Topic: If Trek Liscense is Split Up Again, What Happens to SFC Series? (Read 23850 times)

Scipio_66 · « **Reply #120 on:** July 15, 2003, 12:42:05 am »

Quote:

In my opinion, I think the best hope for SFC is for Taldern to forget the Paramount licencing attogether and try to negotiate a deal with ADB. I bet the cost would be considerably cheaper compared to paramonts and it would be based on SFB universe. That way, a SFC:GAW would actually be a reality. And instead of ADB fighting with Taldren all the time about copying their rule system, they should help them out because if they work togetheir, they can benefit each other. Their are some things in SFB that SFC can recreate so their will always be a need for people to by the board game.

ADB already made such a deal with Interplay and Taldren. That was how we got SFC1 and SFC2 and OP. The entity you really need to worry about is Paramount.

The hold-up for electronic SFB had (has) always been Paramount. ADB had always claimed that their contract gave them permission to make computer games built upon SFB, whereas Paramount claimed that it does not. As Steve Cole (the head of ADB) has always said, "If you've got the money to fight Paramount, you go right ahead." (I guess Activision does. At least it seems to think that it does.)

I have little doubt that ADB would agree to another SFB-based computer game with no problems. They still print articles about SFC in their Captain's Log magazine. Getting Paramount not to storm in and torpedo the deal with (expensive) litigation would be the trick.

-S'Cipio

Reverend · « **Reply #121 on:** July 15, 2003, 01:39:21 am »

It is of astronomically astounding levels of surprise and simultaneous dismay that I see all this worry over ANOTHER SFB game.... didn't we just have three in a row? What made people run from SFC3 wasn't because it had less of the SFB shackles- it was because it wasn't a consistent, continuous space universe... just like Earth and Beyond, just like Eve Genesis, and the other fully interactive space sims that tragically outsell the SFC series. SFB never sold.

If any mythology deserved such a universe, it would be Star Trek. There was simply not enough put into the game. It is a flop. You all got your SFB games, why can't you be happy with that? If you want Eras at War, then mod it- many of our finer modders/moddellers have done so for you already; stop praying for more Nitpicking of the Nth Degree. Let the rest of us have our online consistent universe we have been seeking... that which would feel like you are flying a massive starship thorugh a gargantuan galaxy; not where you feel like you're moving a damned bitmapped pwter model on a online board (bored) game.
If one were to make another Star Trek game, it would need to be of drastic differences than is previously granted. Yes, the SFC(3)-style of combat is pretty much flawless. Easy to learn, hard to master. THIS will draw consumers, not another re-hash of another game.
This is not a flame, I personally like many of you- just plea for consideration- such a change/addition wouldn't lose any of the elements we all enjoy... I just would like to see a little more "playable realism". I have a ship- give me an ocean on which to sail.

Reverend · « **Reply #123 on:** July 15, 2003, 01:59:20 am »

Oh, and thank you Rod O'neal. SFB had its day; lets not stretch it into infinity- all things, especially good things, must end. This is progress, my friends. If such a game I (and many, many others) proposed came into being, you'd play it, and I bet you'd have a blast alongside me.

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #124 on:** July 15, 2003, 02:00:32 am »

Reverend, I like you too.

So you want this giant expanse to realistically sail your starship on?

Picard: Data set course for Alpha-yadi-yadi-yada.
Data: Course set. At our current speed we should be there in 3days, 14hrs, 22min.
Picard: Make it so. I'm going to be in my ready room. Inform me if something, anything happens.

Do you really want reality?

FireSoul · « **Reply #125 on:** July 15, 2003, 02:04:12 am »

*sigh* Here we go again.

I bought and play this game (SFC:OP) because it's SFB-based. I did not buy SFC3. I will not buy a Trek game that's not SFB-based unless it is a SPECTACULARLY OVERWHELMINGLY WONDERFUL game.

oh.. and I didn't buy another game since SFC:OP except for an updated version of UO.

-- Luc

PS. Someone once posted to me "who do you think you are, the savior of OP?"
Updated answer: No, but you should see the stuff I'm doing for it.

Reverend · « **Reply #126 on:** July 15, 2003, 02:10:43 am »

It doesn't cost too much to run a company such as that- you and Mike and Jeff make up some more confining rules, then send it off to the presses- $1200. SFB is excellent an excellent tatical game; but it is just too confining to most people; some people like me find it too confining because it had so little to do with the television series; I love the Gorn, nad all other SFB races; but its just too predictable for most people. You treat SFB like Christianity- it won't ruin the world to deviate... I'm not asking for another Dominion Wars, or Bridge Commander. SFB led us to a place, one needds to know what to do once there. I wouldn't knock my own roots, don't get huffy.... why not ask for more? Everyone else gets it.

Reverend · « **Reply #127 on:** July 15, 2003, 02:12:58 am »

Yes, Firesoul, something like what Active X, and I, and Formo, and many others would be just that! I wouldn't sit here and pull everyone's leg about such a conception... c'mon, SFCOP with a fully interactive, continually contiunous space.

Reverend · « **Reply #128 on:** July 15, 2003, 02:17:48 am »

Kid Carrson, you're on the money about the expansions- those would be fun indeed...

NannerSlug · « **Reply #129 on:** July 15, 2003, 03:29:50 am »

just a few points here guys.. keep in mind that we all have our opinions. we do not know how well sfc3 really did. to think that sfc is the sole reason why activision is suing paramount is beyond arrogant. i think someone put the nail on the head with the synergy thing. no movies = no hype = no cash.

everyone can just agree to disagree about rule sets and leave it at that. there are just about as many opinions on this game as there are people. thats life. what we should be looking positively about is that all the games have inspired enough people to enjoy the game and leave it at that.

let me remind some folk of somthing.. what do you think would have happened if during sfc2 there was no demo and the same type of support we have seen with sfc3? hmm.. i think that is a good reason why if anything, there are issues.. but here is another news flash - sfc3 is still going strong game wise.. sure, not as many on gsa.. but there are no leagues.. most of the folk are on d3.. and even without an official patch, that section has been bumping around 100 folk at 2 am in the morning - and thats on modded servers that require 100s of megs of downloads and installs.

my only point is dont sell sfc3 short like some people have.

when its all said and done these are games. lets just leave it at that.

and yes, sfc1, 2, op and sfc3 are all TREK games first and foremost.. the rule sets are tools used to accomplish an objective.. so no, the "core" crowd is not sfb folk - the "core" are trek fans.. that doesnt take away anything from sfc1/2/op - but that rule set/those who like that rule set do not have ownership on the community. it should be big enough for everyone.

Cleaven · « **Reply #130 on:** July 15, 2003, 05:32:27 am »

I'm amazed to see Reverend say " SFB had its day; lets not stretch it into infinity- all things, especially good things, must end."

It's like saying that we've had chess for a thousand years so it's time to get rid of it because it's past it's use-by date. Don't take people for fools when they can recognise that quality and value for money endures. A quality product will go on and on until it is replaced by something better or the market disappears. SFB and F&E are still in publication when almost all other board games published in that era are gone, so the evidence is that the SFB market is still there.

And to go on and say that "SFB never sold." is even more incredulous. As you can easily see, not only did it sell well, but it has sold well for a long, long time. Of course this is not to imply that SFB is as successful as Monopoly, but it is successful.

And none of this detracts from any success of SFC:TNG and it's off-shoots, but I will happily bet that SFB will still be selling after all the current Star Trek games have given up the ghost.

Reverend · « **Reply #131 on:** July 15, 2003, 08:55:03 am »

good points, Cleaven and Nannerslug... most of all, I just don't want ST random getting the raw end of the deal again. If its going to get split up, I just hope whoever gets the heavy side of the rights does something with it for us, instead of it rotting in pieces.

Reverend · « **Reply #133 on:** July 15, 2003, 09:04:40 am »

typo!-
I meant Star Trek fandom... in general...

Reverend · « **Reply #134 on:** July 15, 2003, 09:31:28 am »

My, what a great gnashing of teeth is see. Your capablility to be very exquisite in your point-counter-pointing quote manipulation is to be honored, greatly honored. You have mastered ForumSpeak. If you're intending to make me look like a dummy because my opinion differs from yours, its not going to work. Take it apart to its very molecular coponenets, pour your little heart into, by George; but you takethe point apart. Okay, I was wrong, people do by SFB board games still. Probrobly someone here went and bought one just to make a point. Regardless, if there is another game built, I'll eat my hat if its some moron Star Trek game like all the others, or another rehash of SFB; that should have been patched with OP, which I merrily play to this day. SFC2OP is ANOTHER unfinished product. I so hooped that SFC3 was going to give us best of both worlds. Sure would be nice to have to turn off point defense before skipping across the sector. So... what can you wrench out of this so far? The same thing you are feeling, I'd just bet it is; stop being too proud to admit it, especially someone so gentle as Sethan... I might as well be sitting here saying anything past Luke is blasphemy, and all Baptism is shat (crosses self a few times)... I'd be getting the same response.
Why can't you have the best of both worlds? I don't think its too much to ask. Sethan wrote much material on the Rhiannasu- I wish there was a place where we all log on to, physically meet right in front of Rhiannasu (Romulus- whichever, sorry for the wrong words), and chat through ship channels or duke it out SFC-style, either way. Is that to much to ask for?
That wouldn't be a flavor, it'd be a little of both. Then if we got done talking, we could warp out and go about our business- fight something, scan something, rescue someone, whatever. Doing that, at your own discretion, would be against SFB rules... you'd have to disengage, and fall off the hex map... not to mention a couple of other grumbles. If I made you (bigger) SFB fans mad, I'm sorry, I was just hoping that we could see it as SFB giving us a great backbone, but we needing to take it and run, to build a body from it and expand out; SFB made ships, maybe a ocean could be built around it. Is this any better?

Mr. Hypergol · « **Reply #135 on:** July 15, 2003, 09:52:49 am »

I'm going to cry...........<sniffle>...............WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

All I want is for them to find a way to finish the EAW storyline and add the remaining major races Andros and Tholians.

WWWWAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

Reverand says we need to move on.........the problem is they didn't finish what they started!!!!!

WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

I don't hate SFC3...hell I bought several copies of the damn game!!!!!!

WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

I just want them to finish what they started somehow.....then I'll be out of everyone's hair......

WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

If they would just program WEB.......we'd have Tholians......we've got Brez's models.......

If they would just program the andro displacement, PA panels, and TR beams, the fans could make the models and shiplists!!

WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

Anybody got a hanky...........

It just that they are SOOOOO CLOSE to finishing what they started.........

<sniffle>

Lepton1 · « **Reply #136 on:** July 15, 2003, 11:50:32 am »

It is an interesting perspective to say that we have had 3 SFB-based SFC titles in the past two years. My view is more like we have had .9 or 1.2 depending on how critical one wants to be. Essentially, OP is the fullfilment of the Taldren promise to give us a full product. You could either view it as EAW2.0 or GAW0.8. But to suggest that any of these are really disparate separate titles does not recognize the fact that most of the elements and a good deal of the code is the same. It was just repackaged and sold to us again. It's really just as reprehensible as EA Sports releasing new version of their most popular titles every year or so. Bought it once, buy it again. I have probably spent in total 140 bucks on the SFC series. I think that is enough to assure me a full product of which OP is just that short of being it.

Cpt. Chaos · « **Reply #137 on:** July 15, 2003, 12:54:55 pm »

Well,

Think about how the other software makers do it:

They let you try it for 2 weeks free.

Then they sell you version 2.0 for 50 bucks. If you want to download it you can, or you can have them send you a disc. If you want them to send you printed instructions (as opposed to a printable .pdf), that's another 30 bucks. Over the next year or so, they come out with 2.1, 2.2, 2.4. 2.5 and 2.6, all freely downloadable to anyone who bought 2.0.

Then they come out with 3.0, for 55 bucks, or only maybe 20 bucks if you bought 2.0. Over the next year, you get 3. 1, 3.2, 3.3, etc.

So, the loyal patrons get a year's worth of new stuff for 20 bucks, they get all their friends to try it, the company stays in business, and everyone gets most of the new features they want (eventually.)

One trick would be to allow someone with 2.0 to continue playing on the dynaverse with people who bought 3.0, only they don't get to use the new goodies that 3.0 added. (That model works for features, but I don't know how it would work with bug fixes, maybe you would want to seperate bug fix downloads, that would continue to be free for everyone, from new feature downloads, that people would pay for, if that makes sense.) Too complicated? Well come on, if we weren't all brains to begin with, we wouldn't be playing this game. ;^)

Now, onto licensing... Interplay had to license both Star Trek TOS & TMP from Paramount, as well as SFB from ADB? Is that a correct understanding? I always understood that Paramount refused to admit that ADB's 'license', (which they actually sub-licensed from Lou Zocci, for the Starfleet Technical Manual, or some such, before the advent of the computer game and before Paramount really woke up to the licensing monster that is Trek...) ever included the right to make SFB into a computer game. In fact, for a while, they were denying that ADB's license was valid enough to cover SFB in the first place, though they seem to have eventually backed off that...

So now, Paramount HAS granted the right to make Trek computer games to other companies, and you have to have THAT license, from Paramount, PLUS the license from ADB... And Taldren purchased the ADB license to make OP, right? But they (or who ever they contract out to,) still need the Paramount Trek License to legaly make GAW...

Does anyone out there have a firm grasp of copyright law? Anyone who knows the actual legal ins and outs of this situation? We need a detailed description from someone who really knows...

Hey, Reverend, have you tried BattleCruiser 3000? Just asking...

Chaos

Reverend · « **Reply #138 on:** July 15, 2003, 03:51:19 pm »

I sympathize with you Hypergol.... wish we could have 1,2, and OP finished like you say- heck, I'd play it easily. Tholians are weird and neat!
Chaos, I haven't seen Battlecruiiser 3000.... what does it have that SFC doesn't, no offense?
Hope I haven't made Sethan too mad, though he was pretty harsh on me- sokay, I'm adamant about my wishes too.
Where can we go from here? Petition the next licensee? Make us a real game this time- GAW, EAW, whatever, just make us a finished game for Pete's sake.

Reverend · « **Reply #139 on:** July 15, 2003, 03:54:03 pm »

Capt Chaos- everyone- I believe you have a good point. Lets all call attorneys in our area about copyright law concerning such. Maybe lines can be drawn beforehand- that could intone progress, yes? No?

News:

Topic: If Trek Liscense is Split Up Again, What Happens to SFC Series? (Read 23850 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Scipio_66

Reverend

Scipio_66

Reverend

Rod O'neal

FireSoul

Reverend

Reverend

Reverend

NannerSlug

Cleaven

Reverend

Sethan

Reverend

Reverend

Mr. Hypergol

Lepton1

Cpt. Chaos

Reverend

Reverend

Topic: If Trek Liscense is Split Up Again, What Happens to SFC Series? (Read 23850 times)