Topic: Gamespot Editor's SFC1 Comment (Read 6640 times)

Magnum357 · « **Reply #40 on:** July 03, 2003, 08:07:14 pm »

I think I agree with you guys. Although I do like SFC3 and still play it alot, making the game have hardly any roots from SFC1,2, and OP was not a wise move. Like what 3Dot14 said, just because you slap the "Starfleet Command" name on it or the Star Trek name on a title, doesn't mean it will sell just aswell as before. The game mechanics are so different in SFC3 compared to the previous versions that it literly is a whole different game. Most fans of the earlier versions (a good chunk of which are SFB fans) saw that their was little point in buying the 3 version since EAW and OP's game systems where proven tested by the old Paper and Pencel system of SFB. SFB's rule system has been around for over 20 years and has a large following. A good majority of SFB fans bought SFC1, 2, and OP because its based on their rule system. Since SFC3 has completely different mechanics, their was little point in buying the title.

If the rumors are true that Activision is going to sue Viacom, and that Star Trek's financial worth is going down the toilet, why not make a deal with ADB and base this so called "Galaxies at War" with the blessing of that small company? Granted, it would not be Star Trek, but with the way Star Trek is going lately its getting too expensive to buy the licence anyway and it might be a whole lot cheaper to negotiate with ADB. Also, you know then that since it is based on the SFB game mechanics, you will certainly get the SFB crowd back. Heck, you might even convince ADB to do make some more material for SFB based on time periods of later Generations (like their version of what ships would be like in the Next Generation of SFB). Both Taldren and ADB could flourish together if they neogotiated with one another. Forget Star Trek, if the franchise is really dieing, then what is the point in trying to get the licence for it?

NannerSlug · « **Reply #41 on:** July 03, 2003, 08:11:45 pm »

a better designed game in your own opinion, pi.

the demise of the series has far more involved than either side would like to admit. would GaW have sold more? HELL NO! the core of the sfc series is probably not sfb folk - but folk like my self who like star trek. the sfb engine did well and provided hours of fun - that is true... but it is also true that a good game does not have to be based on that rule set to work.

do we know how bad sfc3 went? not really.

GaW might be popular around here and a few other places.. but you ask the average person - or do your market research - would you buy a game with tholians and andros or with the borg and species whatever/ dominion.. hmm.. wonder which would get the vote..

could sfc3 play have been improved.. in hindsight, probably (i miss my t-bombs. heh) - but not for the reasons you might think.. there are many, many folk playing both the patched and unpatched servers who are enjoying the game.. and that is with no official support from activision.. and NO DEMO for sfc3.. the demo thing is a killer for me, simply put.

ask your self - do you buy a game which does not have a demo. my answer is no. i want to try the game before i lay out 50 bucks on it. the only game i have not done so is with R6: raven shield.. and that has more to do with research for punkbuster than game play (though the game play is sweet). there was a demo for sfc1 and for sfc2.. but none for sfc3.. in my opinion - i think that hurt a problem which already exisisted because of the whole beta/official patch situation. lets put sfc2/op is the same boat as sfc3 is now and see how many people would have purchased it.

finally, regarding the "core of the game." many of us simply enjoy playing a good game - what rule set it uses doesnt matter as long as the game is good. i am fairly confident that many folks didnt read the box or play the game and say *gasp* they changed the whole game on me - this is an outrage. they simply played the game and either like it or they dont. reminder: it is possible for folks to like both.. but i know that goes against some people's conventional wisdom.

in short, lighten up and play the game. either you like it or you dont.

one other thing, for the most part, you dont get the evil balance complaining threads that you did with sfc2. THAT is in its self an accomplishment. instead of focusing on all the negative things - why not point out the positives.. but that would be counter productive and actually prove that people buy the game for it being a solid trek combat simulator instead of being an sfb game (which is what i believe is the case).

i would love to see the sales numbers on each of the games at this point.

3dot14 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 03, 2003, 08:25:32 pm »

LOL. The Isreali and Palestinians will get peace faster than we do, Nanner. I am really beginning ro see this World (real world) conflict at a newer level. Just imagine that we can't even agree to a game design, let alone politics, and world issues.

I disagree with most of your post, and I have counters for them, and no doubt you will disagree with all my counter and counter and counter...

What we need is someone who has a vision (not Bush, right now, it's Sharon) who is willing to blink first. (Vision, Blink, get it?

)

I will make a mental to avoid this subject as much as possible. (I may still be baited into it in the future, I am sorry to admit.) Peace.

Demandred · « **Reply #43 on:** July 03, 2003, 09:01:16 pm »

I've noticed an interesting thing recently (may just be in the GFL but I would doubt it). More and more people are coming back to SFC2/OP from SFC3. I wouldn't really know as I haven't played SFC3, but it seems to me like the game has less staying power than the earlier versions.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #44 on:** July 03, 2003, 09:11:37 pm »

well pi, i think a lot can be done by people simply accepting that a) there is more than 1 right answer to a question regarding preferences in games we play.. its all about personal opinion. b) realize and yes, respect that the other person's likes are different - not any less than your own.

simply put - you can agree to disagree. swallow our pride and just say - hey, that might be what you like, but i might like somthing different.. it really is that simple.. (think camaro vs mustang debate.. THAT can get heated. lol)

all the nagging/slandering of sfc3 does no more than irritate me. i like sfc3. i love the TNZ and DW mods.. so sue me.

that does not make sfc2 any better or worse..

here is another example.. which is better.. counter strike or rainbow 6.. battlefield 1942 or medal of honor.. its all about opinion, pi.

and i do firmly believe that the core group of this game who spend money on this game are trek fans.. but is that what there is an issue over.. the alledged soul of this group.. trek or sfb? at that point i would really, truly love to see the marketing research they did for sfc3.. and trust me, they had to do some sort of marketing research.. you dont just spend several million dollars on computer game development without doing your homework.

like wise, i also believe its true regarding the whole patch/no demo process and the impact it has had on this game/series. i also doubt that many of the sfc3 players visit here - but are out there on their own.. how many people heard of korah or pelican before sfc3? what about many of the other new folk who enjoy sfc3?

again pi - just agree to disagree.. but one thing i can do, is supportive of the OP/eaw patch process and pray for an sfc3 patch.

Mr. Hypergol · « **Reply #45 on:** July 03, 2003, 10:31:44 pm »

Nanner,

I like you and respect you for standing your ground. I disagree with you but hey.....it's a good and interesting debate.

You know what my real problem is?

They made SFC3 TNG instead of SFC3 GAW....and then SFC4 TNG.

That just irks me.

Damn them!!!

jimmi7769 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 03, 2003, 10:43:30 pm »

Quote:

(think camaro vs mustang debate.. THAT can get heated. lol)

That's an easy one...Firebird.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #47 on:** July 03, 2003, 11:34:46 pm »

hyper - that is another, but seperate issue from where i am coming from. i know that there are people who want that particular expansion set for the sfc2 based engine.. should they be able to get that? sure i would simply because i think some people would have a good time with it. however, that does not mean that people should try and deligitimize and demean sfc3 in the mean time. sfc3 is exactly that, sfc3. plain and simple.

i would have loved a lot more things in sfc3 (like say more ships like in tnz).. i would love to have seen a more indepth bridge commander with its 3d combat.. (its multiplayer rocked when you got into squadron fights and could warp from system to system) i would have loved to have seen a marathon 4 instead of halo.. (dont get me wrong, halo rocks - but its not marathon) i am still waiting for a multiera star trek game.. sfc3 came darn close to being a perfect game for me.. if we can ever get a first year available and last year availble setting for it, ill be home free with the TNZ and DW mods.. thats all i need!

simply put.. history is repleat with many of us not getting things we want.. busines is business.. that doesnt make it right or wrong - and i know some folks were disappointed - but in the same breath that doesnt give people the right to start a tar and feather session.. im not sure who said it, but some one mentioned to me that the bulk of the sfc3 community doesnt even come to the taldren forums - i dont blame them in a way.. i really wish people could just bond the wounds and support each other on issues. that is not a joke either.

right now, whether folks like to admit it or not, the lack of official support for sfc3 and no demo are the primary sources of grief.. and will probably ultimately hurt things.. but on the other hand, i thought of this.. can you imagine the elite force 2 folk?

Toasty0 · « **Reply #48 on:** July 04, 2003, 02:09:52 am »

In my opine Taldren tried like hell to make SFC:TNG, but some folks who had no clue used their positon to force the making of SFC:FPS (read: First Person Shooter). They simply failed to grasp the core concepts behind Trek's Trek-Space-Naval-Sim organic (if I can be so bold as to call it that).

In many ways, if you just change the SFC3 models from ships to figures what you have is a FPS game. I'm not bagging on SFC3. It's a fun, entertaining, exciting game. But, imho, it is the models only in this instance that make it a SFC universe and not the game play.

Of course I could be wrong.

Best,
Jerry

The_Infiltrator · « **Reply #49 on:** July 04, 2003, 10:50:49 am »

Nanner: the energizer bunny of the SFC world. Or is it the titanic band of the SFC world?

jimmi7769 · « **Reply #50 on:** July 04, 2003, 11:10:33 am »

This has become tiresome.

hobbesmaster · « **Reply #52 on:** July 07, 2003, 05:32:19 pm »

Hmmm, how many years have threads just like this occured for?

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #53 on:** July 07, 2003, 09:45:10 pm »

I like SFC 3, despite it's numerous annoying bugs. It's a much more fast paced game, with far less micro managing to worry about. I enjoy the era it takes place in quite a bit. I'll continue to play it, especially when the new patch comes out, fixing those annoying bugs.

But what really attracted me to the SFC series was it's focus on the SFB ruleset. Heck, I've never really played a single game of SFB, despite owning a 1979 Designer's Edition of the game. But that was due to the fact there just wasn't anyone I knew who played the game in my area. I now own a more recent Captain's Edition of the game, regardless of the fact I still don't have many gamers in the area. But, this game gave me the chance to play with anyone across the world.

Granted, I don't play online much, and in fact, I'd probably have my butt handed to me by just about anyone, but I want to do it just because it sticks to the original rules. I can do slightly better in SFC 3 where I have less to worry about, but that's not what I want. I'm still longing to get into one of the major serversfor SFC 3, such as TNZ(But I can't at this time since I tend to stick to Fed no matter what I'm playing, and it's currently full, lolol), but I still tend to lean towards the more true to the original controls. I'll get nuked beyond recoginition a few zillion times in the older games, but I'll still have a big flogging smile on my face when I do it.

I guess when push comes to shove, I really do understand that the new game does appeal to a broader audience with it's simplified interface, and how that is important. I just wish there was the original interface as well for us old farts...

<Edit>
Hehe, I can remember the first time I sat in front of my dad's computer, and decided to give SFC 1 a shot. I hadn't bought it yet myself, but thought "Hey! This looks cool." as I was babysitting the dogs. Not 24 hours had passed before I made a beeline for the software store and picked up SFC II, EAW. I was so hooked, I couldn't see straight. I spent hour upon hour playing until my eyes were beginning to melt from the electromagnetic radiation from my monitor. The only interruption was the birth of my son(Pretty scary, I should probably get out a bit more, lol). Took a break for while, bought SFC3, and that really started me going back into SFCII. But I still enjoy SFC3, regardless.

And, yet, with all those hours of playing, I stink at it more than anyone has stunk before... Go figure, eh?

3dot14

Re: Gamespot Editor's SFC1 Comment

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