Topic: A funny thing happened on the way to...... (Read 5168 times)

Sorok · « **on:** July 07, 2003, 12:48:31 pm »

Well, here's the story.....

I stopped in to my local PC store the other day and bought myself a copy of EF2. After I got home, I quickly installed the game, and started playing the single player missions. Having played SFC3 religiously for about 7 months now, you can imagine how surprised I was to find NO BUGS in the new title. I couldn't believe it. I almost fell right off my chair. A game with no bugs? Does that really exist? "My god" I said to myself. "Have I been playing SFC3 so much that my level of expectations has dropped so dramatically?"

Then I moved on to multiplayer. Strangely enough, I was actually able to connect to the master server in the blink of an eye. In fact, much to my dumbfounded surprise, I didnt find any bugs there either.
Then the memories started to return..... EF1, Bridge Commander, Armada.....wow, I kinda remember now.....those games weren't too buggy either.....

In a sudden realization, I started to check my SFC3 CD for any hidden markings such as "Anna Kournikova" or "I love you". Nope no virus there. Just buggy code.

All this to say.....Thank the powers that be for gracing the gaming community with another Trek title. I am in heaven once again, and finally delivered from the purgatory I used to refer to as SFC3.

GREAT concept, Taldren.....But poorly executed.

Tulmahk · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2003, 02:55:06 pm »

I agree.

But it hurts to agree because I like Taldren.

Is EF2 truly 100% bug free? No, of course not. But does it have far fewer bugs than SFC3/2/OP/1? You bet.

If your favorite developer releases shoddy product, you as a paying customer have every right to call them on it. And when you see other developers nailing the quality thing with great efficiency, you know it is possible to achieve. There is no excuse.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. The next Star Trek starship combat sim needs to come from a different producer and developer.

Dash Jones · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2003, 04:54:55 pm »

Is EF2 stinky compared to EF1? Yes.

Of course this is personal opinion.

Of course you have to understand...I didn't like EF1 that much in the first place...preferring fps games such as UT2003 and such junk. I'd take an SFC game over an EF game any day of the week. Glad to know someone is enjoying it though. Got to about the 4th level and couldn't take it anymore...put it down...and played something else.

SFC to me is much more fun, enjoyable, and original.

My personal opinion of course.

Mr. Hypergol · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2003, 06:22:52 pm »

This is just my opinion, but I think the level of complexity involved with programming SFC (especially SFC1 and 2/OP) is much higher than that required for a FPS like EF2. Statistically a game like SFC should be much more buggy. The amount of data being crunched by SFC is immense compared to a FPS.

Having played the board game Star Fleet Battles over the last 20 years I realized many years ago what a task it would be to computerize that game. It's daunting. Comparing the programming required of EF2 to SFC is not fair.....IMHO.

Vysander · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2003, 08:30:44 pm »

just not worth it

Cleaven · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2003, 02:44:28 am »

I would be asking how much of the game engine was already written beforehand, and how much new technology there is in the game. My experience with most games (SFC-TNG included) is that they seem to work well straight out of the box, as you learn to play single player missions or campaigns, but as you learn more about a game and go online or head to head you realise that there are problems with in-game systems not working as they should, and dealing with server bugs.

I wonder how many fixes that they have been through with the various games using the Quake 3 engine.

So I am not surprised that Elite Force appears better, because these days if you can't make a FPS (based on an existing engine) work seemingly trouble-free straight out of the box then you really have a problem.

Sorok · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2003, 08:45:21 am »

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. My original post referred to other games besides EF.

Mr. Hypergol · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2003, 09:45:33 am »

Quote:

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. My original post referred to other games besides EF.

Sorok, my opinion of the others would be the same. There's a lot more being crunched in SFC. Armada might be the most complicated of the others but I don't think it's as difficult to program as SFC.

Thanks for the lecture V, I was mostly thinking of SFC1 and 2/OP although SFC3 is probably complex too........I'm still unconvinced. But hey, what do I know.....I'm just a rocket scientist not a programmer.

It's just my opinion that SFC programming has to be pretty complex based on what I know about the "phone book" sized SFB rulebooks I own.

Vysander · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2003, 12:44:10 pm »

just.. not.. worth it

Sorok · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2003, 01:14:06 pm »

Points well made, DJ.

Now, I don't claim to know much about anything, but here's what I do know....

Of ALL the games I've ever bought/played, SFC3 is FAR AND AWAY the buggiest piece of software I've ever witnessed. Sure all other softwares have bugs. But watching a motion video skipping a frame is totally different from Hangups, Crashes, and forced reboots.

We can all go on and on about how difficult and complex code is from one game to another, but at the end of the day all you you can do is make excuses for a product that should have never escaped from Q&A. I won't deny the potential greatness of the SFC series, but I also won't deny the prolongued life of the "ON" button on my PC which I've had to hold down for an outstanding accumulation of minutes in order to restart my system.

Bottom line, reboot does not equal fun. And, as I originally stated, playing another game besides SFC3 has simply reminded me of how fun gaming can actually be when you're playing instead of swearing.

Dash Jones · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2003, 02:41:18 pm »

Point well made on your part about fun.

grave · « **Reply #13 on:** July 08, 2003, 04:27:56 pm »

you know im not sure about everyone else but i bought this game on a pre-order and i think i might be the only one here that plays this game on a system with LESS yes i say LESS than the system minuim requirments.. not just processer (PIII 350) but vidio card as well as ram. and i have only expirenced a few problems with the game. and nothing i couldint work around .. cept being slow, but then if i had a better puter.... so i think people should just thank them (the programmers) for even makeing a new SFC game. they didnt HAVE to but did. so here are my 2 cents worth. if you dont like the game dont play it and quit bitching. if you do like the game and enjoy it then lets play it and have fun. all this whining and grying makes me want to remove my name from this and several other forms cause i get tird of reading the same bitch over and over.
well hope i dont offend anyone,
mouvar

Alexander1701 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2003, 02:00:10 am »

See, to draw another example, there's the mmorpg Shadowbane.

It was just as buggy as SFC out of the box. It's still fairly bad.

What makes it so special?

Weekly Patches. Every week you'll get a patch, and more bugs will be solved. It's good to know that if something's wrong, it'll be fixed.

Yes, Taldren is working on it, but when you don;t hear for so long you think 'backburner'.
Yes, Shadowbane has a monthly fee. They ALSO have 8 servers than can hold 1000 people each running 24-7.

I really wish that we could have lots and lots of little patches. At least it'd feel like things were getting done...

Alexander

Reverend · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2003, 01:53:33 am »

It also feel nice to have a continuous space version of the game- not little dorky missions- I dont recall the TV show having a hex map or sitting around waiting for a mission.

loc621 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2003, 09:01:35 am »

I too was amazed with its smoothness, great game damded hard though, the oulse phaser section is nigh on imposible to do

Sorok · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2003, 12:48:31 pm »

Well, here's the story.....

I stopped in to my local PC store the other day and bought myself a copy of EF2. After I got home, I quickly installed the game, and started playing the single player missions. Having played SFC3 religiously for about 7 months now, you can imagine how surprised I was to find NO BUGS in the new title. I couldn't believe it. I almost fell right off my chair. A game with no bugs? Does that really exist? "My god" I said to myself. "Have I been playing SFC3 so much that my level of expectations has dropped so dramatically?"

Then I moved on to multiplayer. Strangely enough, I was actually able to connect to the master server in the blink of an eye. In fact, much to my dumbfounded surprise, I didnt find any bugs there either.
Then the memories started to return..... EF1, Bridge Commander, Armada.....wow, I kinda remember now.....those games weren't too buggy either.....

In a sudden realization, I started to check my SFC3 CD for any hidden markings such as "Anna Kournikova" or "I love you". Nope no virus there. Just buggy code.

All this to say.....Thank the powers that be for gracing the gaming community with another Trek title. I am in heaven once again, and finally delivered from the purgatory I used to refer to as SFC3.

GREAT concept, Taldren.....But poorly executed.

Tulmahk · « **Reply #20 on:** July 07, 2003, 02:55:06 pm »

I agree.

But it hurts to agree because I like Taldren.

Is EF2 truly 100% bug free? No, of course not. But does it have far fewer bugs than SFC3/2/OP/1? You bet.

If your favorite developer releases shoddy product, you as a paying customer have every right to call them on it. And when you see other developers nailing the quality thing with great efficiency, you know it is possible to achieve. There is no excuse.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. The next Star Trek starship combat sim needs to come from a different producer and developer.

Dash Jones · « **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2003, 04:54:55 pm »

Is EF2 stinky compared to EF1? Yes.

Of course this is personal opinion.

Of course you have to understand...I didn't like EF1 that much in the first place...preferring fps games such as UT2003 and such junk. I'd take an SFC game over an EF game any day of the week. Glad to know someone is enjoying it though. Got to about the 4th level and couldn't take it anymore...put it down...and played something else.

SFC to me is much more fun, enjoyable, and original.

My personal opinion of course.

Mr. Hypergol · « **Reply #22 on:** July 07, 2003, 06:22:52 pm »

This is just my opinion, but I think the level of complexity involved with programming SFC (especially SFC1 and 2/OP) is much higher than that required for a FPS like EF2. Statistically a game like SFC should be much more buggy. The amount of data being crunched by SFC is immense compared to a FPS.

Having played the board game Star Fleet Battles over the last 20 years I realized many years ago what a task it would be to computerize that game. It's daunting. Comparing the programming required of EF2 to SFC is not fair.....IMHO.

Vysander · « **Reply #23 on:** July 07, 2003, 08:30:44 pm »

just not worth it

Cleaven · « **Reply #24 on:** July 08, 2003, 02:44:28 am »

I would be asking how much of the game engine was already written beforehand, and how much new technology there is in the game. My experience with most games (SFC-TNG included) is that they seem to work well straight out of the box, as you learn to play single player missions or campaigns, but as you learn more about a game and go online or head to head you realise that there are problems with in-game systems not working as they should, and dealing with server bugs.

I wonder how many fixes that they have been through with the various games using the Quake 3 engine.

So I am not surprised that Elite Force appears better, because these days if you can't make a FPS (based on an existing engine) work seemingly trouble-free straight out of the box then you really have a problem.

Sorok · « **Reply #25 on:** July 08, 2003, 08:45:21 am »

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. My original post referred to other games besides EF.

Vysander · « **Reply #28 on:** July 08, 2003, 12:44:10 pm »

just.. not.. worth it

Sorok · « **Reply #29 on:** July 08, 2003, 01:14:06 pm »

Points well made, DJ.

Now, I don't claim to know much about anything, but here's what I do know....

Of ALL the games I've ever bought/played, SFC3 is FAR AND AWAY the buggiest piece of software I've ever witnessed. Sure all other softwares have bugs. But watching a motion video skipping a frame is totally different from Hangups, Crashes, and forced reboots.

We can all go on and on about how difficult and complex code is from one game to another, but at the end of the day all you you can do is make excuses for a product that should have never escaped from Q&A. I won't deny the potential greatness of the SFC series, but I also won't deny the prolongued life of the "ON" button on my PC which I've had to hold down for an outstanding accumulation of minutes in order to restart my system.

Bottom line, reboot does not equal fun. And, as I originally stated, playing another game besides SFC3 has simply reminded me of how fun gaming can actually be when you're playing instead of swearing.

Dash Jones · « **Reply #30 on:** July 08, 2003, 02:41:18 pm »

Point well made on your part about fun.

grave · « **Reply #32 on:** July 08, 2003, 04:27:56 pm »

you know im not sure about everyone else but i bought this game on a pre-order and i think i might be the only one here that plays this game on a system with LESS yes i say LESS than the system minuim requirments.. not just processer (PIII 350) but vidio card as well as ram. and i have only expirenced a few problems with the game. and nothing i couldint work around .. cept being slow, but then if i had a better puter.... so i think people should just thank them (the programmers) for even makeing a new SFC game. they didnt HAVE to but did. so here are my 2 cents worth. if you dont like the game dont play it and quit bitching. if you do like the game and enjoy it then lets play it and have fun. all this whining and grying makes me want to remove my name from this and several other forms cause i get tird of reading the same bitch over and over.
well hope i dont offend anyone,
mouvar

Alexander1701 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 11, 2003, 02:00:10 am »

See, to draw another example, there's the mmorpg Shadowbane.

It was just as buggy as SFC out of the box. It's still fairly bad.

What makes it so special?

Weekly Patches. Every week you'll get a patch, and more bugs will be solved. It's good to know that if something's wrong, it'll be fixed.

Yes, Taldren is working on it, but when you don;t hear for so long you think 'backburner'.
Yes, Shadowbane has a monthly fee. They ALSO have 8 servers than can hold 1000 people each running 24-7.

I really wish that we could have lots and lots of little patches. At least it'd feel like things were getting done...

Alexander

Reverend · « **Reply #35 on:** July 15, 2003, 01:53:33 am »

It also feel nice to have a continuous space version of the game- not little dorky missions- I dont recall the TV show having a hex map or sitting around waiting for a mission.

loc621 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 16, 2003, 09:01:35 am »

I too was amazed with its smoothness, great game damded hard though, the oulse phaser section is nigh on imposible to do

News:

Topic: A funny thing happened on the way to...... (Read 5168 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Sorok

Tulmahk

Dash Jones

Mr. Hypergol

Vysander

Cleaven

Sorok

Mr. Hypergol

Dash Jones

Vysander

Sorok

Dash Jones

Mr. Hypergol

grave

Vysander

Alexander1701

Reverend

Alidar Jarok

loc621

Sorok

Tulmahk

Dash Jones

Mr. Hypergol

Vysander

Cleaven

Sorok

Mr. Hypergol

Dash Jones

Vysander

Sorok

Dash Jones

Mr. Hypergol

grave

Vysander

Alexander1701

Reverend

Alidar Jarok

loc621

Topic: A funny thing happened on the way to...... (Read 5168 times)