Topic: The Upcoming OP Patch, Multi-Era Mods, thoughts

[Chris Jones]

     The recent activity surrounding the upcoming OP Patch got me thinking. Generally, after Orion Pirates was released, I enjoyed it more than EAW. When I was putting together my Multi-Era Mod for EAW (online now on my Frost-Works site) I was thinking that Multi-Era would be a big challenge for OP.  Recently I have been helping with testing of the new OP Patch. Although I don't have the SFB Knowledge that the other testers for the patch do, I have been randomly playing the game looking for anything that doesn't look right. To get a different perspective on things, Just today I plugged the EAW Multi-Era shiplist (recently updated by Indigo Falcon on my own Forums), plugged in all the cartel designations from the TNG Mod for OP(using Excel), and tried her out. The theory is this:

Early Era -   TOS
Mid Era   -    TMP
Late Era  -   TNG
Advanced - Voyager and beyond..



TNG THOLIANS - there's a cloaked one... Obviously this Galaxy is not Canon - this was my Fun ship in EAW Multi-Era.







The shiplist would need to be updated for OP, with OP specific weaponry on some ships, and there are a lot of ???.

What I might do is release what I have and let people play with it. If there is a desire.  

[Klingon Fanatic]

Chris,

Check your e-mail!

I am using the Tholians in the OrionOrion Cartel slot and having a blast! Tigerheart is too limited a slot for them IMHO; no real capital ships...

I am still waiting for a few KA Tholian kitbashes by Terradyne to be lit and resized by Atheorhaven as well as  a few Romulans, V-4 from Anduril, a high ploy Melak and a few of Thulls' Romulans to complete what I've worked on for a TMP mod.

Qapla!

KF

[FireSoul]

I suggest you hold out and wait for the patch before starting on a mod. You never know what they may fix, after all. With at least 1 issue, now that it's fixed (but I won't talk about it of course), it means mods may be 'broken'.

.. So .. wait and see is my suggestion.

-- Luc

[Chris Jones]

Yes - all I've done thus far is put a preliminary shiplist together.. in the early stages..
This will not released next week or anything.. This will no doubt last the summer in production. I already have an e-mail offering help.. I have other projects as well.. involving Bridge Commander.. that will compete for my attention..




 

[Kieran Forester]

Hey Chris, any progress on compiling the TNG OP mod into a single download? I know it says on your website it'll be over 500 MB, but I've got cable, I can handle it.

[Chris Jones]

Yes this is a possibility - but I'll wait until the next patch is released before I do that, to see how the mod behaves with the patch.


 

[Chris Jones]

Quote:
Chris,

I am using the Tholians in the OrionOrion Cartel slot and having a blast! Tigerheart is too limited a slot for them IMHO; no real capital ships...

KF  

Cool, I'll check into that. The T designation made sense for Tholians.. I could move some things around. Check your e-mail!

[Klingon Fanatic]

More thoughts on what I'm using for a late TMP mod that is non-canon and non-SFB based:

Feds: ALL non-canon ships. A mix of FASA and non-FASA ships but nothing canon! Some great fan ships here too.

Klinks: ALL non-canon ships. A mix of FASA and non-FASA ships but nothing canon!   A few Klingon Academy ships here.

Roms: ALL non-canon ships. A mix of FASA and non-FASA ships but nothing canon! Waiting for  a Romulan V-4, a Skyhawk and a Melak

Gorn: A mix of Thulls SFB style Gorn and kitbashes/styles from Crymson, P81 and others

Orion: A mix of Thulls SFB style pirates, stock pirates, and Cleeve's two Merchantmen

OrionOrion = Klingon Academy Tholians/KA kitbashes and Hollis J. Wood's TNG Tholians (KA retextured). I want to keep the KA theme alive. They are allied with you most of the time I've been playing as a Fed player.

OrionSyndicate = Mirror Universe Imperials: ALL P81 EXPLORER/ODYSSEY variants and or kitbashed ships along with the D2 Exaclibur as the PCX. I figure the Imperials have more uniformity of design than the hodge-podge of Federation ships we are used to seeing. It works out great as a nice diversion when you fight as the Feds on the Romulan border...

OrionKorgath = A mix of SFB and other non-canon, mostly non FASA Klinks. I figure House Korgath pushes its resources to the maximum and uses older ship models as it does not have the resources of the entire Klingon Empire YET!

Prime Industries = A mix of non-canon, mostly non-FASA Roms. I figure this is really a radical offshoot of the Tal Shiar that, like House Korgath, is a threat to peace even though they don't have the resources of an entire empire behind them.

OrionWyldeFire: There location seems appropriate for TMP style Andromedans/kitbashes by Darkdrone.

I am considering using SkinMan's Leigons as the Beast Raiders cartel but his Sunspider makes an EXCELLENT replacement for the Astrominer....

I really want the new patch and a few more models before I'm ready to do more than this...

Qapla!

KF  

[Chris Jones]

I'm still moving things around..

I'll go through the races and eras here when ready..

KF - that setup looks superb..

Here's my first draft of the races... taken from the aastrings.txt file
Since we are spannng all eras. I'm doubling up a bit. Doing Random skirmishes is quite interesting.

Federation
Klingon
Romulan
Lyran/Dominion (Dominion in Late/Advanced)
Hydran/Breen   (Breen in Late/Advanced - some Hydrans remain in Late)
Gorn/Borg  -- Gorn in TOS and TMP - Borg all eras (Thanks to Enterprise)
ISC - all eras
Mirak/Cardassian (Cardassian in Late/Advanced eras only)
Orion/Ferengi (These guys just naturally go together. The Ferengi will be avialable only in late and advanced eras.
Korgath/Duras (Two Klingon Houses combining resources)
Mirror Federation (Yes we'll have all eras here as well)
Tholians - all eras
Aliens  - all eras
Maquis  - fighters/light cruisers - I'm thinking there were renegade Feds in TOS and TMP
Kazon (need something here for early (TOS) and mid (TMP) eras..)
Camboro Pirates (all eras)

Feel free to comment.  


 

[FireSoul]

what about engine doubling and pirates?

[Klingon Fanatic]

Quote:
what about engine doubling and pirates?  

Normally, I use the Lyran slots for the Tholians. However, I have rediscovered Thulls' Lyrans and felt that there are enough Lyran players out there that would be upset if the Mirak simply conquered them.

Lyrans = A mix of Stock, kitbashes by Thulls and Sbloyd's Oceleot NCA

Mirak = A Mix of mostly stock models with Sbloyd's Mirak as well as the TNG Mirak by Hollis J. Wood and TheSkinman.

I wish Firesoul, that you would consider adding Tholians and Andromedans to your wonderful specfile. I would gladly use them.  At the present time I have not changed any stats on that specfile, only what model it points too. I have SFB style Tholian stats and Andromedan stats provided to me by other players I have playtested but not yet incorporated.

Here'e what I have so far:

Engine doubling for the Andromedans and Tholians. In the case of the Andromedans I don't see this as a big problem.

Power Absorption Panels, my thought is increase the Andromedans sheild strengths by increments of 25. A satellite ship that could pass for a 'Frigate' could have 25 points for each of its sheilds, a 'destroyer' 50 pts, a light cruiser '75' and up. If the Andros truly are the TOS 'Borg' of SFB then it should be worrisome to have them at your front door!

Naturally, if the Andros are in the OrionWyldefire Cartel slot their political tension would have to be changed so they hate everybody.

Andromedans have cloaking as there is NO displacement device. If the next patch fixes the cloak this will be a great help.

Andromedans have Heavy and Light TRBs.

Andromedan Satellite ships can be launched in a manner similar to how I've heard them described as being launched.

As it was pointed out to me, the end result is that you have SOMETHING like how a battle against the Andros would LOOK like even though we don't have all the proper tools.

I am open to suggestions.

Qapla!

KF
 

[FireSoul]

Quote:

I wish Firesoul, that you would consider adding Tholians and Andromedans to your wonderful specfile. I would gladly use them. At the present time I have not changed any stats on that specfile, only what model it points too. I have SFB style Tholian stats and Andromedan stats provided to me by other players I have playtested but not yet incorporated.

.. then it wouldn't be OP+ anymore. My shiplist is more of an enhancement of the stock OP shiplist than a mod. I felt it was very important to preserve everything the game already has in the very same style. It works very well because of that.

-- Luc

[Klingon Fanatic]

Quote:

Quote:

I wish Firesoul, that you would consider adding Tholians and Andromedans to your wonderful specfile. I would gladly use them. At the present time I have not changed any stats on that specfile, only what model it points too. I have SFB style Tholian stats and Andromedan stats provided to me by other players I have playtested but not yet incorporated.

.. then it wouldn't be OP+ anymore. My shiplist is more of an enhancement of the stock OP shiplist than a mod. I felt it was very important to preserve everything the game already has in the very same style. It works very well because of that.

-- Luc  

I still fail to see how this wouldn't be an OP+ project Firesoul.  Your adding things and not taking anything away from Taldren.

What I'm talking about is using what is ALREADY in game to add the "missing" races most SFBers want anyway. We all know about the Andro displacement devices and Tholian webs not working but most of us fans of SFC could live with work arounds.  I compare this to Chris Jone's TNG Mods... That helped show Taldren that there was potential in a TNG offshoot of the SFC series(SFC3 *cough*).

I would ask that you consider doing the same with a "Galaxies at War" style spec file  as you have done so much to show what Taldren could have done with their OP game already. Galaxies at War would probably have incorporated a good chunk of Klingon Academy material (KA Tholians, Suv' Wlqeh et. al.) that Taldren left out and didn't bring over from KA to make a SFB style game. Besides we have most of the ship/base models you'd need from that game already....

At any rate Firesoul, your spec file is a joy to work with and I LOVE what you have done for the community.

Thank you.

KF  

[FireSoul]

It would indeed make it a very different project. Heck, let me be plain and clear..

OP+ contains additional official SFB ships for all the races that are found in SFC:OP. It will contain many fixes to other ships already included in the shiplist. No modification to those races will be made. This shiplist merely an enhanced version of the stock Taldren shiplist which came with the game.

.. There are many other races, such as Andros, Tholians, Wyn Fish Ships, Seltorians, Jindarians, the Frax simulator race, the Canadi'ens, the Megellanic Cloud races, Omega Sector, etc. However, none have a place in the plain shiplist OP+ is. The rules have been established for the given races already, and I follow them.

-- Luc

[Corbomite]

Quote:
It would indeed make it a very different project. Heck, let me be plain and clear..

OP+ contains additional official SFB ships for all the races that are found in SFC:OP. It will contain many fixes to other ships already included in the shiplist. No modification to those races will be made. This shiplist merely an enhanced version of the stock Taldren shiplist which came with the game.

.. There are many other races, such as Andros, Tholians, Wyn Fish Ships, Seltorians, Jindarians, the Frax simulator race, the Canadi'ens, the Megellanic Cloud races, Omega Sector, etc. However, none have a place in the plain shiplist OP+ is. The rules have been established for the given races already, and I follow them.

-- Luc  

Not to mention that we have no race specific weapons for these races. I for one don't really want halfassed versions of these races. For me it's do it right or don't do it at all.

[Chris Jones]

KF -

It would have to be your own independent project, starting from the stock OP shiplist, once the new patch is released.
Perhaps your TMP Mod could reflect what you are looking for.

[Klingon Fanatic]

Quote:
KF -

It would have to be your own independent project, starting from the stock OP shiplist, once the new patch is released.
Perhaps your TMP Mod could reflect what you are looking for.  

I guess your right Chris, that was my tentative plan all along. I figure I would  get fewer people upset with my non-SFB/non-Canon take on things that way, LOL. I still wish there were more support from the SFB gurus out there though. I was looking at this as a way to introduce newbies to general SFB stuff beyond EAW/OP.

Best wishes to all,

KF

[Mr. Hypergol]

 

Quote:
 I still fail to see how this wouldn't be an OP+ project Firesoul. Your adding things and not taking anything away from Taldren.
 

I have to agree.  I wanted Galaxies at War bad, but it didn't happen.  My greatest hope now is that either Chris Jones or Firesoul would take on the idea of releasing a shiplist that added Tholians and Andros even if they are nerfed a bit by lack of Web and Andro weapons.

The closest things I've seen so far are Chris's TOS mod for OP and Firesoul's OP+ shiplist.  Chris's mod had the right idea but he did not have the time to polish the shiplist.  I worked on it for a while, molding it to my tastes but I never got it to be exactly what I was looking for.

Firesoul's shiplist is polished to perfection and is exactly what I had in mind except he decided not to add in nerfed Tholians and Andros per his philosophy.  I have no problem with his reasonong for what he defines "OP+".

What I want though would be called a "GAW" shiplist.  Could either Firesoul or Chris pull something like this off?  I hope so.  I want something as polished as Firesoul's OP+ shiplist but with Tholians and Andros added.  I would like to use the SFB models from Fleetdock 13 like Chris did in his TOS mod for OP (with Brezgonne's SFB Tholians models also).

Could this be done?  Pretty please?.....I know it would be popular.  Pretty please?  

[Chris Jones]

KF -

   I have a theory developed from 3+ years of Modding these games.
This discussion goes back to the SFB fans and the Star Trek fans discussions. There are many who would like to make OP as close to SFB as possible, using new models and getting the weapons/specs as close as possible to SFB given what OP has. That is the theory I share actually, seeing as I am still hosting an OP mod that used several ships from Fleetdock13. Having never played that board game this would get me close to the strategies and thought patterns of that game. The people who played SFB passionately as a board game don't really want new models with the same OP weapons.

Remember when I offered to do an SFB mod with Tholians, etc, back when SFC3 was announced? It got lukewarm response so I did not pursue it. SFB fans are passionate about having things exactly, or as close to exact as possible. The main question was about simulating the Thoilan Web. I thought the Helllbore was as close as you could get to that, but several people said they didn't want cool models with the same weapons.

  Your mod ideas come from a passion for SFB and for OP. That combination will produce a good Mod I think.

  There have always been two different thought patterns with regard to EAW and OP; the SFB thoughts and the Star Trek thoughts. It was a passion for that board game that brought us the entire SFC series, and without Star Trek the board game would never have happened, at least not in the way we know it.

 

[FireSoul]

a GAW shiplist?
.. interesting idea, except I have my hands full already. Heck, Strafer and I expect R10 and J2 to arrive within days, and we'll have a few hundred ship entries to add to the shiplist. 1 SSD entered correctly usually takes around 10-15 minutes, to give you an idea of how much work was done already, and how much more will be applied.

I'll have to pass the puck to someone else.

-- Luc