Topic: How to Fix OP D2: Radical Ideas Welcomed (Read 18811 times)

Julin Eurthyr · « **Reply #40 on:** January 31, 2003, 10:01:57 pm »

Okay. From memory of so long ago & from single-player experience:

Since "OP" was supposed to be about the pirates, I've noticed the pirate map works perfectly, other than the fact that the Don's just don't want us to know how strong our territory is...

Now, for the empires, it's a different story...

Empire & Allied Cartel: hex strength increses on empire map
Empire on Cartel Neutral hex: Empire strength decreases
Empire on Enemy Cartel hex: Empire strength decreases

For some reason, It feels to me that somehow the empire / cartel distinction got reversed. IE, a cartel can't operate in "enemy" space. They flourish in allied space, and for some odd reason just are a mess in neutral space. Perhaps a server where someone renames everything (has the empires flying in the pirate slots and the pirates in the empire spots) could potentially fix most of the DV issues (outside of neutral space issues).

Just this time High Command doesn't want the fleet to know just how tenuous their hold on the front lines really is...

Scipio_66 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 31, 2003, 10:11:38 pm »

Quote:

For some reason, It feels to me that somehow the empire / cartel distinction got reversed. IE, a cartel can't operate in "enemy" space. They flourish in allied space, and for some odd reason just are a mess in neutral space. Perhaps a server where someone renames everything (has the empires flying in the pirate slots and the pirates in the empire spots) could potentially fix most of the DV issues (outside of neutral space issues).

Just this time High Command doesn't want the fleet to know just how tenuous their hold on the front lines really is...

<blink> <blink>

Sayyyyy...... that's not half bad.

-S'Cipio

Cleaven · « **Reply #42 on:** January 31, 2003, 10:12:13 pm »

Of course the really wierd thing about OP-D2 is that each empires success is based on the assistance of the pirates working in their territory, and a reasonable assumption is that success of the (or any for that matter) underlying cartel would be bad for the empire. Ideally an empire would be aiming for their space to be cartel neutral, and an enemy empire's space to be infested with cartel influence. I also wonder about how the system should have worked when an empire hex was attacked by another empire and there was a cartel presence. Would the cartel serve as a help or hindrance to the attacker?

The way I see it the OP-D2 should be patched so that the cartel map can be set to all neutral and then the empire map will bahave as in EAW, with the exception that co-op in neutral problem should be fixed too. Also empire players attacks should act to reduce cartel DV's towards zero in addition to shifting empire DV's. And once the cartel hex is neutral further attacks from any empire will serve to raise the DV on the cartel hex making it harder for the cartel to retake it.

Cartel attacks should reduce empire DV's as well as raise their own DV. Cartel attacks should also serve to raise DV's in neutral hexes on the empire map making it harder for the empires to retake. Probably some sort of economy effect as proposed by Scipio should be in play as well. In this way cartels are enemies to all empires

This is a basic outline of how the OP-D2 should work but is complicated slightly by the presence in OP of the Wynn and LDR who really should be pirates (in my scheme of things). I think half the pirates should be deleted and the Wynn and LDR should be added.

Of course this is just my opinion on how the OP-D2 should have been. I don't know what will be possible to do with it now, but at least making it similar in operation to EAW should be possible in a patch.

Cleaven · « **Reply #44 on:** January 31, 2003, 10:36:16 pm »

Does that "job" include in some way getting a quick patch done on the OP-D2 so that we can see the Cartel map DV.

Just that one little thing would go a long, long way.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #45 on:** February 01, 2003, 10:36:40 am »

Exactly. If you can't see your DV (cartel DV), but only the empire one, it is almost impossible to determine the health of your hexes. Just ask any pirate player who ever tried to expand their territory -- you just keep attacking hexes until something flips, never knowing if your missions are working. News helps, but you still don't know what the hex's history is.

Cleaven · « **Reply #46 on:** February 02, 2003, 08:08:24 pm »

So then, who does one talk to about the little DV display job? Can it be added into the next patch or does it have to wait for the D2 patch?

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #47 on:** February 02, 2003, 08:14:34 pm »

Two guess, the first one doesn't count.

I guess we could ask though.

Cleaven · « **Reply #49 on:** February 09, 2003, 12:02:49 am »

A little piece of good news, maybe.

http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=16825&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=2&fpart=1

jdmckinney · « **Reply #50 on:** February 09, 2003, 06:26:54 am »

Pardon me if I don't hold my breath. While it's nice that OP is getting ports from EAW and some OP-only fixes the code needs, the D2 is still in limbo. Last I heard, Artic hasn't really done anything with it (if one is volunteering free time, but has none, it amounts to...). Furthermore, it's been a year since OP D2 was promised a patch. I've learned to believe it when I see it, so to speak.

That's why Dave W's script work seems more promising to me than anything Taldren or Artic might do, simply because I see real progress from "Evil" Dave.

Cleaven · « **Reply #51 on:** February 09, 2003, 07:07:13 am »

I guess I'll just have to live in hope then, but at least being able to see the Cartel DV would be a help.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #53 on:** February 09, 2003, 09:20:21 am »

Diz, thanks for your ever-so-helpful and late-in-coming wisdom.

Seriously, I don't want to do an uber-mod for EAW. I want OP D2 to work. If it can't be done by regression (making it work essentially like EAW with more races and using the OP tactical engine), then there are other avenues. Dave W's scripts might fix some of the map problems. Who knows -- maybe Artic will actually fix the whole thing.

Anyway, we have plenty of people who have given up on OP. It has always been a bastard child, made even more so by Taldren's shallow promises to fix it. I still think it can be better than EAW, giving us more options. I haven't given up yet.

As far as GSA play is concerned, I seem to remember a somewhat recent thought put forward that EAW would be the D2 game, OP the GSA game. If that's the intent from Taldren, it is pretty funny considering how few people play OP in GSA. Of course, the ever-present X-ship complaints will come out when people give their reasons for not playing OP via GSA, but we all know that people don't need to use Xes.

There will always be those who slam OP, for whatever reasons. Some are valid, some are BS. I don't ask people to play it if they don't want to, but I do think those who want to play it might be able to come up with new approaches to making it work.

Kid Carrson · « **Reply #54 on:** February 09, 2003, 09:50:09 am »

A one level SFC OP D2 map where all 16 races operate is the way to go! It would provide so many choices and options for the modding community!

Forget the current two tiered approach. Just bury it!

Great thread!

KC

Corbomite · « **Reply #56 on:** February 09, 2003, 11:05:59 am »

Dizzy why do you always have to piss in people's soup? OP is being worked on and the first of at least two patches towards that is slated to be released soon. Why go through all the trouble of reprogramming EAW into OP when OP is already done? Oh and BTW, learn how the spell "whether" will you?

IndyShark · « **Reply #57 on:** February 09, 2003, 11:23:39 am »

I believe the biggest problem with OP is D2. Since EAW D2 seems to work well, why don't we mod the ships and weapons from OP into EAW? I know several things won't make it (like the correct disruptor arcs), but it would seem to be easier to use EAW rather than OP if the OP D2 is not going to be fixed (anytime soon at least).

What do you guys think?

FireSoul · « **Reply #58 on:** February 09, 2003, 11:33:35 am »

.. I'd like to voice in.

It's too soon to declare SFC:OP dead...
.. of course, if that means that I have to __force__ people to using OP by not doing any work towards SFC:EAW, so be it.

-- Luc

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Topic: How to Fix OP D2: Radical Ideas Welcomed (Read 18811 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Julin Eurthyr

Scipio_66

Cleaven

NuclearWessels

Cleaven

jdmckinney

Cleaven

EmeraldEdge

Herr Burt

Cleaven

jdmckinney

Cleaven

Dizzy

jdmckinney

Kid Carrson

Dizzy

Corbomite

IndyShark

FireSoul

Dizzy

Topic: How to Fix OP D2: Radical Ideas Welcomed (Read 18811 times)