Topic: The Supply Screen  (Read 4108 times)

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Max zero

  • Guest
The Supply Screen
« on: January 31, 2003, 06:33:22 am »
The Supply Screen. Is there an actually point to this screen? I mean honestly what do people do here?

They buy shuttles (which they hardly use)
They buy marines (which they hardly use)
They buy mines (which they may not use at all)

Excitement.

Couldn't they just replace the supply screen with a button which says "Resupply" and it maxes everything? In fact why do they even ask us all to resupply, you would assume any half-decent captain that pulls into a starbase would resupply automatically.

Futhermore why do they charge us? Has anyone never been able to afford the 50 prestige (or so) bill after getting 1.5k for a planetary assault? Could you see the Enterprise pulling into a Starbase and the Starbase Captain saying "sorry Picard no more shuttles for you, your just not famous enough!"?

The saddest thing is that this had some good potential. Imagine instead of buying stock standard marines (at 4 pp each) you could buy elite assault ones (20pp each) that are much better at boarding actions or even defensive teams (make boarding actions harder) as part of their marine 'allowance'? You could have all sorts of stuff here with stealth teams, saboteurs, spys, etc. Things could have both a pp and 'population cost'. I suspect that elite electronic warfare team you just bought is going to take more 'space' that some grunts.

The potential for shuttles is immense. Imagine for 80pp each you could buy super shuttles with everything from Quantum Torpedo Shuttles for the Feds to Plasma or Myotronic Shuttles for Rom. Perhaps stuff that could even, sorta, you know fight? Boarding shuttles, scout ships, science vessals (scanning purposes, etc). The list is endless.

Mines is just so dull. Where are cloaked mines, the self replicating mines, plasma bursts, sonar becons, EMP mines, tachyon mines, etc!

Dammit! Now i'm annoyed!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Max zero »

Scarrita

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2003, 07:07:02 am »
I second this. It does seem rather useless to only be able to buy one type of an item.

cherokee158

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2003, 07:16:12 am »
I agree, I think the supplies should at least be a little costlier. I agonize over supply decisions about as often as I agonize over the price of a stamp...  

EmeraldEdge

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2003, 07:25:55 am »
Quote:

Futhermore why do they charge us? Has anyone never been able to afford the 50 prestige (or so) bill after getting 1.5k for a planetary assault? Could you see the Enterprise pulling into a Starbase and the Starbase Captain saying "sorry Picard no more shuttles for you, your just not famous enough!"?




Well, but what if generic captain John Smith comes into port and asks for a full compliment of shuttles.  Some bean counter in starfleet happens to be looking over his record and notices that he really hasn't had that many victories, and that he's lost more shuttles for no gain.  Are they likely to just hand over more shuttles, or maybe start an inquiry into what's happening to all these shuttles that seem to be getting destroyed for no reason.  Of course if he's winning the battles, and not callin' in all the favors to buy new ships and weapons for his new ships, he'll have plenty of prestige to counteract the fact that the NCC-1792 seems to lose WAY too many shuttles, and he'll get his full compliment of shuttles.  

I think the system is technically sound, the problem is that it's horribly underdeveloped.  No actual options in anything, just "fill 'er up" at the station.  As you've said, multiple shuttle types, mine types, marine/special crew types, sure would have spiced this area up.  Nothing we can really do about it now, especially since the interface doesn't support multiple types.  If it did, it would be easier, but as we all know Taldren isn't going to add or expand any features that will require "new art".  

Max zero

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2003, 07:49:29 am »
Thats the thing though. Is there such a thing as a generic starship captain? To be given command of a Fed Starship (even a Saber) would mean you would have had some skills and talent already (ie be a little bit famous).

Well thats the impression I get anyway.

Though you brought up a point I missed earlier. Unlimited supplies. The way people go through marines you think every station has 10,000 marines ready to suit up.

Maybe we could have restricted or limited supplies. Imagine if one planet could make extra good marines or extra tough shuttles. Might make planets a bit more then 4 planetary assaults and 1 scan mission.

Finally if they keep it 'as is' could they at least give me a 'Buy all' so I don't have to click the 'Buy marine' button 40 times?

I somehow doubt resupply conversations go like this:

Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Sorry but your not famous enough."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Max zero »

NJAntman

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2003, 08:26:19 am »
True. True.
The supply screen seems to be a bad holdover from SFC1&2 back where it could actually make a difference. Now it only comes into play a few times in the beginning of a career when you can barely afford a FF. How about adding a  very costly   spare parts category? That may give re-supply some importance again.

How about allowing those damn Ferengi to sell us supplies? They seem to be hanging around every planet, they are traders; put them to a better use then just target practice! I wouldn't mind striking into enemy territory if I could at least but a mine, shuttle, or spare part from a passing Ferengi.  

EmeraldEdge

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2003, 08:31:45 am »
In my opinion prestige isn't really the equivalent of fame.  It's more like political pulling power.  For instance, in politics today, there are certain entities that are "famous"  everyone knows them.  However if push were to come to shove others may not go to bat for them.

Take this to the future.  If you are a well known captain, that doesn' t necessarily mean that you get whatever command you want.  Even if you have done a lot.  You may have Pulled all your favors to get something (spent all your prestige) and thus have no real pulling power left until you go and do something marvelous again to make people stand up and say "Give him what he wants" again.  

The problem comes with a lot of other things in the game.  Outlandish prestige outcomes from missions that really require little effort (some of which should obviously be MUCH harder).  This makes prestige far too easy to come across, and you have, in general, no problem getting what you want in a very small amount of time.  You want a Warbird?  Sure, put in a little bit of time and you're there.

In a perfect world, I would have liked to have seen all sorts of things act like ships, as far as production and even bidding.  Officers, shuttles, etc.  It would make prestige more valuable.  For instance, why is it that you have to go from starbase to starbase to look at new officers, and then click back and forth on the officer screen to see all the officers that may be at the base?  Shouldn't starfleet have a database of available officers that you could pick from and it would mearly take time to "deliver" them to your ship, ala ships.  This should also be a bidding process.  If Spock or Data were up for grabs, how many captains would be tryin' to pull strings to get them on their ship?  (of course this would have to rely on it being VERY hard for your officers to reach the level of those types of officers, while being competent should be fairly standard)  Now, that would have added a lot in my opinion.  But then again I always felt the officers were halfway done.  Why have them be skilled in multiple areas, when you can't switch them to a new position except at a base that has officers available to trade in and out?

Anyhow, we could go on and on about what could have, should have been.  I will eventually do a write up of what I would have liked to have seen, what I feel should have been, and what I'd like to see in the future.  We now have to figure out just what we can do with what we have been given and hope against hope that it will at least function as it was initially intended and not left in a buggy halfway usable  state ala OP.    

Max zero

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2003, 09:23:55 am »
I know what you mean about officers. It seems everyone ends up with legendary crew eventually.

What I would like to see is some rareity in the higher level officers and have them not all end up the same.

Perhaps we could get special skills such as:

Tactical officers can get extra skilled with a particular type of weapon (phaser, etc). You could also  link weapon use with skill eg if you use phasers a lot you will be accurate with them but your Quantum torpedo skills won't be so flash. Plus you need to keep a skill 'in use' or it deteriorates.

Helm officers get talented with 'hull types' rather then 'general skill'. Sure you may be legendary at piloting a Saber but what good is that going to do when your in a Sovereign?

Security officers are pretty good now. I think they could really develop if they had something more to work with then just 'marines'. Oh well.

Ops officers..well not much you could do here (any ideas?). Maybe they could open up new options for Scan and Hail?

Engineering officers have lots of options. They could learn all sorts of new technology skills like 'alien technology' (more effective against certain races), 'experimental weaponry' (effective but unreliable weapons/shields), etc.

Medical officers...hmmm. Maybe they could learn skills like 'alien physiology' (better boarding attacks and defense), 'bio-weapons' (non-Fed only), etc.

To learn these skills you would need minimum 'stats'. These stats raise through usage. To keep people from farming 'skills' make them raise slowly when in computer missions and faster when against other players.

Just would like some more depth, thats all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Max zero »

Tannhauser

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2003, 10:21:13 am »
1.  You forget that the supply screen also lets you rename your ship.  VERY IMPORTANT FEATURE.  
2.  A server can be set to make shuttles, mines, and marines cost more.  Currently, on the GFL server, mines cost about 40pp each.  This is meant to help cut back a bit on the minelayer ships.
3.  About Legendary crew "special abilities":  Awhile back, I recommended something similar.  Basically, when an officer reachs full legendary status, that officer can get a special ability.  This would allow a bit more customization for ships, making them a little closer to being characters.  However, pretty much only one person responded to the idea, and he thought officers were powerful enough to begin with.    

Aliasalpha

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2003, 12:19:36 pm »
I was thinking along the same supply variety lines the other day. I think that antimatter mines for example should be a standard option (though a hell of a lot costlier) and the minelayer heavy weapon should actually give different launching properties.

EG: You can get a minelayer that lets you deploy whilst cloaked, not the MOST useful if you're doing it in front of someone but if they're occupied... Or you could have a minelayer that deploys mines in 3s, 1 behind & 2 on the flanks for a bit of a defensive wall. Warp deployment could be another option but a bit crap. A spray of micro-mines would be cool, less damage individually but a much greater area covered, maybe even impact detonated rather than proximity. Magnetic mines would also be a very attractive concept (geddit? Attractive, magnetic?). Or maybe even an Uber Magnetic Antimatter Mine O' Death for the obsessive minelayers.

I love the idea of marines with specialties. That way you could disable a system with an engineering team. Use demolitions marines to damage the ship, roughly equivelant to a proximity photon impact on an unshielded target. You could have assault & capture marines though these would be a LOT less useful since you can't capture on D3 for some reason.

In a way the officers DO have special abilities when they go legendary, tac officers can chain plasma/photon/quantums (do gravimetric torps chain? Never played borg enough to know). Ops officers seem to detect cloaked ships better, helm officers squeeze better turn rates... I can only speculate that security officers do better boarding actions, medics heal people better or make them more resistant to injury and engineers reduce ship damage. It'd be nice if you could purchase AI ships and promote one of your officers to commanding it.
 

Max zero

  • Guest
The Supply Screen
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2003, 06:33:22 am »
The Supply Screen. Is there an actually point to this screen? I mean honestly what do people do here?

They buy shuttles (which they hardly use)
They buy marines (which they hardly use)
They buy mines (which they may not use at all)

Excitement.

Couldn't they just replace the supply screen with a button which says "Resupply" and it maxes everything? In fact why do they even ask us all to resupply, you would assume any half-decent captain that pulls into a starbase would resupply automatically.

Futhermore why do they charge us? Has anyone never been able to afford the 50 prestige (or so) bill after getting 1.5k for a planetary assault? Could you see the Enterprise pulling into a Starbase and the Starbase Captain saying "sorry Picard no more shuttles for you, your just not famous enough!"?

The saddest thing is that this had some good potential. Imagine instead of buying stock standard marines (at 4 pp each) you could buy elite assault ones (20pp each) that are much better at boarding actions or even defensive teams (make boarding actions harder) as part of their marine 'allowance'? You could have all sorts of stuff here with stealth teams, saboteurs, spys, etc. Things could have both a pp and 'population cost'. I suspect that elite electronic warfare team you just bought is going to take more 'space' that some grunts.

The potential for shuttles is immense. Imagine for 80pp each you could buy super shuttles with everything from Quantum Torpedo Shuttles for the Feds to Plasma or Myotronic Shuttles for Rom. Perhaps stuff that could even, sorta, you know fight? Boarding shuttles, scout ships, science vessals (scanning purposes, etc). The list is endless.

Mines is just so dull. Where are cloaked mines, the self replicating mines, plasma bursts, sonar becons, EMP mines, tachyon mines, etc!

Dammit! Now i'm annoyed!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Max zero »

Scarrita

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2003, 07:07:02 am »
I second this. It does seem rather useless to only be able to buy one type of an item.

cherokee158

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2003, 07:16:12 am »
I agree, I think the supplies should at least be a little costlier. I agonize over supply decisions about as often as I agonize over the price of a stamp...  

EmeraldEdge

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2003, 07:25:55 am »
Quote:

Futhermore why do they charge us? Has anyone never been able to afford the 50 prestige (or so) bill after getting 1.5k for a planetary assault? Could you see the Enterprise pulling into a Starbase and the Starbase Captain saying "sorry Picard no more shuttles for you, your just not famous enough!"?




Well, but what if generic captain John Smith comes into port and asks for a full compliment of shuttles.  Some bean counter in starfleet happens to be looking over his record and notices that he really hasn't had that many victories, and that he's lost more shuttles for no gain.  Are they likely to just hand over more shuttles, or maybe start an inquiry into what's happening to all these shuttles that seem to be getting destroyed for no reason.  Of course if he's winning the battles, and not callin' in all the favors to buy new ships and weapons for his new ships, he'll have plenty of prestige to counteract the fact that the NCC-1792 seems to lose WAY too many shuttles, and he'll get his full compliment of shuttles.  

I think the system is technically sound, the problem is that it's horribly underdeveloped.  No actual options in anything, just "fill 'er up" at the station.  As you've said, multiple shuttle types, mine types, marine/special crew types, sure would have spiced this area up.  Nothing we can really do about it now, especially since the interface doesn't support multiple types.  If it did, it would be easier, but as we all know Taldren isn't going to add or expand any features that will require "new art".  

Max zero

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2003, 07:49:29 am »
Thats the thing though. Is there such a thing as a generic starship captain? To be given command of a Fed Starship (even a Saber) would mean you would have had some skills and talent already (ie be a little bit famous).

Well thats the impression I get anyway.

Though you brought up a point I missed earlier. Unlimited supplies. The way people go through marines you think every station has 10,000 marines ready to suit up.

Maybe we could have restricted or limited supplies. Imagine if one planet could make extra good marines or extra tough shuttles. Might make planets a bit more then 4 planetary assaults and 1 scan mission.

Finally if they keep it 'as is' could they at least give me a 'Buy all' so I don't have to click the 'Buy marine' button 40 times?

I somehow doubt resupply conversations go like this:

Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Okay."
Starship captain: "Transfer another marine onboard please."
Starbase captain: "Sorry but your not famous enough."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Max zero »

NJAntman

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2003, 08:26:19 am »
True. True.
The supply screen seems to be a bad holdover from SFC1&2 back where it could actually make a difference. Now it only comes into play a few times in the beginning of a career when you can barely afford a FF. How about adding a  very costly   spare parts category? That may give re-supply some importance again.

How about allowing those damn Ferengi to sell us supplies? They seem to be hanging around every planet, they are traders; put them to a better use then just target practice! I wouldn't mind striking into enemy territory if I could at least but a mine, shuttle, or spare part from a passing Ferengi.  

EmeraldEdge

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2003, 08:31:45 am »
In my opinion prestige isn't really the equivalent of fame.  It's more like political pulling power.  For instance, in politics today, there are certain entities that are "famous"  everyone knows them.  However if push were to come to shove others may not go to bat for them.

Take this to the future.  If you are a well known captain, that doesn' t necessarily mean that you get whatever command you want.  Even if you have done a lot.  You may have Pulled all your favors to get something (spent all your prestige) and thus have no real pulling power left until you go and do something marvelous again to make people stand up and say "Give him what he wants" again.  

The problem comes with a lot of other things in the game.  Outlandish prestige outcomes from missions that really require little effort (some of which should obviously be MUCH harder).  This makes prestige far too easy to come across, and you have, in general, no problem getting what you want in a very small amount of time.  You want a Warbird?  Sure, put in a little bit of time and you're there.

In a perfect world, I would have liked to have seen all sorts of things act like ships, as far as production and even bidding.  Officers, shuttles, etc.  It would make prestige more valuable.  For instance, why is it that you have to go from starbase to starbase to look at new officers, and then click back and forth on the officer screen to see all the officers that may be at the base?  Shouldn't starfleet have a database of available officers that you could pick from and it would mearly take time to "deliver" them to your ship, ala ships.  This should also be a bidding process.  If Spock or Data were up for grabs, how many captains would be tryin' to pull strings to get them on their ship?  (of course this would have to rely on it being VERY hard for your officers to reach the level of those types of officers, while being competent should be fairly standard)  Now, that would have added a lot in my opinion.  But then again I always felt the officers were halfway done.  Why have them be skilled in multiple areas, when you can't switch them to a new position except at a base that has officers available to trade in and out?

Anyhow, we could go on and on about what could have, should have been.  I will eventually do a write up of what I would have liked to have seen, what I feel should have been, and what I'd like to see in the future.  We now have to figure out just what we can do with what we have been given and hope against hope that it will at least function as it was initially intended and not left in a buggy halfway usable  state ala OP.    

Max zero

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2003, 09:23:55 am »
I know what you mean about officers. It seems everyone ends up with legendary crew eventually.

What I would like to see is some rareity in the higher level officers and have them not all end up the same.

Perhaps we could get special skills such as:

Tactical officers can get extra skilled with a particular type of weapon (phaser, etc). You could also  link weapon use with skill eg if you use phasers a lot you will be accurate with them but your Quantum torpedo skills won't be so flash. Plus you need to keep a skill 'in use' or it deteriorates.

Helm officers get talented with 'hull types' rather then 'general skill'. Sure you may be legendary at piloting a Saber but what good is that going to do when your in a Sovereign?

Security officers are pretty good now. I think they could really develop if they had something more to work with then just 'marines'. Oh well.

Ops officers..well not much you could do here (any ideas?). Maybe they could open up new options for Scan and Hail?

Engineering officers have lots of options. They could learn all sorts of new technology skills like 'alien technology' (more effective against certain races), 'experimental weaponry' (effective but unreliable weapons/shields), etc.

Medical officers...hmmm. Maybe they could learn skills like 'alien physiology' (better boarding attacks and defense), 'bio-weapons' (non-Fed only), etc.

To learn these skills you would need minimum 'stats'. These stats raise through usage. To keep people from farming 'skills' make them raise slowly when in computer missions and faster when against other players.

Just would like some more depth, thats all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Max zero »

Tannhauser

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2003, 10:21:13 am »
1.  You forget that the supply screen also lets you rename your ship.  VERY IMPORTANT FEATURE.  
2.  A server can be set to make shuttles, mines, and marines cost more.  Currently, on the GFL server, mines cost about 40pp each.  This is meant to help cut back a bit on the minelayer ships.
3.  About Legendary crew "special abilities":  Awhile back, I recommended something similar.  Basically, when an officer reachs full legendary status, that officer can get a special ability.  This would allow a bit more customization for ships, making them a little closer to being characters.  However, pretty much only one person responded to the idea, and he thought officers were powerful enough to begin with.    

Aliasalpha

  • Guest
Re: The Supply Screen
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2003, 12:19:36 pm »
I was thinking along the same supply variety lines the other day. I think that antimatter mines for example should be a standard option (though a hell of a lot costlier) and the minelayer heavy weapon should actually give different launching properties.

EG: You can get a minelayer that lets you deploy whilst cloaked, not the MOST useful if you're doing it in front of someone but if they're occupied... Or you could have a minelayer that deploys mines in 3s, 1 behind & 2 on the flanks for a bit of a defensive wall. Warp deployment could be another option but a bit crap. A spray of micro-mines would be cool, less damage individually but a much greater area covered, maybe even impact detonated rather than proximity. Magnetic mines would also be a very attractive concept (geddit? Attractive, magnetic?). Or maybe even an Uber Magnetic Antimatter Mine O' Death for the obsessive minelayers.

I love the idea of marines with specialties. That way you could disable a system with an engineering team. Use demolitions marines to damage the ship, roughly equivelant to a proximity photon impact on an unshielded target. You could have assault & capture marines though these would be a LOT less useful since you can't capture on D3 for some reason.

In a way the officers DO have special abilities when they go legendary, tac officers can chain plasma/photon/quantums (do gravimetric torps chain? Never played borg enough to know). Ops officers seem to detect cloaked ships better, helm officers squeeze better turn rates... I can only speculate that security officers do better boarding actions, medics heal people better or make them more resistant to injury and engineers reduce ship damage. It'd be nice if you could purchase AI ships and promote one of your officers to commanding it.