Topic: Negh'var - D3 (Read 9865 times)

Blitzkrieg · « **on:** January 30, 2003, 09:17:38 am »

Some advice from the wise please, if you would may -

I've just got myself my first DN in SFC3, but I presume it applies to all versions (Negh'var by the way) and as such need some advice using it. Not point and click to kill, but what role can it play? How best to arm it? Whats it going to do compared to other heavy ships?

I dont want to seem a ninny but its taken forever on D3 to get this thing and I dont want to waste the experiance. Ive had plenty of experiance with other ships but this seems a bit different, especialy considering its a big slug of a ship, this poses a problem does it not?

A bewildered yet hopeful,

Blitz

Credo Narth · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2003, 11:09:18 am »

Whatever ship I have (Defiant excepted) I always downgrade the primary weapons. PH XI or equivalent pointing forwards, and Ph X or equivalent out the sides. Poleron/Quatntum torps pointing forwards, but only two of 'em.

This keeps the power requirement down, which allows you to overload your weapons, or overload your shields, whatever you like.

For DNs, I use a Warp IX, a reasonable impulse, and serious thrusters. If you need speed, then warp away, but there's nothing like maneuvrability to spin and get all your weapons firing at the same enemy.

I generally ignore shield upgrades. The extra mass doesn't make up for the protection, imo. But I use good armour, comp and (if Rom or Klink) a good cloak. Minumum 4. Set tractor about 2 or 3, and same with transporters. The exception to this is the Klinks; using a K-5 transporter gives you loads of options for H&R's through a downed shield.

Oh yes, and don't forget the minibar.

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2003, 11:50:53 am »

Cool thanks a lot man I'm going to have to try this out as there is some obvious stratagies that can be formed with it. Currently I ended up with 5 level 4 disrupters going forward plus 2 polarons, with reasonable speed manouverability and soon to be warp X.

The idea behind that being that I can cause massive damage with one pass, use 2/3 HET's to get position for another full alpha. This would hopefuly seriously damage my opponant, however I was quite worried about manouverable ships taking me apart due to my obvious weakness in defence. So I shall be off to give this a try, the light - very heavy gun boat spinaround tactic.

Aenigma · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2003, 12:05:46 pm »

Blitzkrieg, you might want to take a look at the designs posted at SghnDubh's Battleclinic
There are many great designs there.

erei'Arrain Aenigma

Max zero · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2003, 12:17:53 pm »

As a Borg player I would be wary of following the 'less weapon/more power' approach. I many cases the damage lost from higher power usage is made up for in the damage on the new weapon. You could say these weapons also use weight but weapon space is by far the smallest area on every ship so it has a smaller effect then you may think.

Overpowering while nice is not exactly huge. For having double power capaicity you gain a whole 50% damage and shield regen. There are a few things though:

1) To get these low power ratings you have to use lower level primary weapons. These tend to have low ranges and harsh damage/range rates. +50% damage is not much use when your doing 1 or 2 damage a hit at 20 range.

2) You take fewer heavy weapons. To me this is madness. Give me an extra volley firing Quatum/Grav torpedo launcher anyday of the week.

3) The higher warp core mass usually offsets most of the lighter weapon mass.

4) Shield regen is so slow anyway. +50% faster snail speed is still slow.

For the Borg it is especially bad since Borg weapons are extra heavy but fairly energy efficient. I tried you idea on my Sphere Prime and needless to say my ship had so few weapons left that the +50% was worthless.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2003, 01:08:54 pm »

Yeah, that is some of the worst advice I ever heard. Here's why. It takes 200% power to get 50% more damage. Comparing klink dis 2 to dis 4. It takes 4 energy to get 5 damage out of a dis 2. Double that energy to 8 you get, only 7.5 damage. Whereas dis 4, 10 energy for 10 damage. Same kind of scenario for dis 3, eight to charge, 8 damage. Double power to 16, damage is only 12. Overloading is only for extreme cases with primaries as far as I am concerned and is an in-battle adjustment if you need more hitting power at expense of shields. But I think it is always best to put largest primaries on a ship as you get most bang for buck, especially on a DN. Not to mention that range is better on larger primaries and health and loss of damage over that range.

I think for Neghvar max out on disruptor IV's in forward firing arcs, I dont use polarons, dont like them, hit too infrequently. I use k-torp instead. Max out shields, but maybe not warp core. As a DN, you will be the focus of human attacks, so you will need max shields. And from what I have seen speed doesn't get you much in this game, especially with the slug fest mentality in this game. While it's certainly good to be able to turn at a decent rate, trying to keep up with faster ships is not worth the reduction in fire power. I mean they have to stop turning at some point to fire for accurcary, then their AV will even out and you can get off a good shot. Not to mention that you will be going up against races with larger crunch power than you have as a klink. Q torps and plasma all have higher damage capacity than klink heavies. Hell, a light plasma torp can do 11 damage, while the polaron only does 12. In general neghvar can be pretty agile, so I wouldn't worry too much about manueverability.

As for oveloading shields, this only benefits regen rate. That can be easily defeated by anyone who merely keeps shooting all the time to never allow shields to regen effectively or at all. You need some long periods of time to regain shields for what you put into overcharging.

Those are my recommendations. And if you can fit it, put on rear torps. They can be a nice surprise to someone who likes to get behind you. Hope that helps.

Argos65987 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2003, 01:21:46 pm »

Quote:

And if you can fit it, put on rear torps. They can be a nice surprise to someone who likes to get behind you.

I agree. With a less manueverable ship like a DN, taking into account weapon arcs, particulary rear-firing, can really help you to keep banging on the enemy from the less desirable angles you will find yourself put in. Also, having rear firing weapons is nice for a good back-hand after you perform an alpha strike moving fast directly over your opponent.

kevlar · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2003, 02:03:57 pm »

if you are going to mostly face fed ships it is better to get heavy shields- but avoid getting class 10 all around, maybe a shield 10 on front but only there. Avoid the klingon shield class 8, either go with 9's or 7's but simply avoid class 8
( class 7 absorbs 42 damage, class 8 only absorbs 46 and class 9 can stop 52 damage)
Choosing between a 9 or 10 warp core is probably the hardest decision you are going to do, but it is a fundamental one when it comes to design the rest of your equipment. Personally I nornmally go with a warp 9 and a mix of VI and III disruptors , because overcharging shields is not that important since the actual regeneration rate is slow. The advice I give now is don't base the choice of warp core only by the ability to heavly overcharge or not overcharge the shields. Something I learned the hard way on boxing is that against well apllyed raw strength there is no resistance. And one other thing that I learned the hard way, this time on SFC III, is that against multiple AM mines the only thing that can save your officers is having the highest armor available.

Also try to get high capacity disruptors since the q.torps on proximity actually give feds considerable power in distance fights. Unlike other persons I always have my primary weapons almost fully overloaded, specially if I am a klingon with fast firing disruptors, and then overlaod the heavy weapons only when I almost ready to fire then ( something that is easier when using polarons) You are going to use disruptors a lot more times than any other weapon so it is better to do real damage when using the thing. You don't need to have disruptors IV coming from every hardpoint but also don't start equiping low primary weapons on a DN or you'll end outgunned and outpowered , a deadly combination.

K-photons do have advantages over polarons in most situations, but not on DN versus DN encounters when, many times, the ships are considerably close and AV isn't very high.I favor the polarons on a DN. If you use polarons avoid firing them at distances higher than 15 .

the battleclinic contains different views on equipment and is a good place to visit. I have tried some of the configurations and found that many don't work that well on some servers while they can rule on other servers. Try to known the server where you play and the most frequent kind of enemy you are going to face. If everyone is overloading their weapons to the maximum, really don't pay much attention to speed and turn ratios and favour close fights, SFC III in it's actual moment don't give many other options than going with that tide if you aren't a fed Hopefully , after the patch, non proximity torpedos will hit considerably more and then having big klingon ships with great speed and turn rate might be advised, but at the current time , feds can sabre dance better than klingons if they want.

.

Azrael · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2003, 02:05:21 pm »

Well Done.

You're now piloting one of the finest ships in the game.

My advice would be to make the most of your ability to put a hole through anything.

Disruptor IVF's on everything that fires forward. Nobody's going to want to face you head on. Your disruptors are powerful, even from range and recharge quickly.

Polaron Torpedoes for your two forward mounts. It's been my experience that when you are targeting an enemies "sub systems", it's the Polarons that actually strike the specific system alot harder and faster than your disruptors.

Two rear mounts. Leave one empty and have an AM mine as the other. Coupled with a Tractor V, nobody's going to want to get too close to you, or you can make them pay.

Armour V, Tractor V, and Shield 10 all the way around as soon as you can afford it.

I've asked people's opinions about impulse v.s. warp, and eveyone I spoke to told me to go for the Warp X.

I disagree. Go for Warp IX, and stuff the largest impulse engine you can in the thing while still holding maneuverable thrusters.

The increased speed is essential for putting yourself in full reverse to drag enemies over your AM mines quickly.

I'm not saying this outfit is perfect. It's great for being a big ass cannon that can punch a hole in anything.

Watch out for super fast small ships that will try and get behind you and drop an AM mine. Watch out for ships that are fitted exclusively with AM mines for their hardpoints. All it takes is a little lag to free them from your tractor.

All in all, I think this is an excellent set up to make you a serious threat.

Finally, keep an eye on your hull meter. You blow up faster than you think in any ship.

Finally, avoid warping into planets and asteroids, cause, that just sucks.

Azrael

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2003, 04:58:23 pm »

Well thanks guys this has given me lots of great ideas, Ive been trying these out in single player skirmish and they all appear to have there merrits. I have to like the idea of being able to "blow a hole through anything" though more than anything else.

One interesting configuruation that just helped me take out a human Nebula without taking any shield loss at all.

3 forward and 2 back IV disrupters
Ion cannon forward and 2 back
Tachyon pulse forward

The rest was fairly standard manouverability and speed, I didnt have any level 8 shields though.

Now the guy seemed to be able to warp after I hit him with the tachyon pulse when he had shields up, I take it thats normal (first time trying the weapon). However he sure as hell cant warp after its been hit against his hull, i tore a hole through forward then backward shields, leaving him easily open to attack. As he couldnt warp away I took out his engines next, ensuring he stayed where I wanted him while my rather nice ship circuled with an almost constant rate of heavy fire on him.

This engagment lasted no more than 2 minutes before I said "gg", I was going to let him go but he was a bit too damaged and a shuttle got him lol.

Anyway I know how Im going to be refited now, I agree with the warp IX as with X you cant manouver much.

Thanks again guys,

Blitz

Azrael · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2003, 02:08:23 pm »

Disruptor IVF's definately worth it.

Basically it's the quick refire rate. It might not be a huge advantage over the IIIF's but it's still an advantage.

The Negh'var has the mass for it, but keep in mind that this particular set-up I'm reccomending is for a forward firing ship.

A big cannon.

You don't really want to be letting people get behind you, that's why rather than taking advantage of the 2 rear firing hardpoints, I recommend one AM mine, which you use in a forward firing manner, in conjunction with your tractor; i.e. mine drag.

Not even a conventionally outfitted Sovereign or Sphere Prime is going to want to go toe to toe with you in a slugfest if you're all fully loaded.

That being said, Robb Stark's pointed out how little firepower you sacrifice if you want to equip yourself to be more Melee oriented than Frontal Assault.

Azrael

Blitzkrieg · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2003, 05:40:11 pm »

With that principle in mind I have 5 forward firing level IV dizzies with 2 P-torps, the AMML at the back and a tachyon pulse which I turn off when fighting AI. I honestly cant imagine anything better after considering the options.

kevlar · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2003, 07:19:54 pm »

neat tactic ,, but aren't you forgeting just one tiny little thing .. .he can also cloak and do almost the same thing to you

kevlar · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2003, 08:44:41 pm »

that is what makes rom vs kling fights a little boring for me..since i do exactly what you say and most of the times it ends as a draw..

Neverthless, just to left clear one point, your tactic works very well against non cloaking ships. I know, cause in the few times that i fly romulan , it is precisely what I do and I even use the same ship ( raptor).

News:

Topic: Negh'var - D3 (Read 9865 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Blitzkrieg

Credo Narth

Blitzkrieg

Aenigma

Max zero

Lepton1

Argos65987

kevlar

Azrael

kevlar

Blitzkrieg

Robb Stark

Azrael

Blitzkrieg

LongTooth

kevlar

LongTooth

kevlar

Aenigma

LongTooth

Topic: Negh'var - D3 (Read 9865 times)