacked by them. i dont really remember that many shows that had the federation going after a cubes. so i think therefore every battle with a cube was really a defensive action rather than offensive one

Smiley · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2003, 03:30:46 pm »

Perhaps I didn't word that very well, what I meant was that if the cube didn't perceive them as a threat then they obviously couldn't do much damage to it, and Starfleet had to do damage to it to either make it retreat (yeah like the Borg would do that), disable it, or as a last resort - destroy it. Remember it wanted to assimilate Earth so they would do anything to stop it.

So by offensive, I meant doing damage to it, not as an offensive operation.

manitoba · « **Reply #10 on:** July 18, 2003, 03:40:08 pm »

i see now. lmao

Azel · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2003, 03:45:48 pm »

I Have always felt that Oberths in TNG were used as tesbeds for ne technology rather than just research and survey missions.
I mean come on the Pegasus had a damned Phase-Cloak...
So it would stand to reason that the Oberths may have had the prototype technology that was installed
on the later starships of Steamrunner, Saber, and Norway Classes...
They may have also acted as ECM Ships similar to the way that our military uses ECM as a cloaking and disruptive interference.
Similar to the job of a Prowler on an Aircraftcarrier

Smiley · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2003, 04:45:17 pm »

Then the Borg would know that and thus perceive them as a threat (because they've assimilated people who know this, no doubt) hehe

DestinyCalling · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2003, 05:57:16 pm »

More Observations......

First off though, it's nice to see some reactions.... well done...

BTW USS Target renamed as USS Fodder.... (works better that way)

Interesting idea about flying Oberths into battle as ECM boats... It does put that large sensor pod to good use. But you know what's kinda odd...

No Excelsiors....
No Galaxys....
No Ambassadors....

You know what I think.... The minute they paint the word "Enterprise" on a ships hull, it spells instant doom for the Class. Think about it, how many other Connie refits have we ACTUALLY seen...... NONE, that's right NONE....

I can just see it now......

FLEET ADMIRAL SMITH:
Well, we need some new ships. Care to help us out with this.....

ENGINEER/"SALESMAN" GIL:
Oh certainlly, these new Connies/Ambassadors/Excelsior B-variant/Galaxys are great, they really add some depth to your fleet, and they can sure kick some butt..... One thing I should mention though... Try not to call any of them "Enterprise" or you'll not get anymore....

FLEET ADMIRAL SMITH:
What was that!!!

ENGINEER/"SALESMAN" GIL:
(to one side)
Shut up Gil!!, just close the deal.... They'll go for it, stop talking

FLEET ADMIRAL SMITH:
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding there. What was it you said...

ENGINEER/"SALESMAN" GIL:
Nothing!!! So, how many can I put you down for... 12.... 24.... Remember "Good Ole Gil"!!!!!

Followed by nervous grin on Gil's face......

That was really a Simpsons reference but I'm sure thats how it went.......

What do you reckon????

Smiley · « **Reply #14 on:** July 18, 2003, 06:29:43 pm »

lol, I wish someone would explain to me how certain shipyards "win" contracts to build vessels for Starfleet and other UFP organisations...has anyone here read the renegade fan fiction? It's pretty good and there's some funny similarities between the Simpons analogy there and how the characters in the fanfic obtained their new ship, hehe, well I thought it was good *goes back to his allocated corner*

sandman69247 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 18, 2003, 07:08:15 pm »

I think an appropriate name would be: USS HOLY SHIITE; ROFLMAO!!

Seriously though, it's easily explained in that they called all ships with even light armament back to sector 001 to help defend Earth. As not all ships could arrive in time, those that could were there. The Oberths were probly just leaving on missions or returning from them. And when the Big "E" arrived, it was after listening to hours of fellow ships being obliterated on the way there. Of course the easiest explanation is that the film crew just used whatever was at hand to make a large battle.

DestinyCalling · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2003, 07:38:46 pm »

Get this though..... Just how stupid am I......

I've watched Trek for many a year, I like to think I'm pretty aux fait with various designs and what not.....

And I go and quote Yeagers being present at the battle....

YEAGERS....!!!!

Of course, I meant SABERS, and there were LOADS of them...... Though to be honest I dont really like all that many TNG designs, the refit Connie is STILL the greatest. You know I was thinking the other day about how good it would've looked if we ever got to see 1701-D rendezvous with a Connie during TNG and not some run of the mill Excelsior class....

Post has been amended.... And if my grandmother DID have wheels, then she would most definately be a wagon!!!

Smiley · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2003, 07:42:39 pm »

Haha, at least there was a method to your madness, the saber that is always referred so was called the USS Yeager!

And what's this about your Grandmother????

WickedZombie45 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2003, 09:18:55 pm »

Just to throw another wrench into this discussion, I read from a reputable source recently that the FX guys (who are always keen on slipping hidden "easter eggs" in at every chance) dropped a pair of Millennium Falcon models into the space battle. I've yet to see any proof of it and they're most likely quick blurs for obvious reasons, but it is an interesting thought. If you think a few Oberths are cannon fodder, try a couple of lightly armed freighters.

starforce2 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 18, 2003, 09:59:23 pm »

Smiley, is that the sfc3 streamrunner frrom the knox kitbash site? If it is, I'm defenetly going to have that...

Parislord · « **Reply #20 on:** July 18, 2003, 11:09:08 pm »

I've always thought that that big canoe on the Oberth was probably a modular thing like the AWAC type wedge assembly on the Nebulae, perhaps they were reconfigured with weapons at the local starbase before being flung intot he battle, or maybe with enhance EW gear for fleet EW support.

If you watch FC closely, you'll notice, btw, that an inordinately high number of Steamrunners get wacked in that battle, compared to other models...

manitoba · « **Reply #21 on:** July 19, 2003, 03:43:51 pm »

i've heard things like that too. about those eggs also

Atrahasis · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2003, 08:53:16 am »

One thing I've never understood about the Oberth is this: according to internal Okudagrams of it we've seen on the show, it has actual rooms in that lower hull. If that's the case, how do you get people in there? Beam them from the saucer? I think there should be some sort of interconnecting pylon that has a turbolift, it would greatly expand the usable space of the ship if it has to carry around that pod anyways.

3dot14 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2003, 10:48:43 am »

Re: the Oberths

Well I take you don't believe in Scout Sensor and ECM lending?

Oh wait... this is TNG... Never mind.

Rogue · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2003, 11:23:22 am »

Ya, that lower hull doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense. But it sure looks pretty. I think if they ever develop working technology like they have in Star Trek, the ships will look nothing like they do in the show. There are a lot of ships that have large areas that would be enclosed instead of being open. Mostly cylinders, spheres and boxes. What's the point of building a large vacuous area when a little extra hull structure would enclose it and add to structural integrity?

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #25 on:** July 20, 2003, 02:55:44 pm »

Well the ships in Star Trek are made to look nice, not to be practical. I think they do a fantastic job of it myself. I can overlook the impractical nature of a lot of the designs since they look cool, and they are fantasy after all. I personally think that any space ship large enough to not be capable of landing on a planet would not be aerodynamic at all. Something like the Babylon5 ships, with a large mass that spins around a central axis mass, so the crew can get a feeling of gravity for certain occasions like showers, machine shops, medical bays and other stuff that would be better off with gravity. They wouldn't be nice to look at though. Not nearly as nice as those sweet curves of the Oberth.

DestinyCalling · « **Reply #26 on:** July 20, 2003, 06:04:32 pm »

All these are good points... BUT....

When you have a load of Excelsiors and Ambassadors, even Galaxys, they DO make a better option to send up against a Borg cube..... How far is the Typhon sector from earth anyway.....

A point I was trying to put across was that the minute you name a ship "Enterprise" it immediately consigns the rest of the class to the scrapheap, and yet really old designs seem to hang around for ever.... I mean what would you prefer to have around in a fight.... Connies or Mirandas, Ambassadors or Excelsiors... etc, etc....

I think it all comes down to the fact that Paramount wont make the assumption that it's audience has a brain....

ILM EFFECTS GUY BOB:
Ok, we've got all these really cool ship models that we can use in this big battle we've got planned against the Borg/Dominion/Generic rampaging Alien Race.... Shall we use the Enterprise "A" model? Regarded by Mike Okuda as one of the finest starship miniatures EVER created....

PARAMOUNT EXEC BROWN:
Nah, just you go and kitbash something like I said.... And dont talk back!!!! What do you know about Star Trek anyway?

ILM EFFECTS GUY BOB:
Plenty actually... I just dont see why we...........

PARAMOUNT EXEC BROWN:
(Interrupts)
Here take this ERTL Voyager top bit thingy and glue it on to half of this jet fighter.... but do it back to front... that way, they'll never know
(Holds bent little finger up to mouth in some form of crap Dr Evil impression...... Throws Voyager primary hull and F-14 kit across table)

ILM EFFECTS GUY BOB:
Ok, ok.....whatever
(mutters)....[censored]!!!

Anyway, Paramount seem to think that if we SEE a Connie on screen then it HAS to be the Enterprise...!! Same goes for the Excelsior "B" variant (Lakota aside)......

Anyway, there you go.....

Anthony_Scott · « **Reply #27 on:** July 21, 2003, 01:01:47 pm »

Quote:

I've always thought that that big canoe on the Oberth was probably a modular thing like the AWAC type wedge assembly on the Nebulae, perhaps they were reconfigured with weapons at the local starbase before being flung intot he battle, or maybe with enhance EW gear for fleet EW support.

If you watch FC closely, you'll notice, btw, that an inordinately high number of Steamrunners get wacked in that battle, compared to other models...

I believe the reason that alot of steamrunner, akira and miranda ships get toasted is that the SFX guys and gals apparently like how the saucer sections look when they go blooie...which is one reason why in Sacrifice of angels so many mirandas got whacked...

but since the miranda is an FCL maybe she should not be in the thick of things but taking pot shots from afar...

just a thought or two...

sandman69247 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 21, 2003, 04:04:02 pm »

'Tis a sad, sad day when people can't tell the difference from ST to SW ships. Really whack 'em out and put a couple of SSD's in a Trek movie...then they'll think they're the same!!!

Atrahasis · « **Reply #30 on:** July 21, 2003, 07:01:54 pm »

Sorry to go on about the Oberth design, but recently I had the idea that there might be some sort of turbolift shaft that extends from the main hull and into that little pod whenever you need it. Naturally it would be retracted when the ship is cruising along.

DestinyCalling · « **Reply #33 on:** July 22, 2003, 04:58:06 pm »

As an Englishman (that's in Europe guys..... where the history comes from), I have no idea when it comes to American cars. As far as I know, the roads are so big that a steering wheel is generally listed as an "option".....

Just kidding, dont start flaming me ok???

Actually, now that I think, the majority of TNG starships seem to follow the same train of though.... Big, Fat, Bouncy with a less than perfect reliabilty.......

Its a pity there aren't any "Euro" starships...... Small, Chic, Stylish, Economic and if it's German, then it'll not break down.....

DestinyCalling · « **Reply #37 on:** July 22, 2003, 05:57:34 pm »

LMAO
Now, dont get me wrong here... The US has produced some stunning cars... From the Auburns and Dusenbergs pre-war, right up to today with your Vipers and the "soon to be released and it's about time too" Ford GT... (IMHO, the GT40 is one of the greatest of all sportscars)... It's just that there's no class or finesse...

The awesome engineering of a Porsche or a Mercedes Benz..... The stunning performance of a Ferrari or a Lamborghini..... The attention to detail of a handful of select independant British Manufacturers... Oh happy days.....

Who will not admit to being totally awe inspired by the McClaren F1 for example.... Big money I'll agree but awesome, just awesome......

I will concede this though...... When it comes to military hardware you beat us hands down.....

Eurofighter is good, probably the best.... But I'll take a Strike Eagle anyday, performance you CAN rely on...

Now THATS an American tradition.....

manitoba · « **Reply #38 on:** July 22, 2003, 06:02:42 pm »

yeap but thats also probably another factor for building starships time and cost.

Reverend · « **Reply #39 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:52:28 am »

gee, Smiley, my head is starting to hurt with all the lumps you and DestinyCalling keep giving me:(...lol

Stormbringer · « **Reply #40 on:** June 06, 2004, 01:50:26 pm »

dammit! Now I've got to watch that movie again. Thanks!

Praxis · « **Reply #42 on:** June 06, 2004, 03:35:22 pm »

You know, the Defiant's scale was actually correct.

I have never seen a Star Trek game that has a Cube scaled correctly.

Cube's are 3 x 3 x 3 kilometers, or 27 CUBIC KILOMETERS! They're GIGANTIC.

The Enterprise-E is 700 meters long. A cube is about 4 times longer, and of course WAY WAY wider and taller.

The Defiant is a puny 100 meters long. The cube is a good 30 times longer, and probably a good 300 times taller.

News:

Topic: Something I noticed about "First Contact"......... (Read 5614 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

DestinyCalling

nx_adam_1701

manitoba

Captain KoraH

Smiley

Anthony_Scott

Atrahasis

Smiley

manitoba

Smiley

manitoba

Azel

Smiley

DestinyCalling

Smiley

sandman69247

DestinyCalling

Smiley

WickedZombie45

starforce2

Parislord

manitoba

Atrahasis

3dot14

Rogue

Captain KoraH

DestinyCalling

Anthony_Scott

Captain KoraH

sandman69247

Atrahasis

Reverend

sandman69247

DestinyCalling

Smiley

manitoba

Smiley

DestinyCalling

manitoba

Reverend

Stormbringer

Wolfsglen

Praxis

111wallace111

Topic: Something I noticed about "First Contact"......... (Read 5614 times)