Topic: I feel like ranting about kitbashes, and nobody can stop me!  (Read 7699 times)

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Turling

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I feel like ranting about kitbashes, and nobody can stop me!
« on: January 31, 2003, 02:36:16 am »
Let me start this off with a BIG FAT [censored] DISCLAIMER, okay?  PLEASE READ!!!
 

     
  • I am not a modeler, and  I have no sketches or designs to show to "prove my credentials".  I'm gonna state my opinion about this sort of thing anyway.
     
  • This post is NOT a veiled insult or comment about anybody's models.  I'm just drinkin' a beer and chillin', and I thought I'd go on at length about my opinion on something, and since I don't feel like one of the usual "War in the Middle East" posts over in the OT forum tonight, I'm gonna post about kitbashing.  Variety is the spice of life, y'know?
     
  • I'm bored, drinking, and not sleepy yet, so this might be long.  Tough.  Besides, what else do you guys expect from me by now?  
     


Now that that's out of the way, lemme get started on my little rant. <Turling cracks knuckles...>


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First off, guys, let me avoid offending the folks who kitbash by saying that I have nothing against it per se, and my SFC shiplist file has kitbash models that others have created.  I'll cite Mackie's ships as being some fine kitbashed designs.  Kitbashing has precedent in Star Trek - the first being, I believe, the Hermes-class Scout, Saladin-class Destroyer and Ptolemy-class Tug.  The Coventry and Surya class ships (I don't know when they originated) seem to be popular designs, and deservedly so; they not only show the TOS origins of the Reliant, they're attractive, functional-looking designs in their own right.  Besides, who doesn't love the Reliant design?

There's even precedence for kitbashing in the real world - what in the world is an F-82 Twin Mustang, if not a kitbash of a P-51 Mustang?

F-82 Mustang (foreground), in formation with a P-51 Mustang (background).
 

I've also heard of a twinned version of the Messerschmitt 323 Gigant, a German WWII transport derived from a huge glider, and I've heard of proposals for twinned versions of the C-5 Galaxy and the 747.  So not everything is a brand-new, from scratch design, of course.  There's no reason why Starfleet couldn't have decided to develop a few new classes of ship  based on the obviously successful Constitution class.

Kitbashing becomes a problem, however, when common sense takes a vacation and the designer either indulges his imagination to such and extent that he ceases to acknowledge considerations of aesthetics, practicality and good design, or else uses mix'n'matching parts instead of imagination.  It's not real tough to take a Constitution class primary hull, create some mostrosity and call it a secondary hull, hang X number of Constitution class warp engines on it, and call it a new ship.  That is, unless you do it right and think about what's going to look right and what isn't.  As I say, some people do it right and others don't.

But there's a limit, right?  The original Constitution heavy cruiser being spun off into a destroyer - the Saladin - was stretching the concept as far as it can go.  But, I've seen designs for battleships, battlecruisers - which are not supposed to be bigger and better cruisers, by the way - light cruisers, destroyers, frigates - which are not troop assault ships, whatever the guys at FASA thought -  carriers and corvettes, all designed using parts from the TOS Constitution design, the TMP Constitution, or else the Excelsior or Galaxy designs.  Wouldn't it look a little absurd to see a gigantic battleship designed with a saucer hull just like the one on the Enterprise being escorted by a few little frigates, which also have that same design of primary hull, except that the battleships' primary hull is about twice as wide as the frigate is from bow to stern?  If the windows on the frigate were proper size, the ones on the battleship would be huge f*ckin' monstrous picture windows.  Silly.

Now that I've gotten that out, don't you want to see just what the hell sparked all that hot air?  Well, take a look at this:

K'ehleyko class Troop Cruiser
 

Need I say more?  Here  is a link to the picture, and  here is a link to the home page at that site.  HUGE numbers of ships on display by a bazillion different people, but you folks sift through those designs and then try and tell me that 95% of the guys designing those things weren't either blind or on crack.  The K'ehleyko stood out as being singularly absurd, but there's no shortage of just plain ugly design to be had.  Some of the things look like the Enterprise got its secondary hull replaced by a huge block of LEGOs stuck together at random.  Yeesh.  

Like I say, I'm not writing this stuff just to bust on somebody's work for cruel thrills - well, maybe a little - but rather for these even better reasons:
 
     
  • I'm bored...
     
  • ...I'm drinking...
     
  • ...and I'm not sleepy yet.  


Much more admirable reasons, right?    

Turling

  • Guest
AND BEFORE ANYBODY STARTS TO THINK I'M REFERRING TO THEIR WORK...
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2003, 02:44:37 am »
...I most definitely am not referring to anybody.  I've seen some stellar kitbashes available for download, and I like them.  I am in awe of the excellent work I've seen on display here, and that includes the kitbashers.  Like I say, I've seen some really cool kitbashes.  I just saw that God-awful Constitution-D7 combo and found myself unable to avoid going on a rant.

If you're thinking I'm ranting about you - any of you - I'm not!  So don't feel insulted!  Trust me, you'll know when I want you to feel insulted!  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Turling »

Khalee

  • Guest
Re: I feel like ranting about kitbashes, and nobody can stop me!
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2003, 03:18:12 am »
I Hate the Reliant, the sfb war cruiser is better.


But that F82 looked pretty cool might have to try my hand at making one.

Any more links to the F82
 

Turling

  • Guest
Re: F82 Twin Mustang
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2003, 03:23:14 am »
Quote:

...that F82 looked pretty cool might have to try my hand at making one.

Any more links to the F82
 




Well,  this page has a number of photographs of Twin Mustangs.  Try a Google search, I found a number of sites that way.  

Khalee

  • Guest
Re: AND BEFORE ANYBODY STARTS TO THINK I'M REFERRING TO THEIR WORK...
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2003, 03:38:47 am »
Thanks been by that museum quite a few times but never went to it. Might have to go some time soon.

Oh and did I mention I HATE THE RELIANT!!!.

Atrahasis

  • Guest
Re: F82 Twin Mustang
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2003, 03:40:20 am »
You're right Turling, that is a very retarded design. In fact I can't think of a worse one I've seen off the top of my head.  

anduril

  • Guest
Re: F82 Twin Mustang
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2003, 05:21:00 am »
The Wright Pat is a cool ass museum and is well worth stopping by.

Stuff like the Peacemaker and the one surviving Valkrie make you go....wow.



SIfting thru all the schematics at that site is something that a lot of people have done.  I usually get the feeling that a lot of mind altering drugs have been taken during ship designing and that place seems to be the outlet of choice of the bulk of the "enhanced engineers"

Bernard Guignard

  • Guest
Re: I feel like ranting about kitbashes, and nobody can stop me!
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2003, 05:47:03 am »
Reminds me of when I went to Toronto Trek one year and one of the Klingon Groups was displaying a model somthing along those lines, except it had the enterprise warp engines and the hull was Ktinga class. I believe it had working lights. The history on the ship was that the Primary hull was from a defeated fed starship the the klingons cobbled to the secondary hull to replace the primary hull that had taken massive damage or so to that effect.
 Interesting to look at but nothing I'd consider seriously . Your Right Turling there's alot material out there that for lack of better wording would not pass muster at starfleet corps of engineers or any other races. You have to go through alot of rocks before you find a few gems.
   Its all subjective to your own personal star trek universe and what you choose to add to it.  
   

CaptainTombs

  • Guest
Re: I feel like ranting about kitbashes, and nobody can stop me!
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2003, 06:05:22 am »
Hmm i dont know what to say except that i also hate the Miranda Class  (there got that out) the way i see kitbashing there can be good ones and there can be downright awful ones, but thats the way of kitbashing you can make a persons model look like a badass starship(ala my NX-1701-F kitbash of the soulwolf) or you can make a really really god awful one shown by turling, what i guess im trying to say is that you can enchance things and you can well denhance things, sometimes they turn out great and then they look alot worst than there original design

starforce2

  • Guest
Re: I feel like ranting about kitbashes, and nobody can stop me!
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2003, 06:12:44 am »
Turling, you'd love the sov bash in armada called the cerberus. It has 3 soverign drive hulls attached to a drasticly oversized soverign saucer and 5 nacelles. one of my favorite armada godships. I had it installed in mellenium project and I could carve up just about any base with just that ship. Good for when I just wanna have fun blowing [censored] up..lol

CaptainTombs

  • Guest
Re: I feel like ranting about kitbashes, and nobody can stop me!
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2003, 08:16:56 am »
ive been meaning to convert that ship i have it as a .3ds file all its needs it the usual stuff hardpointing and so on

Marauth

  • Guest
Re: I feel like ranting about kitbashes, and nobody can stop me!
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2003, 10:47:27 am »
  MY GAWD THAT'S DISGUSTING (yes I'm aware I had capslock on)

Oh and I LOVE the Miranda (not as much as the Connie-R but still)

I've looked at pretty much everything on that site, and I've come up with a simple system when looking - ignore ANYTHING that doesn't say official, or from one of the properly made manuals (like FASA or Jackhills or numerous others which I can't remember) if you stay clear of the internet ones then you'll be okay (for the most part I mean the FASA stuff was pretty lame - I mean the Baker was a destroyer which if scaled to the constitution has a few hundred tons of mass more than the Connie!!!)

Thu11s

  • Guest
And you thought it looked bad in 2D!!!!
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2003, 06:48:49 pm »
Kinda scary huh?!?!




Sat here, not a lot to do and thought, "hey, I know, I'll......" nuts, just deleted the file, nevermind, guess some ships just aren't ment to be

Thu11s

off to wash my PC out with soap after that!  

Atrahasis

  • Guest
Re: And you thought it looked bad in 2D!!!!
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2003, 06:50:02 pm »
Ugh...I lost my lunch.  

Turling

  • Guest
AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2003, 07:08:21 pm »
My EYES!!!!  That burned my RETINAS, dammit!  Sheez, now I'm gonna have to go bleach my eyes out or something...  

Khaliban

  • Guest
Re: AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2003, 10:44:27 pm »
Those designs, though absurd, do serve a purpose.  They are where you begin as a designer.  No one's first work is any good.  Some people may just feel an obligation to contribute.  Yes, many designs are bad now.  Wait a little.  They will improve.  Some of them anyway.  I rebuilt the Odysseus a good twenty times before I had something I liked.  If you see fifty bad designs but one really good design, it's a good day.

And I like the Reliant.

jrstandfast

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Re: I feel like ranting about kitbashes, and nobody can stop me!
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2003, 01:06:07 am »
Long long ago..... after perusing the boards and seeing yet again 20 some Sov types with nacelles stuck all over I made this thing as a commentary on kitbashing, then chickened out and never posted it.  I'm not proud of it but I keep it around.  Many many apologies to Ghost and Fleetdock 13.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by jrstandfast »

Turling

  • Guest
Re: JR's battlewagon...
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2003, 01:50:04 am »
OH...LORD!!!!  That is awesome - in a sick sorta way.  Lemme propse a leetle project for you modeler and kitbasher types:  Try and make the stupidest ships you can think of.  I know that at some point during somebody else's rant about scaling, somebody took a little frigate or PT boat or some such from Ghost's site and scaled it up into a Mega-Battleship that dwarfed dreadnoughts.  That's the kind of thing we need...and ships with 7+ nacelles...ships defined as "assault" this and "tactical" that...ships with planet-killing bazooka guns...and how about an entire family of identical ships, all the way from a tiny little one-man fighter up to a mega-battleship (tactical assault mega-battleship, of course) but they're all identical, just scaled differently...ships assembled from three different empires' vessels...

Think of what a mod that would make!  And the best part is, I don't know how to do any of that stuff, so I wouldn't have to do any work!  The mark of a good plan!    

starforce2

  • Guest
Re: I feel like ranting about kitbashes, and nobody can stop me!
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2003, 01:51:36 am »
Holly [censored]! You should release that! Nmae it "USS Rediculous". I damn near fell off my chair laughing at that thing. It'd be fun to play that. Ship it over to bridge commander too. Everyone needs a little comedy relief now an then anyways... (shoulda entered that in the model contest for fun..lol)  

Thu11s

  • Guest
Re: JR's battlewagon...
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2003, 04:27:09 am »
Quote:

That's the kind of thing we need...and ships with 7+ nacelles...ships defined as "assault" this and "tactical" that...ships with planet-killing bazooka guns...and how about an entire family of identical ships, all the way from a tiny little one-man fighter up to a mega-battleship (tactical assault mega-battleship, of course) but they're all identical, just scaled differently...ships assembled from three different empires' vessels...




To quote the 'Life of Brian' (a quality film if ever there was one!)...

"He's M....mmm...mm.....ma....mm.....MAD, sir!"

This is going to get silly

Thu11s