Topic: Die Hard Re-banned (Read 71486 times)

SSCF Hooch · « **Reply #380 on:** February 04, 2003, 09:53:33 pm »

Quote:

Hmm I hold a similiar position Hooch. I see that I have been here (assuming this is your only name here) not quite 2 years longer than you. I guess I am not qualified to have an opinion either .

Fact 1 - They screwed up

Fact 2 - I have never once seen any statement that re-instatement was ever an option for anyone. Taldren has never said that you CAN be re-instated (yes I know it is possible) so they obviously are not willing to do this. That IS their perrogative.

Fact 3 - Nothing is stopping them from posting with a new name.

Fact - Ok not a fact, but, If I were Taldren I sure and Heck would not unban anyone because a few (yes few less than 10 seem to have not let this go) people won't let it drop. For if I did it sends a message that the rules only apply to those who aren't willing to apologize and/or don't have a bunch of friends look out for them.

They are banned. So what?!? Tell them to play nice, grab a new name, and join in the fun. Or you can just keep on screaming and waste valuable bandwidth.

GE-Raven

Sorry, one of the principles on this board likes scripture, well I went to a Bible College as well. Here is one for you.

"How many times shall I forgive a man Lord, seven times? I say to you seventy times seven..."

One more for the road

"No greater love hath a man that he should lay down his life for his friends"

Well bud...these are my friends. So if you don't like my posts then don't read'em, it is a public board YOU are free to do as you wish.

Hooch

SSCF Hooch · « **Reply #386 on:** February 04, 2003, 10:23:08 pm »

Oh, I forgot to say thank you for shooting back. It keeps this post right near the top where I prefer it to be.

Your lack of compassion is interesting to me. Have you never had a friend make a terrible mis-step and paid for it for ever? I think they should allow these folks another chance. If they blow it then shame on them for being dumb enough to look a gift horse in the mouth. But I should like to see them get just one more chance.

Now please post back, I am shooting for three thousand views by Sunday.

Again thanks

Hooch

DrSchreber · « **Reply #387 on:** February 04, 2003, 11:08:21 pm »

To All,

Greetings.

I think that after reading this never to die topic that I would like to place myself in hot water here.

First, I presume that I am allowed my opinion. That my opinion might be correct or incorrect, and that I will not be punished for expressing my opinion.

Second, I presume I am allowed to gripe, complain and nag at the creators of a product I have purchased. Now, I agree that it would be PREFERABLE for me to do so in a civilized and respectful manner, but that it is not manditory. I am, after all, the customer who paid for the product. I am, after all, one of many such customers who put food on the table of each and every employee who helped create the product I purchased, a product I expected to operate under the parameters that it was sold to me with.

If you agree with the first two presumptions I have made, then we can look at these forums as a place to compliment and congratulate the folks who made our game SFC3 what it is today. Given that, the forums are also a place to share ideas, have questions answered, and gripe about those facets of our game that have yet to function properly.

That is what I believe the folks who have been banned were in the process of doing.

Now, regarding the forum operation itself, I hope we can all agree that whatever rules are in place they should apply equally to all persons irregardless of ethnic background, religion or whatever. I also think it should apply to the content of what is said, be it positive or negative. It doesn't seem to me, in my opinion, that the banning of these chaps is being applied in a neutral and unbiased fashion. Just an opinion.........

Several point have been raised in this particular thread (or whatever you call it) that I would like to address. Please note that I am NOT quoting any single individual here, just ideas that I have gleaned from reading this.

#1) "How long someone has played." I don't give a damn whether someone has been playing for two minutes or twenty years! They bought the same game we all did and are certainly entitled to air their opinion without being put down for the duration of how long they have owned it! Who knows, the new guys may actually have some new takes that some of the old fuddy-duddies have overlooked.

#2) "This is owned/run by Taldren and they can do what they want." This I do mostly agree with, but not entirely. Here is why. Taldren wouldn't own/run this forum or any of the urinals in their office building without all of us paying for it. It is the money we spent that pays for this forum along with everything else they have or own. Not a single soul there endowed Taldren with Uncle Joey's inheritance to buy diddly with. It is by our good graces that and continued support that any of this exists at all, remember that. This just isn't Taldren by the way, it is every single company each and every one of us does business with!

#3) "Other games need patches too, we shouldn't complain." In a nutshell I don't give a damn what other companies do, I only care what the company I purchase from does! If the industry standard sucks, does that mean I shouldn't expect the company I pay good money to "to rise above the suckiness and excel where others have lagged behind". This is a PATHETIC defense of Taldren or any other company for that matter! When I purchase a product I expect it to be fully, completely 100% functional! Realize that if all of us complained as loudly and vehemently as the "Taldren Three" did, then perhaps we would have much fewer lousy products out there. Call me silly, call me strange, say I'm not living in the real world, but that's just the way I am.

#4) "Taldren has made their decision and they don't have to respond." This may be correct, here. However, for a company to not respond to the legitimate concerns of it's patrons is, in a word, stupid. Any intelligent company will bend over backwards to at least try to smooth over ALL gripes its patrons have. And in this case, where the unbanning of chaps costs not one penny, (or pence for you chaps in Brtitany) and yet would make many folks content, well......

Please forgive my rambling. I tend to drift from topic to topic as the mood hits me.

One final note. An idea for those who TRULY wish answers and are willing to spend postage on it. Find out where Taldrens home office is, and file a complaint regarding this matter with their Better Business Bureau. If you truly believe that you or others have been wronged then move to the next level of complaining and do it where they can't just ignore it. Where they are compelled by basic business practices to respond. I am certain that there are other organizations where the same results could be found, but the BBB is the first that comes to mind with me. They are a business after all, and not just on line but in the real world.

Respectfully,

DrSchreber

PS - I do enjoy the game, but I also look forward to the patch.

SSCF Hooch · « **Reply #388 on:** February 04, 2003, 11:19:27 pm »

Very well said Doctor. (you must be British, I feel like I have been corrected well, harshly, but ever so nicely)

Hooch

J'inn · « **Reply #389 on:** February 04, 2003, 11:33:12 pm »

Actually Hoochie looks like the good doctor is in Indiana. He's one of <shudder> you.

KAT J'inn the soon to be banned from the Midwest.

KATChuutRitt · « **Reply #391 on:** February 05, 2003, 12:05:30 am »

Well I did send a polite PM to David Ferrel about this, and I did tell him if he didn't like my petition that I would not take it personally if he did ban me.

That said,

I know why all 3 were banned

Likkerpig had a brief lapse of language, he quickly apoligized ....does a brief laspse merit a lifetime ban?

Die Hard had a similar lapse, but did not apologize so promptly (understatement), likely because he saw how little good it had done Likkerpig. Anyhow after the forum transfer, he behaved himself perfectly but was rebanned. If this had not happened I'm convinced that he would have watched his P's and Q's

Max Power merely made the mistake of critizing the programming of the game, and although a little rude did not deserve banning by any means. He promply apoligized multiple times and was ignored. Guess how many people are now making the same basic criticisms of the game on the forums now, boy hard to count the threads much less the posted criticisms. Why was he banned, timing! He caught the Taldren boys on their bad day, a day like Likkerpig and Die Hard had that got them banned. So if they can have one why cant a long term community member? Or have we heard nothing from them because they banned themselves in the name of equality? I think not.

It is their forums, granted. Just like you live on state property. If your state starts taking away your civil liberties would you complain? Would others that didn't know you well (my position here, I know the 3 but not so well) stand up for them to protect their own rights, well some would and others would turn a blind eye. Guess what? My vision is quite clear.

My 2cents

I'll turn blue with you Hooch

KATChuut-Ritt
Proud to be turning Blue with eyes open

Stormbringer · « **Reply #392 on:** February 05, 2003, 12:10:44 am »

That is absolutely correct. THe BBB is an avenue that is much harder for a business entity to ignore or dismiss. Unlike a forum, where the fox is guarding the chicken house so to speak, The BBB cannot be banned, censored or otherwise rendered ineffective by fiat. If they find the complaint legitimate, especially if there is more than one enquiry, they will be able to apply economic, or even judicial pressure as warranted. If the company will not accede to consumer concerns that may be the route to go.

Whilst I am not saying the BBB will intercede in regard to the banned people's issue, as a side issue it will probably be effected. The company does appear to have a history of premature release in the SFC series of products as well as an attitude of condesending or disregarding negative customer feedback or concerns as far as the forums go. While what started it may have been a few disruptive consumers with an axe to grind, it does not excuse what appears to be a blanket policy of disregard for "troublesome" forum members. I say appears, because sometimes apperances and perceptions can be at odds with reality. It is possible that the perception within the company is legitimately different than those of outsiders.

This does not abrogate the business axiom of customer relations: actions and even perceptions have economic consequences for a company's customer base or market share. So, if you feel strongly enough about the real issues, product quality and customer relations then the most effective avenue short of boycott is organisations such as the BBB or articles online or in computer magazines about the companies consumer relations.

However, consider that too much negative attention could cause the best source of the star trek lore based simulations to move on to other genres. I am not certain such actions as negative press and BBB complaints are warranted at this time.
I posted this to confirm that it appears consumer views of public relations problems are legitimate to both sides of the issue.
Consumers have more effective venues to make thier complaints heard if ignored here. Perhaps _both_ sides need to re-evaluate there current course of action or policies as the case may be.

Consumers: Posting complaints here _appears_ to be useless.

Company: (1) Other more more effective complaint channels or actions are available to your customers, ones that could be economically damaging to the company. (2) Consumer perception is as important as reality in consumer relations and currently you have an image problem that has dogged you from the SFC era up 'til the present in this regard. (3) A gesture can go a long way in consumer relations.

I think that some of the people banned have made positive contribution (think: value added) to the game in the past, models or other contribution that kept demand alive and increased the bottom line even. It does not make sense to keep those peopel banned, in thier cases it is like shooting yourself in the foot. Others that have not so contributed might do so in the future if given half a chance, perhaps evangelising the product to friends and net contacts or contributing value added content such as models, scripts, Mod campaigns. I am not as emotional about it as some in the forum but see that it is a serious issue for many here. The thing is, for every gad fly posting complaints about it there are many more, like myself that do not normally post (complaints). This does not mean thier perception of the situation is all rosy; just that they see no point in posting about it. Thier perceptions still color thier decisions about future products, though.

LongTooth · « **Reply #394 on:** February 05, 2003, 02:02:17 am »

Bump
There is a lot more than 10 names on the list go to the old fourm and look this thread up
No need to tell us that taldren will not reply to us (why do you think they have modaraters for:D)
But this topic is staying on page one and there does seem to be more for than aganst

Erik once posted after don was banned that if he made a new handle behaved himself and no one knew that it was him
he could come back

These 3 would be knowen stright off if they posted under another name and so would be banned again(3th time for 2 of them)

LongTooth · « **Reply #395 on:** February 05, 2003, 02:19:30 am »

Just one more thing maybe there should be a clear list of rules so user's know what they can or can not get introuble for
Also I think its fair to give a warrning to people who are out of line

Pirate · « **Reply #396 on:** February 05, 2003, 06:17:26 am »

Big bump from a KIWI not one of those ockers over the ditch from here

News:

Topic: Die Hard Re-banned (Read 71486 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

SSCF Hooch

SSCF Hooch

Aldaron

Aldaron

SSCF Hooch

Aldaron

SSCF Hooch

DrSchreber

SSCF Hooch

J'inn

ChrsLWlstr

KATChuutRitt

Stormbringer

DrSchreber

LongTooth

LongTooth

Pirate

SSCF Hooch

KATChuutRitt

Alidar Jarok

Topic: Die Hard Re-banned (Read 71486 times)